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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 09:51   #1
booji
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Post Galaxy Counted Score

It seems slightly odd that the two team elements of the game are scored in very different ways. Allies are done through counted score, with only the top 40 of however many are in that alliance counting towards the win. Galaxies score includes everyone. This seems particularly perverse as apart from the bp you don’t chose your galmates, whereas alliances do choose their members.

This difference would be most easily rectified by applying the alliance system to galaxies; Galaxy Counted Score. To a very minor extent this is already done; the headline score for galaxies is not the real score as it only includes score gained in the galaxy; those who exile in don’t have their score before they joined the gal counted. As a result, I don’t believe this suggestion should be controversial.

So, what would Galaxy Counted Score look like?
It can’t be exactly the same as Ally Counted Score as galaxy sizes change and unlike allies it is not set by the PA crew. As such I would suggest it works as something along the lines of: Average number of planets in a galaxy – 1, with the result rounded down. So, if the average number of planets in a galaxy were 8.2 then the counted number would be 7. Many galaxies would therefore have two planets not counting.

Advantages:
  • Increase galaxy competition: It will mean that more galaxies are in contention for first, so it will be a more interesting race.
  • Makes things more even: Think of those poor galaxies out there this round with 8 people. They did not stand a chance of gal win regardless of how well they played. Under this system they would have as much chance as gals with 9.
  • Prevents last minute disaster: having less counting planets than a galaxy has in total means that if someone goes super-emo and exiles, someone deletes, is closed, or even simply crashes all their fleet on the last day there is some insulation for all the others in the gal who have worked hard. They still have a chance between them. Yes, there will be an impact, but it would not be impossible to overcome as it is at the moment.
  • Encourage inclusiveness: at the moment galaxies that want to go for first need to kick out any new players, people they are unsure are playing to the max, scanners etc. This is terrible for building community. Having a space or two that matter less could make for less cut-throat galaxies that are more inclined to help new players.

Disadvantages:
  • Encourages flagshipping: the ones that are counting count more, so the focus will be on them.
  • Possible disincentive to help: unfortunately, where a member of the galaxy does not count it is encouragement to not to help and improve them as much as you can. Instead they may well end up being def/escort planets.
  • Looking for friends: conversely on exiles it can be an incentive to exile as that final planet score does not matter the galaxy can hold out for friends for longer.

Please give me your comments, ideas, suggestions for how it could be done better etc. I think that this is a simple and reasonably obvious change to make. But I have to admit that as a result of this round I am a little biased on the issue!
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Last edited by booji; 14 Jul 2018 at 09:58.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 11:24   #2
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

Sounds like a valid consideration, specially when gals can be different sized.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 13:30   #3
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

A very good idea and thought out.

But will it be implemented. How long will that take to re-write the code?
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 14:24   #4
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

To late for me to see the change, but giving this rounds actions but some unreasonable people, it would certainly remove blanket punishment.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 15:02   #5
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
To late for me to see the change, but giving this rounds actions but some unreasonable people, it would certainly remove blanket punishment.
Well its surely unreasonable to share passwords with people, good that the MHs was reasonable enough to not give high profiled potential criminals any benefit of the doubt.

Its not the first time known criminals get closed and gal wins is decided on MH actions. This is a good thing.

Tbh, i didnt even know how gal scoring worked earlier, but ive experinced rounds where my gal decided mid round we couldnt compete for gal due to having less planets. It shouldve been changed
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 16:13   #6
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

I still think it's utterly silly to have 33% of a full tag as flak. Not counting one bit towards ally score.

Should raise the counting limit by 10 - 15 or lower tag limit the same atleast.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 17:05   #7
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

This thread is not about ally counting TheoDD. That is a very different argument. Galaxy sizes and whether you get a final person is totally outside the control of the people within the galaxy. With alliances this is not the case. An ally therefore has the 'choice' of having that flack or not. This is not a choice a galaxy has.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 18:51   #8
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well its surely unreasonable to share passwords with people, good that the MHs was reasonable enough to not give high profiled potential criminals any benefit of the doubt.

Its not the first time known criminals get closed and gal wins is decided on MH actions. This is a good thing.

Tbh, i didnt even know how gal scoring worked earlier, but ive experinced rounds where my gal decided mid round we couldnt compete for gal due to having less planets. It shouldve been changed



You literally have no clue as to what you’re talking about.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 19:20   #9
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

You're taking away all my fun, listing all the disadvantages right off the bat.

Anyway, yeah, I dislike the counting member system for alliances for all the reasons you listed. For galaxies, I think there's good reason to implement it, though. First, since they contain so few planets, 1 more or less can make a world of difference. Second, since it makes a world of difference, half the universe already doesn't count: they're in galaxies that have too few planets. No matter how hard they work, they won't ever be able to compete for #1. Going to a system in which (on average) half the galaxies have just 1 non-counting member is an improvement.

Minor nitpick: take largest (non-1:1, non c200) galaxy, minus 1, not average. With late-starting removed, it should(?) be impossible for a galaxy to have two more planets than another galaxy outside of the exile bracket. That way you never have to worry about having galaxies with 2 non-counting members. I want as many counting planets in the universe as possible, for all the reasons you listed.

You know what, your listing of disadvantages is growing on me. I can just say "yeah, because of what you said" while making all my outrageously unfounded claims. And yet, here I am, still on 4 paragraphs.


Random semi-related idea that I'm too lazy to make my own thread for: closed and deleted planets to take up a permanent counting-score slot, both for galaxies and alliances. Kicking or exiling a closed-but-not-yet-deleted planet before it's deleted should not work, obviously, or maybe just be made impossible.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 14 Jul 2018 at 19:30.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 19:57   #10
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Random semi-related idea that I'm too lazy to make my own thread for: closed and deleted planets to take up a permanent counting-score slot, both for galaxies and alliances. Kicking or exiling a closed-but-not-yet-deleted planet before it's deleted should not work, obviously, or maybe just be made impossible.
Even as a guy thats all for "name and shame", the troll is too big in this community for this to be a good idea the way you suggested.
Its well known that people will sign up multies and put em into alliances as spies, and now with this rounds funny incident in the top gal this would be a punishment wich will not be good for new players or the community in general.

Maybe if it was someone being in tag A for x amount of rounds that got closed, it could be a good idea to punish the tag for hosting him. Like Ultores with Zwanstic the other round.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 20:56   #11
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

Think you are going off topic butcher.

The people in 8:8 from the round just gone will be biased towards this but it is a solid idea.

Regardless of what truly happened with Firebird, 8 other people were unduly denied a hard fought win by actions that had nothing to do with them.

If 8 out of 9 counted then Sardaukar would have been our lowest scorer and would have counted once Firebird was deleted. As with his planet still there 8:8 had a 3.7 mill lead at tick stop. Sarduakar was 1.5 mill roughly behind Firebird so if it was 8 out of 9 then 8:8 would still have rightly won. The correct result would still have applied.

I personally see no downside to this proposal and it might entice elite bps to hold on to a n00b and allow them to gain invaluable experience in a competitive environment.

Win win to me
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 21:16   #12
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

Im not sure what is off topic.
All i said that the gal was rightfully punished for holding what MHs belived to be a criminal, but that the counting thing should have been fixed allready since its been a issue for quite sometime that if you dont get the last exile and are one planet short, you are most likely out of the race for top gal.

From an objective stand point 8 people were not unduly denied a hard fought win, but rightfully punished for "hosting a fugitive(according to the MHs)".
But even though the system worked this time, it should be changed because this is one of those rare incidents that most gals wont suffer from.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 22:20   #13
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
This thread is not about ally counting TheoDD. That is a very different argument. Galaxy sizes and whether you get a final person is totally outside the control of the people within the galaxy. With alliances this is not the case. An ally therefore has the 'choice' of having that flack or not. This is not a choice a galaxy has.
I just think it's silly to "balance" one big aspect of the game, and not the other.
I like your suggestion, I'm just saying that this indirectly affects the other aspects of the game aswell.
Can do decent changes on both fronts, maybe even the XP formula aswell.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 22:58   #14
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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I just think it's silly to "balance" one big aspect of the game, and not the other.
It is a bit optimistic to think the PA team will change one thing let alone 2!

I dont really want this to be about 8:8. While it is what caused me to think of posting this I hope the suggestion stands on its own without context. If it were to only be a solution to what happened to 8:8 I would not think it worth doing. It is worthwhile because it has other benefits that help the broader game too.

BB's views on punishing people for transgressions 30 rounds ago should go elsewhere; PD not suggestions.
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 23:06   #15
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
It is a bit optimistic to think the PA team will change one thing let alone 2!

I dont really want this to be about 8:8. While it is what caused me to think of posting this I hope the suggestion stands on its own without context. If it were to only be a solution to what happened to 8:8 I would not think it worth doing. It is worthwhile because it has other benefits that help the broader game too.

BB's views on punishing people for transgressions 30 rounds ago should go elsewhere; PD not suggestions.
That's the problem with BB no sense about what actually happens in pa.

And yes it stands alone. I like the idea purely on the grounds of helping noobs
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Unread 14 Jul 2018, 23:35   #16
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
It is a bit optimistic to think the PA team will change one thing let alone 2!

I dont really want this to be about 8:8. While it is what caused me to think of posting this I hope the suggestion stands on its own without context. If it were to only be a solution to what happened to 8:8 I would not think it worth doing. It is worthwhile because it has other benefits that help the broader game too.

BB's views on punishing people for transgressions 30 rounds ago should go elsewhere; PD not suggestions.
You would be surprised, but im sure a change to how galaxies is scored is very likely to be changed in the near future if a good enough suggestions on how to change it comes in here.

What happend to 8:8 is why this problem is relevant to you right now, and once Firebird brings 8:8 into the discussion directly people should be allowed to come in with other suggestion how to punish gals like 8:8 in the future, and this time its actualy not me comming with that suggestion, Mz did.

I dont see what i have to do with all this when im not even the one bringing in 8:8 in the first place.
I just pointed out the punishment this time did fit the crime after Firebirds post, even if there never was any crime done by Firebird this round or any rounds in the past. Quilty by assosiation, being a Apprime HC.
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Unread 15 Jul 2018, 10:33   #17
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

Guilty by association, nothing more than a dictatorship from the MH, even when presented with facts and evidence of no wrong doing on my part they still insisted on bringing in blanket punishment for the gal when no wrong doing on their part even had they felt the need to keep my planet closed was there any cause to delete it? casing point Henrik round 29.

The driving part on this post by booji was what had gone on this round, however there are many of valid points in Boojis post regarding the inability for galaxies with fewer members to compete in turn I fully agree with him on what could be done to change things, however I won't be around to see whether they ever do or do not change the status quo,

I told carDi I have been trying to leave this game for a long time and Ace's actions this round will be the nail in that coffin irrespective of carDi's actions MH just panderered to carDi's plan.
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Unread 15 Jul 2018, 14:44   #18
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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Guilty by association, nothing more than a dictatorship from the MH, even when presented with facts and evidence of no wrong doing on my part
Why did cardi have your password in the first place though? No one in PA currently has the ability to login to my PA account because, why would they if I haven't been account sharing now or in the past? I don't actually know the details here so excuse my ignorance if he managed to get your password in some "other" way, but it looks suspicious to me and I would imagine also to the MH, so I'm not surprised by their actions at all and neither should you be.

On topic though and while being in the galaxy to benefit from firebirds deletion, I actually think this is a great idea. It's retarded that galaxies unlucky enough not to get the 9th planet (this round) are penalised for no reason other than blind luck. A system whereby the same number of planets count to score for every galaxy is great in my eyes.
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Unread 15 Jul 2018, 15:19   #19
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

My password has never changed and wouldn't take a rocket scientist to work it out, the whole argument from MH was it looked like we had planned it, after speaking with MH they stated that he changed my password so I shouldn't have been able to log back in however he changed my password back to the original password which had MH looked into it they would have seen his IP doing so and mine changing my password on 2 occasions.

The actions of the MH team were completely outrageous I reported myself for having been hacked which I believed to be the correct thing to do, their attitude completely stank as a paying customer I would have expected better treatment there was no information or evidence presented just accusations, even after I had presented facts and evidence the handling on their side was appalling. It only became apparent via hear say and rumours as to what was actually going on.
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Unread 17 Jul 2018, 01:02   #20
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

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My password has never changed and wouldn't take a rocket scientist to work it out
I'm still confused, my PA password has always been the same too, but I've never given it to anyone because account sharing isn't allowed, and therefore no one can access my account.

It's just as plausible that cardi forgot to use his proxy/whatever when logging into your account, he messaged you to warn you and you reported yourself as 'hacked' to cover your own back.

Rules are rules unfortunately and regardless of whether you paid for a credit or not, you are still subject to the same ones as everyone else and account sharing is a closable offence. I can't comment on the MH process as I've never fallen foul of it myself as a clean player but I can imagine that it is probably frustrating when you want your account reopened.

Sorry for taking the thread off topic, the idea is still great!
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Unread 17 Jul 2018, 12:21   #21
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Re: Galaxy Counted Score

You know carDi anything for a bit drama, carDi had been removed from HR and I hadn't spoken with him for several weeks, it became apparent carDi was closed when Kalipso told me.

This was the point I quizzed him and I was informed he was closed for 3x fleet attacking with his wife.

It's old news now, good luck going forward and hope it doesn't happen to you.
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