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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 00:43   #1
Secret
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Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

As a reader of this post, you are probably involved in some way with the Planetarion community. Planetarion is evolving, things are changing and the community must stay informed.

Introducing jolt

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeus
As many of you know, the infamous gaming company Jolt now control the Planetarion game. Jolt, will handle all management of finances, payments marketing, etc and intend to seriously develop the game and community.
Who are jolt?
They an independent online gaming network. The services they offer include:
  • ISP Services (Leased Line, ADSL and Dialup)
  • Gaming Tournaments (For 20+ Games)
  • Dedicated and Public Gaming Servers (Numbering over 800)

Who runs jolt?

How many full time employees do you think it would take to run a large scale operation such as jolt? Perhaps 20, or even more?

They run it with 4 paid members of staff, and they are expected to:
  • Manage 800 dedicated servers
  • Run an ISP
  • Organise Tournaments

These are the major tasks they have to struggle with. They also have to administrate the forums and website along with numerous other smaller errands.

Problems with jolt?

Put modestly, jolt is understaffed and now has the extra responsibility of Planetarion. Supporting Planetarion will seem like an inconvenience when they have too few staff to deal with the current provision of their services.

The services currently provided by jolt are profit making. The potential problem here is that Planetarion will be a low priority in relation
to existing services. Jolt need to be very careful.

Changes?

Things cannot be expected to remain the same; reliable sources will give you an insight to some possible changes.

Our Forums

After heated opposition to the amalgamation of Planetarion and jolt forums, it looks like the community won't have to share our lovely home with DF3.

This is good news, but our future is not certain. Senior members of the Planetarion team have brought three propositions forward.

1. Wiping of forums of all posts and users, requiring everyone to signup again. This would allow the forums to be reorganised, restructured and freshened up. It would be inconvenient, but not destructive to the community.

2. A shared set of rules or guidelines for the Planetarion forums and the jolt forums. Most of you have experienced the jolt forums; a joint set of rules could see our forums degrade to an appalling level. I think most users would like to see the Planetarion and jolt forums isolated from each other.

3. Forum accounts linked to in-game accounts. This idea seems to be supported by those who influence decisions in Planetarion, notably Zeus. This would be an extremely disappointing move. It would mean that users would essentially have to pay for an account. We would see a reset of forums users each round, unless a lifetime account was setup when an in-game account was created, something that would be a logistical nightmare. It looks like Zeus wants to get rid of the old community and start with something new.

The Game

The next round of Planetarion, known to some as round 9, or others as round 8b will be exactly the same as round 8/8a. No development work has been done since the start of the last round.

See Jolt/PA - Paid Round - My 2 cents... by DarkJedi for discussion on this issue.

A few things that we need to think about are:

1. Everyone who played the last round is well aware that it was the worst round ever, as the dropping user base has helped to indicate. To conduct another round based on the same code and stats is naive and insulting to the community. Some people have spent more time on their alliance websites than has been spent on the continued development of Planetarion.

2. People paid for a service last round, and the round was never completed. They deserve a refund or free account this coming round.

3. Development will apparently commence with the new round, but Planetarion now only has one accomplished programmer on their team. The proficient beta testers that have been kind enough to spend their time helping Planetarion have lost faith. Zeus has some stats up his sleeve that he'd like to see implemented, hopefully they are better than his spelling skills.

The Price

So we have an old version of Planetarion that needs desperate redevelopment before a new round starts, but the new owners are going to push ahead anyway?

According to our cost appraisals and information given by the former creators, Investment of approximately £10,000 needs to be taken to cover the costs of servers, software and connectivity to run Planetarion for a round. However, once this initial investment is made the servers, software etc. can be used in future rounds.

If Planetarion kept its user base at around the 6000 mark, then to break even then each account will cost approximately £1.66. But Planetarion claims it needs to charge over five times this amount to stay out of trouble. We aren’t talking megabucks here, but the value of what you get for your payment is hardly appealing.

Think about this:

1. With the purchase of a planet, you get to post on the Planetarion forums (If proposals are implemented). A lot of the forum regulars will never play the game again but still like posting there, what do you think they are going to do? Buy a planet so they can post on the forum, only to have to buy another planet in a month’s time when the round ends early? Or spend it on a lifetime membership to SomethingAwful's forums?

2. MMORPG are where it's at now! The appeal of smaller multiplayer games like Planetarion is in decline, especially when you consider the cost of games like Eve Online and the forthcoming Star Wars Galaxies which will be in the same price bracket than Planetarion.

3. We cannot forget to mention **********. A game written by an old Planetarion player in less time than it took to play a round, which currently has an even larger player base than Planetarion and is free. It has a thriving community, making it a promising alternative to Planetarion.

Summary

Planetarion is past it, technologically, socially and economically. The creators’ despise the people that make up the community and often those who volunteer their free time to help. The game engine is fundamentally flawed. The owners probably don’t have the resilience to run it properly and unless something drastic happens, doesn’t appear to be a viable product for anyone to sell.

This post is to provoke debate; the community needs to do something.
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 01:56   #2
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you are fay.
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 02:04   #3
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Well, you can sit here posting on the forums about it, or you can start writing emails and organizing people.

I know what I've chosen, what will you do?
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 02:13   #4
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Re: Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret
[b]It looks like Zeus wants to get rid of the old community and start with something new.
I'm having a hard time seeing how this is a bad thing
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 03:10   #5
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How come you're not posting this with your real boards account?
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 03:22   #6
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Re: Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret
Introducing jolt
... info about jolt
For all we know you could have made up all that as you wrote. Posting incognito has disadvantages.
Quote:
Our Forums
...
the future of the forums is not certain ...
I find it hard to believe they would do something that would kill off the game entirely.
Quote:
The Game
The next round of Planetarion, known to some as round 9 ... will be exactly the same as round 8 ...
...
Zeus has some stats up his sleeve that he'd like to see implemented...
How does that work out?
Quote:
The Price
...
According to our cost appraisals and information given by the former creators, Investment of approximately £10,000 needs to be taken to cover the costs of servers, software and connectivity to run Planetarion for a round. However, once this initial investment is made the servers, software etc. can be used in future rounds.

If Planetarion kept its user base at around the 6000 mark, then to break even then each account will cost approximately £1.66. But Planetarion claims it needs to charge over five times this amount to stay out of trouble ...[/b]
Maybe the big fat pipe has something to do with it?
Quote:
Originally posted on Announcements
Bandwidth:
5-6mbits (peak time) serving approx 1 Million pages per day
Peak info for busiest day: 21.420.353 kb, 1.824.117 pages
For October, we pushed 525GB of data over the internet link, 38Mill pages, 87Mill hits. 194.316 unique IP addresses accessed us.
Taking into account the cost of the pipe, the whole thing seems to make a loss rather than a gain.
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 04:08   #7
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Interesting post, picked up the link in the PA Team irc channel. A lot of points are made, some of them are very interesting, and a lot of them I can't comment on :-).

As for Jolt, it makes sense to host it on a shared pipe. Buying in bulk is cheaper, so they get more bandwidth per buck than 5s could do alone, plus bandwith is expensive in Norway.

About the game being past it's prime and focus on mmorpgs. Well, as far as I can see T4C, Ultima Ònline and Anarchy Online existed while PA did. I played a lot of T4C (The 4th Coming) in between PA ticks. That's the beauty of PA, you don't have to be logged on to play, you don't have to spend hours leveling on boring creatures. I wasn't the most hardcore of the players around, I spent far too much time on radio, manual and beta and of course programming :-)

PA worked fine for me, and I reckon it will do pretty well nowadays too. As for the betatesters having lost faith, I can personally say this isn't really correct. I am on the beta crew, and as far as I understood Petru (in charge of beta team) he wouldn't quite give up himself either... As for other testers, i haven't talked to many, but people STILL show up in beta-channel, especially the ops.

As for forum accounts being a part of the game this is more to make it easier to handle, and even though I haven't heard anything about it I would like there to be a new account for each round, and the ability to keep the old one as well. "Guest" accounts would be a nice way to let non-playing people on as well, haven't thought much about it, not a forum guy. Edit the "title" really.

Just my 2 cents ;-)
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 10:36   #8
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Re: Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret
Everyone who played the last round is well aware that it was the worst round ever
ive played 6 rounds and i never knew that
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 11:01   #9
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Re: Re: Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

Quote:
Originally posted by Spoonman
ive played 6 rounds and i never knew that
Me either and I've played all but number one.

Nice to post total drivel anonymously and think anyone short of the brain damaged will actually give it some creedence.

But then maybe the secret poster is a brain damaged
Quote:
Originally posted by Secret

"This post is to provoke debate; the community needs to do something."
LMAO its a flame of PA, the creators, the PA community, and jolt.

Theres a flame forum for lamers like you over on the jolt forums.

In fact I wouldn't be suprised if you are one of the DF3 idiots we're hearing so much about.

The community is already making its thoughts known.
Jolt owns PA, they payed a fair amount of money for it.
No one believes they are going to let it die...except maybe you?
They have plenty of servers to run it on.

Get a life. :xmas:
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 12:26   #10
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hmm

I disagree :/ I think it was a post worth making even if it was a bit of a troll, it does touch on a lot of good points. But the market for games like Planetarion and Nukezone (the list goes on) is certainly not shrinking and with Jolt behind Planetarion i think it has a huge chance now.


I would really like my payment to guarantee me some input into the development cycle i think lots of people would be interested in that, like in the old days where people use to PM Spinner on IRC or even via planetarion i seem to remember
I realise 1 to 1 attention for all subscriptions is impossible but perhaps a restricted board on this forum for members which the creators can read when they get 5 minutes.
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 12:36   #11
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Re: Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret
Our Forums - ahem.. they aren't yours

After heated opposition to the amalgamation of Planetarion and jolt forums, it looks like the community won't have to share our lovely home with DF3. - dunnoa where you got this from.. as they never had the plan of amalgamating them UNTIL you lot started fighting with them

This is good news, but our future is not certain. Senior members of the Planetarion team have brought three propositions forward.
intrigued where you got the inaccurate information from
1. Wiping of forums of all posts and users, requiring everyone to signup again. This would allow the forums to be reorganised, restructured and freshened up. It would be inconvenient, but not destructive to the community. this has been discussed alot in the past, but is not seen as a viable option with VB3 so near to coming out

2. A shared set of rules or guidelines for the Planetarion forums and the jolt forums. Most of you have experienced the jolt forums; a joint set of rules could see our forums degrade to an appalling level. I think most users would like to see the Planetarion and jolt forums isolated from each other.
I see you got hold of the mods meeting log.. well i reply to this by saying um.. no
Jolt have told us to run our forums as we wish
jolt and PA are seperate and they want it to stay like that so that we don't alienante their communities


3. Forum accounts linked to in-game accounts. This idea seems to be supported by those who influence decisions in Planetarion, notably Zeus. This would be an extremely disappointing move. It would mean that users would essentially have to pay for an account. We would see a reset of forums users each round, unless a lifetime account was setup when an in-game account was created, something that would be a logistical nightmare. It looks like Zeus wants to get rid of the old community and start with something new.
Ok this has been suggested since Round 3.. its never gonna happen.. at least not.. the only way u get an account is through game.. we looked at just hiding PD,AD and other forums to non gamers.. this is viable but is unlikely to occur
The Game

The next round of Planetarion, known to some as round 9, or others as round 8b will be exactly the same as round 8/8a. No development work has been done since the start of the last round.
Again inaccurate - the game engine is being redesigned.. as is a majority of the game.. i know what Jiolt wnted added.. though i don't know which of them are being done for Rnd9.. either way changes r coming


1. Everyone who played the last round is well aware that it was the worst round ever, as the dropping user base has helped to indicate. To conduct another round based on the same code and stats is naive and insulting to the community. Some people have spent more time on their alliance websites than has been spent on the continued development of Planetarion.
I played last round... i enjoyed it.. because there were less players there were less bashings.. at least from my perspective

2. People paid for a service last round, and the round was never completed. They deserve a refund or free account this coming round. they don't have any money to refund you with.. also read ur user agreement.. its NEVEr refundable.. and the service of the product is not liable to FSAS

3. Development will apparently commence with the new round, but Planetarion now only has one accomplished programmer on their team. The proficient beta testers that have been kind enough to spend their time helping Planetarion have lost faith. Zeus has some stats up his sleeve that he'd like to see implemented, hopefully they are better than his spelling skills.
There r 2 coders on the team, Fudge and Kloopy.. and Spinner has a limited amount of coding knowledge ( he coded a reasonable football game by himself). as for the beta testers.. intresting what you consider proficient.. cause surely the idea of beta testing is to test against the community.. cause everyone acts differently.. while we have a community we have beta testers.. stats testers.. well that can be done by bots



Think about this:

1. With the purchase of a planet, you get to post on the Planetarion forums (If proposals are implemented). A lot of the forum regulars will never play the game again but still like posting there, what do you think they are going to do? Buy a planet so they can post on the forum, only to have to buy another planet in a month’s time when the round ends early? Or spend it on a lifetime membership to SomethingAwful's forums?
Sigh... see above

2. MMORPG are where it's at now! The appeal of smaller multiplayer games like Planetarion is in decline, especially when you consider the cost of games like Eve Online and the forthcoming Star Wars Galaxies which will be in the same price bracket than Planetarion.
U'll find the whole market is flawed nowadays.. cause the decent games cost money.. yes Pa is in decline.. but it still has a community.. all the other games when they shut down loase that
Its the community that makes the game.. not the other way round


3. We cannot forget to mention **********. A game written by an old Planetarion player in less time than it took to play a round, which currently has an even larger player base than Planetarion and is free. It has a thriving community, making it a promising alternative to Planetarion.
Though not as thriving as pa

Summary

What little information you have about what you think is going on is inccorect or out of date. You are presuming things that you know **** all about..

and as for provoking debate because the community needs to do something
The community is doing something.. they are out convincing jolt to have free rounds.. bringing suggestions for the new games.. looking at alliances(cochese)
not just sitting and being a whingy ****er that has nothign useful to say
[/b]
i think i finished now
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 13:17   #12
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Well said mr Mulian
I think it can be safely said that 90% (erring on the low side) of that post is complete sh*t, and it seems the poster is aware of that, being unwilling to admit to the post.
Moved to RP anyone? More Story-like than discussion
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 16:40   #13
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Re: Re: Where does the pathway lead Planetarion now?

Quote:
Originally posted by Karmulian
i think i finished now
The way you quoted "Secret" it's imensely annoying to quote you since you have to quote everything manualy. But then again i'm sure as admin you knew that and just wanted to prevent being quoted... Well, let me tell you something, YOUR PLAN FAILED! I shall quote you anyway! :-p

Quote:
Originally posted by Karmulian
they don't have any money to refund you with.. also read ur user agreement.. its NEVEr refundable.. and the service of the product is not liable to FSAS
You can write anything you want into the user agreement. That does not mean that anything in there is indeed legally binding.

In fact, while i don't know specifically about Norways laws, afaik in the EU countries certain guidelines of what can be agreed on in a user agreement have been set to improve consumer protection, and i'm pretty confident that 99% of those guidelines prohibit complete exclusion of liability from having any effect in a user agreement. I seriously doubt that Norway has a much worse consumer protection than the EU, so I'm rather confident that even under Norwegian law refund claims would be successfull once the right adressate of the claim is found, completely independent of what it says in the user agreement.
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r1: n00b
r2: 7:11 - T7C HC, WaC(Jr), Sedition HC
r3: 31:25 - Sedition, Century, SL HC
r4: 95:21 - BlueTubas'
r5: 30:5 - BlueTubas, VtS
r6: 33:24:1 - Deus Ex Machina HC, politically retired
r7: 38:22 -> 26:11 - RaH peon
r8: 12:3:4 - Defended by 1:1
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 17:24   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salomo
How come you're not posting this with your real boards account?
s/he's not that stupid.
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 17:40   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by mbushell
s/he's not that stupid.
Why would not posting incognito be stupid? Unless he is moderator, PA Crew, creator, or smthg similar there would be no drawback of posting with his real account, and it would add more credibility to his post.
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r1: n00b
r2: 7:11 - T7C HC, WaC(Jr), Sedition HC
r3: 31:25 - Sedition, Century, SL HC
r4: 95:21 - BlueTubas'
r5: 30:5 - BlueTubas, VtS
r6: 33:24:1 - Deus Ex Machina HC, politically retired
r7: 38:22 -> 26:11 - RaH peon
r8: 12:3:4 - Defended by 1:1
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 19:50   #16
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lets have an admin run an ip x-check ta
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 21:22   #17
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lets have an admin run an ip x-check ta
My guess is Karm already tried and came to the same conclusion as I did.
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 23:07   #18
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