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Unread 27 Aug 2005, 16:47   #1
Nusselt
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[cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

I don't normally watch but these kinds of matches are interesting, anyone else watching? aussies following on.
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Unread 27 Aug 2005, 19:16   #2
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Im watching, this test isnt as exciting as the last two, but to hell with that, we are whooping those aussie asses just like they deserve.
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Unread 27 Aug 2005, 19:56   #3
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Cricket, about as exciting as watching flies on shit.
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Unread 27 Aug 2005, 19:59   #4
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
Cricket, about as exciting as watching flies on shit.
You could look at it like that or you could look at it as England playing an old enemy, Australia, at something they haven't won at for 18 years and doing rather well.
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Unread 27 Aug 2005, 22:06   #5
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

I've never watched cricket, but I am enjoying this series incredibly.

Oh yeah: http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...72&postcount=9
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Unread 27 Aug 2005, 22:12   #6
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Freddie Flintoff

The Aussies dont know what's hit them.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 00:08   #7
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

So how many of you proved me wrong and DID put your money where your mouths are?
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 00:12   #8
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
So how many of you proved me wrong and DID put your money where your mouths are?
I'd have put my money on Australia as i said, they're not out of it yet unfortunately. I can't see us chasing down any more than 180 batting second so let's hope they have another collapse amongst the tail and Lee doesn't hit Harmy out of the ground this time round!
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 01:07   #9
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
So how many of you proved me wrong and DID put your money where your mouths are?
I have a bet on England to win at about 12/5 made the day the Aussies lost to Bangladesh.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 01:12   #10
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Good for you. Pos rep for taking the bait and getting it right up me, and having the baws.

Who knows what will happen in the final test, but england surely have this one in the bag.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 01:17   #11
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Who knows what will happen in the final test, but england surely have this one in the bag.
As a Scot you will be aware just how many times England throw things away. Whatever sport it be, whenever it be, something always ****s us up - be in ourselves, bad luck or rain. As an Englishman I know never to take anything involving England and sport as granted!
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 01:22   #12
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

and all the world over each nation's the same
they've simply no notion of playing the game
they argue with umpires
they cheer when they've won
and they practice beforehand which ruins the fun
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 16:09   #13
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Just lost our first wicket, surely we can't lose this?
Nah, I'm sure we can't.
I predict one more wicket loss.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 16:13   #14
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Just lost our first wicket, surely we can't lose this?
Nah, I'm sure we can't.
I predict one more wicket loss.
We will win by 6 wickets in my opinion.

Strauss will get himself out to Warne, Bell will give his wicket away and then someone else will get themselves out playing a shot.

I hope anyway heh. Slightly nervous at the moment.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 16:20   #15
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

****ing Warne
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 16:24   #16
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
and all the world over each nation's the same
they've simply no notion of playing the game
they argue with umpires
they cheer when they've won
and they practice beforehand which ruins the fun
The English are moral, the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 16:30   #17
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

I hate it how Warne is so damn good.

surely the man of the series should be him or freddie. All-rounders have been crucial to both teams this entire series (so far).
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 16:43   #18
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Up there Warne
In there and fight
Out there and at 'em
Show 'em your might
Up there Warne
Show 'em your height
Fight like the devil
The crowd's on your side

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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 17:05   #19
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

For christ sake what was Bell doing. It's making me a nervous wreck by here.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 17:15   #20
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

if they **** this up...ill, well ill be very upset.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 18:17   #21
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

I can't watch anymore!

I will be soo pissed off if they screw this up.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 18:19   #22
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Jones seems to be trying his best to lose his position.

I can't cope with this, too bloody tense ffs. I can't believe it has even come down to this.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 18:33   #23
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Warne

28 & 2
8 & 42
90 & 34
0 & 45

249 runs so far

Flintoff

0 & 3
68 & 73
46 & 4
102 & 26

325 runs so far

Warne

2 & 4
4 & 6
4 & 0
4 & 4

28 wickets so far

Flintoff

2 & 2
3 & 4
1 & 4
1 & 2

19 wickets so far


75 runs or 9 wickets? No question really. Warne > Flintoff
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 18:43   #24
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh

75 runs or 9 wickets? No question really. Warne > Flintoff
yes but unfortunately in this game the winner (or the saver) usually gets the man of match/series awards. Warne deserves this but even if his stats are as good next match, and assuming england win freddie will probably get it.

warne should get man of the match for this game at least. he was robbed of it last time (ponting shouldn't have got it)

For a bowler to be able to get such a great economy, provide plenty of runs as a tailender and so many wickets, he has been by far the best performer of the series.

edit: flintoff getting man of the match. My point exactly. Shane deserved it more.

Last edited by Zar; 28 Aug 2005 at 18:52.
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 18:57   #25
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
For a bowler to be able to get such a great economy, provide plenty of runs as a tailender and so many wickets, he has been by far the best performer of the series.

edit: flintoff getting man of the match. My point exactly. Shane deserved it more.

Yup i completly agree, england before this test seemed to haave the most problems with him out of all the aussies..


They tried hard to give to the aussies but decicded not to in the end
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Unread 28 Aug 2005, 21:07   #26
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
75 runs or 9 wickets? No question really. Warne > Flintoff
The thing about Cricket is that statistics like that don't show enough.

Warne has knocked over a lot of tail enders and the other bowlers haven't performed too well.

Whereas the wickets have been shared amongst the english bowlers.

And those 75 runs have been vital! I wouldn't have fancied our chances of getting another 30 runs in this test and we only won the Edgbaston test by 2.


I am so relieved we won this one. We've dominated the last 3 tests.
Not so sure about the 5th one tho...
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 00:26   #27
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
The thing about Cricket is that statistics like that don't show enough.

Warne has knocked over a lot of tail enders and the other bowlers haven't performed too well.

Whereas the wickets have been shared amongst the english bowlers.

And those 75 runs have been vital! I wouldn't have fancied our chances of getting another 30 runs in this test and we only won the Edgbaston test by 2.


I am so relieved we won this one. We've dominated the last 3 tests.
Not so sure about the 5th one tho...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Although it is fair to say that Warne probably has been the best, I would be interested to know how many of those wickets were against tail enders. I noted in the last test that at some point rather than declaring England were knocking it about, and thus 3-4 wickets were lost for no real reason. Furthermore given that Aussie bowlers seem to keep getting injured presumably he has had more opportunity to gain wickets than Flintoff.
"Statistics dont show enough" - indeed, they dont give Warne enough credit. They dont take into account bad umpiring - but even more than that, they dont take into account that almost every single ball warne bowled, the batsmen were in serious ****ing trouble. I dont think even the most patriotic amongst you can put your heart and say that Flintoff, or indeed, any of the english bowlers individually or collectively have the same effect, or aura. Warne could get someone out 5/6 balls. Indeed, its a credit to the english batsmen that he doesnt.

As for dominating 3 tests, although im glad for you (as ive stated in #forums many times, im supporting england vaguely, with the exception of when that wank geoffrey boycott is commentating - then i want you to lose horribly), thats pretty much bollocks. You would have lost the ashes already had it not been for three factors -

a/ Gilchrist being pretty shit all series. No one could have predicted that.
b/ Terrible umpring that has consistently gone in Englands favour, whether batting or bowling. I suppose this is the "home advantage", but i doubt many of you are going to come on here and tell me that Katich was even remotely out. Every decision thats been 50/50 this year has gone for England. Thats a fact, people. Youve played well, but what if katich hadnt been given out and youd got another 30 runs to chase, for example? Reckon Hoggard, Harmison, Giles, and a crocked jones would have got that? We'll never know, thats the point. So you cannot POSSIBLY claim to have "dominated" the series when its swung your way on umpires decisions.
c/ Dropped catches by australia. Pietersen has dropped a lot for you, but even still, aus lead in that unenviable category. Though i concede this isnt "luck", but skill. You have to have the skill to field the ball. But it doesnt stop it being a reason why you're winning


As for the tail enders point..

While im writing this sentence, im slightly drunk, and unaware of the result. So im about to vindicate myself, or make myself look a tit.

What im going to do is assign points for each wicket taken and add up the totals.

Batsman #1 = 11 points
Batsman #2 = 10 points
Batsman #3 = 9 points

all the way down obviously to Batsman #11 = 1 point

So here we go

Wickets taken by Flintoff

Langer (11)
Gilchrist (5)
Hayden (10)
Gilchrist (5)
Katich (6)
Gillespie (2)
Kasprowicz (1)
Langer (11)
Ponting (9)
Gillespie (4)
Warne (3)
Katich (7)
Hayden (10)
Katich (7)
Gilchrist (6)
Warne (3)
Gilchrist (5)
Hayden (10)
Martyn (8)

123 "importance" points for flintoff

Wickets taken by Warne

Pietersen (5)
Hoggard (3)
Trescothick (11)
Bell (8)
Flintoff (6)
Harmison (2)
Strauss (10)
Giles (4)
Hoggard (3)
Harmison (2)
Strauss (10)
Bell (7)
Pietersen (6)
Flintoff (5)
Giles (3)
Harmison (2)
Trescothick (11)
Flintoff (5)
Giles (3)
Jones (1)
Strauss (10)
Giles (4)
Hoggard (3)
Harmison (2)
Trescothick (11)
Strauss (10)
Vaughan (9)
Jones (5)

161 "importance" points for Warne.

So warne wins 161 to 123. 38 points is a decent margin of victory, even if you dont give much weight to my system


Interestingly though, if you find a value for the "average importance of wicket"

Warne
161/28
5.75 = average importance

Flintoff
123 / 19
6.473 = average importance


Read into this what you will.
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 00:47   #28
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
"So you cannot POSSIBLY claim to have "dominated" the series when its swung your way on umpires decisions.

.
England have definatly had some extremely dodgy decisions go their way but then so have Australia. The difference being the Australian ones have come at times which has more than likely lost them the game so they have had a lot more focus. If Lee and Kasprowicz had managed to snatct the 2nd test then I have no doubt people would be going on about England being hard doneby with Bell being out twice in that test unfairly, Pieterson given out when he hadn't hit it and a few other similar decisions. The overall umpiring has been pretty abysmal.

As for Warne vs Flintoff, I don't really think there can be much doubt that Warne is the better bowler but I would say Flintoff is the better all rounder as Warnes runs seem to be quite lucky. He either slogs a quick 40 or gets out really cheaply and looks a bit stupid. Today for example he really had no reason to charge half way down the pitch to Giles, with Australia in so much trouble he should have batted a bit more sensibly really.

What your stats don't show though is the fact Warne has bowled a fair bit more overs due to Australia only using 4 bowlers and in some innings more or less ignorning one of them (Gillesspie only bowling 4 overs in an innings) and Warne just sits at one end bowling for half the day which gives him more chance of a wicket.

The dropped catches then, considering these are the best two teams in the world they seem to be dropping a ridiculous number of catches.
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 00:54   #29
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

My brain hurts from all the sums ive done already, and i cant be bothered working out either the "run economy" or the "overs per wicket economy", but i suspect Warne leads flintoff in both those stats too.

Also, the other point is that Warne is recognised only as a "spinner who can bat a bit" rather than an all rounder like flintoff. Warne's batting is purely a bonus - Flintoff is almost definitely a better batter than warne - but not by close to the margin that Warne is a better bowler than Flintoff
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 01:53   #30
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Re: [cricket] Eng V Australia test (ashes)

Yeah your probably right about the economy rate and Warne's batting.

England could really do with a spinner even half as talented as Warne because as much as Giles tries he isn't really a great spinner, he is just above average and thebest we have. A good spinner could probably have won us the third test on a 5th day pitch.
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