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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 13:35   #351
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
Yes, the comparison was utterly rediculous, trying to indicate how rediculous your initial comparison between Fabregas and Xabi Alonso was.
Yes, comparing a midfielder to a midfielder is equally ridiculous as comparing a goalkeeper to a trequarista.

Quote:
I'm the one imagining things? Didn't you claim Spain has a scoring issue? Perhaps you should check the fact yourself before making such rediculous statements.
I'm claiming Spain has had scoring issues through the entire tournament and their 1 goal per game pedigree is a testament to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
This WC they fail to score, but that's however not what you initially claimed. You claimed Spain had a scoring issue which everyone was already aware of, indicating it's been an issue for quite some time now.
Yes, it's been evident since their first game in the tournament against Swizerland.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
What a load of shit. This time you can't even blame it on a referee. The better team won that game. The prodigal sons of Spain were wasteful, and eventually dismantled by the Swiss. Winning games is not a matter of flavour or preference. Benaglio was just unbeaten behind Swiss defense. If you can't put the ball in the net on 22 shots, you've been stopped by someone who played better than you.
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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 13:37   #352
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
I'm claiming Spain has had scoring issues through the entire tournament and their 1 goal per game pedigree is a testament to it.
No, you claimed Spain had a scoring issue but everyone knew that already. Hence indicating that it's been going on for a while.

Next time, do specify you're talking about the WC and the WC only.
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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 13:40   #353
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
No, you claimed Spain had a scoring issue but everyone knew that already. Hence indicating that it's been going on for a while.

Next time, do specify you're talking about the WC and the WC only.
In fact I didn't specify any date or time. I've seen it since their first game, to me it isn't news that they're continuing to it. I'm sorry to have broken it to you now if it was fresh news of the day to you. On a world cup thread I mostly do discuss world cup. To avoid confusions on your side, I'm talking specifically about the 2010 Men's World Cup in South Africa - not say 2010 Women's World Cup or 1978 Men's World Cup.

BOOM.
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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 13:47   #354
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
In fact I didn't specify any date or time. I've seen it since their first game, to me it isn't news that they're continuing to it. I'm sorry to have broken it to you now if it was fresh news of the day to you. On a world cup thread I mostly do discuss world cup. To avoid confusions on your side, I'm talking specifically about the 2010 Men's World Cup in South Africa - not say 2010 Women's World Cup or 1978 Men's World Cup.

BOOM.
Let me know when you're acting mature again, then I'll bother continuing. As this is well ... pathetic.
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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 13:47   #355
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Let's see what the Spanish players themselves think.

"Sometimes we play too much. We try to play a lot and we don't shoot as many times as we want". Gerard Pique.

"We should have scored more goals, but one from Puyol has put us in the final." David Villa.

Not implying that they feel they need to put more goals and shots in instead of passing to the end and failing to score.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjel
Let me know when you're acting mature again, then I'll bother continuing. As this is well ... pathetic.
Let me know when pot's ready to address kettle's argument instead of dodging it (and probably intentionally misinterpreting it). This is well... "Pathetic".

Last edited by Tietäjä; 8 Jul 2010 at 13:56.
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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 13:57   #356
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Lol, is this "Kjel" thing a lame attempt of yours to try and provoke me? Who's the pathetic one now?

Also, at no point did I contest the fact that Spain doesn't score much this WC. Stop focussing on something I never claimed.

And yeah, clearly I'm intentionally misinterpreting you. Then again, you and only you seem to know the truth aye.
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Unread 8 Jul 2010, 14:34   #357
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
Lol, is this "Kjel" thing a lame attempt of yours to try and provoke me? Who's the pathetic one now?
No, I have been doing it all along in case you didn't notice. When I manually write quote tags and I can't be arsed to refer to single posts on quotes since it's not really necessary on such a small thread. I've done it on your posts before, I've done it on Vdj's posts, yet only now, and only you seem to throw a hissy fit about it - which I guess tells a lot.

Quote:
Stop focussing on something I never claimed.
And I never claimed ANYTHING, I'd like to underpin, ANYTHING, about Euro 2008, stop focusing on something I never claimed. Yet you seem to claim I did. Or what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjel
I merely proved you wrong.

You said: Spain has a scoring issue
I replied: Spain scored 28 goals in 10 games, avg of 2.8 goals a match. Only England scored more goals during the qualifying stages.

Should I bring the statistcs of Euro 2008 aswell? those will also show that Spain doesn't have a scoring issue.
It's a World Cup 2010 thread, so I assumed if I claim that Spain has a scoring issue I don't need to discuss European Championships 2008. I didn't expect you to NOT consider it a strawman to bring Euro 2008 to the discussion. Obviously, you found it relevant.

You seem to consider that if I say it's not exactly news that Spain has a scoring issue - which they've had since their first game - a counter-argument is to "bring Euro 2008" to the discussion. Nice argument bro, keep up the good work.

Quote:
Also, at no point did I contest the fact that Spain doesn't score much this WC

Last edited by Tietäjä; 8 Jul 2010 at 14:41.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 07:24   #358
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
No, I have been doing it all along in case you didn't notice. When I manually write quote tags and I can't be arsed to refer to single posts on quotes since it's not really necessary on such a small thread. I've done it on your posts before, I've done it on Vdj's posts, yet only now, and only you seem to throw a hissy fit about it - which I guess tells a lot.
I am deeply offended though that you call me Vdj when it's clearly VdM

Other than that I agree with most of the things you've said in this thread about Spain and their scoring problem / playing style / ...

They did not have this in qualifying or EC 2008, but this is WC 2010.
And what a disappointing world cup it has been. Not even sure I'm gonna watch the final sunday. Cba to watch a boring game untill sneijder or villa scores another lucky goal.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 08:55   #359
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
And what a disappointing world cup it has been. Not even sure I'm gonna watch the final sunday. Cba to watch a boring game untill sneijder or villa scores another lucky goal.
Yeah. I'll watch it. I'm praying it doesn't wind up a chessfest. Hopefully Germany and Uruguay will at least put out an interesting third place playoff (if anyone even truly cares at that point).
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:10   #360
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
No, I have been doing it all along in case you didn't notice. When I manually write quote tags and I can't be arsed to refer to single posts on quotes since it's not really necessary on such a small thread. I've done it on your posts before, I've done it on Vdj's posts, yet only now, and only you seem to throw a hissy fit about it - which I guess tells a lot.
Or just use Copy/Paste, it works wonders. Pple used to call me Kjel 5 years ago in an attempt to piss me off. No doubt you're quite aware of that. Whether you do this intentionally or not, I guess I'll never know.

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
You seem to consider that if I say it's not exactly news that Spain has a scoring issue - which they've had since their first game - a counter-argument is to "bring Euro 2008" to the discussion. Nice argument bro, keep up the good work.
Look, you said Spain had a scoring issue. You didn't specify you meant in this tournament. So I assumed you meant in general, especially if you state "but we all knew that". Hence I mentioned the WC 2010 Qualifying to show you that Spain DOES score alot of goals with their current gamestyle. I also said I could get examples from Euro 2008 to support my statement.

The arguement about "I figured you'd realise it was about WC 2010 only as this is the thread about it" is kinda lame tbh. Because you don't always refer to a team and then only mean this WC.

Like: France has a team of Ego tripping spoiled players. Is it about WC 2010? Yes, for sure. Is it ONLY about WC 2010? Not at all, we all know France has this additude for many years now, hence if someone makes that statement, I assume it's based on more then just the last few weeks.

Hence the assumption of "Spain has a scoring problem, but we all knew this already".

So if that was about this WC alone, which you could have specified, then fair enough. Allthough I rather win 1-0 against every team then win 4-0 and then get knocked out. Allthough I won't deny that seeing more goals is something everyone always applauds, obviously.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:12   #361
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
I am deeply offended though that you call me Vdj when it's clearly VdM

Other than that I agree with most of the things you've said in this thread about Spain and their scoring problem / playing style / ...

They did not have this in qualifying or EC 2008, but this is WC 2010.
And what a disappointing world cup it has been. Not even sure I'm gonna watch the final sunday. Cba to watch a boring game untill sneijder or villa scores another lucky goal.
Lol, so now it has come this far that you're calling the 5 goals Villa made "lucky goals"?
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:15   #362
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Yeah. I'll watch it. I'm praying it doesn't wind up a chessfest. Hopefully Germany and Uruguay will at least put out an interesting third place playoff (if anyone even truly cares at that point).
Evil evil Spain for ruining the WC for you with their dull chessfest football!!
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:35   #363
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Lol, so now it has come this far that you're calling the 5 goals Villa made "lucky goals"?
Some of the goals (kabouter)Wesley Sneijder has scored have been very lucky.
Some of Villa's goals have been kinda lucky too. Lucky he's in the right place for the rebound...
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:37   #364
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
Evil evil Spain for ruining the WC for you with their dull chessfest football!!
They haven't "ruined" the WC, just made it pretty boring.
Them playing the dutch which have also played boring football doesn't excite me much and I can understand anybody that isn't excited about it too...
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:40   #365
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
Some of the goals (kabouter)Wesley Sneijder has scored have been very lucky.
Some of Villa's goals have been kinda lucky too. Lucky he's in the right place for the rebound...
So a rebound is a lucky goal? Clever positioning is a lucky goal? Finishing a mistake from the keeper (Villa's goal against Chile, first one) is a lucky goal?

In that case 90% of the goals in soccer are lucky, as in most cases the defenders make an error (be it not able to defend the attacker), hence "lucky" that they managed to beat the defender and scored.

Sorry, but none of what you call are lucky goals. The ONLY goal from Villa I'd consider Lucky, was his 2nd against Honduras, which was a deviated ball, I agree.

But which team didn't score atleast once this WC with a deviated ball?
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:40   #366
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

I don't get why people say this has been such a boring world cup. I thought the World Cup, apart from the first 16 matches of the group stage, has just gotten better and better. And from the QF and on it has been brilliant.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:47   #367
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
They haven't "ruined" the WC, just made it pretty boring.
Them playing the dutch which have also played boring football doesn't excite me much and I can understand anybody that isn't excited about it too...
I agree. Spain should have started with a completely new playing style, resulting in horrible losses (but great games). All Spanish supporters would have been proud. Unlike now, I can't imagine a single Spanish supporter to be happy with their team reaching the finals ...

Their playing style PROVED to be extremely succesful both in EC2008 and the qualifying for this tournament. It delivered alot of goals (28) and nearly no goals against (only 5). So why the hell should they have started playing differently? Why the hell should they start playing a completely new system that none of the players are used to? Purely for your amusement?

This is how Spain plays. It proves to be succesful. Sadly it renders less goals as it did pre WC2010.

It actually sounds like you and Tietaya are blaming Spain for using their current playstyle. It looks like you'd expect them to play completely differently, hence alot less succesful, just to pleasure the neutral fans.

And I'm sure there are quite alot of humans who enjoy to watch their playingstyle.

Don't know about Holland, not following them actively to make analysis about them.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 09:48   #368
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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I don't get why people say this has been such a boring world cup. I thought the World Cup, apart from the first 16 matches of the group stage, has just gotten better and better. And from the QF and on it has been brilliant.
I agree. I guess some say it because their favourite team got beaten by a team they don't appear to like.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 10:18   #369
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Christ, people don't have anything against Spain per say dude, it's just that on paper they are the best team in the tournament with a array of exceptionally gifted players all across the field. In Euro 2008 they delivered some of the most breathtaking football seen in a long time, so obviously people are a bit dissapointed that they did not, in their(and mine) opinion, live up to this in this World Cup where they have really struggled with creating chances and overall been a fairly boring team to watch.

I honestly think that Spain playing with two defensive midfielders is holding them back quite a bit offensively, but I'm guessing(and he might be very right in this although I'm not so sure) Del Bosque feels that they will be too open defensively if they just use Busquets or Alonso.

Bottom line: People don't dislike Spain, they are just dissapointed that they haven't lived up to the enormous potential that they inhibit.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 10:24   #370
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Christ, people don't have anything against Spain per say dude, it's just that on paper they are the best team in the tournament with a array of exceptionally gifted players all across the field. In Euro 2008 they delivered some of the most breathtaking football seen in a long time, so obviously people are a bit dissapointed that they did not, in their(and mine) opinion, live up to this in this World Cup where they have really struggled with creating chances and overall been a fairly boring team to watch.

I honestly think that Spain playing with two defensive midfielders is holding them back quite a bit offensively, but I'm guessing(and he might be very right in this although I'm not so sure) Del Bosque feels that they will be too open defensively if they just use Busquets or Alonso.

Bottom line: People don't dislike Spain, they are just dissapointed that they haven't lived up to the enormous potential that they inhibit.
They only received 5 goals in qualifying and only 2 on this WC. So yeah, playing with 2 def midfielders (allthough Alonso isn't a pure DM type) means less offensive play but a very solid defensive display. If they only played with 1 DM, then Germany could have put more pressure, Schweinsteiger would be more involved in the game and Germany would have been alot more dangereous.

Also, most teams know how Spain plays, something alot of teams had to learn the hard way in Euro 2008. Swiss being the prime example. Teams close the game big time when playing Spain and hope to score on the counter.

And then we have the whole Torres issue, who finally got replaced by Pedro.

Same will happen in the final really. Holland will tune their game to that of Spain. Eventhough they claim they won't (like Germany claimed so aswell ...).

Let's hope not.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 10:26   #371
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

And I dissagree about them being a boring team to watch. I enjoy watching them, I did 2 years ago and I certainly do right now.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 10:51   #372
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
And I dissagree about them being a boring team to watch. I enjoy watching them, I did 2 years ago and I certainly do right now.
I enjoyed watching them 2 years ago, but don't enjoy watching them this year.
In 2008 they were more fast paced than now (atleast that's how i remember it!), it had more direction in it and created more chances.
Now all they appear to be doing is very slowly moving up to the opponents half of the field, then pass it around there for about 5 minutes, hoping suddenly out of nowhere an opening in the centre will appear (which rarely happens).
Ofcourse the way they play possession is impressive, but I just get the feeling they're not going anywhere with it... Just playing possession caus they don't know what else to do with the ball.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 10:53   #373
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
No doubt you're quite aware of that.
No, I'm not aware. You're making gross assumptions on how much attention I actually pay to what people call you.



Quote:
Look, you said Spain had a scoring issue. You didn't specify you meant in this tournament. So I assumed you meant in general, especially if you state "but we all knew that".
I've specified to you now multiple times what I said since their first game against Swizerland - failure to create good chances, prodigal on many chances they get. The scoring issue they had against Germany isn't anything new. It's something that has been around for a while now, since they first stepped their foot into the South American World Cup turfs. I'm sorry if you didn't see their inability to convert goals against Swizerland, and pretty much on every game thereafter.

Quote:
The arguement about "I figured you'd realise it was about WC 2010 only as this is the thread about it" is kinda lame tbh. Because you don't always refer to a team and then only mean this WC.
Don't make me set up a new strawman picture.

Quote:
Hence the assumption of "Spain has a scoring problem, but we all knew this already".
I didn't expect them to score much against Germany, mostly because we all know they've had a scoring issue for a while now. At least for what I've seen. I'm not expecting them to hit in too many against Netherlands either, but thumbs up if they actually do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjel
Tietaya
ARE YOU TRYING TO INTENTIONALLY WIND ME UP BY TYPING MY NAME LIKE THAT? I'm sure you know people have mistyped it in an attempt to wind me up since 1960. I'll never know if that was just a typo or a malignant post! OMG! You know, COPY PASTE WORKS if you're having trouble typing it! See how childish I can be too if I imitate you hard enough.

Quote:
I agree. I guess some say it because their favourite team got beaten by a team they don't appear to like.
No, it's just extremely boring to watch to me, and to certain other people. I've multiple times stated why I think this happens, and how I think it's a matter of preference, but the fact that Ghana and Italy are both out doesn't make me want to see more entertaining football any less.

Quote:
So a rebound is a lucky goal? Clever positioning is a lucky goal? Finishing a mistake from the keeper (Villa's goal against Chile, first one) is a lucky goal?
See here's your bias: someone else thinks Villa scores lucky (I didn't say this mind you), you think it was skill. You think Xabi Alonso hitting bar was unlucky (someone else, like me, would just say, well, hitting the bars don't count as goals).

Quote:
It actually sounds like you and Tietaya are blaming Spain for using their current playstyle. It looks like you'd expect them to play completely differently, hence alot less succesful, just to pleasure the neutral fans.
I already thoroughly explained why I think this is happening, if you didn't read it, then hands up, I can't help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isil
I don't get why people say this has been such a boring world cup. I thought the World Cup, apart from the first 16 matches of the group stage, has just gotten better and better. And from the QF and on it has been brilliant.
There's been many very good games yeah. Argentina, Uruguay, Ghana, Germany, and Netherlands have all contributed to streaks of very entertaining football. However, if I'd have to name a few of the most dull games I've witnessed, I'd rank Swizerland - Spain and Spain - Portugal quite high on the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjel
The shot of Xabi Alonso was unlucky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjel
Sorry, but none of what you call are lucky goals.
Just to elaborate. It's a question of flavour.



Yawn.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vdj
Just playing possession caus they don't know what else to do with the ball.
What I find positive though is that even their own players admit this statement: some of them feel they're passing too much and putting too little efforts. Hopefully they'll work on it for the final.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:00   #374
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

That's the thing though. The reason why they aren't playing like they did two years ago is because they have swapped out a brilliant David Silva, who is creative and loves attacking defenders, a deadly Fernando Torres, and Marcos Senna, one of the best defensive midfielders in the game when it comes to breaking up play and man-marking, with two defensive midfielders, who primarily pass the ball sideways or back to Pique, and a Torres who is totally out of form.

This then means that instead of passing the ball around quickly, and usually forward, and threatening the opposition, they are now pretty much passing the ball sideways moving up the pitch at a very slow pace. When they finally reach the area around the opponents 16 yard box they either a) dont come up with anything to do b) pull of a shitty shot(hello Alonso), or hope that David Villa will pull something out of his hat.
Admittedly this got a bit better in the match against Germany, they finally got rid of Torres, but i daresay that if they ditched Xabi Alonso and got in Fabregas or Silva we would see Spain more the way they were in 2008 and that would be fantastic.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:02   #375
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
but i daresay that if they ditched Xabi Alonso and got in Fabregas or Silva we would see Spain more the way they were in 2008 and that would be fantastic.
I'd love to see more Fabregas too. He's such a good all-around midfielder and he's very good at pacing up and coming up with the tough decisions necessary in tough places to create chances. I guess though we'll see a lineup identical to the semi-final game though. That, and I do think Fabregas is the best all around midfielder in the game right now, why he's benched is probably due to the club synergy between Busquets, Xavi, and Iniesta, and the (tactical?) necessity to play a second holding midfielder along Busquets.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:03   #376
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Oh no doubt, 99% sure it will be the same lineup.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:09   #377
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Well, pple used it for years to piss me off (and it did back then, now I'm all grown up) :-)

I'm biassed but you sure are aswell in your replies, m8.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:15   #378
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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That's the thing though. The reason why they aren't playing like they did two years ago is because they have swapped out a brilliant David Silva, who is creative and loves attacking defenders, a deadly Fernando Torres, and Marcos Senna, one of the best defensive midfielders in the game when it comes to breaking up play and man-marking, with two defensive midfielders, who primarily pass the ball sideways or back to Pique, and a Torres who is totally out of form.

This then means that instead of passing the ball around quickly, and usually forward, and threatening the opposition, they are now pretty much passing the ball sideways moving up the pitch at a very slow pace. When they finally reach the area around the opponents 16 yard box they either a) dont come up with anything to do b) pull of a shitty shot(hello Alonso), or hope that David Villa will pull something out of his hat.
Admittedly this got a bit better in the match against Germany, they finally got rid of Torres, but i daresay that if they ditched Xabi Alonso and got in Fabregas or Silva we would see Spain more the way they were in 2008 and that would be fantastic.
In all fairness, David Silva is nowhere near his level of 2 years ago. The reason why Barca prefers to buy Mata over Silva says alot.

Same goes for Senna. Back then I agree he was one of the best defensive midfielders. Nowadays, Busquets is alot stronger and I've yet to see a midfielder in Spain that recovers more balls then Xabi Alonso.

I'm also not confident in Fabregas able to display the same form as in 2008, especially after his long injury. That's also why Pedro started instead of Fabregas or Silva.

I'd trade out Busquets rather then Xabi alonso, for the sheer fact that Xabi has a much better crossing and alot more ball recovery, which is essentially his primary task.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:17   #379
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
I'd love to see more Fabregas too. He's such a good all-around midfielder and he's very good at pacing up and coming up with the tough decisions necessary in tough places to create chances. I guess though we'll see a lineup identical to the semi-final game though. That, and I do think Fabregas is the best all around midfielder in the game right now, why he's benched is probably due to the club synergy between Busquets, Xavi, and Iniesta, and the (tactical?) necessity to play a second holding midfielder along Busquets.
Such synergy is often quite crucial. I'd replace Busquets rather then Xabi Alonso, for above mentionned reasons.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:19   #380
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Well, pple used it for years to piss me off (and it did back then, now I'm all grown up) :-)
So why do you twist my name then? Because you're all grown up? I see. I'd understand if you simply cut it shorter, but surely it's just your mature malicious attitude changing it alltogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjel
The reason why Barca prefers to buy Mata over Silva says alot.
Or the fact that City simply had a lot of money to slam in for Silva.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjel
I'm also not confident in Fabregas able to display the same form as in 2008, especially after his long injury
He wasn't too bad in premier league in the few games he played after his return.

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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:20   #381
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

What form in 2008? Fabregas hardly played for Spain then. Fabregas has looked very sharp during this WC and I am convinced he would do very well if given the chance.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:27   #382
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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What form in 2008? Fabregas hardly played for Spain then. Fabregas has looked very sharp during this WC and I am convinced he would do very well if given the chance.
He did actually play quite well - I don't think he featured starting 11 until the final though.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:27   #383
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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So why do you twist my name then? Because you're all grown up? I see. I'd understand if you simply cut it shorter, but surely it's just your mature malicious attitude changing it alltogether.



Or the fact that City simply had a lot of money to slam in for Silva.



He wasn't too bad in premier league in the few games he played after his return.
If Barca wanted Silva, Silva would have opted for Barca. I've been following the Spanish Premier League and David Silva is not playing as well as he did 2 years ago. I'm sure Del Bosque or his scouts noticed the same, otherwise he'd have prefered him above Pedro.

I'm not saying Fabregas was bad, I'm saying he's not yet the super player we know he could be. He misses match rythm, like Torres.

And would you just drop the name stuff ok? I already said pple used it to piss me of. You said you didn't know, case closed. Why you keep pushing and provocing that subject??? I know why, so please drop it.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:29   #384
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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What form in 2008? Fabregas hardly played for Spain then. Fabregas has looked very sharp during this WC and I am convinced he would do very well if given the chance.
The form he had the last few years at Arsenal, the reason why Barcelona is so eager trying to sign him?

Why doesn't he play for Spain? Simply because Xavi and Iniesta are better imo and because Del bosque doesn't see the need to play with wingers if both Torres and Villa are in the lineup.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:29   #385
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

For the love of god guys, noone cares about the namecalling.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:31   #386
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Quote:
I'm not saying Fabregas was bad, I'm saying he's not yet the super player we know he could be. He misses match rythm, like Torres.
I think Spain currently plays too slow for Torres - Torres isn't as technical as Villa is, and he shines best at fast attacks - and Spain right now are playing at a very, very slow tempo. And yeah, he's not on top of his form either. It takes quite a good, technical, agile in little space striker to be able to perform in the type of game Spain right now plays which more or less means that you'll never have much space since defending team will always have time to drop deep due to the slow pace of the game.

Quote:
Why you keep pushing and provocing that subject??? I know why, so please drop it.
I'm just enquiring why you chose to twist my name. I'll just assume you did it because you're all grown up and mature now.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:32   #387
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post

Why doesn't he play for Spain? Simply because Xavi and Iniesta are better imo and because Del bosque doesn't see the need to play with wingers if both Torres and Villa are in the lineup.
Undoubtedly Xavi and Iniesta are brilliant footballers, and although which ones are the best of the three is up for debate, Del Bosque obviously doesn't want to change a winning formula (Xavi + Iniesta). What I think that Fabregas offers that the two others doesn't, and this is something Spain in my opinion needs, is the cutting-edge infront of goal. Fabregas is very good at shooting, getting into the box, and also taking long runs in behind defenders.
Fabregas isn't a winger though.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:34   #388
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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I'm just enquiring why you chose to twist my name. I'll just assume you did it because you're all grown up and mature now.
**** off, seriously. There is no reason why I did, I just typed it and couldn't be arsed to check for ¨ or other signs.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:37   #389
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Undoubtedly Xavi and Iniesta are brilliant footballers, and although which ones are the best of the three is up for debate, Del Bosque obviously doesn't want to change a winning formula (Xavi + Iniesta). What I think that Fabregas offers that the two others doesn't, and this is something Spain in my opinion needs, is the cutting-edge infront of goal. Fabregas is very good at shooting, getting into the box, and also taking long runs in behind defenders.
Fabregas isn't a winger though.
I don't blame him for not changing a winning team. Sure you could replace either of them with Fabregas and I'm sure you'll have more cutting-edge infront of the goal. You'd however miss out on the skills that Xavi and Iniesta have over Fabregas.

It's more a luxury problem. I'm however no fan of playing Fabregas next to Villa, as 2nd srtiker.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:38   #390
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

And that is why I advocated for him to replace on of the defensive midfielders.......
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:40   #391
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Undoubtedly Xavi and Iniesta are brilliant footballers, and although which ones are the best of the three is up for debate, Del Bosque obviously doesn't want to change a winning formula (Xavi + Iniesta).
The thing that might or might not screw up the winning formula is, that while they've won solid, and been in possession, on scoreboard all their victories have been very narrow. It doesn't take more than one setback goal (ie. like against Swizerland) for the puzzle to take a big hit. It's not the optimal way like that, but then again their defense has been by far the best in the tournament, and even Casillas has picked up form.

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Originally Posted by Isil
And that is why I advocated for him to replace on of the defensive midfielders
Doubt there'd be too much skill lost with dropping Xabi Alonso!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Keldoran
**** off, seriously. There is no reason why I did, I just typed it and couldn't be arsed to check for ¨ or other signs.
Sorry. "j" is a difficult sign.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:42   #392
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
And that is why I advocated for him to replace on of the defensive midfielders.......
Or replace Busquets with Silva, put Silva and Pedro as wingers, Xavi and Iniesta as attacking midfielders and Xabi Alonso as defensive/controlling.

As I think Fabregas will lack condition and gametime due to his injury.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:43   #393
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Yes that was the other option I proposed.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:45   #394
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
Doubt there'd be too much skill lost with dropping Xabi Alonso!
The fact you'd prefer Busquets above Alonso is beyond me. The press was ethousiastic about some of his games (e.g. against Portugal he was by far the best Spanish player on the field). But the press is obviously wrong.

Also noticed this year how bad Real Madrid was when Alonso was out due to injury? They need this type of player, as does Spain.

And yeah, keep acting immature with the name thing. I asked you to get over it and move on, but I have no doubt you will again refer to it in your next reply.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:46   #395
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Yes that was the other option I proposed.
I guess Del Bosque knows what he's doing, right?
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:48   #396
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

What? Obviously he does, but so do I

If I was in Del Bosque's shoes I would probably do the same as he is doing as it's less risky, but as an outsider, naturally, I have different opinions.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 11:50   #397
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
The fact you'd prefer Busquets above Alonso is beyond me. The press was ethousiastic about some of his games (e.g. against Portugal he was by far the best Spanish player on the field). But the press is obviously wrong.
I don't rate Xabi Alonso that high, and while I don't think Busquets is far better, he does have the advantage of having played a lot with Iniesta and Xavi.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 12:47   #398
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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What? Obviously he does, but so do I

If I was in Del Bosque's shoes I would probably do the same as he is doing as it's less risky, but as an outsider, naturally, I have different opinions.
If he would drastically change his playstyle now and then they lose against Holland, it'll be drama. If they keep their current playstyle and lose against Holland, they'll just admit Holland was the better team

So yeah, less risky.
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 12:49   #399
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

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I don't rate Xabi Alonso that high, and while I don't think Busquets is far better, he does have the advantage of having played a lot with Iniesta and Xavi.
In Barcelona he has, in Spain he hasn't as Busquets is rather new to the Spanish squad.

And it's indeed obvious that you don't rate him particularly high, or most spanish players
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Unread 9 Jul 2010, 12:56   #400
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Re: World Cup Prediction Thread

Argosfnlksnfslknfsklnfslkfnslknfslfnslfn *SLAMS FIST INTO DESK*
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