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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 03:41   #51
Travler
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
and who is in charge of that context?
Scholars, theologists, lawmakers, religious leaders, interpreters.
Ultimately God would be the one in charge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
it does not make sense because it self contradicts. miracles are as nothing to that.
The Bible is not a law book. It cannot make logical sense because it ultimately is a spiritual teaching. It may seem to have contradictions but further examination will show there are none.
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 08:15   #52
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Re: Religion and the truth

Even God gets lonely these days. Thats why the universe happened.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 11:14   #53
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Re: Religion and the truth

Ooh look - my post earlier has just been proven by Travler.

He's used excuse number 3
Quote:
3. "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set is suppose to be taken as THE TRUTH when if you add more to it it suddenly becomes "out of context". How many of you have goten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown up at you?
Mixed with a bit of excuse number 5
Quote:
5. "That is a miracle". Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.
And no doubt is thinking a bit of excuse number 6
Quote:
6. "God works in mysterious ways" A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 13:38   #54
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
It may seem to have contradictions but further examination will show there are none.
I just ****ing demonstrated a ****ing huge contradiction in this ****ing thread!

I demonstrated a contradiction in the bible that was so big it tore the civilised world apart.

IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE to vacuously claim that there aren't.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 14:01   #55
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
EDIT LOOK AT THIS EDIT: 1) Incorrect. However I'm not going to say why because I haven't got time.
2) is correct.
3) is correct.
4) is incorrect.
5) is incorrect.

PS. Sorry for deleting my posts. I thought they were unhelpful as I cannot be bothered to spend time on them to clarify what I mean. Frankly, I'd only get neg-repped if I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yahwe
2) the bible contains rules you ignore
3) in order to ignore some but not others you must be making a judgement
4) that judgement is based on something outside the bible
How the hell do you answer correct, correct, incorrect to that? It actually doesn't make logical sense.

"I believe everything written on the even numbered pages in my bible. I do this because it said so on page eight."
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 05:57   #56
Travler
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I just ****ing demonstrated a ****ing huge contradiction in this ****ing thread!

I demonstrated a contradiction in the bible that was so big it tore the civilised world apart.

IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE to vacuously claim that there aren't.
Look again. You have almost got it. Then you will understand.
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Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 06:27   #57
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Re: Religion and the truth

The main problem is that the Bible starts off saying, "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth." Yet scientist have very compelling evidence that the Earth and the known universe is older than the Bible scholars would admit. The scientific data takes away the faith aspect of religion and creates doubt. So then you get people saying, if scientist can prove that the Earth has been around for millions of years by studying it, then how can we believe the Bible when the first thing it says is false.

I told someone who asked me that one time, maybe it's not false, maybe it's true, maybe the Earth was created in 6 days by a higher being (God), and he made it so perfect that the scientist would find evidence that the Earth is older than it is so that we humans would have to choose to have enough faith to believe the Bible.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 07:20   #58
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Re: Religion and the truth

Religion is Christianity.

Truth is Mary had sodomy and sweaty hot sex with next-door neighbor Bob and got pregnant. To avoid being stoned to death for adultery, Mary told Joseph of her "Immaculate Conception."
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 16:21   #59
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you wrote this reply in response to this question:

how on earth can you claim to know anything about this guy called jesus from any source other than the bible???

vampire lestat's question was a good one and you have not answered it (nor have you answered my original point)

you can not treat logic as a help yourself buffet
I think you misunderstood my point. I did not claim to know anything Jesus from any source other than the Bible.

Vamp_L asked:

what inside the bible, new or old testament, makes you think you can openly flaunt many of the rules contained within it?

I should have answered it properly but my answer remains the same, essentially. Jesus offered a radical, revisionary interpretation of the Scriptures including many of the rules contained in them.
For instance, the Beatitudes offered a new attitude (or a new emphasis at least) to godly life: an attitude of humility and need (Matthew 5:1-12). Some aspects of Old Testament Law seem to have been intensified (Matthew: 21-31; anger, adultery); some appear to have been revised in full (Matthew 5:38-48; revenge, love for enemies); Jesus gives new insight into the character of God (Matthew 6: 5-15; God the Father, forgiveness).
Perhaps I was unclear. Vamp_L's question was, as you have said, a good one, and I should have answered more helpfully. I do not (should not) ignore the rules contained in the Old Testament, nor do I wish to openly flaunt them them. Jesus is clearly offering revision and annotion but he makes it clear that the Old Testament is not being discarded (Matthew 5:17-20) but rather that he is the fulfilment of the old covenant: in him the purposes and intentions of the Law reach their climax and final fulfilment. He gives a condensed, intensified, open exposition of the Law: 'So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets' (Matthew 7:12).
I've kept myself to Matthew here. I've not discussed (what Christians believe to be) the nature and implications of who Jesus was and why he came, but please excuse my laziness. Frankly I don't have too much hope that you'll read this far anyhow.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 20:04   #60
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Re: Religion and the truth

surely you're not claiming that Jesus wrote the nearly 300 Gospells?

surely you're not.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 07:32   #61
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
The main problem is that the Bible starts off saying, "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth." Yet scientist have very compelling evidence that the Earth and the known universe is older than the Bible scholars would admit. The scientific data takes away the faith aspect of religion and creates doubt. So then you get people saying, if scientist can prove that the Earth has been around for millions of years by studying it, then how can we believe the Bible when the first thing it says is false.

I told someone who asked me that one time, maybe it's not false, maybe it's true, maybe the Earth was created in 6 days by a higher being (God), and he made it so perfect that the scientist would find evidence that the Earth is older than it is so that we humans would have to choose to have enough faith to believe the Bible.
It is believed that diamonds take billions of years to form. The Bible does not say that the earth is a specific amount of time old. The first 7 "days" in the Bible could have taken billions of years to come about. The Bible was started at a time when electric light bulbs would have been seen as a miracle and nuclear technology is mostly feared even today, just look at Iran for instance.
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Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 09:47   #62
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
It is believed that diamonds take billions of years to form. The Bible does not say that the earth is a specific amount of time old. The first 7 "days" in the Bible could have taken billions of years to come about. The Bible was started at a time when electric light bulbs would have been seen as a miracle and nuclear technology is mostly feared even today, just look at Iran for instance.
So where exactly did seven days come from? So like god says to whatever muppet wrote the book of genesis "the universe is fourteen billion years old" and the interpreter guy just goes "sounds a bit weak to me" and the first guy goes "a week eh, that's pretty quick!"



Okay guys I think I've solved the mystery.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 10:32   #63
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
It is believed that diamonds take billions of years to form. The Bible does not say that the earth is a specific amount of time old. The first 7 "days" in the Bible could have taken billions of years to come about. The Bible was started at a time when electric light bulbs would have been seen as a miracle and nuclear technology is mostly feared even today, just look at Iran for instance.
If that bit of the Bible is incorrect then why not the rest of it?

Also, if you can reinterpret that bit why not the rest?

"It said that 'though shalt not kill' but what God realy meant to say was that 'though shalt not kill, unless your bored.' Where's my gun?"
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 22:57   #64
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Re: Religion and the truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
The Bible does not say that the earth is a specific amount of time old.
You are in error, the bible is quite specific in the amount of time that has passed since the creation. The Bible provides an unbroken line of lineage from Adam through to Solomon, including ages of birth and death and childbirth. With this it is a matter of simple arithmetic to figure out the time that has passed.

There is a break in the Lineage around the time of the destruction of the Temple and the Babylonian captivity, however at that point the chronology is advanced enough to be able to use known historical dates for Kings and events.

Thus, unless there is a mistake in the Bible, the world was created on October 23rd, 4004 BC, as dated by Bishop Ussher in 1650.


As an aside, whomever made up the story about how; "they knew a guy who had a friend who was dating the sister of some guy whose uncle was a priest, and THAT priest dared everyone to find errors in the bible and nobody could!", don't be an idiot.

Of course there are errors and contradictions in the Bible, dozens of them. You know who acknowledges errors and contradictions in the Bible? The Roman Catholic popes and Bishops. Even the aforementioned Bishop Ussher had to choose which book to follow when different books of the Bible gave different ages for the same person. Many, many debates, statements and ecumenical councils were convened in the early days of the Church to try and sort out these errors and contradictions. NOBODY in the RC hierarchy would ever claim there are 'no errors or contradiction in the Bible', as they are not so foolish. They would also be denying several thousand years of debate and questioning which had occurred to resolve these outstanding issues.

Seriously, if you are GOING to be a fanatic religious type, do yourself the favour of finding out at least a LITTLE bit about your own religion.
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