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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 08:26   #101
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The entire reason that Xan FI have been so useless this round is because the Sentinel is untargetted by the FI fleet. It's also damn effective. Want to break Xan again? I sure don't.

You've attempted to put some thought into it, but the basic change is the problem.
seeing the arrowhead now shoots (in 5.0) before the sentinel you could argue that they just need to add arrows

and the only reason xans are the suck this round (and alto why cath are doing soooo good(apart from their good stats)) is cause there are way to many xans atm, which means a lot of idle sents laying arround
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 04:51   #102
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Re: Stat changes for R15

one idea might be is to change the guardian from battleship class to destroyer class

I could be wrong but it seems the most under used cath ship going
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 10:17   #103
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddies
one idea might be is to change the guardian from battleship class to destroyer class

I could be wrong but it seems the most under used cath ship going
Yes, it's underused - but it doesn't have to be. Although extensive pre-round testing indicated that they are way more useful for Ziks than Caths
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 11:16   #104
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Although extensive pre-round testing indicated that they are way more useful for Ziks than Caths
Doing things like that is pretty dopey though - making a ship more useful/crucial to another race, rather than making it handy for the race that originally owns it. As any Cath who build Guardians is going to get n00bed by Ziks trying to fleetcatch him to do it, and in the process is spending less cash on Roaches to wtfpwn hapless Xans.

I think i went through this in this post, earlier in the 'Leave stealing to the Ziks' thread - its the "Lack of diversity" problem all over again. It would be especially dopey if the Zik race depended on Guardians (or another type of ship from any race) for their fleet's viability in particular.

heh
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 11:20   #105
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Well, in the private beta Sophie built a lot of Guardians. I was running on a pure Zik BS fleet (wasn't putting CR with it like everyone does in the real round). I promptly fleet-caught her with a LOT of Buccs, and owned with an untouchable BS fleet for the rest of that beta.


Thank god Guardians are rare in the real round.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 22:44   #106
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddies
one idea might be is to change the guardian from battleship class to destroyer class

I could be wrong but it seems the most under used cath ship going
I didn't read this at the time, but this is actually what I've done.
The new version is here.
Again, poke me if there's mistakes. The stats page is accurate if there's differences between that and the other one
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 22:45   #107
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Well, in the private beta Sophie built a lot of Guardians. I was running on a pure Zik BS fleet (wasn't putting CR with it like everyone does in the real round). I promptly fleet-caught her with a LOT of Buccs, and owned with an untouchable BS fleet for the rest of that beta.


Thank god Guardians are rare in the real round.
I looked at some of the top cath planets this round and there seems to be a few there
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Unread 14 Sep 2005, 07:58   #108
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Re: Stat changes for R15

From what I can see looks like some good stats there, the betas can fine tune the numbers.
If ziks are going to be the only stealing race it only fair that It has a good few vunerablities.

It would make some interesting attack strategies with the different races.
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Unread 14 Sep 2005, 15:38   #109
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
I looked at some of the top cath planets this round and there seems to be a few there
But the top caths aren't representative. They can afford to build sub-standard ships if it saves them losing one tick of roids.

Last edited by Banned; 14 Sep 2005 at 16:15.
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Unread 14 Sep 2005, 16:19   #110
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Re: Stat changes for R15

For example, the #1 had uncovered FR incomings. He then bought 3k Guardians. Hello covered FR incomings.
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Unread 14 Sep 2005, 18:14   #111
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Re: Stat changes for R15

the only other uses for guardians is for ingal def and teaming up with a terran for a combined cr/bs attack...haven't done one with a cath yet

At least if the guardian is made a destroyer class it can now be used for ally def
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Unread 15 Sep 2005, 10:36   #112
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Ok, version 8 .
http://www.geocities.com/appocomaster/newstats8.htm
Guardian moved back. A few minor adjustments. Marauder and Ghost now De (from Cr and Fr respectively). Also, I've swapped the Syren and Wyvern, and Roach and Guardian targets.
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Unread 15 Sep 2005, 12:05   #113
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Re: Stat changes for R15

lets give credit where credit is due cath dont pwn cause of stats. Cath pwns cause 1up is heavy cath and lets face it 1up pwns.

congrats 1up well played
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Unread 15 Sep 2005, 16:01   #114
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Re: Stat changes for R15

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Originally Posted by ~RevictioN~
lets give credit where credit is due cath dont pwn cause of stats. Cath pwns cause 1up is heavy cath and lets face it 1up pwns.

congrats 1up well played
omg - yer that's it !



cath all over in every alliance (just not in reunion) had great ranks . look at ND for example or Insomnia/LCH earlier. atm Terran and Zik takes the lead more and more though
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Unread 15 Sep 2005, 18:52   #115
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Re: Stat changes for R15

looking at verson 8... Xans de look good against terran, maybe just a bit too good tho
Terran bs/de looks good against caths
Cath on xan is a bit better although it means using cr/bs rather than pure cruiser fleet to attack xans
and the ghosts are effectively an extra bit of freezer flak now
the ziks anti frig weakness has been corrected a bit tho
(but that will only be upto they steal some ships)

if the idea is to strenghten the xan and weaken the cath a bit it is going in the right direction.
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Unread 15 Sep 2005, 19:09   #116
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~RevictioN~
lets give credit where credit is due cath dont pwn cause of stats. Cath pwns cause 1up is heavy cath and lets face it 1up pwns.

congrats 1up well played
a) Cath don't own.
b) Cath from many alliances dominated the top20 early, not just 1up.
c) This isn't r11.
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Unread 15 Sep 2005, 21:17   #117
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Re: Stat changes for R15

I feel xan isnt all that bad this rnd. 9\10 times ive gotten roided this round has been xan inc, much cause the eta, and much cuz i am a zik and zik sucks anti FI.
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Unread 16 Sep 2005, 18:54   #118
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Re: Stat changes for R15

lol, same here... although admittedly I haven't built one Zik frigate this round
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Unread 16 Sep 2005, 18:55   #119
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Re: Stat changes for R15

well, Fr was a bit weak this round. It was probably the weakest point in the stats, and that obviously didn't help Zik.
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Unread 16 Sep 2005, 21:43   #120
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Cutter and Beetle are going to be great Xan FI stopper, just the Cutters on their own will be good... Cutter damage is twice as poweful as the sentinel was
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Unread 16 Sep 2005, 21:45   #121
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Notice the arrowhead being a nice counter for the cutter, which I admit is extremely strong for being 0 loss. However, Xan Fi is extremely strong, and with Zik usually not a large race %, I think that together with the arrowhead this justifies the otherwise overpowered Cutter.
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Unread 16 Sep 2005, 22:40   #122
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Re: Stat changes for R15

the problem with the corsair is it will get a free hit into a xan de fleet but a terran de fleet with a good number of pegs will generally maul a zik in the early stages.

unless that is by design
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Unread 16 Sep 2005, 22:45   #123
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Re: Stat changes for R15

With two strong De fleets, I've tried to make sure there'll be enough untargetted anti de around to cover. Pulsars are slightly weaker than they were last round, but still fire before Pegs and aren't touched by Xan De. Peg armour is perhaps too big, tbh. Anyway, then there's Phoenixes that can fire at Pegs 0 loss, and Corsair that fire at Xans that is 0 loss, and then there's Syrens / Guardians / Pirates. Xans will tend to hit Terrans more, and Terrans will tend to hit Ziks more, and they can both hit Caths (although Caths will be probably preferred by Terrans). However, Caths and Ziks generally have slightly fewer players than Xans / Ziks, so hopefully it'll mean approximately the same amount of targets. If Terran have more targets, Xan can always look for low bomber Xans and hit them with a Tzen + De fleet.
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Unread 16 Sep 2005, 22:53   #124
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Re: Stat changes for R15

one suggestion might be to make the corsair's init a 5 instead of a 6 so they fire at the same time as the pegs
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Unread 17 Sep 2005, 00:08   #125
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Here's an attached copy of my latest stats here (apparently the previous attachment didn't work for some people)

Things in red are changed. For those who I've mailed version 4, version 5 is the same as version 4 but Sov (UN) thought it might be worth putting all the combos on a separate page, which I hadn't got around to doing yet.
People are welcome to direct all comments to me (preferably constructive ) here, forum pm, IRC, whatever.
I know furball is making his own set of stats, but I don't know if anyone else is going to modify the current stats and release them. Some of the major changes I've made are Sentinal from Co to Fi, and giving Xan a De pod class. Because of this, I've had to change the class of the Ghost and Syren, and the targetting of the Syren, Cutter, and Corsair. Other modifications are generally minor.
I've noticed once mistake (the bomber target is red when it shouldn't be) but any other mistakes are welcome.
Appoc, I like the direction that the stats are moving, but you seem to be empowing the Roach. Making zik anti CR a DE is bad.
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Unread 17 Sep 2005, 20:58   #126
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Re: Stat changes for R15

In the newest version of the stats I feel that the cath cruiser fleet is now underpowered. It is probably the weakest of the traditional "main" roiding fleets. To have an affective cath cr/bs roiding fleet would require putting a very high proportion of resources into roaches and guardians. Without enough of these ships it is very easy to force a recall, either with anti-cr or anti-bs defence, depending which of the 2 ships is lacking.

Having looked closer at the stats while writing this I think the zik frigate fleet is also very under powered. This is because all the anti-fr ships in the universe will almost certainly be built in large quantities (vsh for xan fi fleets, wyvern/drake for ter roiding fleets, vipers/roaches for cath roiding fleets and marauders as zik's only anti-fr). This is made even more the case by the fact that marauders are now ships that can be used as defence. This change makes ziks look stronger at first glance but because of it, and the other reasons mentioned earlier, the marauder will actually become a more or less pointless ship as very few ziks would go with frigs.

With current stats I would say that with a low number of ziks in the game xan would be the best race. With a high number of ziks terran would probably become the better race, with cat and zik lagging a bit behind in either case.
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Unread 18 Sep 2005, 16:15   #127
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
In the newest version of the stats I feel that the cath cruiser fleet is now underpowered. It is probably the weakest of the traditional "main" roiding fleets. To have an affective cath cr/bs roiding fleet would require putting a very high proportion of resources into roaches and guardians. Without enough of these ships it is very easy to force a recall, either with anti-cr or anti-bs defence, depending which of the 2 ships is lacking.

Having looked closer at the stats while writing this I think the zik frigate fleet is also very under powered. This is because all the anti-fr ships in the universe will almost certainly be built in large quantities (vsh for xan fi fleets, wyvern/drake for ter roiding fleets, vipers/roaches for cath roiding fleets and marauders as zik's only anti-fr). This is made even more the case by the fact that marauders are now ships that can be used as defence. This change makes ziks look stronger at first glance but because of it, and the other reasons mentioned earlier, the marauder will actually become a more or less pointless ship as very few ziks would go with frigs.

With current stats I would say that with a low number of ziks in the game xan would be the best race. With a high number of ziks terran would probably become the better race, with cat and zik lagging a bit behind in either case.
I believe that it is an intentional design to put the anti-fr into race's respective roiding ship type, since one could assume that active people use their roiding fleet to attack and hence their anti-fr will be out most of the time, or are you really expecting to ask your alliance's xans to devote their vsh for defense and only use pulsar/sent for attacking and same should be the case with viper/roach. The only anti-fr that you mentioned which usually will be home for ally def is the marauder and it being a steal ship doesnt make the anti-fr departement too strong imho.

Im not certain if I either agree with the displeasure concerning cath cr now requiring also bs to accompany them as the same has been done with xan fi by giving zikonian an updated version of sentinel. At least the new version of stats has arrowhead shooting before this upgraded sent which means that attacking with fi is feasible if you send in both fi and co.

Terrans/ziks do also usually attack with cr/bs combo so that leaves xan de ( which would benefit of having some fr escorts), terran de and cath co as roiding fleets that can be used by building only one type of ships and arrowhead/corsair/pulsar are stong counters versus the priviledged roiding fleets.

Maybe the current formation of cath cr/bs isnt the best one, but my stance is that cath cr fleet needs to be different from what it was this round as there is propotionally unusually large amount of anti-cr ships in Universe currently due to cath cr fleet having been so hard to counter.

I might be missing a thing or two, but my main point is that one should try to focus on the big picture instead of trying to just upgrade the race(s) of which one will pick the race he/she plays.

Last edited by Dopec; 18 Sep 2005 at 16:21.
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Unread 18 Sep 2005, 17:07   #128
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Re: Stat changes for R15

The only problem with Xan this round has been their absolute reliance on attacking with Caths.

Most wouldn't dream of attacking without one currently. And what does that mean?

A ter can have a reasonable go at landing two full 25% cap attacks a night.
A xan can have a reasonable go at landing one 12.5% cap attack a night.

Compare that with CO/Caths and the problem's pretty clear. It's all very well having your Class capable of covering for all likely defences, but you cannot assume every Xan can find someone to team with every night, occasionally or even at all.
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Unread 18 Sep 2005, 23:20   #129
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopec
Maybe the current formation of cath cr/bs isnt the best one, but my stance is that cath cr fleet needs to be different from what it was this round as there is propotionally unusually large amount of anti-cr ships in Universe currently due to cath cr fleet having been so hard to counter.
tbh Cath offense fleets are meant to be "extremely" powerfull, they really on a good offence as their defence ain't all that great. I can tell from experience (as medium sized Cath) that whenever your gal is targetted as Cathaar you are bound to get most incoming (unless you are huge or have no roids), simply because most races can get through on Cath for free. Also with the changed sentinel from CO to FI cathaar will probably be alot easier to attack for Xan Fi as there won't be any cathaars who have sents anymore.

Caths might have the best offence, but they rely on it as they are also the most diserable race to attack for alot of ppl. Current changes to Xan (DE roid fleet) and Cathaar with the Guardian targetting the class that has most anti-CR, it will be way to easy to stop them. The Roach is useless as anti-FR (there is no FR targetting CR or BS), which means Cathaar rely on a Hornet / Guardian combo and with the amount of anti-CR & BS in DE class ships that will be damn easy to stop. Add to that the reduced effectiveness of the Viper and there isn't really much left for a Cathaar to attack with. And basing a race purely on teaming with other races isn't the best way to get some balanced stats.
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Unread 19 Sep 2005, 11:07   #130
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Re: Stat changes for R15

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Originally Posted by Wandows
tbh Cath offense fleets are meant to be "extremely" powerfull, they really on a good offence as their defence ain't all that great. I can tell from experience (as medium sized Cath) that whenever your gal is targetted as Cathaar you are bound to get most incoming (unless you are huge or have no roids), simply because most races can get through on Cath for free. Also with the changed sentinel from CO to FI cathaar will probably be alot easier to attack for Xan Fi as there won't be any cathaars who have sents anymore.

Caths might have the best offence, but they rely on it as they are also the most diserable race to attack for alot of ppl. Current changes to Xan (DE roid fleet) and Cathaar with the Guardian targetting the class that has most anti-CR, it will be way to easy to stop them. The Roach is useless as anti-FR (there is no FR targetting CR or BS), which means Cathaar rely on a Hornet / Guardian combo and with the amount of anti-CR & BS in DE class ships that will be damn easy to stop. Add to that the reduced effectiveness of the Viper and there isn't really much left for a Cathaar to attack with. And basing a race purely on teaming with other races isn't the best way to get some balanced stats.
After some consideration, I agree mostly with all that, but this round's peacekeeper versus roach imbalance is something that cant imho be left untouched. I wouldnt say that the current stats are so bad for cath, maybe not good enoug thought, if you consider Guardians Dam/cost which is 58 to its counter, Ghost which has Arm/Cost as 33, so if a Xan wants to defend himself versus caths he can not really rely on the ghost but rather on the peacekeeper so its the same as it has been this round, Xan will have to build a silly amount of 40 Arm/cost peacekeepers to flak Guardians with Dam/cost of 58. I cant really see how a cath cr/bs fleet that has main focus on Guardians and 2ndary focus on taras would suck as there'll be next to no point in building the roach. The buccaneer versus Guardian situation might be a bit grim for the cath atm, but i believe that it wasnt yet taken into consideration when Guardian was moved to BS class so it might change.

I wouldnt spend much attention to the current top 10 either since 3 of the terrans there are 6:10 and also three of them are 1up hence their high ranks shouldnt come as suprise to anyone. When the top10 had more than just 1up/Reunion members it might've been better indicator of race balance. There are only a few caths in top20 yeah but there are as many caths in top20 as there are good 1up/Reunion players who went cath for this round, played actively and resided in good galaxies
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Unread 19 Sep 2005, 11:23   #131
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopec
I cant really see how a cath cr/bs fleet that has main focus on Guardians and 2ndary focus on taras would suck as there'll be next to no point in building the roach. The buccaneer versus Guardian situation might be a bit grim for the cath atm, but i believe that it wasnt yet taken into consideration when Guardian was moved to BS class so it might change.
i am aware of the better efficiency of the Guardian compared to the armour of the Xan DE, however with Xan getting a rather decent DE attack fleet we are bound to see alot of DE heavy Xan, which means Cathaar needs ALOT more anti-DE to block all the flak and the Ghost / Peacekeeper that target them. Considering both Terran and Zik also have DE ships as anti-BS (Chimera) and anti-CR (Clipper) it will be really easy to outflak the Guardian and do some serious damage. And in the case a cathaar would get through on a Xan, he can simply retall with his DE fleet as the Cathaar has to send his anti-DE out to land on the Xan, which in the end means the Cathaar loses his gains again.

As for the Buccaneer, that one can be countered with Tarantula's, but again you need quite alot of those and incase of Dragons defence the Tarantula's don't matter much as they die before they fire.

Current stats make Cathaar even better to attack, and worse to attack with. So all in all Cathaar would be the big loser the coming round. I rather go back to current round stats with the Sentinel as FI and a slightly heavier armoured Peacekeeper, as all in all current stats ain't that unbalanced.
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Unread 19 Sep 2005, 12:00   #132
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Re: Stat changes for R15

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Originally Posted by Wandows
i am aware of the better efficiency of the Guardian compared to the armour of the Xan DE, however with Xan getting a rather decent DE attack fleet we are bound to see alot of DE heavy Xan, which means Cathaar needs ALOT more anti-DE to block all the flak and the Ghost / Peacekeeper that target them. Considering both Terran and Zik also have DE ships as anti-BS (Chimera) and anti-CR (Clipper) it will be really easy to outflak the Guardian and do some serious damage. And in the case a cathaar would get through on a Xan, he can simply retall with his DE fleet as the Cathaar has to send his anti-DE out to land on the Xan, which in the end means the Cathaar loses his gains again.

Xan de fleet will face up the same exact situation where cath cr was in r13 (corsair vs cath cr), there are two fastest eta zero-lose defense ships to counter it with (corsair and pulsar) and as im inclined to believe that terrans will rather do cr/bs than de as they've done until now i dont see that xans will heavily focus on de since the only way to use it properly is to team up with a terran.

This round Xan has had to build 40-50% of his value worth peacekeepers to even do some damage to cath cr, if we do as you say and keep the situation as it is and just slightly increase peacekeeper armor it'll mean that xan only has to build 25-35% of his value into peacekeepers assuming that he doesnt want to have multiple daily cath cr incs, if that'd be the case i'll rather pick another race to play ( since caths would be much more popular than they now are due to the cath cr being quite powerful again)
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Unread 19 Sep 2005, 13:41   #133
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
The only problem with Xan this round has been their absolute reliance on attacking with Caths.

Most wouldn't dream of attacking without one currently.
<snip>
I haven't teamed up with anyone at all for an attack this round. I can easily gain roids and XP from Ziks and Caths about 1.5 times my size as long as they have the right (wrong?) fleet composition.

I still can't defend myself against Cath Cr and Terran Cr/BS though.
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Unread 19 Sep 2005, 16:18   #134
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Re: Stat changes for R15

I do get the feeling the stats will probily need a bit of tweaking with some of the ships armour and damage but overall looks like a good set of stats.
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Unread 23 Sep 2005, 01:22   #135
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Re: Stat changes for R15

well, ive played with xan for quite a few rounds, and ive just got a few things ive noticed, but i might be seeing things differantly then the game creators

il keep my comments limited to this round

- the ghosts and peacekeepers in my opinion are to slow (INT wise, not travel times), for xan standerds, it leaves them open to alot of unnesseary pounding, and as such, i only use them defencively (unless otherwise strategicly advantagous to send them in). but it seems that this is made up with some extra armour or atk, but even still... the first strike with the high damage is what makes xan highly effective

as a side note to that, if the int values were brought down to lets say 4 or 5, probally 5 as they are slightly slower ships, then it would make an effective xan "heavy" fleet, it maybe only med class ships, but for xan, thats heavy :P

- i personally like how the setinal was changed, before, it lacked killing power (the damage ratio last round was kinda low), its moved up a class, so now a xan quickstrike fleet isnt purely fighter based, much like last rounds fleet, where most of the ship classes used where fighters, and it still fits in well with the xan quickstrike build

all and all, i think xan is perty kool for this round, the QS fleet is still a highly effective atk force

i think my suggestions for next round are implied, i think the ships are fine as they are, but possibly bring those int values for ghost and PK
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Unread 23 Sep 2005, 07:39   #136
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Re: Stat changes for R15

According to V8 stats, if you like xan this round you are going to love xan next round.
One thing to avoid is overpowering one race.
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Unread 23 Sep 2005, 08:06   #137
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Yes. I've been away for a few days, but I'll try and redo stats (maybe slightly differently).
I'd prefer to try and just make the Fr fleets work, and a few other minor adjustments. atm I've just really tried to cheat and move the problem.

============================Edit========================

I've made a new set of stats: I've moved Xan back to Fr pods, made Viper EMP, and so swapped around the Syren and Wyvern, and Guardian (which is now Norm dmg) and Roach. Stats are located here (if you can't guess the URLs by now ), with red showing the differences from r14 stats as usual.

Cath will obviously be a target for Xan, unless they mass Guardian.
However, (especially Lancerless) Xans can generally be raped by Cathaar.
Terran De is slightly stronger, Terran Cr/Bs is perhaps slightly overpowered, but the Clipper will cause problems. The Xan Fr fleet is better, even if the Zik Fr fleet isn't great. I'd love to move a ship (apart from the Marauder) to Fr class to assist the Zik Fr fleet, but I'm not sure - if I move the Clipper, I'd probably move the Scarab back to De. I refuse to have anti Cr/Bs steal as Fr/De.

The Cutter and Clipper are really quite nice as defence ships :-)
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Unread 23 Sep 2005, 12:50   #138
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Re: Stat changes for R15

the new stats (V9) look pretty decent, I know terrans will be grinning from ear to ear with not waking up in the morning to find their gryhpons not been wiped by vipers, same time the ziks would fancy their chances attacking caths with frigs early to mid round with a no loss attack.
The viper might be a bit under powered now I guess testing will show that (if there is no v10 ofc)

there is still going to be that cath cr on xan weakness tho but at least the armour on the pks have been increased.
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Unread 23 Sep 2005, 22:16   #139
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Hmm, i havent attacked with a cath partner all round, and ive only attacked 2, maybe 3 times with a xan partner, and thats mainly FR, and i can get roids, altho, not quite as often as id like
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Unread 24 Sep 2005, 11:35   #140
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Current stats look nice idd .

On a different note, not sure where to best put this:

It might be a good thing to reduce the costs of terran ships a bit (keeping the dam/cost & arm/cost the same ofcourse). I know some ppl might not like me and will probably want to shoot me for suggesting it, as most ppl got used to Terran being the one with the big expensive ships. But the reason i have for this is that Terran still is most commonly used by the new players (aka noobs), and i think the game might be more fun and interesting for them if they don't have to save resources an entire day to be able to build 1 new ship. I have seen several 'frustrated' new players about the cost of their ships and how it was impossible for them to build a (in their eyes) decent sized fleet with the resources they had. If the cost is reduced, they can build more ships more easy and might enjoy the game a tad more.
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Unread 25 Sep 2005, 09:51   #141
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Re: Stat changes for R15

I had always thought that had been part of the deal going terran
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Unread 25 Sep 2005, 09:51   #142
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Re: Stat changes for R15

We could change the default race to Xan?
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Unread 25 Sep 2005, 11:02   #143
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Re: Stat changes for R15

even tho i haven't read most of it i must admit... thing what i've seen from this round that HAS to be changed is viper and gryph init. as terran has NO defence whatsoever against cath co and this is only due to the initiative.

if you let gryphs fire before vipers you got alot better stats then you have now already.
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Unread 25 Sep 2005, 11:50   #144
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
We could change the default race to Xan?
Might be a solution, not sure how they would cope with alot of losses though (seeing the armour of Xan ships), but i think the number of ships could make up for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
if you let gryphs fire before vipers you got alot better stats then you have now already.
lol, right. Doing that effectively removes the CO fleet as viable attack fleet for Cath. Latest change is that Vipers EMP, hence you won't lose the gryphons any more, that should be sufficient.
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Unread 25 Sep 2005, 12:12   #145
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Default race to xan... for once I am stuck with an answer.
seeing that the xans main attack fleet is fi, and is easier to get a fleet up and going compared to the terran de fleet might be a possiblity
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Unread 26 Sep 2005, 08:36   #146
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Re: Stat changes for R15

I dont think making Cutters co anti FI will solve much of the problem. By giving sentinels FI status you will end up with Xans using sents for def and the other FI as attack force. Atleast that was what happend round 13. Please rethink this. Every race have now a pretty decent xan fi defence with the new stats and seeing as Xan FR will get kicked hard, I think you need to rethink that idea. Ziks will be able to steal both xan FI (wich includes Sents) and Terran Harpies.
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Unread 26 Sep 2005, 08:55   #147
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Re: Stat changes for R15

I wouldnt actually agree with the idea of changing default race from terran to xan for the reason that the terrans are usually more reliable choice, they are hardly ever the underdog, while on the other hand xan seems to be traveling from the edge of being overpowered to the edge of being underpowered quite easily after a few stats changes. I sort of agree with Kargool that if we stick to the current stats and make the default race to be xan, we surely wont be gaining much new players if xan proves out to be even weaker than terran afterall.
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Unread 26 Sep 2005, 09:12   #148
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Re: Stat changes for R15

Xan are the strongest race defensively. Their ships are small and cheap, and easier to buy.

Xan Fi isn't totally weak. People will send their sents along to cover for defense vs Harpies, and Arrowheads to hurt Beetles and stop Cutters from firing. Turning the Vipers to EMP if anything makes the Xan Fr fleet stronger, as there will be far more Vipers than Guardians in the universe (Vipers are one of the attack fleet ships) and Guardians aren't eta defence. The Tzen and Vsh obviously have to fire the same ETA so neither is in dominance. Bomber damage has been upped. Zik and Cath should be possible to be taken by the Fr fleet, and Terran with their Cr/Bs fleet out. Xan comes down to a how much you're willing to loose vs Vsh competition.
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Unread 26 Sep 2005, 09:53   #149
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Re: Stat changes for R15

I'm am not sure about the default race. Terrans will have a harder time attacking xan with bs/cr now (V9)
since the pks don't get capped. The terran would have to ensure that he/she has enough ships to make them run their fleet now to get good roids without major losses or the syren becomes the "disposable" ship. It would seem in the interest of fairness that sents are downgraded to fi class due to gryphons are usally mauled by the vsh and terrans can no longer cap lancers. As the sents effectively get a free lunch at the harpys with R14 stats.

Xans would need to send arrowheads with the fi fleet to take out the cutters and since the ziks natural anti co is a frig ship. A suffient amount of vsh and arrowhead would ensure a good landing.
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Unread 26 Sep 2005, 10:07   #150
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Re: Stat changes for R15

One thing I noticed was the init of the tarantula.
Tarantula Cruiser Battleship Norm 8 175 135 10,500 14,000 10,500 50 39 Cathaar in the V9 stats.
Tarantula Cruiser Battleship Norm 9 175 135 10,500 14,000 10,500 50 38 Cathaar in the R14 stats.

Is that by design or just something overlooked?
the only implication that I can see is the tarantula would fire before the wyvern as oppose to firing at the same time.
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