Alliance's Responsibility

[Tomkat]

After reading that comedy thread about cheaters from an alliance, it got me thinking.

The phrasing from that thread was "It has been suggested along with some very limited intel that <alliance> have been using remote access software to run their Planetarion round."

Now the thing that I wondered about was, "why is it that alliance?". Surely it's the players using the software. It isn't the HC doling out a program and a few instructions on how to use it (and then if you need any help don't hesitate to call!).

I'm pretty sure that most alliances will have at least one or two cheaters in. With 65 players in a competitive game, it's highly likely.

But how much responsibility should the alliance hold for its members? Branding a whole alliance as cheaters, because of a select few, is completely ridiculous (yet some people still seem to do it).

I tried to use a few analogies.

If you view the alliance as the parents, responsible for the player (their child), then it might be different. Say the cheating was "taking drugs". Then the parents wouldn't go to the police, would they? (not in most cases, anyway). They'd have a sit down with the child, tell them to stop doing it, and hope that they've got through to them. If eventually the police DID catch them (the multihunters) then it's the child's fault.

If you view the alliance as a coach in a team, responsible for the player (perhaps more accurate as it's a competitive game and the coach has an interest in their performance). A form of cheating might be to take some performance enhancing drugs. The coach OFTEN wouldn't report this, if they happened to find out. They'd simply, again, have a word with the player and tell them to stop being bloody stupid and to train properly. Hopefulyl this would get through to the player. If the officials DID catch them (multihunters) then it's the player's fault, not the coach's.

So where DO alliances stand? If you suspect a player is cheating, do you have a word with them and tell them to stop? Or do you report them straight away to the multihunters? Or do you turn a blind eye to it?

Personally I think talking to the player first would be the best option - let them know that if they ARE caught, they won't be allowed back in the alliance (etc).

I am curious though, especially with the supposed tainted reputations of some alliances for simply not being aware of the actions of their members. A lot of PA Politics is publicity these days, and being caught with your members being naughty right under your nose is apparently "your fault" (or so AD says!).

[Nadar]

I certainly don't follow your parent and coach models. I've reported a couple of players in my alliance (and some not in alliance) for cheating and some of them were close PA-friends too. My tolerance to cheating is quite close to zero.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

After reading that comedy thread about cheaters from an alliance, it got me thinking.

The phrasing from that thread was "It has been suggested along with some very limited intel that <alliance> have been using remote access software to run their Planetarion round."

Now the thing that I wondered about was, "why is it that alliance?". Surely it's the players using the software. It isn't the HC doling out a program and a few instructions on how to use it (and then if you need any help don't hesitate to call!).

I'm pretty sure that most alliances will have at least one or two cheaters in. With 65 players in a competitive game, it's highly likely.

But how much responsibility should the alliance hold for its members? Branding a whole alliance as cheaters, because of a select few, is completely ridiculous (yet some people still seem to do it).

I tried to use a few analogies.

If you view the alliance as the parents, responsible for the player (their child), then it might be different. Say the cheating was "taking drugs". Then the parents wouldn't go to the police, would they? (not in most cases, anyway). They'd have a sit down with the child, tell them to stop doing it, and hope that they've got through to them. If eventually the police DID catch them (the multihunters) then it's the child's fault.

If you view the alliance as a coach in a team, responsible for the player (perhaps more accurate as it's a competitive game and the coach has an interest in their performance). A form of cheating might be to take some performance enhancing drugs. The coach OFTEN wouldn't report this, if they happened to find out. They'd simply, again, have a word with the player and tell them to stop being bloody stupid and to train properly. Hopefulyl this would get through to the player. If the officials DID catch them (multihunters) then it's the player's fault, not the coach's.

So where DO alliances stand? If you suspect a player is cheating, do you have a word with them and tell them to stop? Or do you report them straight away to the multihunters? Or do you turn a blind eye to it?

Personally I think talking to the player first would be the best option - let them know that if they ARE caught, they won't be allowed back in the alliance (etc).

I am curious though, especially with the supposed tainted reputations of some alliances for simply not being aware of the actions of their members. A lot of PA Politics is publicity these days, and being caught with your members being naughty right under your nose is apparently "your fault" (or so AD says!).

Well, I agree to a great extent. I think accusing someone for cheating just because they are bigger or better trained than you isnt exactly the right thing to do. I've seen alot of cool alliances playing very good and if that was to be the excuse every time they did a good round, all PA players would be cheaters I guess.

What fails to impress me with this cheating accusations is that eXilition have been around for 3 rounds (on and off) and no-one has been able to provide proof to the cheating accusations makes me laugh and feel that there is no basis in the accusations based on what's happend in the three rounds.

The question I asked myself in the end was this: If this cheating had been going on, and with all the people coming and going from the said alliance, wouldnt any of theese come forward with proofs of this extensive cheating..

[teknik]

An alliance interviews (and in some cases gives trial periods etc) to its members, so they hold some of the responsibility if they let a bad apple slip through the net, but most of the fault is with the individual player.
but its not surprising people blame the alliance really is it? people see you are a student and think you are lazy, people see you are a muslim and think you're a suicide bomber etc.

[Nadar]

teknik, you really believe it's possible to detect if someone who's applying is a cheater or will cheat? I certainly don't. Maybe face to face, but not in written form.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by teknik

but its not surprising people blame the alliance really is it? people see you are a student and think you are lazy, people see you are a muslim and think you're a suicide bomber etc.

Yeah but just because stereotypes occur doesn't make them right

For instance this latest case with elviz - are the alliances he was in going to be accused of harbouring cheaters because he's been closed? It isn't really fair (also which alliance would take the flak?!).

I can't realistically see an alliance promoting cheating, more turning a blind eye if they suspect it occurring. Yet a lot of the community still seem intent on branding some alliances as a whole, based on a few bad apples.

[Ziw]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

So where DO alliances stand? If you suspect a player is cheating, do you have a word with them and tell them to stop? Or do you report them straight away to the multihunters? Or do you turn a blind eye to it?

Not that it matters, but Insomnia used to stand against cheaters/cheating.
Surely a chat is taken was taken about the induvidual, but after a denial, ofcourse it was reported and the member kicked.
Ofcourse getting people to actually stop cheating would be the best for the game, the comunity, and so on, but cheaters do ruin the game in way to many ways. (Not only the damn login questions wich is quite f***ing imposible while drunkt ;p)
I'd say turning a blind eye to is awfully bad, I'l ratter lose with players I like and respect than play with cheaters.

-Former InS HC.

[teknik]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Yeah but just because stereotypes occur doesn't make them right

Your crusade to change the world for the better is very noble, but maybe AD isn't the best place to start?

[Mek]

we kicked one of our good players and DC's last round for suspected cheating and we have shopped a few others in our time. once a player in our employ gets closed for cheating it leaves a bad mark against our reputation aswell as that of the cheater.

Mek
InSomnia HC

[teknik]

Originally Posted by Nadar

teknik, you really believe it's possible to detect if someone who's applying is a cheater or will cheat? I certainly don't. Maybe face to face, but not in written form.

obviously not in every case, but there are plenty of people on the internet you can talk to for 5 mins and realise you don't want to be associated with them in any way.

[Ziw]

Mek... Darling, you know I win the InS drunkest HC competition, there's really no need to have a competition at all
And yes we did, as I hope it's done in other ally's aswell, cheating is baaaaaad, m'kay? ;D

And back to the topic a bit, ally's schould try to take this serius and get wrid of cheating/cheaters as it would ruin your ally's rep, the game; and it surly ain't any honnor in a good rank wich is there due cheating. Well, hopefully this is done in ally's and so on...

[jt25man]

I've reported cheaters in the past, and even kicked a few. I tell my guys that I don't condone cheating of any form. I just think if you have to resort to cheating on an online game, you really need to get a life and stop playing.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by jt25man

I've reported cheaters in the past, and even kicked a few. I tell my guys that I don't condone cheating of any form. I just think if you have to resort to cheating on an online game, you really need to get a life and stop playing.

What if you have no life like Exi players?

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Ziw

I'd say turning a blind eye to is awfully bad, I'l ratter lose with players I like and respect than play with cheaters.

Sure you would.

I don't mind admitting that if I was HC of an alliance who was winning, and I suspected that a significant proportion of my alliance was cheating, I'd probably ignore it.

If they got closed, then I'd go up in arms and proclaim "it was only a few!" and "i disapprove of this!" but if I had the choice of pretending I don't suspect anything and winning, than investigating it, kicking members and losing.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Sure you would.

I don't mind admitting that if I was HC of an alliance who was winning, and I suspected that a significant proportion of my alliance was cheating, I'd probably ignore it.

If they got closed, then I'd go up in arms and proclaim "it was only a few!" and "i disapprove of this!" but if I had the choice of pretending I don't suspect anything and winning, than investigating it, kicking members and losing.

A win is a win. Though its up to others to spot foulplay within

[Alki]

tomkat asked me to vnc his computer*

















































*because he thought it was a cure for cancer lolz

[Mighteh]

edit on the parent analogy:
Say, alliance, is parents. Kid is a player, and "cheating" is "selling drugs"
Then kid starts to make quardiple the money from selling drugs then parents combined. Parent, ofcourse, benefit from it, as their kid is a devoted son/daughter (just son ? do we still have girls who play PA and cheat? ) and buys them anything, pays their mortgage, etc. Then they find out he sells drugs. what do they do ? report him to police ? talk to him saying its a nono ? ignore it ? i say that would be a better analogy