User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 18 Jul 2005, 06:21   #1
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Right, as far as i know the stats have been finalised - though i havent been in touch with appoco to confirm so this thread may need to be updated . But here goes:

Attacking
Xandathrii have two race specific Pods, the Fighter classed Dagger, and the Frigate classed Sabre.

The composition of the Fighter classed fleet depends on who you are going to target. It will consist of:
Daggers (FI),
Pulsars (FI),
Vsharracks (FI),
Sentinels (CO),
Arrowheads (CO).

Initially, at the very beginning of the round, build Daggers and Arrowheads and attack Zikonians (as their anti FI are Frigates and thus will take some time before they are available). The Arrowheads may discourage the use of Beetles/Sentinels to defend against you if the defenders have Unit Scans at that stage (alliance Scanners should have units by then). Zikonian lack of FI targeting wont last long, however, and thus you'll need to build Vsh fairly quickly. Alternatively, you could build Sentinels and attack Terrans (with your Daggers, of course) as Sentinels are effective at killing Harpies. Most Terrans, however, will quickly have Destroyers as that is their smallest class of pods - that means they will also be able to build Pegasus which is bad news for your Daggers, and thus in very short order you will need to build Pulsars to keep them at bay as well.

Later on in the round, i expect that Xans will need to build some of all the types of Fighters and Corvettes, and attack with the lot - simply to cover the classes of ship that may be used in defence. Obviously, the amount and of which type will depend on whom you like attacking - Terrans or Zikonains - however you should be able to attack the random Cathaar every now and again (especially Caths who are going after CR and only have a small Beetle population).

In Summary: FI/CO is effectively your attacking fleet, and tweak it to specialise in attacking one race. Use your FI/CO fleet to attack either Terrans (Focus on Pulsars, Sents, Daggers - send token Arrowheads and Vsh) or Zikonians (Send LOTS of Vsh, Daggers, plus some Sents and Arrowheads to discoruage defence). Attack Cathaars with unsufficient Beetles. Do not attack other Xans unless you are sure that their FI/CO fleet is out.

Xans also have a FR classed Pod, the Sabre. A FR attack fleet would consist of:
Sabre (FR)
Ghost (FR)
Bomber (FR)
Peacekeeper (DE)
Lancer (DE)

This fleet is fairly limited in attacking options, insofar as that it is really only useful for attacking Terrans. Peacekeepers are essential for destroying Syren, Bombers are essential for destroying Drakes, Lancers are essential for destroying Phoenix (both the Defender's fleet and anyPho/Cutter defence being sent), Ghosts should discourage the use of Wyvern to steal any DE, and Sabres are obvious for roid liberating ability.

My personal opinion is that this fleet can work, but only in very limited situations. The fleet is especially vulnerable to in-universe Pulsar defence (which is 0 loss and will inflect heavy damage on your DE), and Roach/Syren combination will completely wreck your fragile fleet. Guardians wont help either, as they will permit Wyvern to steal your DE as they freeze Ghosts before they can fire.

In Summary: FR/DE is definately only a secondary fleet for Xans, and is specialised for attacking Terrans only. Highly vulnerable to universal and in-gal defence that will wreck your weakly armoured fleet. I, personally, am going with the FI/CO fleet .

Defence
Strangely, the FR/DE attacking fleet is nearly ideal for defence. Maintaining a small to medium Lancer fleet will strongly discourage a larger CO fleet from attacking you. A combination of Peacekeepers and Ghosts will provide effective defence against Terran CR/BA attacks, as the Peacekeeper's now have the initiative advantage over Syren, and Ghosts are extremely effective against Battleships. A similar situation arises with Zikonian CR/BA attacks - though i dont see Ziks attacking Xans too often unless they steal certain critical ships (like Roaches). Bombers will provide effective defence against Destroyers, and in combination with Pulsars few Terrans will attack you with DE. Whilst the Pulsar is slightly more efficient and has superior initiative, it might be worth building some Bombers as there is less incentive for you to send them on attack (), they provide some flak for Ghosts, and they require Chimera to target them - most DE fleets will be Peg heavy to (vainly) attempt to discourage Pulsars in-universe to defend, and thus the Bombers are likely to be more survivable. It is important to note, however, that as a defender your defensive fleet is always insufficient for the task of defending you. However, with Xan, usually all it takes to defend you is another Xan of about the same size sending something useful plus the rest of the ships in that class - ie, if Peacekeepers are needed then send both Lancers and Peacekeepers.

The only really useless ship that the Xandathrii have is the TBT - it will only be useful in-gal defending against another Xandathrii who has for some stupid error forgotten to send Vsh along for the ride. I see this as unlikely, and it would prolly have just been easier to build your own FI instead of building TBT and stealing them.

In Summary: Ideal defensive ships are: Ghosts, Bombers, Lancers, Peacekeepers + aspects of your FI/CO fleet.

Comments: Xandathrii have alot of choice with regards to fleet options - they can tailor their FI/CO fleet to specialise in attacking Terrans or Ziks, and their defensive fleet is capable at defending most things well. However, this leads to its own problems - Xans are in the envyable position of being spoilt for choice. They are unable to defend against everything and unable to attack all potential targets at the same time. Xans will need to choose, and stick with their choice, and rely on their galaxy/alliance to fill the gaps.

I might just mention here, that often people forget just how paper thin Xan ships actually are. If you are playing Xandathrii, you must be extremely careful with your fleet - Xan is a very unforgiving race, and so if you have a habit of sleeping in and/or forgetting to recall your fleet, then do not pick Xan, as you'll likely loose your entire fleet just from one error.

Enjoy, and best of luck for R14! .

Feel free to post comments and thoughts etc below.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."

Last edited by Ultimate Newbie; 19 Jul 2005 at 05:12. Reason: Added summaries
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jul 2005, 22:39   #2
maddog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6
maddog is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Some practical advice, check the launches of your enemy (especially with Ziks) and try to roid planets that haven't done any attacking. I thought I was well equipped to handle an enemy in the Beta, but found that he had stolen massive amounts of Cath ships. The better initiative and the Xans natural weakness to Cath small craft destroyed all of my ships. Stupid, Stupid.
__________________
Behold, the fallace dances in glee
It seems he shall get some p***y

Just a fun little rhyme
maddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jul 2005, 00:46   #3
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Fi - attack with either one of the 2 main fi's & pod and defend with the remaining one.

Co - Sentinel is a very useful anti-fi ship, arrows are not so useful.

That's all the ships you really need really. Let your buddies specialize in other areas heh. Fr/De is for more offensive players as they offer more use in attacking than defence overall.
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jul 2005, 01:23   #4
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

I'd say, don't build Tzen either (steal Xan FI ? better build them. Steal Cath FI ? they won't stop the cath CO from freezing you. Steal Terran or Zik FI ? they're no better than your own ships so what's the point)... and I don't see how to use effectively a FR roiding fleet, thus I'm not sure about building Sabre.
Now what's important is the timing : when do you build each ship. At first you should roid Zik with FI, their only def is a FR ship which they won't have early on (even then they'll fire after the pods), your real worry should be Xan def with Sents (not much you can do unless you team up with a Cath). The Xan FI are targetting ships that won't be available early on, so better build Pods and Sents. Attack Zik with Pods only, attack Terrans with Pods + Sents...
Quickly you'll need to produce anti FR and anti DE to protect your pods from both those races def ships, then you'll have to constantly build more of them to keep the edge.
Third stage will be to build your def fleet vs Cath CR and Ter BS. You can't protect yourself effectively against everything, you have to leave a hole or two and hope for your buddies or ally to help you with them. Considering Caths are really few in the universe, that they are really hard to stop for a Xan and that they won't kill your ships only steal roids, I'd tend to leave a gap in my def vs them (no anti CO) and concentrate on anti BS/CR (I would have dropped the anti CR but Terran will attack with a CR/BS combo, so there is little choice but to build them).
The anti CR won't probably be enough to stop a Cath but should deter Terrans (you don't have to kill all the BS).

If a Xan can buddy pack with another Xan and a Cath, he should be fine.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jul 2005, 11:44   #5
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

stealing spiders lets you hit other Xans - sent armour is paper thin, so efficiency wise it's almost 2 for 1 EMPing. If you manage to get a few Harpys from hitting Xans then that won't hurt either.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jul 2005, 11:46   #6
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

btw, with the Fr/De fleet, the same Lancer/Peackeeper/Bomber/Ghost fleet can get you past Ziks. Ghost/Lancer fleets work vs Cath, especially if they have their Cr out . Also, if you mass enough Tzen, and send Ghosts and Bombers along for the ride (and flak) you can land on other Xans, and if they don't run, you get to steal most of their Fi.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jul 2005, 11:50   #7
noah02
The Original Terran
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Afghan atm
Posts: 1,633
noah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond reputenoah02 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
stealing spiders lets you hit other Xans - sent armour is paper thin, so efficiency wise it's almost 2 for 1 EMPing. If you manage to get a few Harpys from hitting TERRANS then that won't hurt either.
fixed ?
__________________
introduction-Gramma
The following is a list of problems found in various places throughout the manual and game. We love you Noah!

Written by Kloopy Wed Mar 16 22:06:43 2005

Retired just for a bit....

Proud to have been 1up, SiN, Wolfpack, Bluetuba and the leader of ARK.
noah02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jul 2005, 11:52   #8
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Yeah eyes blurred.. brain pulp.. etc
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jul 2005, 04:33   #9
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
arrows are not so useful.
I disagree - i think arrows have an important role to play in discouraging Cath lemming attacks - if you have Arrows and the Xan next to you does not, then most caths will launch at the other xan as they are a softer target.

I reckon, anyway.

Later Arrows will be useful in discouraging Ziks to attack you with FR/CO - as they will be loosing their hard fought CO instead of just their FR.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jul 2005, 08:54   #10
MAdnRisKy
home wrecker
 
MAdnRisKy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
MAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to behold
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

arrows are the old phx.

how is that not useful?
__________________
May the Farce be with you...

#pr0nstars - a pimp is for life, not just for christmas
MAdnRisKy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jul 2005, 09:31   #11
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Spiders, etc
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jul 2005, 09:34   #12
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
I disagree - i think arrows have an important role to play in discouraging Cath lemming attacks - if you have Arrows and the Xan next to you does not, then most caths will launch at the other xan as they are a softer target.

I reckon, anyway.

Later Arrows will be useful in discouraging Ziks to attack you with FR/CO - as they will be loosing their hard fought CO instead of just their FR.
Why would ziks send CO as well ?! Or are we assuming zikos steal sentinels/beetles?
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jul 2005, 09:51   #13
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
Why would ziks send CO as well ?! Or are we assuming zikos steal sentinels/beetles?
Yes. Zik FR fleet along i dont think will be strong enough.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jul 2005, 11:22   #14
MAdnRisKy
home wrecker
 
MAdnRisKy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
MAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to behold
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
Spiders, etc
hmm maybe, but no cat would actually attack a xan because of lancers, so they'd have to send them to avoid a xan sending defence on another target. but for instance they're not going to send them against a terran because of pegs.
__________________
May the Farce be with you...

#pr0nstars - a pimp is for life, not just for christmas
MAdnRisKy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jul 2005, 06:38   #15
zen
zenguard
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 58
zen has a spectacular aura aboutzen has a spectacular aura about
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Defence
... as the Peacekeeper's now have the initiative advantage over Syren, and Ghosts are extremely effective against Battleships...
http://game.planetarion.com/stats.pl?rn=9064297

Peacekeepers do not have the initiative advatage no more.
__________________
r12 APA noob
r13 APA BC
r14 APA Executive BC / ToF member (quit)
r15 Subh Member


"Siinä tapauksessa etenemme täydellä tuuppausvoimalla tuikutusetäisyydelle"
zen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jul 2005, 23:25   #16
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

no, but enough will still discourage Terran
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jul 2005, 16:50   #17
MAdnRisKy
home wrecker
 
MAdnRisKy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
MAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to beholdMAdnRisKy is a splendid one to behold
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

I've been weighing up the xan attacking options and frankly I'm a bit depressed. Firstly I went xan, because last time I looked at the stats, they were quite playable, but no *someone* has made a few last minute changes to them, and frankly I think they are going to be rnd 14 whipping boys but we'll see.

FI CO fleet.

ok so who can you hit with it? terran, if you have a fk load of pulsars (and sents for harpies and vsh for gryphons), it's an option. Zik if you have a fk load of vsh, again an option.

how do you defend against these? sents. just a few, and sure they might die after if the attacker sent arrows, but christ the dmg is done. and why is it done? because the FI ar,mour has dropped from around 40 to around 30. at what can the xan do against it? nothing. to be quite honest it's a bit sick. never mind the fact that the beetle makes a complete mockery of xan. Why? because the screaming kiddies in beta whined that cat was not stupidly powerful so they upped it's power, never mind the consequences of bad balancing because of it. (cat's problem for power is not it's own, but terran armour... but that's by the by, and it will be the same problem as xan will have.)

Initative or not, when xan power is on average mid 40s and terran armour is in the 50 to 60s, and armour for xan and firepower for terran is about the same, it isn't hard to see who is going to win a fight of equal size, every time. EVERY TIME.

and it's hard hitting zik for exactly the same reasons, except, oh gosh, they even gain back.

1 on 1 xan can't attack anyone with it's primary fleet, and it's secondary fleet has the same problems on a biggre scale since the init for those ships is also out of wack. Honestly what's the deal with the syren and the keeper? who is responsible for that one?

grrrr

I shoudl have written this rant a week ago, but then I went afk, as you do. It's kinda my fault I guess, I should have been more vocal at the time. I thought I'd made my points clear, but then i left, i guess i got shouted down by the jackals.


So we're in for another round of over compensation, zik this round look reasonably balanced i have to say and terran look not so bad. but why the heck has cat got 2 great fleets (hell the fast one even kills AND has armour :/) and xan is going to be largely unworkable? because that's always what happens.

maybe next round they'll overhaul the fisher price combat engine. please god let them overhaul the fisher price combat engine...
__________________
May the Farce be with you...

#pr0nstars - a pimp is for life, not just for christmas
MAdnRisKy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jul 2005, 17:06   #18
Grog
Benevolent Dictator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 127
Grog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud of
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Yeah the last minute changes to Terran/Xan init really did screw over the Xans.

Up until that point they looked quite workable, but a few people were complaining about terrans & the xans got quietly screwed over at the last minute.
Grog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2005, 01:37   #19
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Yeah the last minute changes to Terran/Xan init really did screw over the Xans.

Up until that point they looked quite workable, but a few people were complaining about terrans & the xans got quietly screwed over at the last minute.
Well, to be fair Terran as a race were totally unworkable with the Peacekeeper initiative superior to the Syren. Now, terran Battleship/CR fleets require a combination Scarab/Peacekeeper fleet to counter them which is pretty fair i reckon - no race should be able to defend itself against all or 5/6 of the incoming (the only highly effective fleet is the Cath CR with Roaches).

But having said that, i too am becoming concerned about the potential for the Xan FI/CO fleet - mainly due to Sents. Whilst i personally think its a little early to declare that Xans are buggered, they are struggling at this point. I think that once Terrans reduce the fascination with Pegs and Ziks stop building FR in such a way, the pressure on Xans will be reduced to primarily other Xans and Beetles from CR Caths (CO Caths will be needing their beetles to attack). Arrowheads are more of a deterrant to Cathaars as they hate loosing ships, but the damage they will do to Sents will be significant - however like you said its simply too late then :\.

I dont know what to do
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2005, 01:58   #20
ChubbyChecker
King of The Fat Boys
 
ChubbyChecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,331
ChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriendChubbyChecker needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

This is all very interesting Newbie but where is the rest of the Zik guide??

Yes, I've started stalking you to other threads now

I might as well comment on Xans while I'm here. I find it interesting that people are complaining that Xans are having a tough time of it now yet you're saying that they will have an easier time of it later when people stop building so much anti FI ships. But what is the second most prevalent race in the top 50 (probably top 100 too) at the moment? I'll tell you, it's Xan.
__________________
They mostly come at night. Mostly.
ChubbyChecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2005, 03:28   #21
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
This is all very interesting Newbie but where is the rest of the Zik guide??
Bugger the zik guide - imo Zik guides are a hopeless proposition as it depends entirely on what you steal as to what fleet is effective. And what you steal is based on what ships you build. And what ships you build depends on what ships you've stolen. And then you just go around in circles explaining in long paragraphs (like this one is becoming) hypothetical situations where such and such a fleet which may perhaps be attainable by like 10% of Ziks if they desired it or had the skills to get it, or were otherwise able to get it, a sitation that may or may not actually arise or happen anyway. And then people go make these decisions on situations that are quite frankly based on my rambling that is imo quite arrogant as i really have nfi what other players will do during the course of the round. Indeed, i'd go so far as saying that Zik is a reactionary race - to play them best you need to work out what everyone else is doing and then exploit it. Expecting me to be able to determine what the whole planetarion community will do on a dynamic interaction level is rediculous. By extention, i dont want to be the next Nodrog and have my guides pulled to shreds during or after the round as i had predicted something incorrectly that would later become a major oversight. Tbh, i think this is already happening with Xans - though perhaps we should wait and see (w00t i just made this diatribe relevent to this thread so i dont have to delete this post \o/). Besides, most players have already made their decisions on Race and therefore what i say, correct or outline will do effectively bugger all anyway.

So Whatcha reckon?

Quote:
Yes, I've started stalking you to other threads now


Quote:
I might as well comment on Xans while I'm here. I find it interesting that people are complaining that Xans are having a tough time of it now yet you're saying that they will have an easier time of it later when people stop building so much anti FI ships. But what is the second most prevalent race in the top 50 (probably top 100 too) at the moment? I'll tell you, it's Xan.
well, tbh basing the strength of a race based on their top 100 proportion at this stage of the round is very dodgey. 50 ticks ago, terrans were totally dominating the ranks however they have largely sliped from view as they are hoarding for/building their battleships. they'll bounce back and attack Xans - many of whom have not got Frigate technology yet, and those who do havent spent the resources in ghosts to stop a proper attack yet. Ziks are about in a similar position - soon, they'll start using their heavy classes to wtfpwn hapless Xans who have been using vsh to n00b them so far this round, and/or attack terrans for their DE etc etc. Cath CR is making an appearence, and guess what?! that is also superb at walking all over Xans.

:\

/me sits up awake at night fidgeting as /me waits for incoming from the whole universe...
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2005, 06:33   #22
Grog
Benevolent Dictator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 127
Grog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud of
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, to be fair Terran as a race were totally unworkable with the Peacekeeper initiative superior to the Syren.
(
Well It may of needed to be done, it's just that it happened so quietly at the very last minute.
The stats were thought to of been finalized & then had a pretty big change right before it started ticking.

Lots of people were playing Xan based on what they thought were final stats & may not of been paying attention during that hour they had in between the stats change & tick start.

I know if i had been playing Xan i'd of been seriously annoyed with the way it happened.
Grog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2005, 20:55   #23
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Actually, for most of the time peackeeper fired same init as syren. I changed it at the last minute, as I'd meant for it to fire before the syren but somehow managed to overlook it for most of the beta, but within 24 (or maybe 48?) hours it was changed back.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2005, 14:05   #24
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Actually, for most of the time peackeeper fired same init as syren. I changed it at the last minute, as I'd meant for it to fire before the syren but somehow managed to overlook it for most of the beta, but within 24 (or maybe 48?) hours it was changed back.
I wasn't very happy when I looked at stats just after tickstart and realised peacekeeper init had been changed back, as I'd asked about half of my alliance to go xand (most of the others going cath), but overall, the decision was a good one for stats balance, but for last minute changes some form of more obvious announcement would have been nice for customer happiness.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Aug 2005, 14:41   #25
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

So it was not my imagination playing me a bad trick.
I could have sworn that a fr/de combo was a lossless attack/defence fleet against terrans
Next time, no last minute changes please.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins

Last edited by Gio2k; 23 Aug 2005 at 14:48.
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Aug 2005, 12:12   #26
Agerus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 95
Agerus can only hope to improve
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

everyone seems to have Sents these days. They make attacks with Fi fleet rather useless.

hell, some Caths have 3x more Sents than myself... LOL
Agerus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Aug 2005, 16:23   #27
TheGoaT
Old Timer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Your sisters panties
Posts: 201
TheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to behold
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

thanks to xans not being able to stop a sent or beetle defense, you can only manage to land an attack if they get 0 defense. Being a xan this round is utterly wank. I hope you change it for next round.
__________________
Round 1-6: ND, Xanadu(RedBull)
Round 13: LCH
Round 14-18: [1up]
Round 19-20: Ascendancy
Round 21: Quit
Round 30: Ascendancy
Round 75-81: DLR
TheGoaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Aug 2005, 23:25   #28
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoaT
thanks to xans not being able to stop a sent or beetle defense, you can only manage to land an attack if they get 0 defense. Being a xan this round is utterly wank. I hope you change it for next round.
I've found myself to be quite successful because of hte number of xands, there's usually a lot of FI calls with 1 tick to cover them, and therefore you often stand a reasonable chance of getting through. That said, stolen spiders (or comboing with a cath FI/CO fleet on a big zik) works wonders.

Xands also have to pay a price for the fact they can make themselves almost immune to most incs. A decent xand planet can be made pretty much bulletproof to anything smaller than a cruiser (And I've not received BS incs for ages either...).

Though you already know my suggestion; simply changing the sentinel to a FI with some quick armour beef-up for the sentinel and perhaps the arrowhead...
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Aug 2005, 03:44   #29
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
(And I've not received BS incs for ages either...).
lol, 20k Ghosts goes a long way, right?

Quote:
simply changing the sentinel to a FI with some quick armour beef-up for the sentinel and perhaps the arrowhead...
Aha, someone agrees with me . I said that to appoco at the start of the round, though the round started before he was back from his holiday .
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Aug 2005, 08:58   #30
Agerus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 95
Agerus can only hope to improve
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Sent to Fi? would be deadly...
Agerus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Aug 2005, 09:05   #31
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agerus
Sent to Fi? would be deadly...
May I ask, how so?

As of now, it's a 0 loss defence and it is hardly ever sent out on attacks. Changing it to FI would encourage attacking with it (myself, I would be very unlikely to do so unless I knew there were harpies going to be there), therefore making less available for defence and making xands more capable at attacking. I've felt them to be a more defensive race which is not as fun for the majority of players. I'm happier with getting more sleep as nothing below eta9 can hit me without a risk (eg. sentinels are 0 loss FI def, lancers are 0 loss CO def, vsharrak and pulsars are also both effective and, as attack ships, usually get spammed out by xands in big numbers).

The only issue is this may be overpowering xands to a point like in r13, where they were very very tough to crack. But with the improvement of the cathaar and hte syren/BS combo, I don't think this would be too much of an issue.

EDIT: Soveh, as for ghosts, I love them, and wish I had 20k!
Though I hate the calcs when there's 300-500 syren brought along, they still put a nice dent of around 300k value or so into those precious, precious BS!

Last edited by Gate; 25 Aug 2005 at 09:15.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Aug 2005, 20:57   #32
Colt
Mercenary
 
Colt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Todmorden
Posts: 1,192
Colt is a name known to allColt is a name known to allColt is a name known to allColt is a name known to allColt is a name known to allColt is a name known to all
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I've found myself to be quite successful because of hte number of xands, there's usually a lot of FI calls with 1 tick to cover them, and therefore you often stand a reasonable chance of getting through. That said, stolen spiders (or comboing with a cath FI/CO fleet on a big zik) works wonders.
hmm, it would be nice if a bloody cath would leave his spiders home for my tzens, bastards keep running ((
__________________
FAnG
Ascendancy
Apprime
Ultores
Colt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Sep 2005, 12:03   #33
Veedeejem!
Hibernating
 
Veedeejem!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Team Kesha
Posts: 1,621
Veedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Xandathrii Fleet Composition (R14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
hmm, it would be nice if a bloody cath would leave his spiders home for my tzens, bastards keep running ((
Alot of people prelaunch their fleet eta+11 when they go to sleep so they won't get stolen.
I gave up on trying to get spiders, it's almost impossible, in 2 weeks of constantly trying to get some i managed to steal 480 or something. It just isn't worth the fleetslot imo.
__________________
[InSomnia]
Official designated driver

[ToF] - [eXilition] - [Rock] - [Denial] - [DLR] - [eVolution] - [ODDR] - [HR] - [Ultores] - [Apprime] - [Ironborn]
Veedeejem! is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018