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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 10:51   #51
Ärketrollmannen
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

dda: I'm sorry but where did you get that information from?
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 21:19   #52
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

I got it from reading the police reports, as well as signed documents by Annika.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 21:53   #53
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Any links? Do I have to go to america to view it?
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 10 Jun 2005, 21:25   #54
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

I have copies of most of the documents. I would be happy to transcribe some of the reports for you. If you would tell me what you would like first, I will start with that. Do you want me to post these to this thread or is there some other place you would like this information sent?

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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 02:50   #55
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

yes, so who are you?
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 02:57   #56
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

does it matter?

do you doubt what he has said?

i don't
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 03:07   #57
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

I don't doubt it but PA GD was happily trotting along when one day in rode a stranger with no name speaking of having copies to the police reports and documents signed by 'annika'.

Im curious more than anything.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 10:01   #58
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
do you doubt what he has said?
Most definitely. I don't automatically trust most things I read, especially on the internet and especially from unnamed sources who pop out of no-where to write long posts with no source given until pressed. He could be someone with a high interest in the case who randomly came across this page of course (through a Google search, say - although I'm not sure if this thread had been indexed by this point) - but then why not introduce himself and give his credentials? Instead of transcribing these police reports he happens to have in his possession, why not offer to scan them? At least we could have a rough look at them to get an idea of the vague authenticity.

I'm not really that bothered either way in this instance, but as a rule I generally doubt.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 16:32   #59
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Most definitely. I don't automatically trust most things I read, especially on the internet and especially from unnamed sources who pop out of no-where to write long posts with no source given until pressed. He could be someone with a high interest in the case who randomly came across this page of course (through a Google search, say - although I'm not sure if this thread had been indexed by this point) - but then why not introduce himself and give his credentials? Instead of transcribing these police reports he happens to have in his possession, why not offer to scan them? At least we could have a rough look at them to get an idea of the vague authenticity.

I'm not really that bothered either way in this instance, but as a rule I generally doubt.
yeah i know you're paranoid.

that's why i would never for the love of god asked you that question.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:03   #60
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

I am indeed an individual who has an inrterest in the case.

I appeared to represent the District Attorney of San Joaquin County at Annika's hearing. I opposed her release on various grounds.

I am the keeper of her files for this jurisdiction within the state of California.

I did google Annika Deasy and came across a number of sites. I found the discussion interesting. It was particularly interesting to me that this is a site which seems to be primarily for role playing games. While I haven't played in a long time, I at one time played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons. I think that people who play such games tend to be above average in intelligence and more creative than average.

The reason I was looking for comments was that I have been surprised by the interest in Annika's case on the part of the Swedish government and people. I do not have any desire to change anyone's opinion about Annika or what her punishment should have been or where she should do the rest of her sentence.

I have always admired the Swedish people and am partially of Swedish ancestry myself.

What I have been interested in is the amount of accurate information which is or is not known by persons outside of the United States in regard to Ms. Deasy's situation. I am certainly willing to share the information which I have with anyone who would like to have that information.

Sadly, I am working for a governmental entity which does not provide me with a scanner. Even more sadly, I am technologicly ignorant. Even if I had a scanner at my disposal, I would not know what to do with it.

I am interested in finding out if anyone is at all interested in how the judicial system works in my part of the world and if they would like more information about Annika's situation. I don't speak or read Swedish so it is impossible to see how the press is reporting her situation in Sweden.

If anyone is turly interested in checking my credentials they could do so by writing:

Office of the District Attorney
San Joaquin County
P. O. Box 990
Stockton, CA 95201
USA

Except for stating that I believe that Annika Deasy has misrepresented her involvement in the crimes for which she has been convicted, I don't have any desire to convert others to my way of thinking, I will answer any question within my ability to answer and I am willing to transcribe what I have or if someone wishes to write to me at the above address and give me an address to which I can send copies of any requested material, I would be happy to do that.

At some point I would also like to ask some questions of someone as to how much background knowledge one needs to get involved in some of the role playing threads as they seem very interesting.

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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:15   #61
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
It was particularly interesting to me that this is a site which seems to be primarily for role playing games.


DDA

**** OFF


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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:17   #62
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Don't be mean Nusselt.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:18   #63
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

For great justice.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:24   #64
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
yeah i know you're paranoid.
I wouldn't say skepticism is the same as paranoia but OK.

This community alone has involved at least one female who turned out to be a guy, at least three instances of someone (falsely) reporting another member as dead, and at least a hundred gimmick accounts. Hell, someone said that Gayle28UK might have been a gimmick and that account had over four thousand posts! (For the record, I doubt the assertion it was/is a gimmick account, but that's another matter).

If not automatically assuming a post as true because it's reasonably well written as true makes me paranoid then I'm quite happy to be paranoid.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:29   #65
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda

I appeared to represent the District Attorney of San Joaquin County at Annika's hearing. I opposed her release on various grounds.

DDA
Out of interest, what grounds were they?
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:30   #66
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
Out of interest, what grounds were they?
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
People who use drugs are sub-human and quite possibly satan worshippers.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:34   #67
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
She has had no rules violations in prison for the past seven years.
satan worshipers can't be reformed?
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 19:49   #68
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

They can be at the stake!


PS Did you even see my edit?
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 20:08   #69
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

The lightning bolt one? yeah i did, and thought it was a good riposte, so i was er trying to avoid bringing it up



edit/

im getting pos rep for the lightning bolt!!!
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 20:13   #70
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

The primary reason is that Annika continues to minimize her role in the deaths of three human beings. It is difficult to believe in the reformation of someone that you believe is continuing to lie about her involvement and in her remorse. After she had killed Donald McKay in 1974, our system of justice gave her a second chance by putting her on probation. She repayed this kindness by being either the actual killer of two more persons or by being the leader in those killings. While in prison she has not been a model prisoner, continuing to be caught with drugs even in the prison up to several years after her incarceration and to commit other infractions until about seven years ago.

However, it is not my intention to dissuade anyone from their belief that the American criminal justice system is too harsh or that Annika should be treated differently. i am really interested in why others feel that she has been treated badly and wheter or not those opinions are in anyway based on inacurate information.

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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 20:16   #71
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

I am always happy to come across people with open minds.

Clearly, a lightning bolt is easily communicated with.

Being new to Planetarion, might I inquire as to the use of the lightning bolt? It seems so cute and cuddely.

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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 20:21   #72
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
If not automatically assuming a post as true because it's reasonably well written as true makes me paranoid then I'm quite happy to be paranoid.
Thank you for the lovely complement about my post being reasonably well written. It is always good to hear a friendly word.

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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 20:33   #73
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Her 'supporters' are probably only being led on by the tabloid press, which as you probably know has never (in any country) been known for 'fair' reporting in a case where they can pump up national outrage and increase sales. The swedish press is just acting like the australian press
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4074084.stm), the missinformation which you speak about is just a result of that.

Im not seeking to counter any of the arguments you may have made, but how has she not been remorseful or reformative enough about what happened? if nothing else, relatively constant prison violations through the years followed by seven years of no infringments would seem to suggest the opposite.

Lightningbolt is a reference to a movie made by an unknown group of roleplayers. They're basically acting out their fantasies and one chap starts throwing balls at another person shouting 'lightningboltlightningbolt' its become associated with rpers.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 20:47   #74
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

see we despise people who reoleplay

we do not consider it an indication of inteligence, rather we feel it is more likely autism.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 21:43   #75
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

YahweThat's too bad. While I have found there to be a relatively hight degree of social misfits who are drawn to any type of fantasy life, I have also found that there also seems to be a higher than average number of interesting individuals who enjoy polaying such games. For the most part they tend to be younger individuals and unfortunately as you get older, your ideas and those of your friends seem to become more predictible. That is a reason I picked Planetarion, it seemed that there were interesting ideas. Just the imaginative names that people have chosen to use in the forum seem interesting to me.DDA
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 22:02   #76
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

[quote=Nusselt]

Im not seeking to counter any of the arguments you may have made, but how has she not been remorseful or reformative enough about what happened? if nothing else, relatively constant prison violations through the years followed by seven years of no infringments would seem to suggest the opposite.

NusseltI have been involved in the criminal justice system in California for 26 years. I have dealt with murder cases exclusively for 16 years. I have attended hundreds of hearings for persons who want to get out of prison. For the most part I have opposed their release as that is my job. However, there have been some that I have recommended that I believed that they were suitable for release. In observing these individuals I have noted that the ones who truely seem to understand their crime and to have truely rehabilitated have, over a prgression of years, shown increasing insight into their situation and as a result have progressively taken more and more responsibility for their actions. Annika has progressively seemed to attempt to manipulate the press and the Swedish people to put pressure on the system. She has slowly but surely attempted to lessen her responsibility for the crimes. It is clear that she has improved her behavior in prison. She has in fact engaged in some very good works while there. But, someone who continually tries to paint herself as a victim rather than a perpetrator of a crime and that is what she has been trying to do, in my opinion, may well not be trustworthy in the way she presents herself in other areas.Remember, she presented herself iin such a sympathetic way when she killed Donald McKay. She was given a very light sentence, probation. Once free of the probation she reverted to her prior ways. People have assumed that her boyfriend was the worse of the two. However, Annika's record for criminal violence was greater than her boyfriend. I do not trust Annika Deasy. This doesn't mean that I would never change my opinion. In fact I hope it does. Annika Deasy is a very bright and articulate individual with many talents which could be used in any society. However, if she were to return to her past ways then there could well be a fourth person with various types of holes in their back.DDA
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 22:04   #77
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

the 'internet' forces us to chose nicknames.

that's hardly roleplaying.

perhaps you read too much into everything.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 22:12   #78
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

ok if you're a lawyer working in that districts da's office (oh i like dda btw, it got the point accross)

just one question

why are you posting on an internet forums when you should be working?
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 22:40   #79
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

it's a saturday today?
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 22:43   #80
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
ok if you're a lawyer working in that districts da's office (oh i like dda btw, it got the point accross)

just one question

why are you posting on an internet forums when you should be working?
couldn't we pose the same question to you mr lawyer... hmmm?
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 22:45   #81
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

not since it's quatre to 11 no we can't

besides. he's the equivalent of our CPS, clown prosecution service, so he has a desk job. as opposed to the free and easy self employed among us.
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 23:20   #82
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
the 'internet' forces us to chose nicknames.

that's hardly roleplaying.

perhaps you read too much into everything.
When I went to the website and it said I could go to the jumpgate and then there were forums for rules, for setting up games as well as general discussion and when I saw some of the same names in both places I assumed that the person or persons who had set this site up were doing so to facilitate games. The discussion however turned out to be very interesting and clearly not role playing. At least not more than anything else in life is role playing. There was certainly no disrespect meant.DDA
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 23:22   #83
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
ok if you're a lawyer working in that districts da's office (oh i like dda btw, it got the point accross)

just one question

why are you posting on an internet forums when you should be working?
Even government drudges get breaks, lunch hours and days off. Besides, the information I am getting is helpful to me in doing my job.DDA
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 23:23   #84
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

it really had better stand for 'deputy district attorney' because otherwise i'm wasting my time speaking to a nobody.

i have ties to santa clara law school btw. that's near you isn't it?

(**warning** i strongly expect that it is in fact, no where near you at all and that i have just done the english equivalent of an american saying "hey you're british? I know dave. do you know dave?")
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 23:39   #85
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

I know dave. He's a good man but slightly black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
edit/

im getting pos rep for the lightning bolt!!!
Unbelievable
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Unread 11 Jun 2005, 23:41   #86
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

that's not dave at all.. I know for fact he's pastey white with a cockney accent!
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Unread 12 Jun 2005, 00:30   #87
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

dda, you've explained very well why she is in prison for 25 years+ and having read the facts, everyone seems to be satisfied that that length is reasonable. What you haven't mentioned though is the whole 'send her back to Sweden' issue.

As Sweden want her back to continue her sentence there, isn't it in America's best interest to agree? You'd be getting a criminal out of the country and saving taxpayers money. She'd be someone else's problem and any possible re-offending wouldn't be against American citizens. She'd have a better chance of building a new life in Sweden too if/when she is eventually released.
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Unread 12 Jun 2005, 02:18   #88
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

[quote=Yahwe]i

i have ties to santa clara law school btw. that's near you isn't it?

YahweI am indeed a deputy district attorney and have been for 26 years.The University of Santa Clara Law School is located in the city of Santa Clara, California which is about 80 miles from Stockton where I live. Some of the attorneys in my office graduated from the University of Santa Clara Law School. I have attended basketball games at the University of Santa Clara. I graduated from the McGeorge School of Law which is located in Sacramento, California. McGeorge is the name of the law school for the University of the Pacific which is located in Stockton. University of the Pacific and Santa Clara play each other in basketball almost every year. The star player for University of the Pacific's basketball team is a young man named Christian Maraker who is, I believe, from Varberg, Sweden.Small world.DDA
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Unread 12 Jun 2005, 02:35   #89
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Post Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

[quote=1-X]

As Sweden want her back to continue her sentence there, isn't it in America's best interest to agree? You'd be getting a criminal out of the country and saving taxpayers money. She'd be someone else's problem and any possible re-offending wouldn't be against American citizens. She'd have a better chance of building a new life in Sweden too if/when she is eventually released.1-X Personally, I agree with you that the return of Annika to Sweden would probably be the best all around. The decision to transfer or not to transfer is not up to the Board of Prison Terms it would be up to, as I understand it, the Director of the California Department of Corrections.I believe that the problem is with the general perception among most individuals in California that Sweden is a permissive society. There is the feeling that somehow prison in Sweden would be more pleasant than here. Rather a silly idea, I will admit. Unfortunately for Annika this is the reality. Some feel that the opposition of the family is highly persuasive and given too much emphasis. This may also play an important part in the decision. However, the law here allows the family of victims to express their views. Primarily to emphasize the enormity of the taking of the life of a loved one. Certainly Annika would be better able to shorten her sentence if she could succeed in being incarcerated in a place where family and local officials such as myself would have no input in the decision.The California system may not be the best which one could conceive. However, it is sincerely trying to balance the interests of justice to victims and to inmates. At the present time, in regard to murder, the balance may indeed be tilted toward the vicitms. It is a preplexing problem. DDA
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Unread 12 Jun 2005, 02:38   #90
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

[quote=dda]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i

i have ties to santa clara law school btw. that's near you isn't it?

YahweI am indeed a deputy district attorney and have been for 26 years.The University of Santa Clara Law School is located in the city of Santa Clara, California which is about 80 miles from Stockton where I live. Some of the attorneys in my office graduated from the University of Santa Clara Law School. I have attended basketball games at the University of Santa Clara. I graduated from the McGeorge School of Law which is located in Sacramento, California. McGeorge is the name of the law school for the University of the Pacific which is located in Stockton. University of the Pacific and Santa Clara play each other in basketball almost every year. The star player for University of the Pacific's basketball team is a young man named Christian Maraker who is, I believe, from Varberg, Sweden.Small world.DDA
so 'yes' then.
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Unread 12 Jun 2005, 02:44   #91
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

i don't mean to dampen your spirits btw (that's short for by the way)

i'm jusy glad you know santa clara

they have an exchange process with my college you see
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Unread 12 Jun 2005, 23:35   #92
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Hello dda and welcome to the forums, I have to admit I was halfexpecting you to be a gimmickaccount, nice to see you aren't

Whn you say that she has been "behaving good" for the last seven years, do you consider that ok behaviour, or do you think that she should yet prove herself a few more years? Do you think that she will become a better person in say...ten years?

Do you believe that the judicial system should offer revenge or rehabilitation, or, if you think it should prove a mixture, at wich ratio?
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Unread 13 Jun 2005, 09:49   #93
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Most definitely. I don't automatically trust most things I read, especially on the internet and especially from unnamed sources who pop out of no-where to write long posts with no source given until pressed. He could be someone with a high interest in the case who randomly came across this page of course (through a Google search, say - although I'm not sure if this thread had been indexed by this point) - but then why not introduce himself and give his credentials? Instead of transcribing these police reports he happens to have in his possession, why not offer to scan them? At least we could have a rough look at them to get an idea of the vague authenticity.

I'm not really that bothered either way in this instance, but as a rule I generally doubt.
well it is quite clost to all the other recollections of the tale on the internet

http://groups.msn.com/PRISONLONGHOUS...atedinusa.msnw

but told in a way that makes her look guilty.
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Unread 13 Jun 2005, 17:44   #94
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Re: 24 years for not stopping a murder?

"When you say that she has been "behaving good" for the last seven years, do you consider that ok behaviour, or do you think that she should yet prove herself a few more years? Do you think that she will become a better person in say...ten years?

Do you believe that the judicial system should offer revenge or rehabilitation, or, if you think it should prove a mixture, at wich ratio?"

You pose interesting and difficult questions.

DO I CONSIDER HER BEHAVIOR OKAY?

Actually, I would describe her behavior for the last 7-8 years as exemplary. She has done many good things during that time as well as having complied with all of the rules.

DO I BELIEVE SHE SHOULD PROVE HERSELF FOR A FEW MORE YEARS?

Yes. That is my opinion. I feel that the extremely destructive behavior which she showed over many years makes it necessary to be absolutely certain (or as certain as it is possible to be about such things) that she will pose no further threat to human life. If she had killed (or been intricately involved) only once and under circumstances which showed some degree of provocation then my opinion would be different. However, she was given a chance after her first killing in 1974 and killed again.

DO I BELIEVE THAT MORE TIME WOULD MAKE HER A BETTER PERSON?

First let me say that I think that time in prison rarely makes anyone a better person. What more time would do, at least for me, would make me more confident that her change is genuine and not just a sham. I have seen many people who are just manipulative, showing others what they want to see in order to get what they want. I am inclined to believe that Annika has indeed changed. The only thing that troubles me is her attempts to minimize her culpability. I believe that Annika, if not the actual killer of the two men for whom she was sent to prison, was at a minimum the "brains" of the outfit and had more control over Cox than he had over her.

DO I THINK THAT THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM SHOULD OFFER REVENGE OR REHABILITATION OR A MIXTURE?

First of all, I understand why some would call it revenge, but I would term it punishment. Revenge to me is a personal act without regard to standards of conduct.

I believe, in the best of all possible worlds, that there would be a mixture of the two with the weight heavily in favor of rehabilitation. However, we do not live in the best of all possible worlds. The way the justice system in California works, there are many opportunities for rehabilitation and to receive help until you commit particularly violent crimes of which murder is about the worst.

We have many programs for drug offenders particularly. Many of whom go through the system and, if they do not reoffend, come out with no time in jail and no criminal record. Annika herself was part of a drug program for several years. Annika herself, after her first killing in 1974, was given probation. She was not put in prison. She did not have any further offenses for several years. However, when her probation ran out she went back to her old ways of drug abuse and prostitution. She was never arrested or imprisoned for prostitution.

The criminal justice system gave her many opportunities and she did not avail herself of the help which was available.

Once a person progresses to the point where they go to prison there are still opportunities to receive help and to rehabilitate. Unfortunately, the experience has been that few actually do rehabilitate. This may well be due to flaws in the system. There are many of them. One is that when you put a person in prison they are there with other persons who have decided to live their lives outside the bounds of ordinary society. These then become the prisoners peer group. Most people do not go to prison because they have a lot of self control or strength of character.

People, in general, in California have a misconception that prisoners are somehow coddled and have it easy in prison. There is talk about "country club prisons." When violent crime took a steep upturn a number of years ago, the voters began demanding harsher punishments to protect them from those who were doing the violence.

To answer your question more directly. i think that the mixture depends upon the severity of the cirme. Persons who commit crimes, such as drug use, where they are the primary victim
of their crime should probably have 99% rehabilitation and 1% punishment. If you take the same drug abuser and put him/her behind the wheel of a car where they put everyone at danger then the percentage of punishment should climb, say 90-10, still in favor of rehabilitation. Should a person continue to insist on breaking the same laws over and over again the percent of punishment in the mixture should continue to rise.

When you talk about violent criminals, such as murderers, then I believe that there is a need for a strong component of punishment. Not to make the person being punished miserable but rather just to segragate them from the public who they menace. When a person kills, is treated leniently by the system, kills twice more and attempts to kill three more persons in a gun fight, whether the actual shooter or as an active helper, then a large portion of the mix should be punishment, say 95%-5% in favor of punishment. If during a long period of confinement a person shows that they have actually been rehabilitated then they should be set free.

Based on my observations of the system, I think it likely that Annika will eventually get out of prison. However, I think it likely that she will probably be 65 years old or older before this happens. As for me, another 5 years of behavior such as she has shown over the past 8 years would satisfy any qualms I may have.

I wish Annika good luck. She is very bright and could have contributed so much to society. instead she chose to contribute the death of three fellow human beings.

I hope this has answered your questions and not been just a ramble.

I thank you for the questions. Answering such questions makes one focus more clearly on what they are doing and why. The answers I gave are far from definitive but have caused me to think more about what I am doing. All-in-all a very good thing.
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