User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 01:54   #1
XelNaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 260
XelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to behold
Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
XP = roids * bravery factor
bravery factor = 5*min(2,target_score/planet_score)*min(2,target_value/planet_value)
What's this about now? It does NOTHING, simply nothing, it will allow the exactly same thing to happen as last round, as there will always be other XP whores with enough score to get full cap. And they WON'T bother defending. So why this change? Why this step back again?

The other XP formula from the beta was GREAT, I was looking forward to a GREAT round, the not losing ships for more XP component, why was it removed? WHY?!?

If this is serious, I want a refund for my credits, since I won't play PA, then. Simple as. And I guess many more are really disappointed by this revert development.

Or what do others think?

P.S.: for those that didn't see it or wonder where I got that quote from, it's in the news.
__________________
(XelNaga) Everybody please vote for Planetarion at http://www.mpogd.com !!!! We are second, we have to get first place back!
(SethMace) omg 2nd!!!
(SethMace) we must block with 3rd to take them down!!!11

(Marneus) also the damn thing aint always right 4 + 79 = i type 81 and it kicked me back to the login again grrr

Last edited by XelNaga; 10 Apr 2006 at 22:29.
XelNaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 02:00   #2
Mista
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 25
Mista is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

where did this bit goto
survival factor = ((intial total attacking fleet value + value of ships stolen by attackers/3 - total

that was only part to address problem
Mista is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 02:06   #3
Sengir
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
Sengir is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

ridiculous...

this change really is disappointing.
the xp thingie presented in beta was great and was a huge factor to look forward to r17.
So XelNaga is absolutley right by asking: Why change something that obviously had a great chance to work just fine? :/
__________________
Escape
Sengir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 02:24   #4
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

tbh, if they want to change something - run a beta test for it otherwise youve simply introduced an untested and unstable element into a (probably) balanced situation for the sake of it.
It could be disasterous - ruining another round for the sake of more XP whores

I would suggest either a test is done to determine how this affects things - or the change is reverted back
Personally, im in favour of the change being reverted back - theres no need to tweak an XP formula that people are happy with
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 02:25   #5
Bubert Samson
Come Closer, I Have Candy
 
Bubert Samson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vast Regions of Space Without a Lifejacket
Posts: 213
Bubert Samson is a jewel in the roughBubert Samson is a jewel in the roughBubert Samson is a jewel in the roughBubert Samson is a jewel in the rough
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

...and here I am thinking that I may have a chance as a value player in round 17.

*sigh*
__________________
MetallicAnomaly

[ROCK] || Conspiracy Theory || Ascendancy

Rounds Played: 3-9 16-19 23-33

I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Bubert Samson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 03:00   #6
MrPedantic
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 63
MrPedantic is a splendid one to beholdMrPedantic is a splendid one to beholdMrPedantic is a splendid one to beholdMrPedantic is a splendid one to beholdMrPedantic is a splendid one to beholdMrPedantic is a splendid one to beholdMrPedantic is a splendid one to behold
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Which one of the pateam are responsible for this monstrosity?
Will they put their head on the chopping block when the round turns into farce because of their incompetance in understanding what this change means?
MrPedantic is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 03:08   #7
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

I like how this was done. First there was plenty of careful pandering to the community. Egos were appeased and pride salvaged. Promises were made that it would all be fixed for next round. Then there was a nice amount of public testing. The stats were checked, the formulas were checked, people were set at their ease. And then it was all changed to be the exact same as last round anyway.

This formula is demonstrably shit. No doubt this is why it's being introduced now, with zero testing and zero explanation.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 03:16   #8
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I like how this was done. First there was plenty of careful pandering to the community. Egos were appeased and pride salvaged. Promises were made that it would all be fixed for next round. Then there was a nice amount of public testing. The stats were checked, the formulas were checked, people were set at their ease. And then it was all changed to be the exact same as last round anyway.

This formula is demonstrably shit. No doubt this is why it's being introduced now, with zero testing and zero explanation.
when you put it like that, it does sound rather underhanded :/
i hope to god this isnt the case. who was responsible for the change anyway and can they justify to the community why they did it?
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 03:26   #9
Travler
Bona Fide Jesus Freak
 
Travler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
Travler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to all
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Feels like the rug was pulled out beneath us.

This is really exploitable. Imagine an alliance not tagging up till 2 weeks till round end. Each person just targets the other trading roids and constant increase in xp due to higher and higher scores.

<Nick of a noted XP wh0re> lol i'm so gonna wtfpwn other xp wh0res next round if this formula stays :P

Suicide FTW again
__________________
Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
The Illuminati - [NoS] - R14-13

Last edited by Travler; 10 Apr 2006 at 03:46.
Travler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 03:31   #10
Nolez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 49
Nolez has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Yes! Ascendancy rides again!
Nolez is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 05:01   #11
coffee-
Beoyotch
 
coffee-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 361
coffee- is just really nicecoffee- is just really nicecoffee- is just really nicecoffee- is just really nice
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Although I do not agree with using an untested formulae, if you run some calculations with this formulae you will see that it is a huge improvement over the old one. As you cannot attack value planets, nor XP planets to gain bravery. Unless my calculations are incorrect...
__________________
Peekaboo!
coffee- is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 06:08   #12
XelNaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 260
XelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to behold
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee-
Although I do not agree with using an untested formulae, if you run some calculations with this formulae you will see that it is a huge improvement over the old one. As you cannot attack value planets, nor XP planets to gain bravery. Unless my calculations are incorrect...
What calculations? You can't attack value planets, nor XP planets, to gain bravery? What can you attack, then?

Let me do some comparing for you...

BETA formula:

Quote:
XP = roids stolen* bravery factor

bravery factor = 10 * min(2, (target_value/planet_value) * survival_factor * new_bravery_factor)
survival_factor = ((intial_total_attacking_fleet_value + value_of_ships_stolen_by_attackers/3 - total_attacking_fleet_value_lost)/initial_total_attacking_fleet_value)^(1/2)

new_bravery_factor = max(1,min(2,total_initial_defence_value/(total_initial_attacking_value*3)))

So we have the bravery factor, which depends on the old bravery (value target compared to your value) _AND_ the survival factor (fleet survival and even taking zik steals into account!) _AND_ the new bravery factor (how much defense does the target have?).

It rewards for:

1. Attacking planets with higher value than yourself (the initial XP idea).
2. Not losing too much fleet while attacking (anti XP-whoring and suiciding).
3. Attacking against a lot of defense (reward that makes taking losses profitable to an extent).

All balanced out. The _PERFECT_ way in my opinion. It will benefit attacking, it will benefit attacking smart, and it will benefit not pulling at the slightest resistance. Exactly what attacks should be about. I was so happy in the BETA. So happy. I thought R17 was going to be the beginning of a golden age for PA.


But then dark clouds started to cover the sun. The trees started losing their leeves. And my English ain't that good but BAM...

New (CRAP) formula:

Quote:
XP = roids * bravery factor
bravery factor = 5*min(2,target_score/planet_score)*min(2,target_value/planet_value)
Oh nos, score in teh formula. So what? You can gain score by XP. People _WILL_ gain score by XP. But people at the top can't attack higher people than themselves most of the times anyways. So you have XP whores on top _AND_ value players on top at the start, with high scores. Now what?

The min(2,target_score/planet_score) is the same for both. XP whores probably still cap the min(2,target_value/planet_value). So they still get 2-4 times the XP of value players. And value players get EVEN less XP for their attacks. Whoohooo.

Now that really IS a change. Oh wait, it isn't. No, not really.
__________________
(XelNaga) Everybody please vote for Planetarion at http://www.mpogd.com !!!! We are second, we have to get first place back!
(SethMace) omg 2nd!!!
(SethMace) we must block with 3rd to take them down!!!11

(Marneus) also the damn thing aint always right 4 + 79 = i type 81 and it kicked me back to the login again grrr
XelNaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 06:10   #13
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee-
Although I do not agree with using an untested formulae, if you run some calculations with this formulae you will see that it is a huge improvement over the old one. As you cannot attack value planets, nor XP planets to gain bravery.
I think it is worse than last rounds formula.

Quote:
Unless my calculations are incorrect...
Using that formula someone with a high value could attack a target his identical value and identical score for a mighty 5xp/roid. This means there is no way you could realistically hope for more than 2xp/roid on a sustainable basis. Even this would be attacking targets 75% their score and value - no small challenge.

Meanwhile an XP player, with an artificially low value, can easily attack someone twice his size. If he attacks someone his own score he'll pick up a nice 10xp/roid. At worst it might drop to 8xp/roid

In score terms, if both cases capped 200 roids, the 'value player' would gain 20k score and the 'xp player' would gain 80-100k.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 06:26   #14
XelNaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 260
XelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to behold
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

It's even worse than I thought. I hope this is the April's fool.
__________________
(XelNaga) Everybody please vote for Planetarion at http://www.mpogd.com !!!! We are second, we have to get first place back!
(SethMace) omg 2nd!!!
(SethMace) we must block with 3rd to take them down!!!11

(Marneus) also the damn thing aint always right 4 + 79 = i type 81 and it kicked me back to the login again grrr
XelNaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 06:26   #15
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

some quick calcs

case a ( the xp whore ) : 50k value, 200k score , steals 200 roids from a 100k value, 250k score

bravery factor = 5*min(2,target_score/planet_score)*min(2,target_value/planet_value)
= 5 * min(2,250000/200000) * min(2, 100000/50000)
= 5 * min(2,1.25) * min(2,2)
= 5 * 1.25 * 2
= 12.5
xp gained = 200 * 12.5 = 2500


case b ( the value player, bashing a little ) : 150k value, 200k score , steals 200 roids from a 100k value, 150k score

bravery factor = 5*min(2,target_score/planet_score)*min(2,target_value/planet_value)
= 5 * min(2,150000/200000) * min(2, 100000/150000)
= 5 * min(2,0.75) * min(2,0.67)
= 5 * 0.75 * 0.67
= 2.5125
xp gained = 200 * 2.5125 = 502.5

case c ( player taking on someone his own value but higher in score (xpwhore vs xpwhore abuse potential ?) ) : 150k value, 200k score , steals 200 roids from a 150k value, 300k score

bravery factor = 5*min(2,target_score/planet_score)*min(2,target_value/planet_value)
= 5 * min(2,300000/200000) * min (2,150000,150000)
= 5 * min(2,1.5) * min(2,1)
= 5 * 1.5 * 1
= 7.5
xp = 7.5 * 200 = 1500

the same applies if they are higher in value but not in score, just rearranging parts of the same puzzle

(incidently , xp gained for a value player taking on someone his own size and score = 1000)

I cant see any scenario where a value player can beat an xp player really, other then attacking those vastly higher in score, as well as in value then themselves - and those are likely to be in short supply let alone the fact it could also be construed as xp whoring if you are small enough to enable it.
Xp whores on the other hand can continue as they did last round with the added bonus of attacking those higher in the ranks themselves will get even *more* xp.
They can still send ships to suicide , just so long as they capture roids. against a zik, destroyers in particular since you cap before you get stolen - plus terrans STILL have insane armour this round so they can still make it though insane defence alive.

This formula, quite frankly has to go.
who came up with it? a child can see this formula is no good fs ( i know coffee- didnt but we shall forgive him since hes named after my favourite beverege )
__________________
Phil^

Last edited by Phil^; 10 Apr 2006 at 07:10.
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 07:14   #16
Merlin
Wizard
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Great White North eh!
Posts: 102
Merlin is on a distinguished road
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Dunno why I am bothering to post but..... The last 2 rounds it become obvious PA crew has lost sight of what makes this a great game. COMMUNITY.
The changes to PA's basic value based formula, have not made this a better game to play, infact they have thoroughly unbalanced the game. Yes the XP whores that only play weekends sure do love it. But the XP formula is a score based add on to a value based community oriented game. Add to this the tinkering with alliances sizes which has led to the demise or near demise of some long term pa allies and some bad stats and you have to wonder who it is they listen too. 100 member allies was set a long time back when it was discovered it is an optimal number. Smaller size means along with XP and bad stats the allies have no real place in PA. I believe PA crew likes that idea. Its all about the newbs they say. WHAT newbs? or its all good we got old players (the ones that quit cause they wouldn't ever pay for PA) back this round and they love XP. Ofc they do you don't need to play much or have game skills or an alliance when you can whore your way to the top. (Ascendency) NOW even though its been pointed out to them that bolting on XP score bonus to a value based game formula can't work they personally have something to prove by trying to make it work. Never mind that pa players that PAY & PLAY don't like it. Its all about someones (one has to wonder who) opinion that this is a real improvment to the game and its drawing more players to PA. Yeah ok show me the numbers......ofc they know its not true. But they persist. Never once has Jolt or PA crew emailed the PAYING CUSTOMERS, for thier opinion of how pa is doing or what we'd like to see. And why is that? The forums is the only place they look. Never mind many of us come here only to laugh at the retarded posts. They take the loud mouth minority as the gospel and ignore all the rest of us. SO we got XPloit, smaller alliances that can't defend thier own players, and deteriorating game because PA crew really don't listen to the regular players (READ paying customers). And they really have no idea what the MAJORITY think as they've never asked them except thru the forums. I'd bet the login records show that most pa players don't come here or post either. Will they listen now? Not bloody likely. But I got asked so many times to come here and post that I finally did. So flame away.

Merlin
PA since round 1
__________________
I got roids......but I'm not going to share them with you!!

Last edited by Merlin; 10 Apr 2006 at 07:24.
Merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 07:48   #17
Roid
VGN Peon
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 6
Roid is on a distinguished road
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

I have personally sent a mail to Appoco and am currently awaiting a reply. The following was said in my mail:

Quote:
XP = roids * bravery factor
bravery factor = 5*min(2,target_score/planet_score)*min(2,target_value/planet_value)

can you please explain the above formula and how it works, NO ONE has seen this formula before and therefore it is untested. There are ALOT of people complaining about this formula saying its going to be worse than the old one. Therefore i think we are owed an explanation... If you could mail me back asap with an answer it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Roid
__________________
Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees!
Roid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 07:56   #18
Ptraci
Registered User
 
Ptraci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oban, Scotland
Posts: 84
Ptraci is a jewel in the roughPtraci is a jewel in the roughPtraci is a jewel in the rough
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Last round was among the worst I have played since I joined the game in round 3, bar none. It was almost impossible for value players to do well, in fact I gave up near the end. I'm with Phil^ and XelNaga, change back to the Beta formula ASAP.
Ptraci is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 08:06   #19
Storm3r
Furious Angel
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Romania
Posts: 5
Storm3r is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Now really guys... i agree with all of you, why take a perfectly working formula that solves all the probs from last round when t100 was all about XP whoring and change it into a cheaper copy of the ones used for last round(it looks repaired with "1 penny glue")
For me atleast and i see that for a lot of other people the survival factor idea and new bravery factor is "teh win"
Please change the formulae back as it was and let real PA addicted people to play value, play Zik and still "win" or get into t100.
Thanks
Storm3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 08:07   #20
Tyroka
Hat
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: at home
Posts: 88
Tyroka is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Putting in a quite different formula without testing it (thouroughly) ? To me this is just stupid...
__________________
RL will take us all... it's just a matter of time,
while waiting join #rock
Tyroka is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 08:37   #21
jrandin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9
jrandin is an unknown quantity at this point
No Freaking Way, they arent getting my money

I havent played since round 3, the last round being my comeback to the game. So i dont know a lot about the evolution of PA since my old days. What i DO know, is that i never remembered people with absolutely NO defensive ships, nothing infact but roiders piggybacking on other peoples fleets, suiciding constantly, and getting a score 3x larger than good, active, non-cheap players. In fact, that was the one thing that I didnt like about the game. Pretty much the only thing. And to tell you the truth, its not really even the rule itself, its the fact that they told us things would be better, led us on, then pulled the carpet up from under us. And during a change from free to pay, of all times! Well to hell with this. Ill come back when the PA staff starts actually caring about the people that are contributing to their paychecks.

Now, maybe i spoke too soon. Possibly there is some (god-only-knows), reasonable, logical reason for this last-minute revision. Perhaps, for some reason, they couldnt work it into the game, i dunno. But if this is it, and the community's outlook on the situation is correct, then this is the last straw, at least for me.

Id rather burn my money...

KhanNS
__________________
.....KHAAAAAAAANNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
jrandin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 08:58   #22
Hude
self-entitledly superior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
Hude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant future
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

First of all, the the new equation means that you can get max xp equal to last rounds xp only by attacking targets that are BOTH twice your value and twice your score. Any XP whores at top ranks WON'T get max xp. They will only get half or less than half the max xp. So far looks good?

On the other hand, players going for value that are on top ranks will get only 25% or less of max xp because their targets are always equal size or less. This means half or usually even less the xp whores will be getting.

However, xp whores at top ranks will be only getting half the xp compared to last round. As I see it, theres a chance that value players will outgrow the xp whores in the round end. Still, this formula makes it far too easy to go up in the ranks as a xp whore if you are not in the top yet.

In any case, this doesn't remove the problem that xp whoring still is a viable tactic. You can do pretty good suiciding your fleet and ignoring defence. Not exactly the way I want to see this game going.
Hude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 09:00   #23
lurchleaf
UltimateNewbie
 
lurchleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 186
lurchleaf is a splendid one to beholdlurchleaf is a splendid one to beholdlurchleaf is a splendid one to beholdlurchleaf is a splendid one to beholdlurchleaf is a splendid one to beholdlurchleaf is a splendid one to behold
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

you all have really long posts, thats nice
it means you think a lot
__________________
All of my pilots are suicidal, I just help them get there..
lurchleaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 09:05   #24
XelNaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 260
XelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to beholdXelNaga is a splendid one to behold
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
First of all, the the new equation means that you can get max xp equal to last rounds xp only by attacking targets that are BOTH twice your value and twice your score. Any XP whores at top ranks WON'T get max xp. They will only get half or less than half the max xp. So far looks good?

On the other hand, players going for value that are on top ranks will get only 25% or less of max xp because their targets are always equal size or less. This means half or usually even less the xp whores will be getting.

However, xp whores at top ranks will be only getting half the xp compared to last round. As I see it, theres a chance that value players will outgrow the xp whores in the round end. Still, this formula makes it far too easy to go up in the ranks as a xp whore if you are not in the top yet.

In any case, this doesn't remove the problem that xp whoring still is a viable tactic. You can do pretty good suiciding your fleet and ignoring defence. Not exactly the way I want to see this game going.
If you re-read Zhil's post and the one 2 posts before, you will see this is not true. It is possible for them to cap higher even when attacking slightly smaller score planets.

XP should be a viable way to play, but not for the top ranks.
__________________
(XelNaga) Everybody please vote for Planetarion at http://www.mpogd.com !!!! We are second, we have to get first place back!
(SethMace) omg 2nd!!!
(SethMace) we must block with 3rd to take them down!!!11

(Marneus) also the damn thing aint always right 4 + 79 = i type 81 and it kicked me back to the login again grrr
XelNaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 09:14   #25
Atom Smasher
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

I just cannot understand why they are changing the really good formulae that they had.... The one we played in beta... Here it "was" not possible to suicide and still get XP for doing it...

Since the zik ships have that low initiative, the only way to solve it is that they either use the beta formulae where you have to have fleet left to get XP... or you could change zik stealing initiative to 19... and then the new formulae acctually would work... as the XP hunters often did suicide their fleets at ziks...

but as i see it, i think its best to stay with the beta formulae... it is tested and it was proven to work... so why should we then change it ?

if the formulae and stats stay i might not want to play this game...

Atom Smasher
  Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 09:14   #26
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Well, there isnt much to do now is there?

PA crew has the deciding factor and has with this shown that they choose to ignore the players commenting that the XP system is to abuseable.

There is only one thing to do when you dont like a game, and that is simply not to play the game.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 09:18   #27
Buly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 386
Buly is a jewel in the roughBuly is a jewel in the roughBuly is a jewel in the roughBuly is a jewel in the rough
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Not a huge stats man myself and I haven't actually actively played since r9 or so, played r16. But my opinion is that this XP thing sucks. Annoyed me quite a bit that defending doesn't make too much of a difference in this game anymore.

But what if they'd raise the income on having roids? Making it hurt more if you loose them?
Buly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 09:57   #28
The Real Arfy
Registered User
 
The Real Arfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,081
The Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Agreed, signed, etc
__________________
Dynamic Salvage!

[16:10:34] <[lfc]stif|afk> "dont be the worst in your alliance, join CT. We have Arfy!"
The Real Arfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 10:14   #29
Hude
self-entitledly superior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
Hude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant future
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by XelNaga
If you re-read Zhil's post and the one 2 posts before, you will see this is not true. It is possible for them to cap higher even when attacking slightly smaller score planets.
Exactly which part is not true?

last round: xp=10*(target value/attacker value)
this round xp=5*(target score/attacker score)*(target value/attacker value)

In effect attacking planets with about same score -> xp is half the xp from last round.

edit: Yes, I am talking about top ranks here, and yes, xp whores on top do get more xp than value players but its less than earlier.

Last edited by Hude; 10 Apr 2006 at 10:21.
Hude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 10:52   #30
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

This will allow for insane rises in score if you start late in the round and attack xp-whores. This limits the potential score growth for xp whores through two factors, the higher score xp-whores will get so much incoming, this makes it profitable for value planets to attack xp whores remember, it'll be amusing and the higher score xp-whores will get less xp per roid. That said how anything can be introduced without testing is beyond me.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 11:17   #31
SepH
no
 
SepH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: in a chair
Posts: 329
SepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to behold
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This will allow for insane rises in score if you start late in the round and attack xp-whores. This limits the potential score growth for xp whores through two factors, the higher score xp-whores will get so much incoming, this makes it profitable for value planets to attack xp whores remember , it'll be amusing and the higher score xp-whores will get less xp per roid. That said how anything can be introduced without testing is beyond me.
how can value players attack score whores if they can't attack below their cap
SepH is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 11:22   #32
Zeke
Registered User
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 155
Zeke is on a distinguished road
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Omg. Guys, there is only one damn thing we can do: Not playing this game, till pa team comes up with a good score/xp formulae. The one used in the first beta was great imo! No really thats no joke: Guys, dont play, dont login, until they change that nonsense. Its nearly the same as last round, if it wasn't, someone from the pa team already had come and explained that its not.. Lets hope its an April Fool, although its a little late...
I wont pay this round, not with such a dumb r16 xp/score formulae rewritten copy...
Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 11:33   #33
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SepH
how can value players attack score whores if they can't attack below their cap
Obviously I was referring to the players who can attack xp whores. Mostly this will be towards the start of the round but as we all saw towards the end of last round it's at the start that xp players gain their advantage primarily.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 11:35   #34
SepH
no
 
SepH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: in a chair
Posts: 329
SepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to beholdSepH is a splendid one to behold
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

tbh i'm still in favor of removing score fully fromt eh game, but thats a differnt discussion
SepH is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 11:45   #35
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

It was my idea to change it.
I have to say, "surprised" was the least of my feelings when I read this thread.
The only issue I can see with it is that it doesn't penalise stupid xp whores (i.e. the ones that just let all their ships die). I'm sure adding that factor on would have people dancing in the streets in joy.
Yes, those who play for XP get more XP than those who play for value. I can't work out what's quite wrong with that though?
They're playing for XP. They're MEANT TO.

Take your XP whore who's playing for a top spot. What used to happen was that they'd hit highish value planets with lots of asteroids. However, now at best they'd get half the XP from those planets, as the two planets score would be around the same.
The higher in the rankings you get, the less XP you get for attacking. If anything, this does make Ziks slightly stronger at the top, but Ziks always come strong at the end of the round. In general it does mean that value is more important. I thought that was what everyone was up in arms about in the first place. Apparently not
It does allow smaller, less active planets who AREN'T playing at the top to play for XP as before to some extent, but as soon as your score goes up, playing for XP gets less viable.
Quite a few of the top XP planets occasionally crashed their fleet but generally pulled off smart attacks on rather larger value planets and took "normal" losses. Resources can easily go to the galaxy fund.
I'm not sure if everyone realises this?
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 11:47   #36
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SepH
tbh i'm still in favor of removing score fully fromt eh game, but thats a differnt discussion
That'd actually unbalance it at the moment. Stats would have to be completely different, and we'd almost certainly have to limit stealing again.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 11:54   #37
Paisley
The brother of Spammer
 
Paisley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
Paisley is a glorious beacon of lightPaisley is a glorious beacon of lightPaisley is a glorious beacon of lightPaisley is a glorious beacon of lightPaisley is a glorious beacon of lightPaisley is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Score
Score is derived from the XP field, and also the value field.

Score = xp*50 + value


would it be a good idea to alter the score to...

Score = xp*35 + value to make xp less appealing or some similar reduction?
Paisley is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:04   #38
robban1
Registered User
 
robban1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 846
robban1 is infamous around these partsrobban1 is infamous around these partsrobban1 is infamous around these partsrobban1 is infamous around these partsrobban1 is infamous around these partsrobban1 is infamous around these parts
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
I'm not sure if everyone realises this?

im kinda suprised that you havent realised what the concept of xp whores do to the dynamics of the gameplay of the game
robban1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:19   #39
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
It was my idea to change it.
I have to say, "surprised" was the least of my feelings when I read this thread.
The only issue I can see with it is that it doesn't penalise stupid xp whores (i.e. the ones that just let all their ships die). I'm sure adding that factor on would have people dancing in the streets in joy.
Yes, those who play for XP get more XP than those who play for value. I can't work out what's quite wrong with that though?
They're playing for XP. They're MEANT TO.

Take your XP whore who's playing for a top spot. What used to happen was that they'd hit highish value planets with lots of asteroids. However, now at best they'd get half the XP from those planets, as the two planets score would be around the same.
The higher in the rankings you get, the less XP you get for attacking. If anything, this does make Ziks slightly stronger at the top, but Ziks always come strong at the end of the round. In general it does mean that value is more important. I thought that was what everyone was up in arms about in the first place. Apparently not
It does allow smaller, less active planets who AREN'T playing at the top to play for XP as before to some extent, but as soon as your score goes up, playing for XP gets less viable.
Quite a few of the top XP planets occasionally crashed their fleet but generally pulled off smart attacks on rather larger value planets and took "normal" losses. Resources can easily go to the galaxy fund.
I'm not sure if everyone realises this?
This being the case, you condemn this round to become another farce like last round.
I , for one have no intention whatsoever in playing in such a round - and as such request my credit be replaced and account deleted.
Anyone else who is less then satisfied with the situation is of course, welcome to request the same
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:21   #40
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
This being the case, you condemn this round to become another farce like last round.
Why?
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:34   #41
voodoo
a pain
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: .ro
Posts: 260
voodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

ok.the formula did change a bit, and appoco might not be totally wrong.
it does make it harder for xp whores to crawl into t10, but it doesnt stop them from hovering in the lower regions of t100.
this being said, what i dont get is why change it now?tbfh, u might as well start the round with a formula, and change it midround.
no beta testing = bad, mkay?
__________________
needles and pins
voodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:38   #42
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
This being the case, you condemn this round to become another farce like last round.
I , for one have no intention whatsoever in playing in such a round - and as such request my credit be replaced and account deleted.
Anyone else who is less then satisfied with the situation is of course, welcome to request the same

I support this and request that my account will be deleted and my credit replaced please.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:43   #43
MegaNova
m33p
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 4th floor
Posts: 138
MegaNova is a jewel in the roughMegaNova is a jewel in the roughMegaNova is a jewel in the roughMegaNova is a jewel in the rough
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

pdmaster had 6k roids last round and thus got 500k value a day from it.
Now lets look at the xp whores:
Last round i was on avg 500k value 6mil score at the end and attacked 1mil value xans who had an avg of 800 roids and a score around 2-3mil
bravery factor = 5*min(2,target_score/planet_score)*min(2,target_value/planet_value)
= 5 * min(2,3000/6000) * min (2,1000/500)
= 5 * min(2,0.5) * min(2,2)
= 5 * 0.5 * 2
= 5
xp = 5 * 200 = 1000
Score = 1000*50 = 50000
So on a good day with 3 attacks getting through ill be getting 150k score.
While this used to be 600*20*60=720k score
Even if i change the targetting to same score planets it would only be 300k score a day.

All in all, i think the new xp formulla looks pretty decent.
__________________
Trying is the first step to failiure.
MegaNova is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:48   #44
Banned
Banned
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
Banned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Anyone who thinks this formula 'favors' XP players is wrong. The reasons MegaNova outlined above should be sufficient to show this.
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:50   #45
wakey
Hamster
 
wakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
wakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

I think Appoco's reasoning is pretty sound. While the likes of XelNaga may totally frown upon XP (as he seems to think successful attacks on larger planets takes no skill while bashing easy targets while hiding behind your alliance takes alot of skill), it should be a method open to people to win. Having multiple ways to challenge for the top spot makes things more diverse which makes the game more fun. Now as Appoc explains it the forumulas aim is to make XP a playable method but to make it increasingly harder to play at the top for XP (Just like Value becomes harder to play the longer things go on ). And as Appoc says ofc XP should be easier to get for those playing the XP route, they are playing for XP not value and it shouldnt be even. It would be like saying that to offset the high value people, the low value peoples ships and roids should be made worth more.

Now I'm not saying I think this forumula actually acheives the Appocs aims, infact like most people I think it needs tested first (Delay the start and do a proper test) but atleast his aims are in the right direction as it tries to find a balance rather than trying to pander to making it so value is the only option to play by
__________________
Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
Co-founder of [F-Crew]
The Farnborough Crew
Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew
wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:52   #46
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

The point of the formula and the stats in the combination in planetarion should not be to prevent XP whoring as a valid way of winning, but to make it difficult.

To rule out XP as a way of playing is ruling out playing an intelligent, low activity game. To win, this formula looks as if it demands a whole new aspect of planet management on the XP strategy, as one has to sit down and think when XP will stop being profitable and deciding what exactly is required to 'kick' further up the ranking if you want to be mega successful.

If this formula eliminates suicide XP whoring then i'd say it's quite successful. If it forces XP players to judge when to change tack midway and to have to graft for a time to really push up the ranking, then it's more or less the ideal situation.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:55   #47
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by idimmu
I spent most of last round hovering around the top 10 using that 'stupid' stratagy :crazyxmas:
Yes. Sorry, I meant it doesn't penalise you MORE. It penalises all those who play for XP and want to achieve a high ranking, not just those who lose all their ships. It doesn't have loopholes about attacking smaller planets with lots of defence to get artifically high XP, or coming up with neat ways to steal ships for nothing to offset hitting smaller planets.
About the worst I can say is that people can get to a fair rank by attacking and then get mass donated to (only they'd have to be really careful as unfortunately I limited the alliance fund quite a lot, so it'd have to be a galaxy action, I guess), and then playing for value from there.

Are you prepared to recalculate everything like MegaNova?

He seems to be the only one who's actually compared it to last round and is prepared to come forward and speak about it.
Everyone else seems to be leaping on the bandwagon. A few people have said it sucks and suddenly everyone is up in arms.
I admit that it hasn't been tested, but I couldn't quite see the need. Testing is as much to allow people to get used to the idea and see how they react as to see if it has any flaws. This is the only problem I see - some people overreacting to a new formula that has less loopholes because they didn't get a chance to do what they could with a calculator.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:55   #48
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
If this formula eliminates suicide XP whoring then i'd say it's quite successful. If it forces XP players to judge when to change tack midway and to have to graft for a time to really push up the ranking, then it's more or less the ideal situation.
it doesnt. It leaves it pretty much the same as last round in terms of suicide or not. ( and again stats with terran as insanely armoured )
the beta one did though , the formula which was accepted as being "pretty good" by most

needless to say that simply slapping a new formula in without any kind of testing whatsoever is irresponsible.
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:55   #49
voodoo
a pain
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: .ro
Posts: 260
voodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

i dont think its that bad a formula.i think its wrong to put it as deffinitive instead of alternative.not one week before round starts.not without testing.
__________________
needles and pins
voodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Apr 2006, 12:56   #50
The Real Arfy
Registered User
 
The Real Arfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,081
The Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Oh come on...XP formula..

Its not the fact that the new formula sucks or anything, its that there was no [public] resistance to it and everything seemed great. There was also no need to change it. There has also not been any proper testing to prove this formula making anything better.

Nobody was consulted about it, and with one week to go until tickstart, a major part of the game has been changed.

As a side note, the fact that this was only visible* to forum readers was completely stupid.

* I can't believe every player of the game reads the announcements, and this wasn't put on the MOTD
__________________
Dynamic Salvage!

[16:10:34] <[lfc]stif|afk> "dont be the worst in your alliance, join CT. We have Arfy!"
The Real Arfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018