User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 18 Dec 2006, 01:52   #201
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
what exactly is the point of screwing current alliances in favor of starting cluster alliances?
The powers that be in their wisdom (from what I can gauge) want to make a war game. To do this, they have made their new universe utterly unforgiving by making value all important for those who want to play for their alliance thus giving them a large proportion score they can lose and combining that with clusters where if you are marooned, that's it.

In fairness, cluster wars can bring out the best and worst in players in very different senses.

Some groups have gone marauding through their cluster and absolutely torn it apart, which is a magnificent display of ability but means that if you are on the end of it, your round is pretty much over.

Some clusters have formed factions out of desperation, and ended up successfully dismantling the enemy over the course of the round (s7n in round 4 being such an example). Occasionally you get marginal clusters where the opposing factions are evenly balanced and fighting gets increasingly fierce.

Sometimes you see big players be honourable and prefer a strong cluster all round so there is no need to worry about anything in cluster, which can help the big guys defensively (no longer under pressure, can get fast defence) and the little guys can actually play a round (c32r and the c35 NAP from round 3 are such examples). Infact when this has been done, it's usually resulted in a disproportionately high number of top galaxies, but this is mainly because these clusters are relative strongholds and the minority enemy just simply isn't worth the fuss.

Sometimes you see a galaxy under siege that stands up for itself. Defending that galaxy is barbaric for it's inhabitants and the alliances defending it. The stamina and attitude required to keep going verges on the insane. It's akin to the bit in the film Bridge on the River Kwai (essential Christmas viewing, btw) where the officers stand in the sun and refuse to do work because it's against the Geneva Convention. By the end of the round, these galaxies will be something akin to shells, but they will have respect from large swathes of the universe.

Cluster play is time consuming but has also provided some of the most interesting, varied and exciting combat and politics going. When we had proper cluster alliances, planetarion was absorbing, because you were dealt your lot, you had to work a way out of it and that was it. With exiling, it will be a bit different I think.

The excitement and addition of depth to the game for me is beyond doubt. The first question is who will do what with it, especially with things like buddypacks and exiling. The second question is whether you've got the players to commit the time to it. I can see why newer players are worried, they are up against players who are more experienced and more aggressive and they could be on the end of something pretty horrific.

I think someone decided they wanted to make PA a war game and make it harder. I'm not sure they thought out the consequences for a lot of players, but there is a clear 'vision' to it all, I guess. As I've said, I like clusters, I don't like the focus on value, as Rob said the pressure on the PA foot soldier is going to be massive and PA will be very hard work for them.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Dec 2006, 13:35   #202
Thrackan
NewDawn peon
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dutchieland
Posts: 18
Thrackan is a glorious beacon of lightThrackan is a glorious beacon of lightThrackan is a glorious beacon of lightThrackan is a glorious beacon of lightThrackan is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 20 Changes

To be perfectly honest, just watching the uproar should be enough to know you are going to lose (experienced) players by going through with the changes. Not in any way have I read or seen any sort of campaign that is actually adressing PA's declining membership.
It is not that hard to keep people happy and playing. You COULD of course start by polling issues on the Portal so you know what is actually the wish of the players, a technique which has proven itself to be accurately displaying a community's mindset and keeping people satisfied with changes.

Of course, actually PROMOTING Planetarion might be a good idea. There is a reason you are not high up in any online directory at the moment. Good ol' days PA was #1. Players were high up about it and promoted it themselves. Now, players who are enthusiastic have already gotten the virus to all they can spread it to. You need different ways of promotion.

Long term growth is a good thing. You mention it as one of your main planning points, which should make me confident something good is coming our way. But as soon as I see you mention "short term drop" that fades away. You have a select playerbase and, as mentioned above, no serious promotion going already. If you want to be able to take the short term drop, you should have already started recruiting new members like crazy.

Well, as you can probably read through my formulation of ideas, I am 100% unhappy with the course PA team is going. For me, personally, playing round 19 was absolute fun and got me hooked again after 9 rounds of absence. Round 20, however, will be a quick cold turkey if all goes on like this.

Of course, I do not have any right to criticise or try and change The Planetarion Teams' decisions. I just need to get it off my chest and maybe even make a last desperate attempt to make PA fun for me at least. I sincerely hope the Team takes the case very seriously and tries to keep the existing (and old) playerbase happy and playing.

My sincerest apologies for a long rant,

Thrackan
Thrackan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Dec 2006, 17:30   #203
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Round 20 Changes

by the way i don't think the alliance ranking by value is a bad move necessarily, just that there are better options to 'get a war game' as well as that i dislike the forced split of xp players from alliances instead of allowing alliances themselves to choose
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 02:24   #204
Veedeejem!
Hibernating
 
Veedeejem!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Team Kesha
Posts: 1,621
Veedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond reputeVeedeejem! has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Round 20 Changes

I don't really like the changes to the ally ranking and the cluster eta's...
I've read the whole 5 pages of this thread and one of the only things i read that i actually liked was jerome's suggestion for an ingame "war" mode, nobody other than me has actually replied to that though.

My predictions for next round if these changes are used:

1) A vry ****ing boring round: the bigger and more active allies will all be scared of eachother and the idea of losing by actually going to war with another big active ally, so they'll just limit themselves to hitting down the foodchain.
Or there will be 1 superpower that just chews up the entire universe.

2) A whole lot of exiling till you end up in a cluster dominated by your alliance, if you don't you're pretty much ****ed when an in-cluster fleetcatch comes for you.

3) Medium/small alliances getting their asses kicked horribly, unable to organise themselves as properly as a superpower does they will be doomed very early in the game, with nothing left to play for.

4) Stagnation: The winner of the round will be decided in the first 3-4 weeks, the remaining time is useless to the overall ranks

5) T100 player ranking not reflecting the overall skill of alliances, in previous rounds alliances that were high up on the rankings had alot of t100 planets, the way it should be imo, with this new system XP whores will make a huge part of the t100, especially unallied or small allies have a chance to get alot of people in t100 if they go for xp and don't care about overall alliance performance in ranks.

6) Alot of bashing, all the alliance players have no more reason to go after xp, so they can just hit far down the foodchain and pick up easy roids, the small/medium players get ****ed again...

I could probably think of alot more but kinda tired atm,
I'll just finish with the following then:
IF this is used, it will turn the game into an eletist game, the occasional player (medium/small) will have no reason to play as they'll just get raped over and over again by the big boys.
Because of this I can see PA losing 50-75% or more from the playerbase, the 50-75% that is usually forgotten on these boards: the casual player, the player that just plays PA for some fun, the new players, ...

I agree that changes have to be made to the game, but this is not the way, atleast, it's not the way if you want PA to grow, if you want PA to be a small comunity of elite players then this is the way...

PS: sorry for this post being a bit long and maybe a boring read, it's the longest post i've ever made on these boards i think, but it should illustrate how much i oppose to the way r20 looks judging from the specifications given.
__________________
[InSomnia]
Official designated driver

[ToF] - [eXilition] - [Rock] - [Denial] - [DLR] - [eVolution] - [ODDR] - [HR] - [Ultores] - [Apprime] - [Ironborn]
Veedeejem! is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 09:45   #205
GReaper
The BOFH
 
GReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
GReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
<Kal> my aims are long term growth - i recognise that this could mean a short term drop
<Kal> of course we realise what this will do to some alliances. alliances have come to dominate the game too much. while alliances do have a signifcant place in PA, that place is perhaps not what it has been in recent rounds.
Could you please explain why the changes will promote long term growth?

All I can see is a lot of people pissed off in the short term with nothing to promote long term gains! The player base is an important part of the game, and you're planning to piss quite a large majority of them off. If the players aren't happy then they won't recommend the game to anyone else.
GReaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 11:06   #206
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Could you please explain why the changes will promote long term growth?

All I can see is a lot of people pissed off in the short term with nothing to promote long term gains! The player base is an important part of the game, and you're planning to piss quite a large majority of them off. If the players aren't happy then they won't recommend the game to anyone else.
The changes presented will create a more interesting and varied game. This directly leads to the creation of a game that in general more people will wish to play. That does not mean that the current players will wish to play it.

While I fully agree that if the players arn't happy they won't recommend people to play the game - I would suggest that the players arn't doing that at the moment and with the decline shown last year it would actually be pretty hard to make things worse.

It is also worth pointing out that we have not announced all of the changes yet. For example we are considering tweaking the eta system so that the new incluster attack bonuses arn't as horrible from a sleep point of view as they are as things stand. e.g. we could increase all etas by 1, we could remove the last eta research - there are lots of different options.

I think its also worth telling you all about some casual research I'm doing at the moment. Basically I've been going around talking to people who play competing games and aksing them why they don't play PA. There was a recurring theme that somewhat shocked me. I was expecting them to talk about the cost, but in fact none of them really cared about that. What they did say however was that they didn't play PA becuase of its community. One of the claims was that the PA community doesn't care - it doesn't look after you if you are bashed, it doesn't help you meet new friend, etc. This shocked me as i always thought the community was one of our strengths. Perhaps some food for thought.

On the subject of the announced changes, there was one other option we considered - removing alliance rankings entirly. This would remove the emphasis on alliances playing to win and switch it to alliances playing for their members. I think we would still need some sort of list of alliances on the rankigns pages so people knew who was out there - perhaps just a list ranked by number of planets (but with the number not actually shown)
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 11:16   #207
Ziw
cute and fluffy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Ziw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 20 Changes

Was the changes for the round even considered in the way that they would impact eachother?
Couse it kinda don't seem that way to me. As it looks for my part, we'l have a smaller members base, shittery'r gal's, stuff will be harder to defend, there will be more needed online time. Your gal will have to be good, if your cluster ally ain't supreeme.
I like the changes, mostly, expect for the negative impact they have on each other this way. This can only lead to planetarion getting even more "eliite" and a already to demanding game will take more of your time and efford.
The changes will also lead to alliances been rendered useless in someways, will be harder to controll, and if your unlucky with your gal(s?), the round will be so utterly shit that the player will never actually botter to play again.
So, welcome to the round of fluidgame play where none knows what they'r actually supose to do, and if they schould be so lucky to know it, they'r actually powerless to do it.
Changeing this game into a hybrid of a even more elitism game, a more demanding game, a more fluid game, and into something that will press the players out? Oh well.
__________________
[23:19:48] <wish> Thats gay. I like it
Ziw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 11:25   #208
Ziw
cute and fluffy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Ziw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
The changes presented will create a more interesting and varied game. This directly leads to the creation of a game that in general more people will wish to play. That does not mean that the current players will wish to play it.
No, with these changes we'l get a confuseing game, not enough changes, or to many was made.
From my point of view, we eneded somewhere between today with alliances(acceptable), and private gals(fun), some where in confuseing(horrible).
Anyhow, feel free to object, but I faer these changes that's made as of now only will make planetarion a game where no1 really knows what to do becouse the game is to fluid and there's no clear line anymore.
No alliance to the win becouse of the cluster stuff, no gal to win becouse of the small BP's, no person wo win becouse a xp whore just would be there to play solo.
I think this round will be a awfull one, with problly the biggest playerloose ever.
This is trying to make every1 happy with no thoughts on how it affect eachother.
__________________
[23:19:48] <wish> Thats gay. I like it
Ziw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 11:51   #209
Walldo
Stealth & Shadows
 
Walldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wall|y-doh
Posts: 102
Walldo is on a distinguished road
Re: Round 20 Changes

I am not serious poster on thezse boards, but this is something I realy wanna say:
Why paying for a game when I can not play with my friends.

I am playing a long time, and the reason I play is cause of my friends. The 5 bp where allready abit low, cause I had to say no to friends who would wanna play, some not even playing cause they are not in the bp. Now with the smaller bp, it will be even worser.

Cluster thing is a ok one, I like it, it will give some new things to pa. But it should be Ally -2 deffing. Cluster -1 and ingal cluster attacking -1. Allthough in the past same thing was up and I got bashed quit often with no change on ally def.

Exiling will be very much. I would put as Ally hc up. No Bp, all exile to cluster 6. So you just have 1 big alliance Cluster Galaxy in a way of it.

With the rankings, or do value, or do XP, not a mix. But if you do value, get rid of xp totally, no use then.

Again I would setup as HC 2 allies ingame. 1 for xp whores to dominate the top 100 rankings, and 1 for ally rankings. All in 1 cluster means you can defence eachother. So do the math!
__________________
"The Mighty Walldo Experience"


Playing since RND1 and counting

Proud to have been

Newdawn

Wolfpack - WPO - OoO - Kralizec Stealth & Shadows - []LCH[] - [1up] - VisioN - TFD
Ultores - Conspiracy Theory - Concordium - WaC - Blue Tuba - Fury - Thieves & Pirates - OUZO -Vengeance - Elysium - Mistu - LOST - 4S - GoCi - FAnG - Novus Ordo Seclorum - Xanadu - BULL - VGN -xVx
Walldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 11:57   #210
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I think its also worth telling you all about some casual research I'm doing at the moment. Basically I've been going around talking to people who play competing games and aksing them why they don't play PA. There was a recurring theme that somewhat shocked me. I was expecting them to talk about the cost, but in fact none of them really cared about that. What they did say however was that they didn't play PA becuase of its community. One of the claims was that the PA community doesn't care - it doesn't look after you if you are bashed, it doesn't help you meet new friend, etc. This shocked me as i always thought the community was one of our strengths. Perhaps some food for thought.
This is a very interesting observation. I made a related point came up in Jester's case for legalizing farming:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
In round 3, I remember many galaxies where the biggest planet would farm the smaller planets (in-galaxy attacking was allowed then). This gave the big planet a tremendous incentive to encourage his or her galaxy to do well, to defend them, and to teach them how to play the game. A similar incentive effect worked for clusters too.
Of course, bringing back farming is not necessarily the solution here. But there does need to be some way in which the fate of weaker players can be tied to the fate of stronger players. I think it's mostly a problem of communication and incentives.

Firstly, communication is incredibly valuable. A player who does not communicate with others will simply be exiled or ignored. Worst of all, they may simply not understand why this is the case (because they never talk to anyone). So PA really needs to find a way of encouraging newbies to take the first step in talking to their galaxies. The manual, quick start guide and so on need to make this point absolutely clear to new players: you must talk to your galaxy or you will get no enjoyment from the game.

Secondly, revamp the galaxy scoring system. I don't (yet!) have any suggestions on this, but the idea of different scoring systems for planets, alliances and galaxies opens up some interesting possibilities. Perhaps some real penalties for galaxies which consist mostly of planets which exiled in with pre-existing high scores? (e.g. something similar to how alliance scores now work). Extra XP for defending in-gal? Perhaps extra salvage on in-galaxy defences?

There needs to be a way in which newbies can contribute something useful to a galaxy. In the old days, that might simply have been initiating some eonium roids to be farmed by the galaxy's biggest planets. Now we might need something a bit more subtle and interesting. However, the eonium point is an interesting one: could we find a way in which small/new planets can be really good at something that big planets are really bad at? (I will personally beat the hell out of anyone who suggests 'scanning' here). Perhaps some resource that small planets can make lots of which large planets can't, which they can then trade for great mutual benefit? (thus creating an incentive for the big planet player to encourage the little guy to be more active).

Also, I think we need a proper 21st-century communication system. In-game avatars, photographs, links to MSN/Yahoo/etc. status, the whole lot (supported by the passport!). No wonder newbies get exiled: when I see a new planet in my galaxy called 'Sir Flibble of Moob' who never appears on IRC, I am going to want to exile him. But if I can see an avatar, some forum posts, perhaps get his MSN details and view a brief personal bio, I will feel much more of a 'connection' to that person and will be more likely to try to help them. The current system makes players so anonymous that exiling (quite a harsh thing to do) is easy; it's impossible to feel bad for 'Sir Flibble', but I might feel bad about exiling Joe the 19-year-old spiky-haired rock music fan from Leeds who has only just started playing PA.

In short: make communication easier and 'richer' (carrying more information), and make incentives better (more rewards for keeping players, helping them grow, cooperating/trading with them).
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 11:58   #211
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walldo
Why paying for a game when I can not play with my friends.

I want to comment on this bit. And say simply that you can play with your friends. The current galaxy setup is designed to help you meet new people - especially new players (so you can teach them the ropes and bring them into the community). Alliance in game tags are the vehicle we offer for playing with your friends - you can play with up to 59 of them.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:04   #212
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob

lots of good stuff
I couldn't agree more with all of that, as you say though, how to do some of that is the question. Though Appoco and I have discussed the idea of using the r19 alliance score system for galaxies.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:05   #213
Ziw
cute and fluffy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Ziw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I want to comment on this bit. And say simply that you can play with your friends. The current galaxy setup is designed to help you meet new people - especially new players (so you can teach them the ropes and bring them into the community). Alliance in game tags are the vehicle we offer for playing with your friends - you can play with up to 59 of them.
Actually, you now can play with 2 of your friends, and attack with 59 of those in the same tag, unless they get a very suiteable incoming wich is not from the cluster, becouse if they'r fleetcatched from within the cluster there is acutally only maybe 2 of your freinds that can help out. As your alliance can not defend it, your cluster ally might not exist, and your gal might be only 3 active once becouse of BP size.
So, BP's now must be even better than before
Just pray you don't get to many hostiles in a cluster
__________________
[23:19:48] <wish> Thats gay. I like it
Ziw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:09   #214
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziw
Actually, you now can play with 2 of your friends, and attack with 59 of those in the same tag, unless they get a very suiteable incoming wich is not from the cluster, becouse if they'r fleetcatched from within the cluster there is acutally only maybe 2 of your freinds that can help out. As your alliance can not defend it, your cluster ally might not exist, and your gal might be only 3 active once becouse of BP size.
So, BP's now must be even better than before
Just pray you don't get to many hostiles in a cluster
I still don't understand why people can't be in a tag with their friends...
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:10   #215
Ziw
cute and fluffy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Ziw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I still don't understand why people can't be in a tag with their friends...
Well, you can, and problly will, but you can't actually help them out when it's actually the most needed.
__________________
[23:19:48] <wish> Thats gay. I like it
Ziw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:11   #216
aNgRyDuCk
Hired Thug
 
aNgRyDuCk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Illinois USA
Posts: 894
aNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round 20 Changes

when you had 5 man bp's. you could game with your friends, defend your friends in galaxy....people enjoy that comradery and benefit of the buddy packs..now, it's just 3 of you, ppl get left out, and it's possible they get totally seperated by being in different clusters. how can you not see how decreasing bp size will suck

kal it seems as if everything you want to do leads to screwing the alliance aspect of pa. YOU WLL NOT get new players unless jolt spends some damn money on advertising. word of mouth isnt getting it done, clearly, or we would see the member base decreasing round after round

alliances are, and always will have to be an aspect of pa, making game changes to jack alliances around only pisses ppl off... a lot (the majority) play for their alliances, and the friends they've made in those alliances. you undermine that aspect of the game you sign pa's death warrant
__________________
Anatidaephobia is the fear that somewhere in the world, there is a duck watching you......
aNgRyDuCk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:31   #217
Walldo
Stealth & Shadows
 
Walldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wall|y-doh
Posts: 102
Walldo is on a distinguished road
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I want to comment on this bit. And say simply that you can play with your friends. The current galaxy setup is designed to help you meet new people - especially new players (so you can teach them the ropes and bring them into the community). Alliance in game tags are the vehicle we offer for playing with your friends - you can play with up to 59 of them.
Don't talk about me with new peeps. I paid every single round for 6 random peeps in my galaxy, mostly newbies to show them how pa can be, Alot of people I know are from that. My galaxy community is mostly from all peeps who where onces in my galaxy. I almost never exile an planet. but does it get for me when I am good for the game?

I get bashed bashed bashed bashed by uber galaxies. Most good players exile out of the galaxy cause we have alot of lesser active players. The only planets I can trust they will defend me no matter what, are my BP m8's.

I am talking here for players who wanna have a fun play, who are working, don't have full time to play, who are happy in an galaxy ranked 78 like last round my galaxy was. take that part away and for me the game is dead.

Friends are mostly in an other alliance KAL, maybe try to learn abit better how we fun peeps play.

Your post maked me very mad,
__________________
"The Mighty Walldo Experience"


Playing since RND1 and counting

Proud to have been

Newdawn

Wolfpack - WPO - OoO - Kralizec Stealth & Shadows - []LCH[] - [1up] - VisioN - TFD
Ultores - Conspiracy Theory - Concordium - WaC - Blue Tuba - Fury - Thieves & Pirates - OUZO -Vengeance - Elysium - Mistu - LOST - 4S - GoCi - FAnG - Novus Ordo Seclorum - Xanadu - BULL - VGN -xVx

Last edited by Walldo; 19 Dec 2006 at 12:37.
Walldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:38   #218
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walldo
Don't talk about me with new peeps. I paid every single round for 6 random peeps in my galaxy, mostly newbies to show them, Alot of people I know are from that. My galaxy community is mostly from all peeps who where onces in my galaxy. I almost never exile an planet. but does it get for me when I am good for the game?

I get bashed bashed bashed bashed by uber galaxies. Most good played exile out of the galaxy cause we have alot of lesser active players. The only planets I can trust on they will defend me no matter what, are my BP m8's.

I am talking here for players who wanna have a fun play, who are working, don't have full time to play, who are happy in an galaxy ranked 78 like last round my galaxy was. take that part away and for me the game is dead.

Friends are mostly in an other alliance KAL, maybe try to learn abit better how we fun peeps play.

Your post maked me very mad,
I very much understand what you are saying, but we can't have a universe setup that caters to every single type of game play. While you will be in a galaxy with two less friends than last round, chances are some of your friends will also be in your cluster as well, so I would argue that the changes might actualy allow you to play with more of your friends than you could last round.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:39   #219
Walldo
Stealth & Shadows
 
Walldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wall|y-doh
Posts: 102
Walldo is on a distinguished road
Re: Round 20 Changes

btw,

the whole gameplay doesn't matter for me and my m8's, we will adept on it. Only the bp does matter.

Better is to have priv galaxies with cluster allies around
__________________
"The Mighty Walldo Experience"


Playing since RND1 and counting

Proud to have been

Newdawn

Wolfpack - WPO - OoO - Kralizec Stealth & Shadows - []LCH[] - [1up] - VisioN - TFD
Ultores - Conspiracy Theory - Concordium - WaC - Blue Tuba - Fury - Thieves & Pirates - OUZO -Vengeance - Elysium - Mistu - LOST - 4S - GoCi - FAnG - Novus Ordo Seclorum - Xanadu - BULL - VGN -xVx
Walldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:42   #220
Ziw
cute and fluffy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Ziw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the roughZiw is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walldo
btw,

the whole gameplay doesn't matter for me and my m8's, we will adept on it. Only the bp does matter.

Better is to have priv galaxies with cluster allies around
Agreed, either actually have the alliances usefull, or remove then for the private gal's to come, or the BIGGER BP's.
This halfarsed stuff with semi this and semi that will only lead to well, makeing it hard to play, seeing how your gal, bp, ally, all can be quite useless.
This is going to make the WAY more demanding.
Now you need 2 UBER players in BP, couse the c ally problly can't help, and your ally can't.
Tho, ofc, I see the point of not canceling the aliance tags all in all, but I actually think it would be better now.
Bring back the fun in pa, not make it confuseing.
__________________
[23:19:48] <wish> Thats gay. I like it
Ziw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:43   #221
Walldo
Stealth & Shadows
 
Walldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wall|y-doh
Posts: 102
Walldo is on a distinguished road
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I very much understand what you are saying, but we can't have a universe setup that caters to every single type of game play. While you will be in a galaxy with two less friends than last round, chances are some of your friends will also be in your cluster as well, so I would argue that the changes might actualy allow you to play with more of your friends than you could last round.

hmm choosing between who? I play with beast togheter since rnd 9.5, Phatman from rnd 10, Spiney from rnd 3, Kretin from rnd 10.

Tell me, who should I choose?

Or some other m8's I play with since rnd 1 till now

I cann't choose between them, so will be a random round. I do not pay. I don't give away my normal 6 credits. I doubt my m8's will pay. So thats allready around 15 credits lesser. Good job
__________________
"The Mighty Walldo Experience"


Playing since RND1 and counting

Proud to have been

Newdawn

Wolfpack - WPO - OoO - Kralizec Stealth & Shadows - []LCH[] - [1up] - VisioN - TFD
Ultores - Conspiracy Theory - Concordium - WaC - Blue Tuba - Fury - Thieves & Pirates - OUZO -Vengeance - Elysium - Mistu - LOST - 4S - GoCi - FAnG - Novus Ordo Seclorum - Xanadu - BULL - VGN -xVx
Walldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:48   #222
aNgRyDuCk
Hired Thug
 
aNgRyDuCk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Illinois USA
Posts: 894
aNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet societyaNgRyDuCk is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I very much understand what you are saying, but we can't have a universe setup that caters to every single type of game play. While you will be in a galaxy with two less friends than last round, chances are some of your friends will also be in your cluster as well, so I would argue that the changes might actualy allow you to play with more of your friends than you could last round.
you can't say "chances are" as you have absolutely no basis for that comment, smaller buddy packs, more galaxies, smaller number of planets per galaxy..all that supports a greater possability that you WILL NOT be in the same cluster. The PA team has a responsability to attempt to cater to all different types of players, it's just that you've completely missed the boat on that. I realise it's impossible to please everyone, but every statement you make Kal seems to lean towards "let's get rid of alliances" so the small amount of allianceless players can flourish. News Flash, again, Alliances are the only thing holding this game together. The communities based within the alliances, the ppl that want to game together, is the glue. without it, you got no player base. Maybe you get your changes implemented and the round gets done, watch how many players you lose
__________________
Anatidaephobia is the fear that somewhere in the world, there is a duck watching you......

Last edited by aNgRyDuCk; 19 Dec 2006 at 12:56.
aNgRyDuCk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 12:55   #223
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Firstly, communication is incredibly valuable. A player who does not communicate with others will simply be exiled or ignored. Worst of all, they may simply not understand why this is the case (because they never talk to anyone). So PA really needs to find a way of encouraging newbies to take the first step in talking to their galaxies. The manual, quick start guide and so on need to make this point absolutely clear to new players: you must talk to your galaxy or you will get no enjoyment from the game.
For me, I think the interface of planetarion needs changing to encourage this. In a game like EVE (which is terrifically dull to start but i'm sure it gets exciting at some point) you are shoehorned through a tutorial and made to go through the essential things to communicate with other players. Was it worth the cash, I could have played eve quite happily on my own knowing no one to start off with. Planetarion must be the same. In fact, this has to be the starting point and the guiding principle upon which any game of planetarion is designed.

Quote:
Secondly, revamp the galaxy scoring system. I don't (yet!) have any suggestions on this, but the idea of different scoring systems for planets, alliances and galaxies opens up some interesting possibilities. Perhaps some real penalties for galaxies which consist mostly of planets which exiled in with pre-existing high scores? (e.g. something similar to how alliance scores now work). Extra XP for defending in-gal? Perhaps extra salvage on in-galaxy defences?
I think the r19 alliance scoring system is somewhat more appropriate. But even then, all you might see is high-value alliance planets bunch together and use galaxies to defend their roids. The sad fact is that for a long time, it's been a case that he who exiles wins in terms of galaxies.

Quote:
There needs to be a way in which newbies can contribute something useful to a galaxy. In the old days, that might simply have been initiating some eonium roids to be farmed by the galaxy's biggest planets. Now we might need something a bit more subtle and interesting. However, the eonium point is an interesting one: could we find a way in which small/new planets can be really good at something that big planets are really bad at? (I will personally beat the hell out of anyone who suggests 'scanning' here). Perhaps some resource that small planets can make lots of which large planets can't, which they can then trade for great mutual benefit? (thus creating an incentive for the big planet player to encourage the little guy to be more active).
A lazy suggestion might be just to remove exiling. This will result in several alliance players throwing their toys out of the pram, but with clusters and them having to play for value - well if you're in a rubbish cluster and a galaxy full of newbies, best get on with it then, as you've got no hope of being successful without communicating. Having a galaxy like 9:10 is great, but I don't think these kinds of galaxies however awesome they are is good for planetarion.

Another suggestion on top is to require GC's to have an absolute majority of people in the galaxy - if you want to be able to administrate your galaxy, you'll need to communicate to get people to vote for you so you can elect ministers and the like.

The next part of your post follows on quite nicely, actually.

Quote:
Also, I think we need a proper 21st-century communication system. In-game avatars, photographs, links to MSN/Yahoo/etc. status, the whole lot (supported by the passport!). No wonder newbies get exiled: when I see a new planet in my galaxy called 'Sir Flibble of Moob' who never appears on IRC, I am going to want to exile him. But if I can see an avatar, some forum posts, perhaps get his MSN details and view a brief personal bio, I will feel much more of a 'connection' to that person and will be more likely to try to help them. The current system makes players so anonymous that exiling (quite a harsh thing to do) is easy; it's impossible to feel bad for 'Sir Flibble', but I might feel bad about exiling Joe the 19-year-old spiky-haired rock music fan from Leeds who has only just started playing PA.

In short: make communication easier and 'richer' (carrying more information), and make incentives better (more rewards for keeping players, helping them grow, cooperating/trading with them).
I think this is also necessary, and it kind of fits in with the interface of the whole game. In my opinion IRC has to be galaxy ready with every galaxy having it's own easily accessible galaxy channel if you are from that galaxy, with access controls available to the GC, in game - not only that, you should be auto joined when you log in to the game if that's possible. If you can login and bang, get to a channel where you know everyone from your galaxy is going to be there, instead of #ivegotacoolnameforachannelletsusethisformybuddypack it's going to make things a lot easier.


What also has to happen is that the community has to take some responsibility. Fake nicking must stop. People need to build genuine relationships with their galaxy members or all of this isn't going to work. The problem as I see it is that some people have become too obsessed with playing for their alliance rather than playing the game which might be better for them in the long run.

The problem that I see with the changes (as they stand) is that they don't actually change a lot, they just make it harder and more harsh, so all you are going to get is the same people, having to work even harder to survive, when the players we have at the minute are in no fit state to. We are a universe full of washouts, with lots of players playing to only a fraction of their best; we need new blood.

Oh and get rid of military scans, they really do make the game too easy for the top players
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

Last edited by lokken; 19 Dec 2006 at 13:13.
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 13:12   #224
Walldo
Stealth & Shadows
 
Walldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wall|y-doh
Posts: 102
Walldo is on a distinguished road
Re: Round 20 Changes

I never fake nick, I dislike it.
__________________
"The Mighty Walldo Experience"


Playing since RND1 and counting

Proud to have been

Newdawn

Wolfpack - WPO - OoO - Kralizec Stealth & Shadows - []LCH[] - [1up] - VisioN - TFD
Ultores - Conspiracy Theory - Concordium - WaC - Blue Tuba - Fury - Thieves & Pirates - OUZO -Vengeance - Elysium - Mistu - LOST - 4S - GoCi - FAnG - Novus Ordo Seclorum - Xanadu - BULL - VGN -xVx
Walldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 15:16   #225
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal

I think its also worth telling you all about some casual research I'm doing at the moment. Basically I've been going around talking to people who play competing games and aksing them why they don't play PA. There was a recurring theme that somewhat shocked me. I was expecting them to talk about the cost, but in fact none of them really cared about that. What they did say however was that they didn't play PA becuase of its community. One of the claims was that the PA community doesn't care - it doesn't look after you if you are bashed, it doesn't help you meet new friend, etc. This shocked me as i always thought the community was one of our strengths. Perhaps some food for thought.
I like to point out that about the bashing part is the one of the main reasons why I hear players quit. BUT I think it is rather cheecky of you to say that it is the communitys fault that bashing exists while there have been several debates around the fact that we are bashing our own playerbase to death. You have always stated that you wanted this game to be a war game and earlier you also stated that you wanted this to be a game around attacks. Have it ever occured to you that the fact that a more attack based game CREATES more bashing? Have it ever occured to you that the fact that zik's steal all the ships leaving the player left with NOTHING makes people quit?

Stop blaming it on the community when its the creators fault that the game is being played this way.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 15:27   #226
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I like to point out that about the bashing part is the one of the main reasons why I hear players quit. BUT I think it is rather cheecky of you to say that it is the communitys fault that bashing exists while there have been several debates around the fact that we are bashing our own playerbase to death. You have always stated that you wanted this game to be a war game and earlier you also stated that you wanted this to be a game around attacks. Have it ever occured to you that the fact that a more attack based game CREATES more bashing? Have it ever occured to you that the fact that zik's steal all the ships leaving the player left with NOTHING makes people quit?

Stop blaming it on the community when its the creators fault that the game is being played this way.
u misunderstand, the point the people were making wasn't that bashing exists - it exists in all games, but in the other games the people help u get over your losses. in essence the people were saying that the other games were more friendly and had nicer people.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 15:28   #227
Walldo
Stealth & Shadows
 
Walldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wall|y-doh
Posts: 102
Walldo is on a distinguished road
Re: Round 20 Changes

neh Kargool, I must say its a and and.

And the community and the creators.

No of.

The community could do some things alot better.
The Creators could do some things alot better.

For the alliance part the solution is easy, get rid of the alliance ingame. and get some nice round 2/3 tags up. So you can def everybody.
or make sure you can setup 2 allies per planet. 1 normal ally and 1 cluster ally.
So nobody has to choose between an normal ally or cluster ally ingame.
__________________
"The Mighty Walldo Experience"


Playing since RND1 and counting

Proud to have been

Newdawn

Wolfpack - WPO - OoO - Kralizec Stealth & Shadows - []LCH[] - [1up] - VisioN - TFD
Ultores - Conspiracy Theory - Concordium - WaC - Blue Tuba - Fury - Thieves & Pirates - OUZO -Vengeance - Elysium - Mistu - LOST - 4S - GoCi - FAnG - Novus Ordo Seclorum - Xanadu - BULL - VGN -xVx
Walldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 15:30   #228
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
u misunderstand, the point the people were making wasn't that bashing exists - it exists in all games, but in the other games the people help u get over your losses. in essence the people were saying that the other games were more friendly and had nicer people.
Id like to see some of your "research" before I actually belive a shit of what you are saying.

But the point I made is still valid in my honest opinion, this game is to attack based and makes people quit due to the fact that alliances are unbalanced towards galaxies and introducing another level to balance against will not make the game more userfriendly.

Where are the tutorials? Where are the userfriendly interface? Where are the accessability towards new players? As a creator you should KNOW that new players needs to grasp some basics before they will catch intrest.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 15:37   #229
The Real Arfy
Registered User
 
The Real Arfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,081
The Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Round 20 Changes

Where did you do said market research? Did you get any other statistics, e.g. their age?
__________________
Dynamic Salvage!

[16:10:34] <[lfc]stif|afk> "dont be the worst in your alliance, join CT. We have Arfy!"
The Real Arfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 16:07   #230
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
Where did you do said market research? Did you get any other statistics, e.g. their age?
Its only been very preliminary so far. I only posted it becuase I was shocked by hwat was said. Yes it waa a poor sample etc, but at least it means I won't be going to start a marketing campaign based around how wonderful the community is.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 16:10   #231
Thex
Average Thex
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 121
Thex will become famous soon enoughThex will become famous soon enough
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Have it ever occured to you that the fact that a more attack based game CREATES more bashing? Have it ever occured to you that the fact that zik's steal all the ships leaving the player left with NOTHING makes people quit?
It's generally agreed that the XP system has pushing attacker:defender score ratios in the correct direction and singular one on one bashing is less frequent. Obviously multiple waves etc, can also amount to bashing, but huge planet vs small planet is less of an occurance. It's also generally agreed that the XP system has created a more attacking based game.

So the XP based system did create an attack based game while reducing bashing.

Therefore I feel it's too simplistic to say an attack based game will result in bashing.

However there are consequences to other changes that cause bashing - namely that there is a good proportion of people that believe that short cluster ETA's and alliance score based on value will create a bashing scenario.

Yes stealing is not nice and the very language people use should be enough to tell you that by an large it's harsh on the recipient - you take/gain roids, but you steal a fleet.

I'm all for changing parts of the game, but please consider features such as extra cov op missions, more/less fleet slots, planet defence systems, a new race or two, fleet changes (in sucessive rounds each race has a steal, emp, steal ship), etc.

Features that challenge our methods of play not something that means we push more people out of the game. No one wants want a formula to win the game, they want a interesting addictive new challenge each round.
__________________
Thex

My alliance is [BIG]ger than yours

[ex LOST], [ex IF], [ex G-II]
Thex is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 16:41   #232
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
.... there was one other option we considered - removing alliance rankings entirly. This would remove the emphasis on alliances playing to win and switch it to alliances playing for their members. I think we would still need some sort of list of alliances on the rankigns pages so people knew who was out there - perhaps just a list ranked by number of planets (but with the number not actually shown)
And this will work because there's no way anyone would be able to produce alliance rankings if the game didn't do it for them.

(I'm sorry, I usually resist the temptation to pick holes in single points but this was was so ridiculous that I had to say something).
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 17:01   #233
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
And this will work because there's no way anyone would be able to produce alliance rankings if the game didn't do it for them.

(I'm sorry, I usually resist the temptation to pick holes in single points but this was was so ridiculous that I had to say something).
Well actually people wouldn't be able to have 100% accurate alliance rankings without the game giving out information. Its all about changing the emphasis.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 17:34   #234
Barrow|Pony
snadwich fetcher
 
Barrow|Pony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ONE LOVE
Posts: 660
Barrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond reputeBarrow|Pony has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Round 20 Changes

First, please don't base strategic marketing plans on admittedly casual research with a small sample group.

Next, I'm afraid that 'passing the buck' as per your previous posts is a cheap way to avoid the, seemingly, inevitable fate of Planetarion.

Yes, changes make the game different. Yes, a different game is essential to the growth of this community and the future of the game. But does that mean you should make changes for the sake of making changeS?

Planetarion would have drastically different gameplay if instead of collecting asteroids, planets needed to court favor with Rudolph the Red-Nosed Universal Dominator by selling him christmas toys at bargain prices, but is that a smart decision? Obviously the example is silly and stupid but it serves to explain that change is not necessarily equated with good change.

Make smart decisions by taking stakeholders into your development process, not by marginalizing them.

Some of these changes are great and congratulations for having the initiative to bring them into round 20. But some serve to break up one of Planetarion's strengths, that is the relatively comepetitive alliance structure where players can compete on both an individual and collective level. Creating a dichotomy here just hurts that strength, and from what you've explained above, was instituted to 'do something different.' That's bad business.

Make smart, informed decisions about the future of the game...and who knows, the game might have a future.
__________________
Nude On!
Barrow|Pony is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 17:52   #235
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
First, please don't base strategic marketing plans on admittedly casual research with a small sample group.
I quite agree. Paying any attention to the PA forums is stupid.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 20:52   #236
Osidiradadumpf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 39
Osidiradadumpf can only hope to improve
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I want to comment on this bit. And say simply that you can play with your friends. The current galaxy setup is designed to help you meet new people - especially new players (so you can teach them the ropes and bring them into the community). Alliance in game tags are the vehicle we offer for playing with your friends - you can play with up to 59 of them.
R19 was the first game I played and without the ingal support i would have been creamed... During the game I met a bunch of people and with some of them I wanted to play in a buddypack.. Why??? I want to be sure that they are in the same galaxy as I am!! The nice part about galaxy def, is that they were able to send ALL kind of ships, so when my friends get bashed by an couple of XAN frigs, I was able to send my Cath Battleships.

I always considered Alliance Def as a BONUS, and for me (without the inner circle of friends some people had) Cluster Defend was non-existant. Now, that alliance def is taken away and I can't play with ALL the friends I have made.

In my case the galaxy I ended up was very nice, and we had a very good defense for a long time.. But I do know that this wasn't the case in a lot of other galaxies. If you are unlucky you might get stuck in a worthless dying galaxy and I don't think i will be bothered to play that for long. Having an reasonable sized buddypack IS the only way to go, and with an active core of players you have a better chance of building something up.

Alliances are not for playing with your friends, that task if for your galaxy. Also, I really didn't liked that my galaxy KEPT growing and growing You end up with an bunch of people you have had never contact with and for which you don't even know if they are play or are farms. Galaxy should be small, 10 - 12 people TOPS.

At this moment, I think PA should concentrate on trying to keep players INSIDE an gal and having at least an sizeable core of an galaxy IS IMPORTANT. And three DOESN"T CUT IT.
Osidiradadumpf is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 20:56   #237
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
R19 was the first game I played and without the ingal support i would have been creamed... During the game I met a bunch of people and with some of them I wanted to play in a buddypack.. Why??? I want to be sure that they are in the same galaxy as I am!! The nice part about galaxy def, is that they were able to send ALL kind of ships, so when my friends get bashed by an couple of XAN frigs, I was able to send my Cath Battleships.

I always considered Alliance Def as a BONUS, and for me (without the inner circle of friends some people had) Cluster Defend was non-existant. Now, that alliance def is taken away and I can't play with ALL the friends I have made.

In my case the galaxy I ended up was very nice, and we had a very good defense for a long time.. But I do know that this wasn't the case in a lot of other galaxies. If you are unlucky you might get stuck in a worthless dying galaxy and I don't think i will be bothered to play that for long. Having an reasonable sized buddypack IS the only way to go, and with an active core of players you have a better chance of building something up.

Alliances are not for playing with your friends, that task if for your galaxy. Also, I really didn't liked that my galaxy KEPT growing and growing You end up with an bunch of people you have had never contact with and for which you don't even know if they are play or are farms. Galaxy should be small, 10 - 12 people TOPS.

At this moment, I think PA should concentrate on trying to keep players INSIDE an gal and having at least an sizeable core of an galaxy IS IMPORTANT. And three DOESN"T CUT IT.
The problem here is with the galaxy size. Atm galaxies are to unbalances in favour them towards f.example alliances. Also with the low number of galaxies we have each round we risk the double booking/triplebooking incidents that have been rather annoying for players in galaxies before.

We need to do something to make alliances smaller, and as galaxy size is kind of dependant on how big a buddypack is then we might have a problem.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Dec 2006, 21:14   #238
Osidiradadumpf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 39
Osidiradadumpf can only hope to improve
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
The problem here is with the galaxy size. Atm galaxies are to unbalances in favour them towards f.example alliances. Also with the low number of galaxies we have each round we risk the double booking/triplebooking incidents that have been rather annoying for players in galaxies before.

We need to do something to make alliances smaller, and as galaxy size is kind of dependant on how big a buddypack is then we might have a problem.
Another problem is (as far as I can see it) that in the last two weeks, new planets will have nothing to aim for. We had an bunch of 3-4mln planets and a bunch of 400k planets.. When those 400k planets had incomming, I just send enough ships to kill off the attacker. In some cases they landed and got utterly destroyed. The defended player might have liked it (with a lot i have had never contact with) but I am sure that the attacking planet didn't liked it. Maybe the attacker was a new player or maybe not, but if he was a new player and just joined in, I am quite sure he will never play again. Maybe its smarter to let new planets start (halfway the game) in c100 galaxy and let them fight among themselves..

Also, the current galaxy system doesn't work at all.. The very large number of disbanded galaxies are a living proof of that..

What do you do if you get no def inside an gal?? You exile and a reasonable sized buddypack is the ONLY sure answer that you get some def. As soon as the most active galaxymembers start leaving YOUR galaxy dies and its time to pack your stuff and move too. When Havoc started my gal had THREE of the original crew left!!!
Osidiradadumpf is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Dec 2006, 00:35   #239
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Round 20 Changes

Cluster eta advantage for attack == big NO NO
The big planets will feed off the small ones incluster. Eventually, if you are not a top player, you are just an unwilling farm.
I think it's one of the worst ideas i have ever seen returning to PA.
And if you want to make alliance scores based on value, get rid of ziks.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Dec 2006, 00:54   #240
Kenny
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round 20 Changes

it would be interesting to play a round without ziks, to be sure.

unfortunately i doubt the pa team would take such a risk.
  Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Dec 2006, 01:05   #241
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Round 20 Changes

Another idea:
incluster eta for attack = max(8, current eta -1)
incluster eta for defence = max(7, current eta -2)

which means having the last eta research enables alliance mates to still sucesfully defend against incluster fleetcatches.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Dec 2006, 09:44   #242
GReaper
The BOFH
 
GReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
GReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant future
Re: Round 20 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Cluster eta advantage for attack == big NO NO
The big planets will feed off the small ones incluster. Eventually, if you are not a top player, you are just an unwilling farm.
I think it's one of the worst ideas i have ever seen returning to PA.
And if you want to make alliance scores based on value, get rid of ziks.
This is my greatest concern with the ETA changes, it was one of the worst problems with the cluster bonuses in the past. Even with the -2 ETA for defence, it'll be awkward for smaller planets who will end up being used as farms.

I'd prefer something like ETA 6 for all cluster defence regardless of ship type (similar to galaxy), and normal attack ETA. It would still make the game more interesting, but without weaker planets taking the huge hit that will probably come with cluster attack bonuses.
GReaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Dec 2006, 19:32   #243
are
former and current VGN HC
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 149
are is a glorious beacon of lightare is a glorious beacon of lightare is a glorious beacon of lightare is a glorious beacon of lightare is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 20 Changes

Well, I dislike many of the changes as I think the consequences are noth thought over:
BPs: a Buddy Pack is the only way fora palyer to at least aim for a 24x7 guard to at least report incomings. Smaller BPs make this harder and if they are small enough, it is statistically impossible for most BPs to get the 24x7 guard.
Cluster ETA changes for attacks: In general I think clusters are a bad idea just for tehre being to few players to get more than 1 cluster alliance up resulting in the rest of the cluster being bashed dry. But reading all the 13 pages of posts till here and loooong discussions on irc I believe discussing this is a lost cause. So all I do is beg you for at least some sleep by making the smallest possible ETA 8 for attacks. People have to work and sleep. By forcing cluster alliances, gathering intel about online times is by far easier and so people absent for sleep/work will be attacked more with even less possibility to at least move their ships out of the way of the Zik that will come and steal them no matter how much you cripple the Zik as long as stealing exists.
I don't care about if alliances, galaxies and/or planets are judged by value, score or XP or every department on something different. People will go to sandmans and just see they won the round in terms of the other common scoring criteria. And except for the officially winning alliance/galaxy/planet that possibly receive a free credit it won't make a difference which one you officially display.

Regards,
_are_

(edited for typos)
__________________
#VGN, http://vgn.lihas.de/

Last edited by are; 21 Dec 2006 at 19:42.
are is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Dec 2006, 15:41   #244
Cochese
Retired
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
Cochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Round 20 Changes

After forcing myself through five pages of this, I orignally wasn't going to comment...however, I think it's important to note the sense of "life or death" in the majority of these "posts" here.

The game has been changing for six years now, and so far, none of the changes have killed it.
P2P claimed the most casualties, and yes, the playerbase seems to shrink each round.

However, we're all still here paying, playing and moaning about the same old shit. Guess the joke is on us then?


I'm personally waiting to see how everything is all tied together before I criticize what is currently a partial and limited view of the "big picture" for r20. Who knows, the beta process might prove the value-based issue is utter crap, and gets scrapped after all.

In the mean time, maybe go outside and enjoy life. The heroin needle that is PA will still be here, and change regardless of any of our comments.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.

Utterly useless since r3
Cochese is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Dec 2006, 13:06   #245
AndroX
xXx
 
AndroX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 114
AndroX is a name known to allAndroX is a name known to allAndroX is a name known to allAndroX is a name known to allAndroX is a name known to allAndroX is a name known to all
Re: Round 20 Changes

hmm lets see

I forsee alliances mass exiling to get planets, or as much as possible into one cluster due to the Cluster eta being faster as the alliance eta.
I forsee a lot of out of tag planets being added to alliances due to the cluster
eta.

Alliances will base their tactics towards clusters....
Solo planets will get bashed even more...due to not being alliances/cluster alliance.

Just a few thoughts about the r20 -2 c eta.

Then, halve the universe will most likely go unpaid. Since you get a full eta techtree anyways. So why pay for the rest? its not that I pay to see all the skin designs. Its for the actualy game itself(and community) why I play, not the skindesigns

There's alot more stuff thats concidered 'bad' in my opinion about the new idea's for round 20. But instead of typing it here now I'll make a post at end protection time of round 21 to see if we in fact lost more players
__________________
---------------------------------------
Introducing AndroX -The Most Powerful Libido Booster for Men and Women
AndroX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018