R57 Stats sets

[SantaCruz]

Oh while i think of it. My eff are all high right now. I Realize this. Basicly this is where i'm starting. I will go over everyship and make them based on the eff's now. Once this is done. I will then pick a race. Lower it's eff to exactly where i want it. I'll figure out what % i had to drop the eff's. Then drop every race by that %. This might be a 10-20% eff drop. I don't want high eff's across the board. If my eff's are to high, these will turn into defence only stats quickly.

[Influence]

Originally Posted by Machado

I said it's probably not preferable when you have so many (5-6) classes (fi/co/fr/de/cr/bs) - rock paper scissors only has 3.

I had a whole post but stats actually changed while I was writing it, so nvm lol. I'll wait

Sure you can, it's called rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock...

[BloodyButcher]

Atm to me xan looks too strong.
I cant realy see whats gonna stop xan FR.
Open stats are good and all that, but i dont see how going for fort stats gonna open up the round as you said want.

[Paisley]

Having a look at the updated stats... some big improvements.

I still think that tycoons should be made to Init 2 Emp and dealers should have a t2 for BS. Remove interceptors t2 de if you are going to stick for max 4 t2 per race to compensate.

The reason why I'm saying make the tycoon EMP init 2 is that the fr/de v bs interaction is a bit "too crowded" and have the option that etd can steal additional BS ships so it isn't "cath lite"

Edit - OR

Change the tycoon to Init 2 Emp
Remove the Lich's t2 cr and have dealer t2 BS

[Kaiba]

Ok so quick breakdown of where we are.

Santa is working on effs but targetting is at best 40% complete. Which means he will have to overhaul it all again and then again and again probably.

What i get from a quick look is this, to target all ships:

Cat Co - Spider, Beetle, Viper, Scarab - 4 Ships
Cat De - Viper, Widow, Scarab (forts could go Tula over Viper) - 3 ships
Cat Cr - Spider, Beetle, Tula, Roach, Scarab (forts could go Widow over Spid/Beet for a 4 ship build) - 5 Ships

Xan Fi - Phant, Banshee, Reaper, Shadow - 4 ships
Xan Fr - Phant, Banshee, Reaper, Shadow - 4 ships
Xan Cr - Banshee, Reaper, Shadow/Wraith, Ghost, Spectre - 5 ships

Zik Co - Smuggler, Corsair, Cutlass, Theif, Bucc - 5 ships
Zik Fr - Corsair, Clipper, Thief, Marauder - 4 ships
Zik Cr - Smugg, Cutlass, Rogue, Mara, Pirate - 5 ships

ETD Co -Cutter, Interceptor, Investor, Lich - 4 ships
ETD De - Interceptor, Investor, Ranger, Lich - 4 ships (Forts could go Tycoon instead for a 3 ship build)
ETD Bs - Cutter, Interceptor, Lich, Guardian, Tycoon - 5 ships

Terr Fi - Harpy, Phoenix, Valkryie, Gryphon, Dragon - 5 Ships
Terr FR - Phoenix, Valkryie, Cerebrus, Gryphon, Dragon - 5 ships
Terr BS Harpy, Valkryie, Syren, Kraken, Dragon - 5 ships

Now from this i conclude that the round is very much built around Cloaked Frigate/Destroyer class ships. Xan Fr and ETD De is very pimp, Cat DE and ETD can in forts spam 3 ships all round and be very very hard to roid, even more so with the cloak factor of ETD added and normal OPness of EMP in this game.

Why does every other race have atleast 1 4 ship build and the 3 strongest have 2 4 ship builds and the strongest have both have 3 ship builds yet Terran cannot cover all classes without 5 ships and NEEDS seige weapons to cover CR. No other race actually requires to build Seige Weapons to have effective fleets (imo the cr/bs classes are the weakest option in each race based on the stats (not gameplay/faking tactics)) yet Terran requires it to even target CR, bit overly harsh if you ask me.

Terran is getting the rough end of the stick because they can build cons quick. Frankly who gives a flying toss? Its rare that a Terran wins a round nowadays, its rare that Terran conwhores do well at all, Corp + Covop is just too powerful, especially with the SK mania going round too.

And to top it all off you took away the Wyvern and replace with the faggoty Kraken, if i was a Terran (and according to the race lore we all are) then i would say **** YOU SANTA **** YOU!

[Kaiba]

Also if there was ever a set of stats to play into the hands of the experienced Ratprime forters (dunno why its called that as Rats were App originally, surely the kids have just come home) then this is it. I know people think Spore were set up to dominate (lol sif) but you didnt need to create stats to benefit their rivals so much.

[Blue_Esper]

forting with these stats will be awful. dont kid yourself

[fortran]

Change maybe Kraken, Tara and Tycoon targets from T1: Fr T2: De to T1: De T2: Fr? Atm they are very in disadvantage against the possible ships defending them.

[BloodyButcher]

Originally Posted by Blue_Esper

forting with these stats will be awful. dont kid yourself

Did i overlook anything?
Did he just update the stats?

[SantaCruz]

Kai. I've read your post. I see what your saying for the most part.
So to answer generally. Targeting order restricts some races to have to build more ships. Cause i'm avoiding Fi hitting FI to keep same init's out of the stats.
For example, If Investor init 4 T1 Fi T2 Co. Just so ETD doesn't need to to build a 5th ship...
I think it's a more far way to look at it this way. ETD is one of the best setup races to this point. I've kept DE cloaked to limit what they can kill on their DE fakes. However they can still go BS and fake DE and CO attacks. There is no reason why they wouldn't have 5 ships by choice.

For the most part keeping each race with 4 ships was fuking hard. If you notice it's mostly CR/BS that requires 5 ships for a build. But, either way 5 ships isn't much.

Cath DE going 3 ship build ? i'm laughing at that dude. If an alliance wants to have no eta 4 anti fi/co. Only emp. let them... they will just lose all their roids. Cath is a 4 ship build for co/de. 5 for cr. like every other race.

I will see what i can do right now with ter.

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by SantaCruz

I think it's a more far way to look at it this way. ETD is one of the best setup races to this point. I've kept DE cloaked to limit what they can kill on their DE fakes. However they can still go BS and fake DE and CO attacks. There is no reason why they wouldn't have 5 ships by choice.

Have you given any consideration to my post Santacruz?
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...&postcount=104

[SantaCruz]

Yes I was talking it over today with patrikc. I've reworked the stats again towards the good i believe.

Basicly with ETD
Dev > Turned into DE Emp > T1 Cr T2 Fr
Lich > T2 none
Guard > T1 Cr T2 De
Tycoon > T2 none

Basicly it's a step towards what you were wanting. It is part of a bigger picture, which is why i didn't do exactly your suggestion. However i think you might be happy with this also.

Other changes
Cer > t2 De
Peg > t2 Fr
Loctus > Change to DE Norm > T1 Bs
Scarab > t1 cr t2 de
Spirit > Changed to FR > t1 co t2 de
Bucc > changed to Frigate t1 BS t2 Fr
Dev > Changed to De > t1 cr t2 fr
Lich > t1 Bs

Basicly fr/de hit each other now, Tho i kept it limited to t2's. This should make FR/DE not so op on attack. I'm not 100% sure on these changes. As many have pointed out, some things have to be done. I just want to keep control of how i make these changed. So i don't lose track of where my head is lol

[SantaCruz]

The problem now. With putting more ships with FR/DE. I'm going to have to Lower Fi inits. Fi loses hands down to FR now.

[SantaCruz]

There. I've looked over everything you complaind about kai.
Race Setups
Ter Fi (4)
Harpy,Phoenix,Valkie,Gryphon
Ter Fr (4)
Harpy,Cerb,Gryphon,Pegs
Ter Bs (5)
Harpy,Valk,Gryp,kraken,Dragon

Cath co (4)
Spider,Beet,Viper,Scarab
Cath De (4)
Viper,Loctus,BW,Scarab
Cath Cr (5)
Spider,Beetle,Scarab,Tara,Roach

Xan Fi (4)
Phant,Banshe,reaper,Shadow
Xan Fr (4)
Rev,Spirit,reaper,shadow
Xan Cr (5)
Banshee,Reaper, wraith, ghost,spec

Zik co (4)
Corsair,Cutlass,Clipper,Bucc
Zik FR (4)
Corsair,Clipper,Thief,Bucc
Zik Cr (5)
Cutlass,Clipper,Rogue,mara,pirate

Etd Co (4)
Cutter,Inter, Investor,Dealer
ETD DE (4)
Dev,Rang,lich, inter/dealer,
ETD BS (5)
Cutter,Inter,Lich,Guard,Tycoon

[SantaCruz]

Eff are ruffed in for Ter/Cath/Xan.

Not E/R yet. Tomorrow I will get to Zik/ETD and E/R

I think these stats have come along way today. With Eff in place for ter.xan maybe people will change their minds about them abit.

[Kaiba]

All you have done today is make fr fitting more viable and nerfed De.

You have made it so now everyone can pile 70% value in Fr or De depending on their race choice and then the other 30% into a Co ship which covers their hole.

For all crap about ints and effs is that if someone has 70% value in 1 class that targets 5 out of 6 then trying to land them with anything except the 1 they don't target is a fail.

I don't see any reason why people wouldn't go Xan Fr now. Fi is completely unplayable, Co is ok but Emp is never gonna cut it against fr/de forts. Cr/bs is completely pointless in the stats now so I'm expecting loads of Co/Fr/De and im expecting them all to be on a 4 ship build initing roids and cross deffing gal raids with cloaked ships.

This round is gonna be so bad hahahaha.....


I have no idea why you completely changed Terran and made every race look like a mirror each other. I am excited to check out if Ter armour is as ridiculosly OP as it looks.

Welcome to Rd 57 of Planetarion, Int and Sprint...

[Kaiba]

Also you havent changed the main issue with Terrain. NO WYVERN!!!!

[Paisley]

I'm liking the changes made ... however im not a fan of Frig class anti frig Its almost as bad having xan fi class anti fi like in r34. Don't want folk to have too much value in frig class.

Edit - When you get round to balance up EMP resistances and guns chances are you're going to have to swap guardian targetting around.
I.E. t1 DE t2 CR

[Kaiba]

Ahh let them get on with it Paisley, Santa has made so many changes he is making Tia look like a viable stat maker again.

Fr forts all round, let the snoozefest commence

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Ahh let them get on with it Paisley, Santa has made so many changes he is making Tia look like a viable stat maker again.

Fr forts all round, let the snoozefest commence

I don't want to see TIA touch the stats for another 3 rounds minium.

I would prefer keeping to the theme of ship names the same like in previous rounds ie swap the tula and roach about in ship name and call the kracken wyvern.

As for frig there is a vunerablity in the lotus, investor and Valkyrie but maybe Santacruz wants frig class anti frig as a deterent to put off alliances spaming frig.

Originally Posted by Machado

Good stats allow players to choose different paths. Bad stats force players into a bottleneck.

I would prefer bs/cr to be beefed up a bit so there is Genuine choice between choosing bs/cr v frig/de and not having to say go frig just to "keep up with the jones" from other alliances.

With regards to fi v co as harpy and interceptors fire on the same init might be an idea to increase their armour and reduce damage. (but this for the tweaking stage we are still at the forming stage of the stats)

[Machado]

What's going on with DE? Only Cat and Eitd have any DE at all right now. There is 1 FR which targets DE, and 1 DE which targets FR t1,the second being t2 emp. Still 4 co targeting DE as t1, seems a bit overkill.

I'm probably looking mid-update or something? To be honest, if I was Cat or Etd right now I'd go CO instead of DE anyway. Fighter-based anti-co still suffers from having 2 (out of 5) stealships and somewhat ineffective (but a bit better now I guess) Spider, leaving Banshee and Harpy as only reasonably viable ally-based anti-co def. But Eitd eff isn't done yet yeah?

[Plaguuu]

Making alot of changes isnt a bad thing, its a good thing as the stats needed alot of changes, and afaik he fixed alot of the problems (havent check well enough to see what new ones came up tho :P)

I for one like the new names keeps things abit fresh

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Plaguuu

Making alot of changes isnt a bad thing, its a good thing as the stats needed alot of changes, and afaik he fixed alot of the problems (havent check well enough to see what new ones came up tho :P)

I for one like the new names keeps things abit fresh

Its a shame that there isnt an offline stats program or something that could be used to edit the stats without us watching the pain staking process where people comment and the statmaker buckles and changes. It would be nicer if Santa could have uploaded a set that was 90% complete rather than one taht was 30% done.

In regards to names, keeping it fresh is all good but its a pain when you go searching for ships. You can call it a Kraken all you want but anyone who builds it will know its a Wyvern in disguise! Anyone who has played the game with the slightest amount of interest for the last 20 rounds knows that the Wyvern is a Terran seige class ship which targets FR or DE or both. It means players can drop in and out of the game without having to relook at the stats when asking for ships. For example if someone is Terran in my gal and i have fr/de incs, i canm ask if they have Wyvs - i dont even have to look at what Wyv targets cos it has always targetted the same thing. Now i ask for them and people be like what is a Wyvern? oh you mean the Kraken, no, Ter BS is crap. Changing names is fluff tbh, get the stats right first.

[M0RPH3US]

sorry, but this set gets worse and worse with every couple changes made

how is anyone going to land attacks with these fr/de fortress options ???

[fortran]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

sorry, but this set gets worse and worse with every couple changes made

how is anyone going to land attacks with these fr/de fortress options ???

In my pov Fr/De thou covering more classes is becoming less op.

[Influence]

uggh, i really don't like that latest set of changes... giving Fr the ability to hit De and vice versa just makes this set even more of a Fr/De fort set than it already was. Before Fi/Co seemed at least a viable tactic (Cr/Bs never really did imho) but it will be absolutely impossible to land on even half decent Fr/De forts that can have 80% of their value in Fr/De. Like Kaiba said, hitting them with anything other than what is their hole is completely pointless unless you hit people barely above your bash limit, and the only hole that they have is Fr/De again.

I think when you started this set you had a pretty good vision, but it seems to have gotten very clouded very quickly by the comments that have been made on here. Time to have a cold refreshing shower to get back on track with your vision again if you ask me.

[Plaguuu]

I have to agree with fr/de shouldnt be able to hit frde.

[Papadoc]

When you add another Fr/De to the pod class rather than keeping the T1 of the added ship as a T2; ( this seems to be a trend) It's really going to end up the same amount of value into FR/DE per planet for it to be viable.

Doing this really hurts CR/BS and CO, as in recent rounds these pod classes are heavily dependant on EMP to land.

I understand the goal was to make planet split their value up among the FR not making them too strong easily and allowing them to be strong versus one class by having a low initiative against Fi or CO and high against the other.

It's a slippery slope and the only solution that ive come up with is to remove some of the targetting.

For instance Fighters targetting FR only and CO targeting DE and vice versa. This would allow you to keep FR targetting DE etc

[M0RPH3US]

either you remove all fr/de targets for fr/de
or you make fr/de each only able to hit at max 4 out of 6 classes, better 3
2nd allows for having SOME fr/de able to hit fr/de

as it is, you have to pick terran, xan, zik fr or cath, etd de to do good
resulting in a defensive and initiating festival

perfect for alliances that love to have many naps i guess

[SantaCruz]

Lol i will take fr/de away. It was you guys that asked for it. Now i'm getting in shit for it. I'm trying to work with you guys.

As for the changes kai please shut the Mother Friday up. You are acting like a total jackass. There is no right amount to change stats until they are called finished.

P.S back before you were born. Kraken was the name of Ter Bs. Kraken and Titan. Drangon + Wyvern (water dragon) Is stupid to me. I should also change spider + water spider.... This would make sense also to keep you happy? Grow up. I didn't just pull the name out of my ass. I fixed Ship names back to proper theme.

also i know tara/roach names need to be switched. I've just been doing more important things.

[SantaCruz]

As for Fr be more op. People might want to actually run some calcs. FR has 2 ships that fire before def Vs Fi/Co. After that they are sitting ducks until high eta.

Fi and Co look alot better of a option to me then FR.

[Machado]

Wait, why is it bad fr or de hits de or fr?

I hate it when you only have fi or co to defend vs fr/de AND fi/co, being able to defend with your attack class gives you much more opportunities for faking etc, which imo is a fun part of the game. If you can't, and ally X goes fr/de or cr/bs, they need fi/co to defend in ally vs fi, co, fr and de.

That said I agree that fr/de shouldn't target all classes. I like papadoc's suggestion. Maybe it would be an idea to have FR hit co/de/cr (and other way around), and DE hit fi/fr/bs or something? For example. Just throwing it out there :P

[Joseph]

Imho, the point of 3 class pods its to give more options to alliance.

I can see everybody wondering about useless cr.bs, fi...

Just make all classes be playable.. As a good option...

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by SantaCruz

As for Fr be more op. People might want to actually run some calcs. FR has 2 ships that fire before def Vs Fi/Co. After that they are sitting ducks until high eta.

Fi and Co look alot better of a option to me then FR.

Fi cannot land Xan Fr period so it's crap.

As I said you can go on about ints, arm,guns, dmg all you want but the word that is most important to fr/de fort play is the one your forgetting.... Flak. If your bp all can put 80% value into the same class of CLOAKED ship then you are a nightmare to land and it becomes mining page wars.

[Shhhhhhh]

Originally Posted by SantaCruz

As for Fr be more op. People might want to actually run some calcs. FR has 2 ships that fire before def Vs Fi/Co. After that they are sitting ducks until high eta.

Fi and Co look alot better of a option to me then FR.

I think you're confusing different things.

On attacks it's about how much defensive value is needed to stop the attack and if the defenders can be sent from ally def or if they have to be from ingal.
With this there's no clear favourite between Fi/Co and FR, it simply depends on what you value more. Against ally defense ships ( not PLed) I'd say Xan fi or Fi in general are very nice, yet any ingal (Or PLed) Reapers are enough to cover it, no matter how big the xan fi teamup is.
The FR attacks have more ally ships that can cover it , but theres also not that many ships that cover it so easily. Overal for attacks this all seems fine. Even with your changes of FR/DE hitting FR/DE.

However on defense and self defense, FR and a FR based gal (even alliance) is clearly preferable to anything else atm. With Reapers making you Xan fi immune, you only have to worry about CO getting through without ally def making the eta. Yet even against Co the FR isnt that bad, sure the , nm, you just totally changed stats again...

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Fi cannot land Xan Fr period so it's crap.

now your loosing it...

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

now your loosing it...

To land a xan fr with fi you have to take a loss of value doing so. If you have to take a value loss to land every attack on that race then you ain't gonna win pa, or even compete.

[M0RPH3US]

and so because there is one race/setup you cant land fi on, fi is crap ???

you can land on zik, etd, ter and if big enough cat...

imo xan fi is very strong, if not too strong

[SDN]

People think landing attacks are fun, then they have to tolerate being roided aswell. Roids swapping owners, xp lands and medium sized allies with a special tactic being able to hurt a big one solo is fun.

ST > ALL i have no idea why we have these utter crap MT rounds.. you had to warr the mining page to be able to get top20 last round.. and it will be the same this round..

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

and so because there is one race/setup you cant land fi on, fi is crap ???

you can land on zik, etd, ter and if big enough cat...

imo xan fi is very strong, if not too strong

So Xan fi is strong and Xan fr is strong so we should expect a 50% take up yeah?

So half the universe can't hit each other?

People will be put off Xan fi because of how it is crippled by Xan fr and that 1 ingal/pl def kills your attack.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by SDN

People think landing attacks are fun, then they have to tolerate being roided aswell. Roids swapping owners, xp lands and medium sized allies with a special tactic being able to hurt a big one solo is fun.

ST > ALL i have no idea why we have these utter crap MT rounds.. you had to warr the mining page to be able to get top20 last round.. and it will be the same this round..

Yes it was all the stats fault, nothing to to with NAPFEST 2014 which Spore hosted.

[SantaCruz]

So outside the trolling from kai. I will now ignore him completely.

I went over all race setups. I think you all should take the time to do it also. Write them all out. Bs/Cr is not utter crap. Outside the fact you have to build 5 ships. It can land and roid FR and DE.

It's time everyone realizes something. Your proof reading my stats. This means your finding mistakes in them. So instead of wasting time arguing over the things you are. Put it into helping me!!!

Half the things you are bring up in here aren't even true. You haven't spent the proper amount of time. I'm the only one here that knows every firing order without looking. The only one that can tell you every T1 and t2 without looking.
Don't tell me cr/bs is utter crap when it. Or that FR which fires 90% of the time last. Is to op. That's commented based on quick looks.
There is 45 ships firing. 15 pods. I bet you all. i'm the only one with a map of the firing order in front of me.

I need to focus on where these stats need to go. Not keeping people like kai assumed.

Either your in this to help me. Or your not part of this system. Please. I'm not trying to be rude. I just not sitting here baby sitting a forums post, while adults try and troll each other. Work with me to do this. Or please LEAVE us in peace. So we can get these stats working for a great fun round. After all that's the point of this. Not to build your own personal race to pick.

[SantaCruz]

Changes I made today in reflection from Last nights changes. These will now balance out our firing order. As the changed effected some of it.
Nix init 6 > 5
Loctus > Switched to Fr > init 6
Bansh init 4 > 3
Inter init 5 > 4
Peg init 8 > 7
Valk init 5 > 6
Ranger init 7 > 6
Ghost init 5 > 4
Guard switch > T1 FR t2 De (Paisley ^^)
Tycoon switch > T1 CR

There should now be NO same init firing. No same class firing. No empty init. It's all in order and firing correctly (for now lol)

[SantaCruz]

Just a break down I wanted you all to see. Maybe you will understand more to why I don't believe FR is op.
FR Att Fleets
Cer Co De 8
Gry Bs CR 7
Peg Fr 7
Spirit Co 7
Reaper Fi 3
Shadow Cr Bs 6
Clipper Co 5
Thief Fi 17
Bucc Bs Cr 17

Fi Def vs Fr
Loc 6
Phant 4
Smugg 18
Nix t2 6

Co Def vs Fr
Valk 6
Inves 4
Viper 2
Cors T2 18

Cr Def vs FR
Tara 1
Ghost 4

Bs def vs FR
Kraken 5
Guard 2

This is shows this firing order
FR to Fi
Reaper (att)
Phant (def)
Locut (def)
Nix (def) T2
Pegs (att)
Thief (att)
Smug(def)

Fr Vs Co
Viper(def)
Investor (def)
Clipper (att)
Valk (def)
Spirit (att)
Cerb(att)
Cors (def) T2

Fr Vs Cr
Tara (def)
Ghost (def)
Shadow (att)
Gryp(att) T2
Bucc(att) T2
Mara (def) T2

Fr vs BS
Guard (def)
Kraken (def) T2
Shadow(att) T2
Gryp (att)
Bucc (att)

If you read that and can still agrue that FR is op then go FR. It's a good balance right now. It can attack races and races can stop it. It can be hit and it will get roided.

[Paisley]

Had a look at the changes ... the foundation is ok just need to sort the armour and damages etc.

Harpy and Phoenix need to have at least 600 A/C
Terran frig need their A/C around 500 ~
Gryphon needs their D/C around 300
Ter Bs need their A/C around 600 ~
Kracken need D/C above 400

Beetle Needs emp eff of 150% +
Viper needs 170% eff v fr around 130-140% eff v de ~
Cath DE have armour around 400 A/C
Tarantula needs to be 180% v fr and 130-140% v de
Roach about 140-150% eff v bs
Cath cr armour around 450-500 A/C

Xan ships A/C and D/C look provisionally ok

Zik co A/C is ok maybe a small tweak needed.

Zik fr is ok ish but bucc imo is too overpowered and
Zik cr imo is the most useless fleet of the stats.

Etd co looks ok.
Devastator needs armour down to 400-420 A/C and emp eff around 140%
Ranger down to about 400-420 A/C and D/C
Lich down to 380 D/C and about 380-410 A/C
Guardian needs to be about 180% eff v frig and about 140% eff v de
and about 480-500 A/C
Tycoon armour about 550 in A/C and 380 -420 D/C

Edit - I do think zik cr needs to be rehauled and fire before zik fr

[SantaCruz]

I'll read that when i come back later tonight to work on these more. Atm i'm finished with ruff draft of e/r also.
thanks

[Shhhhhhh]

I think you forgot to remove the T2 on Cerberus, it's free killing DE atm.

[SantaCruz]

Originally Posted by Paisley

Had a look at the changes ... the foundation is ok just need to sort the armour and damages etc.

Harpy and Phoenix need to have at least 600 A/C
Terran frig need their A/C around 500 ~
Gryphon needs their D/C around 300
Ter Bs need their A/C around 600 ~
Kracken need D/C above 400

Beetle Needs emp eff of 150% +
Viper needs 170% eff v fr around 130-140% eff v de ~
Cath DE have armour around 400 A/C
Tarantula needs to be 180% v fr and 130-140% v de
Roach about 140-150% eff v bs
Cath cr armour around 450-500 A/C

Xan ships A/C and D/C look provisionally ok

Zik co A/C is ok maybe a small tweak needed.

Zik fr is ok ish but bucc imo is too overpowered and
Zik cr imo is the most useless fleet of the stats.

Etd co looks ok.
Devastator needs armour down to 400-420 A/C and emp eff around 140%
Ranger down to about 400-420 A/C and D/C
Lich down to 380 D/C and about 380-410 A/C
Guardian needs to be about 180% eff v frig and about 140% eff v de
and about 480-500 A/C
Tycoon armour about 550 in A/C and 380 -420 D/C

Edit - I do think zik cr needs to be rehauled and fire before zik fr

I've read over your post. I will take all into thought when I begin to balance. I'm going to avoid such high Eff for emp tho. Emp is pretty much where it should be in my mind. If something has to change. It's the world around it.

My A/C D/C is a base to start. They are all set with a guild. Cloack/Norm/Emp/Steal all have the same A/C D/C atm depending on inits. These will change as I balance the stats.

Tomorrow i'm going to map out every attack class. Find out what needs to be changed to make it a better option. Like your Zik Cr comment. This needs to be done before I make any more changes. I need to get a full view of each race/strat's attack power and defence power as it is now. Then changes can be made.

[Tiamat101]

I know that you have a lot on your mind to work out, however after your last re-work I am very excited for most of these changes, however one thing that you might have overlooked is investor vs clipper. Also you have clipper and nix firing at the same time. My suggestion is to switch init on investor and Clipper. Currently co has the adv over Fr, and given that its faster eta and fires 1st it might not be that playable with the way it is.

Investor will still fire at xan/ter fr before they fire back, and would solve the nix/clipper firing at the same time.

[Tiamat101]

My bad I was reading valk at init 5. So disregard the talk about nix/clipper. But I still think that you should switch inits from clipper and investor.