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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 16:29   #1
Devlin
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Exclamation Allow ally fleet to run and hide

Please give us an option to set ally fleet to fight or run and hide, like we can with base fleet. If you go to sleep for 8 or 9 hours and get fi/co incs the tick after you lay down, your ally fleet will get decimated. This discourages some people from setting up an ally fleet at all. This is even more pronounced during the Christmas round, because if you don't check PA every 90 minutes you risk losing your ships. Some top cluster alliances have less than 5 ally fleets enabled because of this.

I'd prefer an option to choose run or fight, but if that overcomplicates things by requiring the info to be displayed to DCs like the status of your base fleet, I would rather it always be hidden rather than always fight.
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 16:38   #2
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

+1

Also, maybe its possible to get some kind of (small) reward for setting allyfleet at all. Or at least some encouragement/reminder to do it?
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 16:46   #3
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

+1 for idletarion
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 17:13   #4
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by Devlin View Post
Some top cluster alliances have less than 5 ally fleets enabled because of this.
Sounds fine to me. If you want to win, you have to play. Def planets suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekker View Post
Also, maybe its possible to get some kind of (small) reward for setting allyfleet at all.
You get XP for sending def fleets, and preserve the roids of your alliance.
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 17:44   #5
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by Devlin View Post
Please give us an option to set ally fleet to fight or run and hide, like we can with base fleet. If you go to sleep for 8 or 9 hours and get fi/co incs the tick after you lay down, your ally fleet will get decimated. This discourages some people from setting up an ally fleet at all. This is even more pronounced during the Christmas round, because if you don't check PA every 90 minutes you risk losing your ships. Some top cluster alliances have less than 5 ally fleets enabled because of this.

I'd prefer an option to choose run or fight, but if that overcomplicates things by requiring the info to be displayed to DCs like the status of your base fleet, I would rather it always be hidden rather than always fight.
An ally set fleet should count as engaged and therefore not take part in combat. Like if you have ships pled to attack/def when incs land.

Issue solved then
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 17:54   #6
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Sounds fine to me. If you want to win, you have to play. Def planets suck.
Then why have AFs at all? Get rid of them. (Not being sarcastic at all)


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An ally set fleet should count as engaged and therefore not take part in combat. Like if you have ships pled to attack/def when incs land.

Issue solved then
I'm fine with this implementation.
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 18:08   #7
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Sounds fine to me. If you want to win, you have to play. Def planets suck.


You get XP for sending def fleets, and preserve the roids of your alliance.
The reason a lot of semi-actives still play is because it is family friendly. If you wanna stop facilitating idle play you gotta be ready to accept a (much) smaller playerbase. Hardcore players, even with the idle-friendly features, will still benefit from being very active in comparison to semi-active play.

Also, I am aware of XP for defence and the ability to preserve roids for the Alliance. Still it wouldn't hurt to get some encouragement for people actually setting the fleet, maybe through quests.
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 18:47   #8
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

That's too much baby sitting imo Dekker. If preserving your alliance roids and getting xp isn't enough incentive for you to remind you of setting one, then it should be down to the alliance to take the measure they see fit(ie not send defense to a member who never set a fleet). There's just so much that can be implemented before it gets ridiculous.
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 22:01   #9
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by Devlin View Post
Then why have AFs at all? Get rid of them. (Not being sarcastic at all)
I'm not quite ready to go as far as advocating the removal of the alliance defense fleet, but I'll freely admit to feeling more and more uncomfortable with the style of play they've introduced, with tags worth of players who do nothing but send (or set) defense fleets. I'm worried about how this pressures alliance HCs to create larger and larger alliances in order to compete. This enlargement of alliances far beyond the tag limit has been forcing more and more players into fewer and fewer alliances, spread among 2 tags.

Some alliances have already reached 100 players, and the trend is upwards. Alliances of 150 players might have been fine when the game had thousands of active players, but a game of 750 players simply cannot support such large tags. If forging a deal with 2 other alliances already secures 40% of the entire playerbase to your cause, there's a problem. You can't have fluid politics in a universe where just 1 or 2 deals joins such large portions of the player base together. Gangbangs are annoying, but at least you can try breaking it apart to ease the pressure on your alliance. Now imagine the block gangbanging you consists of 3 tags that are all part of the same alliance.


I admit, this is a much broader discussion than what this topic is about, but I hope I've outlined some of my concerns, and my reasons for (weakly) opposing this seemingly innocuous suggestion.
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Unread 11 Dec 2017, 22:43   #10
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

The alliance def fleets give you something (you can def while sleeping) so it makes sense for there to be a cost (they're vulnerable to attack). If you aren't there to check and can't/won't be woken by someone who is online, a DC can move that fleet for you.

I accept that this is less useful with 15 min ticks, but in a normal round you get nearly 8 hours to react at a minimum after the incs appear.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 01:04   #11
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

I've only seen this a problem, personally, once. Much rum and over-sleeping was involved.

If anything, treat it like a prelaunched fleet or don't change anything. Def priorities can change daily, so you have to log in and move 'anti co' because now HC's want 'anti-cr' for ally fleet or something. Maybe a quest ladder could be added for assigning and changing ally fleets over x amount of ticks...

Any sort of in-game incentive to do so is easily circumvented by putting 1 ship in ally fleet and leaving it there all round.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 02:14   #12
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

Very few people sleep 10 hours each night, this issue is non-existing.
Most alliances will use your fleet first if you request it, or launch it to make sure it does not die at base.

I think we had a thread a few years ago suggesting to remove "run'n'hide" for base, to encourage a more active or hands on playstyle.
This alliance defence fleet is bad enough allready, and has pushed the game to more gangtarion than before. I would be opting for removing the feature entirely than making it better.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 02:26   #13
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

I have no problems PL fakde def +12 on fleets, getting drunk, and sleeping in.

Simply discussing the topic(s) in an open forum.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 04:30   #14
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Very few people sleep 10 hours each night, this issue is non-existing.
Most alliances will use your fleet first if you request it, or launch it to make sure it does not die at base.

I think we had a thread a few years ago suggesting to remove "run'n'hide" for base, to encourage a more active or hands on playstyle.
This alliance defence fleet is bad enough allready, and has pushed the game to more gangtarion than before. I would be opting for removing the feature entirely than making it better.
You don't need to sleep 10 hours to risk losing ships, only 8. I sleep 8-10 hours regularly, especially since I only sleep 4 or 5 times a week. And what about people like my gf that work 16 hours a day 3 times a week?
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 05:08   #15
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by Devlin View Post
You don't need to sleep 10 hours to risk losing ships, only 8. I sleep 8-10 hours regularly, especially since I only sleep 4 or 5 times a week. And what about people like my gf that work 16 hours a day 3 times a week?
Then i dont think this is the right game for you.

If you keep crashing your fleet you should consider asking your HCs if you can get an exception for setting allie fleet, or consider finding a tag able to meet you and your GFs special needs.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 09:03   #16
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Then i dont think this is the right game for you.

If you keep crashing your fleet you should consider asking your HCs if you can get an exception for setting allie fleet, or consider finding a tag able to meet you and your GFs special needs.
I tend to do ok. I finished t50 last round and didn't lose almost any ships. I'm more concerned with making the game more accommodating to new players that would laugh at the idea of having to wake up to play a game in the middle of the night.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 17:01   #17
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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I tend to do ok. I finished t50 last round and didn't lose almost any ships. I'm more concerned with making the game more accommodating to new players that would laugh at the idea of having to wake up to play a game in the middle of the night.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 17:49   #18
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

If you have incs and an alliance def fleet at base, surely somebody can launch your fleet for you if you're going to lose it?
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 19:30   #19
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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If you have incs and an alliance def fleet at base, surely somebody can launch your fleet for you if you're going to lose it?
If there is spare launch slots
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 20:08   #20
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by t3k View Post
If you have incs and an alliance def fleet at base, surely somebody can launch your fleet for you if you're going to lose it?
Easier said than done when there's 100 incs. DCs barely have enough time to calc each call.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 22:07   #21
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

Fair points.
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Unread 12 Dec 2017, 22:36   #22
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

But then surely a dc can call you to run said fleet...

imo if your losing an af often enough to cry about it then your personally doing something wrong and only have yourself to blame
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Unread 13 Dec 2017, 20:40   #23
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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But then surely a dc can call you to run said fleet...

imo if your losing an af often enough to cry about it then your personally doing something wrong and only have yourself to blame
People still wake up for PA post-2006? lol losers.

Seriously though, if my girlfriend heard my phone ring to wake me up to play a game, I'd no longer have a girlfriend. We're not kids anymore. :P
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Unread 13 Dec 2017, 22:01   #24
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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People still wake up for PA post-2006? lol losers.

Seriously though, if my girlfriend heard my phone ring to wake me up to play a game, I'd no longer have a girlfriend. We're not kids anymore. :P
Then stop treating her like your mum
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Unread 14 Dec 2017, 11:48   #25
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

I just don't understand why we have prelaunch, queues, ally fleets, base run and hide, etc all so we don't have to wake up at night to play PA but people are against an ally fleet run and hide option. Either accept that PA is no longer the hardcore nolifer game it once was, or remove prelaunch, queue, af, and reimplement attacks showing up the second they're launched so you have to launch at xx59 to make the game the hardcore thing everyone seems to want. Pick one. :P
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Unread 14 Dec 2017, 12:57   #26
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

Fallacy of the excluded middle.
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Unread 14 Dec 2017, 23:06   #27
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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I just don't understand why we have prelaunch, queues, ally fleets, base run and hide, etc all so we don't have to wake up at night to play PA but people are against an ally fleet run and hide option. Either accept that PA is no longer the hardcore nolifer game it once was, or remove prelaunch, queue, af, and reimplement attacks showing up the second they're launched so you have to launch at xx59 to make the game the hardcore thing everyone seems to want. Pick one. :P
If you had been paying attention you would prolly have noticed the discussioms on the AF as a whole, and the discussions on removing run & hide for base fleet.
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Unread 15 Dec 2017, 08:36   #28
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

Unless there's some super-secret forum I don't have access to, there have been no discussions about removing run & hide for the base fleet.
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Unread 15 Dec 2017, 16:22   #29
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Unless there's some super-secret forum I don't have access to, there have been no discussions about removing run & hide for the base fleet.
Dont you have access the BI forum? (Butchers Imaginarium)
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Unread 16 Dec 2017, 09:23   #30
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Unless there's some super-secret forum I don't have access to, there have been no discussions about removing run & hide for the base fleet.
Maybe you should browse all old threads, id be surprised if you dont find any post concerning the run & hide feature.
Im not sure who were wanting to remove it, but the arguments was that it would make the game less idling friendly.
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Unread 16 Dec 2017, 16:49   #31
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

I invite you to find four posts ("discussions", plural, and each discussion requires at least 2 posts) about removing the run and hide feature to support your claim. Not that it's relevant, because if you find a couple, I'll just point out it's a three year old thread with 4 reponses that no one cares about or remembers.

Maybe you'll respond by saying you didn't say recently, at which point someone might accuse someone else of acting like a pedantic ****, the posts will all be deleted, and we'll move on to more useful conversations.

So how about you save us both the time, hm?
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 16 Dec 2017 at 16:56.
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Unread 16 Dec 2017, 21:15   #32
Devlin
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I invite you to find four posts ("discussions", plural, and each discussion requires at least 2 posts) about removing the run and hide feature to support your claim. Not that it's relevant, because if you find a couple, I'll just point out it's a three year old thread with 4 reponses that no one cares about or remembers.

Maybe you'll respond by saying you didn't say recently, at which point someone might accuse someone else of acting like a pedantic ****, the posts will all be deleted, and we'll move on to more useful conversations.

So how about you save us both the time, hm?
You, sir, win all the internets for today.
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Unread 20 Dec 2017, 19:03   #33
BloodyButcher
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Re: Allow ally fleet to run and hide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I invite you to find four posts ("discussions", plural, and each discussion requires at least 2 posts) about removing the run and hide feature to support your claim. Not that it's relevant, because if you find a couple, I'll just point out it's a three year old thread with 4 reponses that no one cares about or remembers.

Maybe you'll respond by saying you didn't say recently, at which point someone might accuse someone else of acting like a pedantic ****, the posts will all be deleted, and we'll move on to more useful conversations.

So how about you save us both the time, hm?

You can go find those posts yourself if you dont belive it ever accuring.
It has been discussed, wether it was on the forum or in some IRC channel might be a mix up by me.
But im 100% sure of someone bringing up the issue with having "idle planets" using run & hide fleet, and that they disliked that so few battles ever accured in PA now days.
Im pretty sure that there is very few in PA that has as good memory as i do, but maybe i could be wrong for once.

Ive said it before, but the margins from #1-5 can be so small, that its no longer a war game where ships fight other ships, its all about who can trade roids the most efficiently.
Battle reports that occured where the attack would land just because the opposition side is losing more than the attackers rarely happend anymore.
Wich i found as one of the magical things of old PA that is more or less completely gone now days in the PA that has developed into a PA where "everyone should have a chance at winning".

The alliance defence fleet has had a very negatively effect on alliance politics and how the game can be played as a "solo player" or even for a small tag. Either you are attacking someone who is being gangbanged, or its no point attacking at all.
Ive claimed before that PA isnt a game for the solo player, but even for a 30 man tag it will be IMPOSSIBOLE more or less, to land another 30 man tag just because they will always have 30 defence fleets avaible to counter whatever you are able to send at them(wich is usualy maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the alliance members attack fleets)
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