Planetarion Forums - So, whose lectures are cancelled tomorrow then?

Belgarath The Sorcerer · 6 Mar 2006, 17:13

One of my lectures is cancelled tomorrow (3 hour lecture/tutorial/practical), because of strike action by the two major Lecturers unions. This is particularly pissing me off because I am a final year student, and I have just under 3 months left at Uni, and they are on about boycotting exams as well.

One of my friends at Bradford (also final year) has had his lecture tomorrow cancelled too, and he is as pissed off as I am.

Who else is up shit creek?

Alki · 6 Mar 2006, 17:19

yeah most of my lectures are off tomorrow, instead of teachers in our labs, we are going to have post grads, who literally know **** all about the subject so joy

bwtmc · 6 Mar 2006, 17:21

My university's so unbelievably fantastic that:

The first lecturer (of two, on tuesday) will be turning up as usual, as he's the department director.

The second lecturer isn't going to strike, but can't be arsed to lecture when others aren't, so he won't be showing up.

Ste · 6 Mar 2006, 17:22

that happened to me last year too.
Except there was one lecturer who wasn't part of the union... and i had a lecture with him that day.

Belgarath The Sorcerer · 6 Mar 2006, 17:22

The lecturer that is striking sent us an email this morning confirming that he was going to be striking, and told us that we should check with any other lecturers that we have tomorrow wether or not they were striking also.

It looks like I'll be staying up and working on assignments.

Dante Hicks · 6 Mar 2006, 17:22

I may be under-estimating the difficulty of your degree course but I doubt a few missed lectures is going to ruin your chances.

Belgarath The Sorcerer · 6 Mar 2006, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I may be under-estimating the difficulty of your degree course but I doubt a few missed lectures is going to ruin your chances.

Probably not, however: The unions have instructed their members that after the strike action to pursue "indefinite action short of a strike" including boycotts of student assessment and exams and staff appraisals, and a refusal to cover for absent colleagues.

Which means, my coursework and exams may not get marked in time for me (and hundreds of thousands of other students) to graduate on time, and thus harm my chances of getting a well paid job or being accepted onto a PGCE.

This has a direct effect on the likelihood of being able to buy a house with my girlfriend, and also means I might not be able to get married next year either.

Dante Hicks · 6 Mar 2006, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer

This has a direct effect on the likelihood of being able to buy a house with my girlfriend, and also means I might not be able to get married next year either.

This all sounds rather melodramatic.

The strike/action will probably be called off fairly quickly (they usually are but obviously you can't publicly announce that you are planning on folding after a week - it get's in the way of tough talk) and even if not deadlines will be shifted back I'd imagine. It'd be particularly gay if PGCE courses (say) didn't extend their application window given this action may affect numerous students.

At the very least I think it's unlikely that you are "up shit creek".

Dace · 7 Mar 2006, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer

This has a direct effect on the likelihood of being able to buy a house with my girlfriend, and also means I might not be able to get married next year either.

Surely your (horrendous) looks would have more of an impact?

Nodrog · 6 Mar 2006, 17:56

The academics here arent striking :o

Tomkat · 6 Mar 2006, 17:25

I wonder if I can strike and pretend I'm a lecturer

midge5 · 6 Mar 2006, 17:30

Surely even if you miss them tomorrow it just means lectures will run for a little bit extra at the end of term? That's what is happening with mine anyway so while it is slightly annoying it has actually come at a good time for me with lots of coursework due soon. As for your other worries, I can't see that happening. All mine are still intending to carry one xactly as normal after this no matter what the unions have called for and told us not to worry as we won't be affected at all.

furball · 6 Mar 2006, 17:40

My lecture's still being held tomorrow afternoon, but the tutorial in the morning is moved to Wednesday.

Only 50% of university lecturers are affiliated to the striking unions.

Belgarath The Sorcerer · 6 Mar 2006, 17:56

Melodrama aside, it could still be quite a frustrating time ahead.

T&C: Of course not no. It's just really annoying to be this close to the end of my degree, and have all this shit to deal with.

Yahwe · 6 Mar 2006, 17:59

I recieved an e-mail from the University asking me if I was going to go on strike then could I please inform my department head so that he would know in order to dock my pay by a day.

I gather that sensible universities are ignoring the strike on the basis that it won't change anything and it's rather silly.

furball · 6 Mar 2006, 18:04

Yahwe: it's not up to the university, it's up to the staff as to whether a strike takes place or not. It's the universities' fault - reneging on deals with teaching unions to increase pay for under-paid lecturers who do 50-60 hours of work a week now that top-up fees are coming into place.

Yahwe · 6 Mar 2006, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Yahwe: it's not up to the university, it's up to the staff as to whether a strike takes place or not.

I hadn't realised that until you told me.

Demon Dave · 6 Mar 2006, 18:08

All my lectures are cancelled tomorrow. I'm with the lecturers on this, why shouldn't they get paid more? After all, the uni's will be getting twice as much funding next year and they did already promise a pay rise to the staff (which they've since gone back on, hence the strike)

furball · 6 Mar 2006, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I gather that sensible universities are ignoring the strike on the basis that it won't change anything and it's rather silly.

Denial should remain merely a river in Egypt.

Yahwe · 6 Mar 2006, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Denial should remain merely a river in Egypt.

You're serious aren't you.

How bizare.

furball · 6 Mar 2006, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

You're serious aren't you.

How bizare.

You think that a sub-standard put down is a substitute for reasoned argument.

How typical.

Yahwe · 7 Mar 2006, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

You think that a sub-standard put down is a substitute for reasoned argument.

How typical.

No, I find it very difficult to even believe that you are seriously suggesting that you 'caught me out' or somehow 'identified a mistake'.

I made it perfectly clear that I was asked to join in this strike.

You would have to be incredibly stupid to seriously believe that I didn't know that the strike was organised by the union and not the universities on that basis alone.

Then comes the fact that all strikes are organised by unions and not the companies for whom the strikers work.

At this point you actually transcend idiocy by continuing to argue that somehow I had 'made a mistake'.

The entirety of this exchange HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT whether I made a mistake and you corrected me. The mistake you accused me of was one which, inorder to make I would actually have to physically remove my brain.

What this exchange has been about IS YOU.

What sort of a person are you to continue with such absurdity?
How angry are you at me that you abandon the ability to think when I am involved???

queball · 7 Mar 2006, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

The entirety of this exchange HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT whether I made a mistake and you corrected me. The mistake you accused me of was one which, inorder to make I would actually have to physically remove my brain.

Contrary to a common misconception, people would be unable to operate without a brain. You mean a lobotomy.

furball · 7 Mar 2006, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

What this exchange has been about IS YOU.

What sort of a person are you to continue with such absurdity?
How angry are you at me that you abandon the ability to think when I am involved???

Oh calm down Yahwe, it's only the internet. In about 5 minutes I'm going to turn off my laptop and go to bed.

As for you personally Yahwe, the only problems I've ever had with you stem from you maintaining cliques and stopping people from ever joining them. Now, I'm sure that this is what your internet persona dictates (and I'm sure it's not your fault) but it's still rather discouraging to those attempting to keep an open mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

hrmm was just reading the bbc news and it came up with this

Now the two disputed figures are 40k and 35k which lets face it either figure isnt bad at all. I thought academics were payed far less infact.

Remember that the top researchers are paid a fair whack (yet hardly teach), while the young lecturers that still have a passion for the subject are paid a pittance.

furball · 6 Mar 2006, 18:27

Green Spit: try to spot the emphasis in the sentence.

'merely' is not regarding the river's status in Egypt, it's saying that denial shouldn't be anything else. Muppet.

Phil^ · 6 Mar 2006, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Green Spit: try to spot the emphasis in the sentence.

'merely' is not regarding the river's status in Egypt, it's saying that denial shouldn't be anything else. Muppet.

'you cant save him mr frodo' :crymeariver:

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Mar 2006, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Spit

I'm well aware of what you were saying, a$$hole.

For you to not realise that gives me untold humour on this cold winters evening.

Because some people are just better than others.

JC · 6 Mar 2006, 18:32

My supervisor isnt turning up tomorrow and he wont make up for any time that is lost tomorrow. He wont mark work/exams in the future and he wont set any exam questions. Doesnt effect me as a phd student but its pretty harsh on the students although i understand why they are doing it.

pablissimo · 6 Mar 2006, 20:14

Our lecturers probably are striking, though individuals haven't had the damned courtesy to tell us whether they are or not so it could be something of a wasted morning. So I'm staging my own strike against discourteous lecturers by getting drunk tonight and picketing the picket tomorrow stinking of stale Guinness and possibly wearing half of a meat pie down my shirt as is the custom.

Phil^ · 6 Mar 2006, 20:42

mine *MAY* be striking, it seems they arent too sure ( plus they cant remember when

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by email

Sorry, it is Tuesday 7 March ie tomorrow..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Secretary person [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 06 March 2006 10:46
To: acforum
Subject: Industrial action Tuesday 8 March

Just to let students know that, due to AUT industrial action, some teaching activities MAY not be taking place on Tuesday 8 March.

Deepflow · 6 Mar 2006, 21:01

I don't know, they might be...

It doesn't really affect me though.

pig · 6 Mar 2006, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by University of Kent

GROUP EMAIL for European Security Co-operation since 1945 - PO599 - 1 - 2006 Principal Group
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear PO599 students,

As you may already know, the AUT (Association of University Teachers) and NATFHE (National Association of Teachers in Further and Higher Education) are striking on Tuesday 7 March. The reasons for the strike are explained in the following document: http://www.aut.org.uk/media/pdf/b/c/...guardianad.pdf . Please read it as it is designed specifically as a message from the trade unions to students.

The industrial action will affect the PO599 course in the following way:

(1) On Tuesday 7 March, the lecture will be cancelled. The lecture notes are on Ward anyway, and you are encouraged to read through them and to do the reading for that week (which consists in communiqués that you can find on Ward).

(2) All seminars, however, will run as usual. This is because otherwise, only the seminar group that meets right after the lecture would be penalised, as the Wednesday seminars would not be affected by the strike. So because we want to treat all of you in the same way, all the seminars will be running as usual.

(3) Alex will hold his office hours as usual, Tuesday 2-4. This is because your essays will be due in on the following week, and several of you may want to see Alex to discuss issues related to these.

(4) But the industrial action will affect you in another important way. That is, your essays will be marked but the marks will NOT be released until the matter is resolved between the AUT/NATFHE and their employers. This is in accordance with one of the actions that are listed in the document the link of which is provided above.

(5) Please note that there is no change to the deadline for your essays. They are still due to be handed in by Monday 13 March, 3:30 pm, and the rules on extensions will be the same (ie strictly no extension unless documented evidence to justify it, and extension form signed by the course convenor).

We will let you know if any other action is planned that would further affect your studies. But you can assume that things run as normal unless we email you to inform you of the contrary.

For your information, the Student Union has issued the following notice: "Kent Union firmly believes in enhancing the student experience. Making sure that students are taught by valued and highly motivated staff is all part of ensuring a high quality education for our members. This is why Kent Union and the National Union of Students are standing by the AUT and NATFHE in their call for industrial action."

We hope that you will also sympathise with us on the reasons for this industrial action, and we hope that the matter will be resolved quickly enough so as not to further disrupt your studies.

Best wishes,
Gulnur and Alex

Cannon_Fodder · 6 Mar 2006, 21:37

Hmm. I should check my emails.

Chunderbunny · 7 Mar 2006, 01:27

University should be teaching you the skills you need to educate yourself. Certainly by your final year you should be able to do this, if not earlier.

Belgarath The Sorcerer · 7 Mar 2006, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunderbunny

University should be teaching you the skills you need to educate yourself. Certainly by your final year you should be able to do this, if not earlier.

You are missing my point about this whole situation, clearly you've not read and comprehended my posts unlike other people in this thread. To recap in a way that you might understand, I am more concerned that this strike action might mean that i do not graduate on time. Obviously I'm hoping that things will be resolved by then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dace

Surely your (horrendous) looks would have more of an impact?

That's about what I expected from you, no more, no less. Dace you at times display a frightening lack of intelligence and a lack of any ability to think beyond petty one liners, often repeating tired clichés about things that no longer have any relavence.

Dace · 7 Mar 2006, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer

That's about what I expected from you, no more, no less. Dace you at times display a frightening lack of intelligence and a lack of any ability to think beyond petty one liners, often repeating tired clichés about things that no longer have any relavence.

Shut it fatty!

coffee- · 7 Mar 2006, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dace

Shut it fatty!

I smiled.

Phalon · 7 Mar 2006, 00:29

Unaffected! Though Physiology at 9 and Histopathology (strange amalgamation ahoy!) at 10 are unlikely to be attended.

Blastoderm · 7 Mar 2006, 00:50

Sadly none of my lecturers and tutors at my university are part of those unions.

Nondescript Human · 7 Mar 2006, 01:15

Everything is cancelled apart from my group research seminar, since it's just students.

pig · 7 Mar 2006, 02:52

hrmm was just reading the bbc news and it came up with this

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC

The employers say figures from the Office for National Statistics on hours and earnings show academics earned an average of £40,657 in 2004-05, compared with averages of £28,210 for all employees and £36,894 for all professional staff.

The unions have reacted to this furiously.

They said the most recent figures from the Higher Education Statistics Agency - for the previous year - showed that in only 10 out of 170 institutions did academic staff earn an average of more than £40,000.

The overall average, they said, was actually £35,773.

Now the two disputed figures are 40k and 35k which lets face it either figure isnt bad at all. I thought academics were payed far less infact.

Yahwe · 7 Mar 2006, 02:57

piglet even you will one day earn more than 35k

and why will you do so?

because cleverer men than you have chosen to go on, get MA's and Doctorates in order to then teach you

Only the basest fool questions academic salaries.

Assuming (even for a moment) piglet that you were bright enough to get a doctorate. You would then expect more money wouldn't you?

NOT LESS

P.S. It is disgraceful that academics earn less than tube drivers. isn't it?

Dante Hicks · 7 Mar 2006, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

P.S. It is disgraceful that academics earn less than tube drivers. isn't it?

Not really, when one considers the hours / type of work involved. Unless that was your point.

p.s. I'm not sure they do anyway - at least not by much. I can't find statistics on London academic average but I know at LSE/Imperial/UCL/Kings the average is over £38k. I doubt a tube driver could earn more than that without doing over-time or anti-social shifts or what-not.

Nodrog · 7 Mar 2006, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Not really, when one considers the hours / type of work involved. Unless that was your point.

Academics tend to work long hours, especially postdocs who are trying to make a name for themselves. The work is also far more difficult than that at most jobs, commie fetishism for manual labour aside.

Dante Hicks · 7 Mar 2006, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Academics tend to work long hours, especially postdocs who are trying to make a name for themselves.

I've not got any stats to hands, but I'd imagine academics get more holidays than most jobs, they rarely have to work nights or weekends and they do work they would (I imagine) find interesting in a generally pleasant environment. Obviously they may choose to do marking / extra work whenever, but that seems to be a different matter. My working week is 36 hours. I sometimes choose to work weekends and evenings to do work that interests me (or "to make a name for myself") but that hardly means my core hours are any longer than 36 hours. My manager does a fifty/sixty hour week most weeks but that doesn't mean I feel particularly sorry for him.

Quote:

The work is also far more difficult than that at most jobs, commie fetishism for manual labour aside.

I'm not sure what manual labour has to do with anything but OK.

Anyway, there hardly seems to be a shortage of aspiring academics so one presumes there is an element of supply and demand in this.

This is not to say I want academics to be paid any less - as I've implied earlier I support this action. However, I don't find it particularly meaningful to make simplistic comparisons to entirely different fields (especially when such comparisons are probably factually flawed anyway).

Yahwe · 7 Mar 2006, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I've not got any stats to hands, but I'd imagine academics get more holidays than most jobs, they rarely have to work nights or weekends and they do work they would (I imagine) find interesting in a generally pleasant environment. Obviously they may choose to do marking / extra work whenever, but that seems to be a different matter.

you could have just said that you didn't understand what it is that an academic does.

The work of an academic falls into broadly 3 categories:
1) Teaching: lectures and supervisions
2) Administration: faculty and university meetings
3) Research: for writing academic articles and publishing books.

All three functions must be observed. This leads to a disjointed lifestyle without clearly set '9 to 5' 5 day a week working patterns.

I hope this brief lesson will prevent you posting more rubbish.

Nodrog · 7 Mar 2006, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I've not got any stats to hands, but I'd imagine academics get more holidays than most jobs

Not really. Theres no teaching duties in the summer for instance, but if they dont spend the time doing intensive research and writing papers, their career is going to suffer.

Quote:

they rarely have to work nights or weekends

Nor do most other jobs; noone is saying they work as hard as investment bankers for instance. But youre still probably looking at a 40 hour week minimum.

Quote:

Obviously they may choose to do marking / extra work whenever, but that seems to be a different matter.

We're talking about university level academics here, not high school teachers...

Anyway, it all depends on whether you want talented researchers working at UK unis (and I dont think the answer here is an obvious 'yes'). Big American universities pay far more than the UK state system, hence most of the worlds best academics end up working there. If this isnt a problem, then continuing to pay academics far far less than they could earn in industry isnt a terrible idea.

Radical Edward · 8 Mar 2006, 14:51

I can only provide anecdotal evidence here but here goes,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I've not got any stats to hands, but I'd imagine academics get more holidays than most jobs,

26 days per year for me.

Quote:

they rarely have to work nights or weekends

I do nights and weekends every week.

Quote:

and they do work they would (I imagine) find interesting in a generally pleasant environment.

not always. a good percentage of my time involves me going "oh fcking hell, why isn't this working"

Quote:

Obviously they may choose to do marking / extra work whenever, but that seems to be a different matter.

well alot of it isn't choice. Most universities require staff to spend a certain amount of time teaching, though admittedly it is relatively flexible and you can shuffle it between terms. Also things like project proposals mean alot of extra work convincing a bunch of bureaucrats to surrender money, papers seminars and conferences have deadlines to meet and so on.

Radical Edward · 7 Mar 2006, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

P.S. It is disgraceful that academics earn less than tube drivers. isn't it?

But academics don't have to stay up all night working and hang around people who smell of sweat/mcdonalds/beer and vomit.

Ste · 7 Mar 2006, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

But academics don't have to stay up all night working and hang around people who smell of sweat/mcdonalds/beer and vomit.

when was the last time you met a student?