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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 11:33   #101
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
I had a good giggle reading Gio2k and Byrney's posts, thanks guys!
I am having a good giggle myself at the attempts of portraying Asc and App as BFF and "the block is what counts".
Are you really that confident that Apprime HC will turn the block down if they come offering them #1 alliance?
Also, the blocks decision to hit Vsn is still the best, but in my opinion it was never about getting Vsn to back down in 1 or 2 days. It was about completely bringing Vsn down, bc they are the weakest. Any alliance can handle 1 or 2 days of getting outgunned, and they will come out morally strengthtened if we back down after 2 days. The point is to get Vsn into a position where they are of no big consequence, regardless of whether they stay in a block with Asc / App or not.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 11:49   #102
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
The point is to get Vsn into a position where they are of no big consequence, regardless of whether they stay in a block with Asc / App or not.
If VsN manages not to crash like e.g. Subh, it´s unlikely they´ll get beaten down to the point where they can make no significant impact on an enemy anymore. Sure, roiding them hard will slow down their growth, but since they´re not exactly in the race for the top spot, it doesn´t affect things that much.

I wouldn´t be too sure about the likes of App turning on Asc (or vice versa) if the block offers such a step, since it´s likely the other ally will return the fire to try and at least drag them down with them, so this would play into NDs (and maybe, but just maybe) CTs hands when it comes to alliance rankings. As Apprime have shown quite superior roiding capabilities this round in general, they´re probably capable of outroiding Ascendancy in the end.

As to Burneys assumption about HR/ASS cooperating with App/Asc/VsN: I can pretty safely say HR raided my gal just a few days ago, and the ASS planets had quite some waves on them. So no, I don´t think they cooperate much.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 11:58   #103
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Re: Round 34 officially over

The situation is this, you have 3 contenders for top alliance at the moment. Asc, ND, and Apprime.
Of those, the alliance with the smallest probability of winning is ND. That leaves either Asc or App. If things stay like this, what should the nd+dlr+euph+subh do? The only thing they could and will probably do is play kingmakers.
In the end if Apprime and Ascendancy remain allied, it will be like drawing straws. One of them will be targetted, while the other will get the victory handed to them. Of course, at the end of round ceremony, both can hold hands and then the top alliance will thank the other one for not backing down on their deal, and bla bla bla.
In terms of statistics it will be either +1 for Apprime, or +1 for Ascendancy, and we can start placing bets as to who the block wants to be king.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 12:11   #104
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
In terms of statistics it will be either +1 for Apprime, or +1 for Ascendancy, and we can start placing bets as to who the block wants to be king.
Terrible situation you created, isn´t it? To be honest, at this point I hardly care whether App or Asc is on #1 in the end, it´s a concerted effort and none of the two could have stood against the block all alone. There are two ways you can approach history: read a statistic and believe it, or lok into things and check how the course of action really was.
So no, it´s not just "+1 win for either App or Asc", so far it´s pretty much a shared victory.

Note there is a major difference to r31, when xVx somewhat stupidly gave away their possible win by basically first joining the BGs and then switching sides. This round is much more of a prolonged war of pretty fixed blocks, so the side is particulary more important than the winning alliance. Somewhat more like the end of r9, when Eclipse/ToT won vs Elysium/WP. Sure, Eclipse had the top spot, but nontheless ToT won with them.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 12:34   #105
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Re: Round 34 officially over

What's the last block you remember? Personally, the last block i remember is r8 or r9. Perhaps we will see a return of the blocks this time, but PA has been all about the winning alliance since 1up first formed.
Maybe you see yourselves as one block, but i see only Asc or Apprime ( and i am pretty sure i am not in the minority here) , and you are rivals, regardless of whatever circumstances forced you to team up this round. It's like Highlander, dude.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 12:45   #106
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Are you really that confident that Apprime HC will turn the block down if they come offering them #1 alliance?
Considering it has already happened...

Quote:
Perhaps we will see a return of the blocks this time, but PA has been all about the winning alliance since 1up first formed.
The game hasn't changed in any meaningful way since pre-pax (and 1up didn't even play the first pax rounds) bar pateam deciding to stick in a score ranking. Given that all this does is count up scores that we could have counted up anyways there's no reason to say that if a block ever could win a round it can't now.

Quote:
What's the last block you remember?
This isn't really a good argument. Just because something hasn't happened recently doesn't mean it can't happen.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 12:54   #107
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Given that all this does is count up scores that we could have counted up anyways there's no reason to say that if a block ever could win a round it can't now.
I am not saying it can't. I am saying it has not happened in what, over 20 rounds now? Perhaps this round will be remembered as the return of block wars to PA, where #1 alliance and #1 galaxy and #1 planet take a secondary role to the winning block. I don't think so, but it could happen. I think in 5 rounds from now, the only thing that will be remembered is that either Asc won the round, or Apprime did. I also think the Asc / App rivalry will be very much alive as long as those alliances play PA.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 12:58   #108
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
What's the last block you remember? Personally, the last block i remember is r8 or r9.
Depending on your exact definition, it may or may not be possible to count the numerous gangbang attempts on allies like Asc (and also Apprime later on) in the past few rounds as blocks. I mean, seriously, if like all top allies teamup for the majority of the round to hit a single ally, it´s pretty much one huge block there, isn´t it?
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 13:10   #109
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
I am not saying it can't. I am saying it has not happened in what, over 20 rounds now? Perhaps this round will be remembered as the return of block wars to PA, where #1 alliance and #1 galaxy and #1 planet take a secondary role to the winning block. I don't think so, but it could happen. I think in 5 rounds from now, the only thing that will be remembered is that either Asc won the round, or Apprime did. I also think the Asc / App rivalry will be very much alive as long as those alliances play PA.
Well Fury and Legion were rivals but it didn't mean they couldn't co-operate to kick the shit out of everyone else. Personally I reckon that apprime and ascendancy will consider it a joint win with vision as junior partners in the block, and that everyone else will insist it's not because, well, if it is then you really accomplished dick nothing. I mean I still consider r31 a joint victory between ascendancy and xVx but I guess not that many people do. Someone has to occupy the #1 ranking spot but I just don't think it carries that much weight in and of itself as to what this game is really about.

Equally, given the fact that this clearly is a relatively contentious issue, there's obviously something to the idea that a "block" can be the victor in a round.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 13:15   #110
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Re: Round 34 officially over

My definition is pretty simple:
When you talk about r5 to r9, the talk goes like this: "Remember that round where NEWX got gangbanged by FLTTV?"
When you talk of the last 20 rounds, the talk goes like this "Remember that round when 1up lost to Asc bc of the XP?" or "Remember that time when alliance X won by hiding all his planets out of tag until late in the round?" or "Remember that time when 1up won with only 2/3 of the alliance tag?"
To put it another way, does anyone remember that the first round eXilition played, they had Angels as allies? Does anyone remember what allies 1up had? (probably ND) Does anyone care?
Since Alliance / Galaxy Rankings by score got introduced, it has been all about the winning alliance, not about blocks. Perhaps we need to get rid of ingame scores, and then we will shift back to meaningful block wars. Until then i don't think so.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 13:16   #111
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Well Fury and Legion were rivals but it didn't mean they couldn't co-operate to kick the shit out of everyone else. Personally I reckon that apprime and ascendancy will consider it a joint win with vision as junior partners in the block, and that everyone else will insist it's not because, well, if it is then you really accomplished dick nothing. I mean I still consider r31 a joint victory between ascendancy and xVx but I guess not that many people do. Someone has to occupy the #1 ranking spot but I just don't think it carries that much weight in and of itself as to what this game is really about.

Equally, given the fact that this clearly is a relatively contentious issue, there's obviously something to the idea that a "block" can be the victor in a round.
This is post is outrageous. So basically if Apprime and Ascendancy continue to grow above the rest, there is no point hitting anyone else because in round 34 the two spots count was #1.. lol more?
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 13:20   #112
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
In terms of statistics it will be either +1 for Apprime, or +1 for Ascendancy, and we can start placing bets as to who the block wants to be king.
Another +1 for Ascendancy matters less then a lot of other things at the moment for Ascendancy.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 13:24   #113
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
My definition is pretty simple:
When you talk about r5 to r9, the talk goes like this: "Remember that round where NEWX got gangbanged by FLTTV?"
When you talk of the last 20 rounds, the talk goes like this "Remember that round when 1up lost to Asc bc of the XP?" or "Remember that time when alliance X won by hiding all his planets out of tag until late in the round?" or "Remember that time when 1up won with only 2/3 of the alliance tag?"
To put it another way, does anyone remember that the first round eXilition played, they had Angels as allies? Does anyone remember what allies 1up had? (probably ND) Does anyone care?
Since Alliance / Galaxy Rankings by score got introduced, it has been all about the winning alliance, not about blocks. Perhaps we need to get rid of ingame scores, and then we will shift back to meaningful block wars. Until then i don't think so.
Usually there's clearly been a superior alliance in the block though, that's what you're missing. Just as I'm not really saying that Vision could consider themselves winners on the same level as Ascendancy or Apprime. Just that there's not really much point in saying Apprime won or Ascendancy won unless it's conclusive that one of them was the better alliance. If one alliance wins by 5 million score having not fought the other that doesn't really prove anything. Now if one of them collapsed today and ended up fourth with half the military power of the other it'd be fairly clear, even if agreements were never broken, who the better alliance was this round.

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Originally Posted by CBA
This is post is outrageous. So basically if Apprime and Ascendancy continue to grow above the rest, there is no point hitting anyone else because in round 34 the two spots count was #1.. lol more?
I honestly don't think I can lower myself to arguing with you. Perhaps when you've managed to rise above the intellectual level of a fairly slow chimp on an off day? Maybe just when you can construct a post consisting of something more than a pretty basic strawman?
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 13:36   #114
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Usually there's clearly been a superior alliance in the block though, that's what you're missing.
I am sure there was a superior alliance in every block. In the FLTTV round it was Legion as far as i remember. The interesting thing is, back then it was quite clear that which alliance was the best within the block is secondary to the block itself. In contrast, i never even noticed that xVx was joint winner with Asc on r31.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 13:47   #115
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
I am sure there was a superior alliance in every block. In the FLTTV round it was Legion as far as i remember. The interesting thing is, back then it was quite clear that which alliance was the best within the block is secondary to the block itself. In contrast, i never even noticed that xVx was joint winner with Asc on r31.
I'm just going to straight-up disagree with you. On every point you made. In r6/7 (which was FLTTV and whatever the **** the next acronym became) I thought it was Fury that was the better alliance, and in r7 this was almost certainly true which is why I must admit I thought most people remembered fury as the winner of r7. Equally in r6 it was about NoS, Wolfpack and Deus, even though there were other alliances in the FoS block. That was really just an inconclusive round though. Rounds like r5, fury and legion, and r8, titans and LDK, it's pretty difficult to see a superior alliance from one of the two and there are definitely good arguments to be made for both sides.

Largely the powerful alliances used the block to propel themselves towards military supremacy (which is what this game is really about) and the smaller alliances used it to avoid being killed (beyond the normal personal friendships and interests aspect of PA). Sometimes blocks have clear winners, sometimes they don't. If Ascendancy or Apprime ended up winning the round by a few million score over the other it won't be clear. If they're really that much better they'll win clearly regardless of whether or not they go to war with each other. If they're genuinely interested in determining who the better alliance is they certainly won't want anyone else involved on either side.

To clarify obviously on some level your initial point is accurate. One alliance is always going to be slightly superior to the other, the odds on two exactly equal alliances are mind-bogglingly long. However how is that going to be determined by accepting the offer of a group of five alliances to gangbang the other guy for you to enable you to get the #1 ranking?
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 14:41   #116
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
I am sure there was a superior alliance in every block. In the FLTTV round it was Legion as far as i remember. The interesting thing is, back then it was quite clear that which alliance was the best within the block is secondary to the block itself. In contrast, i never even noticed that xVx was joint winner with Asc on r31.

You're so wrong.

Round 5 wasn't clear cut, and biased I'd still peg Fury as the strongest due to various factors involving motivation, membership, leadership and politics, but r5 is hard to call.

Round 6 is where Fury really showed itself as the best out of the block. Despite not winning the round, it was the one alliance Deus had to focus on and also the only one that had the stamina where it looked like it could have made a comeback - time just ran out.

Round 7, Lokken and crew called it first in stating that Fury was the strongest going in. Was correct. Even Titans at this point, mainly an anti-Fury faction said Fury was the more organized.

I dont know how you came to Legion being the strongest, as even the die hard can attest to Fury's sheer scale of strength shown during its comeback r5, the war with Deus/NoS etc and domination r7.

Legion historically was the most elite up to r4. R4 is where both Fury and Legion broke down, and was won by Xanadu. Though Legion and Fury camps will argue r5 consistently.

This also started the Xanadu-Fury rivalry, to where in the end Fury was the victor.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 15:36   #117
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Thanks for the histroy lesson. It was long time ago. I thought it was Legion, but it could also be that Legion was the dominating force in my cluster or parallel or whatever the **** the eta advantage was based on. Obviously, you remember the specifics of every war Fury was in, since you were Fury. On the other hand, for anyone outside the FLTTV block, it was not about Fury or Legion being the best, it was about winning against the whole block or losing against the whole block.
However, this whole who was better, Legion or Fury, was not my point. My point is that the last time we had a proper block war was 20+ rounds ago.
Some of you might disagree and argue that this round is going to be remembered as a block war between Asc+App and ND+Euph+DLR+subh+CT. I am arguing that the only thing that will matter and will be remembered in the end is which alliance won.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 15:59   #118
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Some of you might disagree and argue that this round is going to be remembered as a block war between Asc+App and ND+Euph+DLR+subh+CT. I am arguing that the only thing that will matter and will be remembered in the end is which alliance won.
I guess you better get started on your predictions of what people will remember from r34 thread then! It does seem slightly bizzare that your argument over whether or not a block can win or not comes down to whether or not people think a block won or not. Sort of a bit, er, circular?
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 16:08   #119
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Re: Round 34 officially over

I predict r34 will be remembered as being forgettable.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 16:21   #120
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Re: Round 34 officially over

I will remember r34 as the round I was bitterly disappointed with Subh
and select folk who XXXXed up at the expense of their fellow members for vanity/planet rank/galaxy rank.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 16:45   #121
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Linkie: Mr. BeGood, thanks for coming to your performance review.
JBG: No problem.
Linkie: So you're in charge around here, is that fair to say?
JBG: Absolutely, I'm the boss.
Linkie: Ok, so take us through a day in the life of the boss.
JBG: Well, the first thing i do is...

LOG ON THE FORUMS. (LIKE A BOSS).
READ UP ON AD. (LIKE A BOSS).
CRY A LITTLE. (LIKE A BOSS).
OWN SOME NOOB. (LIKE A BOSS).
LOG ON IRC. (LIKE A BOSS).
DO SOME DEFCALLS. (LIKE A BOSS).
MAKE A JOKE. (LIKE A BOSS).
ABOUT YOUR MOTHER. (LIKE A BOSS).
SET UP AN ATTACK. (LIKE A BOSS).
TRY TO GET A HOLD OF ACHI. (LIKE A BOSS).
WATCH ACHI CRASH. (LIKE A BOSS).
AGAIN. (LIKE A BOSS).
TALK TO MUNIN. (LIKE A BOSS).
LOG OFF IRC. (LIKE A BOSS).
GO OUT DRINKING. (LIKE A BOSS).
WAKE UP TO CRASHES. (LIKE A BOSS).
SPEND MY SALVAGE. (LIKE A BOSS).
HATE ON CATHS. (LIKE A BOSS).
GET TIRED OF ISIL. (LIKE A BOSS).
TALK TO BREAD. (LIKE A BOSS).
PAWN SOME HCS. (LIKE A BOSS).
WIN THE GAME. (LIKE A BOSS).
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 18:03   #122
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Re: Round 34 officially over

I was gonna pos rep you man, until you made that blatant factual error in the fourth line from the bottom

I mean, people can get tired of being in the shadow of my awesomeness, but JBG aint that far behind me in awesomeness, so I think he will be ok!
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 18:46   #123
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Some of you might disagree and argue that this round is going to be remembered as a block war between Asc+App and ND+Euph+DLR+subh+CT. I am arguing that the only thing that will matter and will be remembered in the end is which alliance won.
You are essentially correct; ppl will remember this round as one that Asc won or App won but thats only because it becomes crystalized in the rankings and anyone refreshing their memory with the wiki will be given that statistical view that doesn't really tell you what happened.
From what I can tell there has been vastly more defence between App and Asc than at any other point ive been in ascendancy, previous alliances have simply attacked together. Its the defence that really makes an alliance. Because Apps have had def from Asc and vice versa neither could possibly say that they were standing on their own two feet.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 20:19   #124
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
I'm glad a logical post explaining in detail our thought process makes you laugh ellonweb, tell me, what would you have done in the situation?
If I ever made such an awful string of decisions to find myself in that situation in the first place, I think I'd consider getting myself checked out for mental retardation.

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Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
It seems obvious this was the wrong choice (everyone is telling me that here) but I'm not seeing anyone with any other valid suggestions, perhaps JBG excluded but even his ideas or somewhat lacking here. Or do you all just let him argue for you?
JBG has posted such good arguments consistently in this thread (and forums in general) that I rarely find myself needing to post any more. The fact that you and Gio2k continue to debate things with him was the source of my entertainment! Anyway, to the point: noone else has offered suggestions because JBG has repeatedly told you what the better option was. That said, you probably still wouldn't have won, it was far too late for that, but you'd probably have a more enjoyable end of the round at least, which brings me to my next point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Are you really that confident that Apprime HC will turn the block down if they come offering them #1 alliance?
Yes. As someone has already said (probably JBG again), nothing is more annoying than alliances like DLR and Euphoria trying to manipulate other alliances and avoid incoming, and swatting them like flies at the end is a lot of fun.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 20:37   #125
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Re: Round 34 officially over

JBG has repeatedly told me what the better option was? I believe he made one half hearted suggestion and admitted himself it was probably futile at this point. And what does that have to do with your post anyway?

To be perfectly honest with you it's that kind of post that makes this forum the cesspit it is. I respect some of the posters on here who will argue their points reasonably (Lokken, JBG (sometimes), Mz to some extent) but the majority of stuff posted on here is complete drivel. I mean I can stop posting altogether and let the forum continue to rot if you want because frankly if I'm just going to be trolled for what I feel were reasonable, explanatory posts then I don't really see why I bother anyway. I don't mind being told I'm wrong as long as it's backed up but you can **** off if you're just going to come here, tell me I'm an idiot and then hide behind the fact 'JBG has already said everything that need be said'. How about use your own ****ing brains for a change or just don't post at all.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 20:39   #126
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
OK here's the deal, if I have no proof tomorrow morning I'll come here and acknowledge it. I really don't give a shit as it was something of a tangent to what I was saying anyway in that I don't think Asc/App believed they couldn't win.
As promised, looks like there was no involvement by either last night so my information was obviously off. My apologies for any offence caused by this!
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 21:08   #127
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Re: Round 34 officially over

omg this argument is boring.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 21:13   #128
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Which one? We've had 3 different ones going on man, you need to be more specific.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 21:16   #129
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Also, ell, however misguided certain decisions in PA may/might have been/might not have been, they certainly don't put somebody in the "mental retard" category. Can we not try and elevate the gravity of errors to a status implying serious disability?

Resorting to extreme accusations over what is basically down to personal choice says more about the person making the insult than it does the recipient.
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 21:16   #130
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
Which one? We've had 3 different ones going on man, you need to be more specific.
Atm? All of them. It's basically the same thread we've had about 10 times already. Reading the same shit round after round gets boring, ya know?
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 21:25   #131
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I mean I still consider r31 a joint victory between ascendancy and xVx but I guess not that many people do.
I consider it a loss for everyone. Especially the BGs
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 22:17   #132
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Re: Round 34 officially over

i consider this round a loss for myself as you arent playing kila and we cant hold hands
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Unread 3 Dec 2009, 22:52   #133
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
JBG has repeatedly told me what the better option was? I believe he made one half hearted suggestion and admitted himself it was probably futile at this point.
And I agreed that it was also probably futile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
That said, you probably still wouldn't have won, it was far too late for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
To be perfectly honest with you it's that kind of post that makes this forum the cesspit it is. I respect some of the posters on here who will argue their points reasonably (Lokken, JBG (sometimes), Mz to some extent) but the majority of stuff posted on here is complete drivel.
I agree with you on this, you backed your posts up with (arguably flawed) logic, and that makes a good post. And I enjoyed your exchange on these forums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
I don't mind being told I'm wrong as long as it's backed up but you can **** off if you're just going to come here, tell me I'm an idiot and then hide behind the fact 'JBG has already said everything that need be said'. How about use your own ****ing brains for a change or just don't post at all.
Harsh words. As an aside, I never called you an idiot, but to the point: I'm reading through the posts people make and I think to myself "here's a clever response!" or something along those lines, but I continue to read all the remaining posts and then see that someone has beaten me to it! So I have three options, I could post the same thing again, thus continuing to fuel the endless circular arguments (yes I know there's no other kind of circle...), I could quote the guy who shares my opinion and add some message along the lines of "qft!" or I could post nothing. I tend to choose the latter, so please excuse me for "not using my own brain". Getting back to my original post, yes it was a semi-troll, but equally I am thankful that you have taken the time to post your opinions, the thoughts going through your mind and the (again, arguably flawed) logic behind them, that is what makes the forums fun to read. That and the odd troll!
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 01:09   #134
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Re: Round 34 officially over

I'd like to take this thread back on topic for a while. Earlier, I talked about allowing an Apprime/Ascendancy situation to precipitate being pretty bad. What also stands out reading this thread back again is not only did you precipitate the situation, but the alliances in question decided to make it worse.

Why hit Vision? They are not relevant to ND winning or losing the round and are of little consequence in the grand scheme of things. In addition the game engine doesn't really allow for alliances to be wiped out, so you can't really chip away at an opponent and take them out of the game. The only way to take an alliance out of the game is to quite simply, annihilate them. This is not possible, so any rationale for hitting them is pretty much non-existent.

The most desirable situation for all of you was to drive a wedge between Apprime and Ascendancy and hope one of them chooses to change tack for whatever reason. You know they are both alliances that want to win and probably wouldn't be aliied for long if they believed that by doing something different, they'd have a good chance of the win. Right now all we're going to have is some kind of crappy russian roulette which is dull for everyone involved.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 03:02   #135
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
The most desirable situation for all of you was to drive a wedge between Apprime and Ascendancy and hope one of them chooses to change tack for whatever reason. You know they are both alliances that want to win and probably wouldn't be aliied for long if they believed that by doing something different, they'd have a good chance of the win. Right now all we're going to have is some kind of crappy russian roulette which is dull for everyone involved.
I think there is a verb tense disagreement in this, and it's throwing me off. Do you suggest such a wedge was, but is no longer, possible? That would make the rest of the post a very recent history lesson. Or else this is predominantly talking about the present and future, in which case: on your re-read through did you gloss over all the app/asc posters in this thread? They all insist they could care less about winning the round, tag wise at least (they've already decided they get the block-moral-victory, and decided that's the one that counts this round).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Why hit Vision? They are not relevant to ND winning or losing the round and are of little consequence in the grand scheme of things. In addition the game engine doesn't really allow for alliances to be wiped out, so you can't really chip away at an opponent and take them out of the game. The only way to take an alliance out of the game is to quite simply, annihilate them. This is not possible, so any rationale for hitting them is pretty much non-existent.
As for hitting vision, that wouldn't have been my decision but that doesn't mean I'm against it. They're in bed with the enemy, and it's not bad for them to know if they have roids worth taking, they're going to get taken. Two days of nice landings are also good for morale, especially when sandwiched by streaks of hitting the two best defensive allies in the round, who are also pooling defense. I find a dash of hypocrisy from those posters who claim this to be a block-war instead of tag-war round, and then insist hitting vision was the most retarded thing to ever happen in the past 34 rounds. They also seem to think that the block with ND in it should be doing everything they can to get ND the tag win, while their block should be (and is) playing under a different set of goals. But mostly I wonder if cardinal will realize before or after he's completely hung out to dry by the top 8, that the SCEND block is the core of ascendancy, and he's been the puppet of the greatest HC conspiracy to grace PA.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 04:22   #136
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
I had a good giggle reading Gio2k and Byrney's posts, thanks guys!
Dont just dismiss peoples points as ludicrous as they may not articulate it as well as the great JBG - I really dont feel hitting VSN was a failing strategy. Not everything can be measured at this stage in score and value, I know alot of the block enjoyed the easy roids afforded by VSN and it provided increased morale all across the block. It also managed to negate some of the losses taken by ND over the period they were hit - in the end hitting the same 5 or 6 fortress gals of Apprime can become weary and detrimental to morale. Also killed afair bit of VSN value and lost very little value compared to what we were losing against Apprime and VSN. Yes ND are undoubtedly in a worse off position militarily but on a balance the two blocks are as equally matched as they were before targetting VSN. The hit on VSN also coincided with the app/asc/vsn/peng/ass/hr hit on ND - which was the first real incs ND had recieved all round meaning that we were always going to lose the lead at that stage and showing links of the comparitive size ratios is highly misleading as ND being hit was inevitable.

Its also a missconception that VSN werent fully invested in the block and we forced them into greater action as their hostile fleet counts are very high, not as high as app/asc admitedly but nobody would expect that to be the case. In my eyes anyone that partakes in joint FC's on the opposing block is heavily invested. Everyone seems to enjoy stating how its asc/app/vsn against subh/nd/oddr/dlr/euph/ct - however this is pretty inaccurate as the asc block often have alliances such as HR, penguins and ASS galraiding the opposing blocks 'fortress gals' (or as close to it as they can find - plenty of ND gals with 5/6 members) and in many respects contribute to that block as much as oddr/subh. To the extent that last nights attack on asc/4:8 was predominately DLR/ND with very little from any other alliance attacking asc in any shape or form.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 04:27   #137
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeyLove
Everyone seems to enjoy stating how its asc/app/vsn against subh/nd/oddr/dlr/euph/ct - however this is pretty inaccurate as the asc block often have alliances such as HR, penguins and ASS galraiding the opposing blocks 'fortress gals' (or as close to it as they can find - plenty of ND gals with 5/6 members) and in many respects contribute to that block as much as oddr/subh.
Actually HR galraided a gal with 4 asc in it last night
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 04:29   #138
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
Actually HR galraided a gal with 4 asc in it last night
Well maybe theyre just a well informed opportunistic bunch - as they hit ND gals when we were getting heavy inc, with similar reports from other alliances in the block!
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 04:35   #139
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post

The block was seen as the best way to make sure we could keep both Ascendancy and Apprime under control. Obviously in hindsight we should have attempted to play the 2 best alliances against each other rather than forcing them into an alliance. I suppose we didn't because we overestimated the resistance Subh - and to a lesser extent ND, who we've allied before - would put up when targeted and underestimated the amount of crashes.

Anyway as Subh crumbled and we couldn't roid Ascendancy well enough we ended up in this rather sad looking position.
Not quite sure how you could overestimate ND - we have undoubtedly been our strongest in at least 5 rounds and if anything have worked towards losing our reputation as a crashing alliance (if such a eventuality is possible). In my eyes the block was formed to simply have a chance at roiding the 4 big apprime gals that nobody could take alone, making a teamup natural. Things just spiraled from there with cardi starting an all-out war on Subh and everyone else feeling they had to back them up..
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 04:49   #140
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by zebra View Post
They also seem to think that the block with ND in it should be doing everything they can to get ND the tag win, while their block should be (and is) playing under a different set of goals. But mostly I wonder if cardinal will realize before or after he's completely hung out to dry by the top 8, that the SCEND block is the core of ascendancy, and he's been the puppet of the greatest HC conspiracy to grace PA.
Completely true - the block would obviously prefer ND won but it really isnt in anyones set of priorities except ND, gm openly flinches at any suggestion that we should do this 'to help ND win'. I guess im not even sure what the blocks objectives are, possibly to ensure that we dont have another final two weeks of everyone but asc/app being farmed out of the top 100 due to such obsene levels of domination - maybe merely holding them to a a relative draw is a satisfactory result for now, undoubtedly an improvement on previous rounds and can perhaps be used as a building block for the future. In my eyes the key to asc's success is its resilience, enduring a long-war that the block appears to be losing will surely increase the resilience of its members for any future rounds. While future rounds isnt a priority for allies like asc and app - ND is a work in progress and ensuring steady improvements is essential to any longer term achievements.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 05:40   #141
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Gosh you are funny lukey.

Quote:
Dont just dismiss peoples points as ludicrous as they may not articulate it as well as the great JBG
It can be dismissed when the facts arent right though, yeah?
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 06:59   #142
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Re: Round 34 officially over

ZOMG I CANT BELIEVE HR STABBED US TODAY, THEY ARE FULLFLEET TARGETTING US!!! COUNTING LIKE 10 FLEETS FROM HR ON DEFPAGE MUST MEAN THEY JOINED THE OTHER BLOCK!!

seriously, what deal did you offer HR to join your block? we are really having our hands full here with HR hitting some random planets.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 06:59   #143
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Alki View Post
Gosh you are funny lukey.
Quote:
Dont just dismiss peoples points as ludicrous as they may not articulate it as well as the great JBG
It can be dismissed when the facts arent right though, yeah?
What I think is funny is that you looked through 3 posts of his, glossing over everything he said that was actually about the game to end up quoting that. I'm pretty sure you, along with most of the other asc&co posters, could help provide for a real discussion (as much as one can exist on the internet), but instead it's a circlejerk perpetuated by the vocal majority. One of the reasons why there are relatively few other regular posters here is not because they're mostly shit; it's because you're mostly shit.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 07:05   #144
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Re: Round 34 officially over

[07:01:06] * HaNzI|afk changes topic to 'Home of Apprime, stabbed by our number 1 ally today, HR! ((((((('
[07:04:29] <@HaNzI|afk> I think we need to re-evaluate our entire strategy
[07:04:36] <@HaNzI|afk> we need to bring war to the weakest link
[07:05:07] <@HaNzI|afk> i will come back to which planets in HR we are taking out, because i fear most are under our bashlimit
[07:05:08] <@HaNzI|afk> -peace
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 11:51   #145
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
deciding to stick in a score ranking.
I vote rearranging the rankings in terms of giving score for destroying fleet and capturing asteroids. I'm aware that this has it's blatantly obvious drawbacks (not the least a sort of a winner's curse), but I think it would move the game more towards being a war game and less towards being a fence management session.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 13:31   #146
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
I vote rearranging the rankings in terms of giving score for destroying fleet and capturing asteroids. I'm aware that this has it's blatantly obvious drawbacks (not the least a sort of a winner's curse), but I think it would move the game more towards being a war game and less towards being a fence management session.
I don't remember us doing that badly without alliance rankings to be honest.


This HR/ASS stuff seems really insane to be honest. I'm sure someone for either alliance would be able to inform us if they really are part of any particular block.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeylove
Things just spiraled from there with cardi starting an all-out war on Subh and everyone else feeling they had to back them up.
I haven't really been paying that close attention but wasn't it DLR/Euphoria vs Apprime for a while and Subh only became involved when DLR/Euphoria got them in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra
I think there is a verb tense disagreement in this, and it's throwing me off. Do you suggest such a wedge was, but is no longer, possible?
I don't know if lokken means this but if he does I'd agree with him. After the amount of talking on the forums about such a course and hoping apprime would backstab ascendancy or vice versa it's less likely to happen due to people on both sides being eager to show they're not simple predictable creatures or what have you.

Quote:
I find a dash of hypocrisy from those posters who claim this to be a block-war instead of tag-war round, and then insist hitting vision was the most retarded thing to ever happen in the past 34 rounds. They also seem to think that the block with ND in it should be doing everything they can to get ND the tag win, while their block should be (and is) playing under a different set of goals.
I don't think your block has any coherent goals. To a large extent this is what leaves you so weak looking even beyond military terms. Having something, anything, positive to pursue would be of immense benefit in giving yourselves purpose. I know lokken used the term negative politics in connection with something else a while ago but if ever the term was appropriate it's here, for a block (and this hasn't been limited to just this round) whose main purpose seems to be "well, at least let's not let ourselves get farmed into the ground". If only we could all aim so high.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 14:31   #147
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
This HR/ASS stuff seems really insane to be honest. I'm sure someone for either alliance would be able to inform us if they really are part of any particular block.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 14:34   #148
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Re: Round 34 officially over

ASS does NOT form part of any political group or agenda including Blocking for the record. We target gals based on viability of that gal, not affiliation.

That said... anybody that's visited #ASSPublic will have noted...

[11:01] <[ASS]chukles> randomly bashing the universe to hopefully hit an asc planet to stop em getting #1

Although this is just a joke and a little outdated me thinks
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 15:48   #149
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Re: Round 34 officially over

For the 2nd tier alliances blocking has always been a means to make life a bit easier and get a few high ranked planets. That seems to be working so far. I think in that light the block is a big success. (No idea why VisioN joint the other block btw.) Especially as it seems like the block would be 'winning' based on pure score. But the real win is ofcourse for the #1 tag. And that race is still open, which imo is a testimony to how interesting this round has been so far.
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Unread 4 Dec 2009, 15:56   #150
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Given the impact made on Ascendancy over the last two days, coupled with the fact Apprime aren't exactly charging away with 7% roid gains, and if ND could only stop crashing it looks eminently possible for them to take the #1 alliance ranking. Obviously one can never exactly predict how things turn out if someone did something differently in the past but I'm pretty sure that the "if we hit Ascendancy then Apprime win for sure and vice versa so let's hit vision" logic doesn't really look spot on right now. Then again it's not that easy to work out what on earth everyone's objective are really.
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