Planetarion Forums

Snurx · 29 Feb 2004, 10:30

if god is almighty, can god create a stone that is to heavy for it to lift?

The General8 · 29 Feb 2004, 10:38

semi old

Snurx · 29 Feb 2004, 10:39

semi old? The question is older then old itself, it makes Dead_Meat look young. But, i've still to get a real answer to it

Dante Hicks · 29 Feb 2004, 12:04

The only counter-argument I've heard is that the question is just word play and God can transcend our pathetic level of understanding.

Baron Morte · 29 Feb 2004, 17:55

These bloody creationists.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 17:56

i suppose that he could make a pebble to heavy for it to lift if he wanted to..

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 17:57

it depends on what he wants to be able to do.

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 17:58

Ahahahahahaha

Structural Integrity · 29 Feb 2004, 18:01

Yes...

If he really wanted to he could make a stone that he can't lift...
If he really wants to lift if after he created it, he could...

It's all about will... if he wants to, he can... if he wants something else contradicting his previous will, he can do that too...

I am teh win!!! I beat the evolutionists!!!

I don't believe really in a god BTW.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:03

Quote:

I am teh win!!! I beat the evolutionists!!!

No :-/

Because here we are assuming that a god really did create a rock.

not that that actually happened.

Dante Hicks · 29 Feb 2004, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Structural Integrity

If he really wanted to he could make a stone that he can't lift...
If he really wants to lift if after he created it, he could....

It's fairly easy to word the question so it's something like "Could he create a rock so heavy that he could never ever ever lift it?" (if he then lifted it, is earlier challenge has failed and he isn't omnipotent).

Structural Integrity · 29 Feb 2004, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

No :-/

Because here we are assuming that a god really did create a rock.

not that that actually happened.

So... he created this rock... and he can't lift if because he wanted it to be too heavy for him...
Then tomorrow, he feels like lifting the rock he couldn't lift yesterday, and he just lifts it, because he can do anything he wants.

I don't get your point.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:07

my answere still would have been, it depends on what he wanted to do. And an important not. It doesnt say he lifted it, but that it lifted it. Just incase its something screwwy.

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:09

There's nothing like watching people who both don't understand the problem argue.

Structural Integrity · 29 Feb 2004, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

It's fairly easy to word the question so it's something like "Could he create a rock so heavy that he could never ever ever lift it?" (if he then lifted it, is earlier challenge has failed and he isn't omnipotent).

You damn evolutionist!!

I'm sure the creationists can come up with something that makes the "never ever" part not apply to god. I can't think of it right now.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:10

Quote:

So... he created this rock... and he can't lift if because he wanted it to be too heavy for him...
Then tomorrow, he feels like lifting the rock he couldn't lift yesterday, and he just lifts it, because he can do anything he wants.

exactly.

That post was in regards to creationists winning. I was saying no.. not really, because for use to ask the question, we must have already agreed that god can create rocks.

But being that i dont think a god can create rocks, or whatever.. this conversation has no bearing on whether creationist or evolutionists win or loose because its taken soley from a creationist perspective.

BTW, on a side note. We already proved evolution. so i dont know what the creationists are going on about.

Dante Hicks · 29 Feb 2004, 18:12

What the hell has this got to do with evolution or creationism?

Structural Integrity · 29 Feb 2004, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

What the hell has this got to do with evolution or creationism?

I don't know... I like words with lots of letters in them.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:14

IF he wants to create a rock that he can never ever lift, then he can do it. If he doesnt want to, then he wont. God would not want to change is mind.

But here is the problem i have. If god is omnipotent, how in the hell did he let satan almost take him over. He must be a very-very arrogent being to wait until the last minute to smite. I do not approve of that sort of behavior. And then, on top of that, he's letting his children get corrupted by evil. Sure children have free will, but arnt you supposed to protect them? Try being charged with neglect of a five year old, and then saying, it was their free will. How well will that work.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:15

Quote:

Yes...

If he really wanted to he could make a stone that he can't lift...
If he really wants to lift if after he created it, he could...

It's all about will... if he wants to, he can... if he wants something else contradicting his previous will, he can do that too...

I am teh win!!! I beat the evolutionists!!!

I don't believe really in a god BTW.

whether he is serious are not, thats what it has to do with it

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

If god is omnipotent, how in the hell did he let satan almost take him over.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lucifer lose the war in heaven pretty decisively?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

And then, on top of that, he's letting his children get corrupted by evil. Sure children have free will, but arnt you supposed to protect them?

sums up my reaction to this line, pretty much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Try being charged with neglect of a five year old, and then saying, it was their free will. How well will that work.

So what your saying is that god should be legally required by the state to keep everyone 'good'?

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:27

Quote:

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lucifer lose the war in heaven pretty decisively?
what your saying is that god should be legally required by the state to keep everyone 'good'

Not at first, according to Paradice Lost... a work of fiction, but still a damn good peice.

Yes, if god is going to claim that he is Omnipotent and of pure good.

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Not at first, according to Paradice Lost... a work of fiction, but still a damn good peice.

Milton was a college man, and it's best not to rely on epic poetry, you know. Especially when quite a lot of it was 'made up' (as it were) by Milton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Yes, if god is going to claim that he is Omnipotent and of pure good.

Where did god claim that?

Ragnarak · 29 Feb 2004, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Not at first, according to Paradice Lost

I am going to be rollyloffling all night now

Damn you

Billy No Mates · 29 Feb 2004, 18:36

At what point does a stone become a rock?

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:37

Are paradice some form of D20?

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:37

when god says so.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:38

paradise :-/ Fine

I

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

when god says so.

Book? Chapter? Verse?

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:39

and he claimed that in the bible. not to menchion the fact that it is generally accepted as being true. STFU (as in shut the F@#$ up)

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:39

errr, i was answering "when does a stone become a rock"

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:41

Ok, then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

and he claimed that in the bible. not to menchion the fact that it is generally accepted as being true. STFU (as in shut the F@#$ up)

Book? Chapter? Verse?

'Hey, someone's arguing with me! Rather than actually make any statements that are based on fact, I'll just swear at him and hope he goes away!'

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:46

Quote:

'Hey, someone's arguing with me! Rather than actually make any statements that are based on fact, I'll just swear at him and hope he goes away!'

indeed

Ofcourse, i could just pick at his spelling.. like you do, right m8?

here you go for the rest of that

The Bible, John chapter 21 verse 17b, NLT

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:49

or

http://www.request.org.uk/main/basics/god/God04.htm

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:50

He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

(King James, that is)

How does that help?

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

or

http://www.request.org.uk/main/basics/god/God04.htm

I don't see anything there that helps either. All it said that's vaguely relevent is that god loves and god forgives. The latter is kind of impossible if you stop people doing anything wrong.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 18:55

it also says::

Where it says Omnicence
"I can never escape from your Spirit! I can never get away from your presence!"
"Lord, you know everything."
"With God everything is possible."
"God alone has all wisdom and power."

Where it says goodness

"O Lord, you are so good, so ready to forgive, so full of unfailing love for all who ask your aid."
"Anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love."
"You are a God of forgiveness, gracious and merciful, slow to become angry and full of unfailing love and mercy."

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 19:11

I'm not arguing about the omnipotence. I'm arguing with the 'god is pure good'. Which the quotes don't support. Just that he loves all, and has an infinite capacity to forgive.

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 19:13

"O Lord, you are so good,"

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

"O Lord, you are so good,"

Which is equal to pure good, how?

Snurx · 29 Feb 2004, 19:18

The answers to my question, the ones that i found in this thread, was very lacking.

If it (God, that is), creates a stone that is so heavy that it can't lift it, then how can it lift it later? Then, its original "omnipotence" is gone, beacause it could lift the stone, rite?

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 19:19

if you are saying it is god. But it could be another creature

Snurx · 29 Feb 2004, 19:37

In this question, it is god.

MrL_JaKiri · 29 Feb 2004, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

if you are saying it is god. But it could be another creature

That's like replying 'Don't worry, tomcats can't get pregnant' to someone saying 'I'm worried that my bitch may get impregnated'

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 20:41

its nothing like that

Qdeathstar · 29 Feb 2004, 20:42

its like saying Im worried that it is pregnat

or dont worry, it cant get impregnated

Qdeathstar · 1 Mar 2004, 13:59

i dont even care anymore....

Billy No Mates · 1 Mar 2004, 14:00

You mean at some point you did?? :eek:

MrL_JaKiri · 1 Mar 2004, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

i dont even care anymore....

Damn youth of today.

Qdeathstar · 1 Mar 2004, 14:05

Not about this thread particulary. But i thought it was interesting. Now its not. This thread has managed, SINGLE HANDIDLY to take all fun in the forums and piss it down a 1/2 inch 3ft long pipe. And im sitting downpipe of it GETTING PISSED ON by the very thread that is SO RUINING my life.

/me goes hide.