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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:42   #1
All Systems Go
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£40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
the title says it all really. I find this (like most of Diouf's behaviour) sickening. Can't we just deport him or something? Also, shame on Birmingham for buying him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/4579265.stm
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:44   #2
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
The comments down the bottom were very amusing, good link!

Also, Birmingham haven't signed him. Bolton are close to signing him, and they both start with B's, so I can understand your confusion.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:44   #3
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
There aren't many people outside Bolton who like the spit the dog.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:45   #4
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
he's getting it due to language problems, which is one of the 4 criteria thingeys for it- he cant speak english apparently.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:47   #5
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Exclamation Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Gawd bless Teesside.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:48   #6
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The comments down the bottom were very amusing, good link!

Also, Birmingham haven't signed him. Bolton are close to signing him, and they both start with B's, so I can understand your confusion.
I was thinking Bolton, I typed Birmingham.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:48   #7
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I was thinking Bolton, I typed Birmingham.
Bolton haven't signed him either, except on loan.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:49   #8
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Exclamation Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
he's getting it due to language problems, which is one of the 4 criteria thingeys for it- he cant speak english apparently.
I'm told that you can pay for your own advocates nowadays.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 16:53   #9
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Bolton haven't signed him either, except on loan.
Bolton are in the process of buying him, very close to end as well I believe.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 17:38   #10
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
he's getting it due to language problems, which is one of the 4 criteria thingeys for it- he cant speak english apparently.
he was granted it because if convicted he is at risk of losing his job.

this is because it is within the court's powers post conviction to ban him from attending football matches.

that wasthe reason the court gave.

however he applied via a legal aid form form A which has 10 categories for application (though the tenth is 'any other reason')

and category 5f.i) is "i shall be unable to understand the court proceedings or state my own case because: My understanding of English is inadequate"

Criminal Legal Aid is available to all and is not means tested. The reason for this is that a criminal charge is an allegation by the state against the citizen. If you have a fair society where the individual is important, then it is essential that all citizens obtain a fair trial by way of properly trained lawyers.

just as you are innocent until proven guilty, it follows that no one should have to pay for that innocence.

and before any over opinionated northerners jump in with ill thought out gibberish> let me make it plain. lawyers would be far richer if there was no legal aid
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Unread 27 May 2005, 17:42   #11
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
over-opionated southerners are fine then ?
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Unread 27 May 2005, 18:38   #12
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Exclamation Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Criminal Legal Aid is available to all and is not means tested. The reason for this is that a criminal charge is an allegation by the state against the citizen. If you have a fair society where the individual is important, then it is essential that all citizens obtain a fair trial by way of properly trained lawyers.
Obtain it from whom, though? The very state that's accusing you? It may not even be possible to get a fair trial when the state is running the courts, but if my life or property are on the line I at least want to be represented by someone who's working for me, not the state.
Quote:
just as you are innocent until proven guilty, it follows that no one should have to pay for that innocence.
Except the taxpayers who are paying the public defender's salary, of course.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 18:45   #13
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I'm told that you can pay for your own advocates nowadays.
You can pay for your own doctors and schools as well, and yet I don't see any headlines saying "Investment Banker Gets Treated at NHS Hospital!" or "Rich Parents Send Child to State School!".
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Unread 27 May 2005, 19:43   #14
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
this situation basically works thus: distasteful as it may seem, the law is functioning as it is supposed to and someone is claiming the benefits they are entitled to claim in accordance with the principles of that law. the fact that this law has failed in other situations is unfortunate but immaterial.

right yahwe?
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Unread 27 May 2005, 19:48   #15
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
If he is guilty, I would think that it is within the judges power to force him to pay legal fees (though I don't know the exact details, Yahwe will probably be able to clarify that). Given the circumstances: the fact he could afford it and has plead not guilty; if he were found guilty I would think it would be expected for him to repay the fees.

However, if he is innocent, there is no way he should be forced to pay anything at all - why should you pay to defend yourself for accusations that are false? Since people are innocent until proven guilty it also makes sense that he should get the money up front to defend himself.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 19:58   #16
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Also, shame on Birmingham for buying him.
Don't you mean hiring him? It's been a long time since you could buy and sell people in the west.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 22:35   #17
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaal Satori
Don't you mean hiring him? It's been a long time since you could buy and sell people in the west.
I dunno. Theyll have to have him working in the cotton fields and then in the mill to get good value for money I think.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 16:42   #18
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
I can't believe 20 posts oin and noone's linked to the thread from the other day about this, standards are slipping chaps.
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Unread 31 May 2005, 20:03   #19
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
I think the reason many are provoked by this is:
Quote:
There are many poor people in my constituency who have been refused legal aid.
the point i that the legal aid test is applied to everyone equally.

regardless of wealth.

there are lots of people denied legal aid, rich and poor. they are denied it because the allegation is too trivial:

eg. being drunk and in charge of a motor vehicle or a minor speeding violation or dropping litter etc etc et al.

you really are a spastic. who the hell believes a sports minister knows what they are talking about???
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Unread 31 May 2005, 20:04   #20
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Obtain it from whom, though? The very state that's accusing you? It may not even be possible to get a fair trial when the state is running the courts, but if my life or property are on the line I at least want to be represented by someone who's working for me, not the state.

Except the taxpayers who are paying the public defender's salary, of course.
In england you just get the money, then you pick the lawyer.

there are no public defenders because we believe what you have said is true.

isn't england just plain better
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Unread 31 May 2005, 22:14   #21
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Exclamation Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
In england you just get the money, then you pick the lawyer.
So do you get enough money to afford the quality of lawyer you want or the quality of lawyer the state thinks you should have?
Quote:
there are no public defenders because we believe what you have said is true.

isn't england just plain better
It's the same thing. Whether the state sets the price of 'free' legal services or the salaries of public defenders they will both be on the low side (to keep costs down and to deter fraud) so the lawyers who will tend to do the work are the ones who aren't good enough to make it in private practice (plus the odd lawyer who genuinely doesn't care about money).
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Unread 31 May 2005, 22:34   #22
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Re: £40,000 p/w star gets legal aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
So do you get enough money to afford the quality of lawyer you want or the quality of lawyer the state thinks you should have?

It's the same thing. Whether the state sets the price of 'free' legal services or the salaries of public defenders they will both be on the low side (to keep costs down and to deter fraud) so the lawyers who will tend to do the work are the ones who aren't good enough to make it in private practice (plus the odd lawyer who genuinely doesn't care about money).
its legal aid.

even the very rich get it.

there is no private paying going on (accept for the crimes that are so tiny you don't get legal aid)

so when everyone uses public money you don't get a problem, everyone gets a solicitor for the little court, a barrister for big boy court (jury trial) and a QC or 'silk' for very complex trials or for difficult questions of law.

note how the very rich footballer is still confident enough with his career to rely on legal aid funded lawyers
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