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Unread 6 May 2014, 18:39   #301
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
Main difference being in the fact that Spore has not been FC'd a whole lot where Vikings loses anywhere between 2-5 attackfleets a day on FC's alone.
We have had some, plus we have foiled a fair few. We are being VERY careful and looking out for them a lot, and when there is a possibility for one, we are making sure we put plans in place to deal with it. Plus it is hard to FC us as we are hardly attacking, which means we are also not gaining XP.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 18:41   #302
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
Is there any point tbh? We are far from as good as we once were, and we know it
I think we have something like 20 players left playing for us that also played for us during our best round
Is this very diffrent in other former top allies?
Its obvious that u shouldve gone for CR, stop making excuses
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Unread 6 May 2014, 18:44   #303
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Is this very diffrent in other former top allies?
Its obvious that u shouldve gone for CR, stop making excuses
With CR they would most likely have struggled just as much. Their activity isn't what it used to be and their political power is far from what it used to be. Yet it still wouldn't surprise me if they win again next round. But we'll see about that when next round comes.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 18:47   #304
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Anyone want to analyse ultores?
This round was very different between Ult and Spore. Previous rounds, Spore has been dragged into wars with Ult when there has been a need to take them down, or we have ended up at war when Ult decided it was time to try and bring Spore down, along with all the support they always manage to bring along.

Because it had always gone this way before, we decided to go for a different approach this time and we went and targeted Ult ourselves out of the blue early in the round. After several rounds of having to fight wars of attrition against Ult where they had the upper hand due to support or value, we decided that this round we would fight them on our terms; we hit them when they weren't expecting it, before they had any support in place and before they were ready for a war; it was the first time Spore battled Ult from the dominant position. From our perspective, they never seemed to recover from this, the battle was easier and more one-sided than we had expected and they never quite seemed to get it back together.

Ultimately, Ult's perceived poor showing this round is not purely down to any lack of quality, it's also because Spore made a strategic decision to hit them early at a time that we perceived them to be at their most vulnerable. We didn't expect it to be as effective as it was though.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 18:52   #305
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Re: R56 development thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Is this very diffrent in other former top allies?
Its obvious that u shouldve gone for CR, stop making excuses
Excuses? I said we weren't good enough, how is that an excuse? :/
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Unread 6 May 2014, 18:56   #306
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
Excuses? I said we weren't good enough, how is that an excuse? :/
As a HC I would be asking how can I improve my recruitment strategy for next round
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Unread 6 May 2014, 19:01   #307
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Paisley
As a HC I would be asking how can I improve my recruitment strategy for next round
Good thing I am the hc and not you then
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Unread 6 May 2014, 19:05   #308
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
Excuses? I said we weren't good enough, how is that an excuse? :/
Its not down to just the lack of quality members.
As Bashar said, you were blocked down before being able to make a stand.
And if you had gone for CR im sure the round wouldve been more open.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 19:06   #309
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
As a HC I would be asking how can I improve my recruitment strategy for next round
How are FAnG gonna improve our recruitment? Seeing a lot of members might be leaving for TheFallen agsin
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Unread 6 May 2014, 19:09   #310
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Re: R56 development thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Its not down to just the lack of quality members.
As Bashar said, you were blocked down before being able to make a stand.
And if you had gone for CR im sure the round wouldve been more open.
of course it's not only down to quality, but that's the main reason, probably 70% of it. The lack of quality and activity this round was quite amazing
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Unread 6 May 2014, 19:15   #311
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
of course it's not only down to quality, but that's the main reason, probably 70% of it. The lack of quality and activity this round was quite amazing
Spore has been a top alliance the last two rounds, without too much activity, what are Ult doing wrong?
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Unread 6 May 2014, 19:17   #312
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Re: R56 development thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Spore has been a top alliance the last two rounds, without too much activity, what are Ult doing wrong?
Not being active enough?
Even spore from last round was more active than ult this round
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Unread 6 May 2014, 21:04   #313
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
With CR they would most likely have struggled just as much. Their activity isn't what it used to be and their political power is far from what it used to be. Yet it still wouldn't surprise me if they win again next round. But we'll see about that when next round comes.
from spores point of veiw i hope they let ultores be alone, and king make em.

crush CT,vikings and hr only for a round just to payback ;-)

and se if anyone likes to fight ultores when spore wont.

alest that what i hope happen, just ruin vik/ct/hr chances of a good spot, go early into SK, and have a fun round ;-)
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Unread 6 May 2014, 21:28   #314
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Re: R56 development thread.

Sounds like your hoping for a interesting and fun round
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Unread 6 May 2014, 21:56   #315
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
What he means is that your strat choice wasn't necessarily better than vikings, but due to you being nap'd/allied to the alliances not going fi/co, you could focus everything on anti fi/co, meaning you could easily hold your ground vs the alliances going for that setup
Isnt that the point of war? Pick your battles at the right times?

Fact is, no other alliance has battled ult 1 v 1 like spore did and come out so overwhelmingly on top. I don't think that was simply down to fleet strat but our build orders certainly had lots to do with it.
We also had specific attacking and defensive targets and it worked for us.

Spore probably had more main wars than most this round.

The difference is, we play based on strategy rather than emotion. For instance, ct always hit ult for some reason. Vikings had a hard on for fang/faceless all round. Most alliances base their game play on emotions.

Spore HC made decisions based on strategy, they started wars when they were best placed to win them and they end them at the best time for Spore.

I see a lot of crap spoken here talking about blocks. Fact is, Spore has been at the forefront of avoiding blocks since we started. We do all we can to avoid them. But when others block, we have no option but to fight fire with fire.
XP actually makes blocks worse. People can sit back and avoid hitting someone (take spore for this round), with the expectation that near the end everyone will hit the fat #1 and make massive gains in xp. Its just bashing and it makes people quit
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Unread 6 May 2014, 22:07   #316
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I see a lot of crap spoken here talking about blocks. Fact is, Spore has been at the forefront of avoiding blocks since we started. We do all we can to avoid them. But when others block, we have no option but to fight fire with fire.
LOL, just ****ing LOL.

Avoiding a block by napping the universe, what a victory! blocking is part of the game, always has been, always will be. It used to be that blocks were more balanced but with the low number of active alliances that balance fell towards gangrapes unfortunately. Claiming you were at the forefront to avoid blocks, yet the first block attacks between Spore and Vikings were sent by Spore.

Also, claiming to avoid blocking after having a pre-round agreement with Vikings, how can you justify that?
Also, claiming to avoid blocking after begging Vikings to please hit an Ult fort the first night you ptargetted Ultores.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 22:11   #317
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Re: R56 development thread.

Simply because our strategy was to make sure we hit our enemies, 1 v 1, at a time of our choosing, in order to win the game. It is better for Spore to avoid blocks, because we believe 1 v 1 we can beat anyone.

Didn't YOUR alliance choose to bash as far down the ranks as possible?

How is that working out for you?

Spore had a nap with you, we didn't attack jointly with you until we were being hit by more alliances with much more value. You however, attack constantly with HR and were the first to run to block with CT/ULT/APP to hit us.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 22:12   #318
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
LOL, just ****ing LOL.

Avoiding a block by napping the universe, what a victory! blocking is part of the game, always has been, always will be. It used to be that blocks were more balanced but with the low number of active alliances that balance fell towards gangrapes unfortunately. Claiming you were at the forefront to avoid blocks, yet the first block attacks between Spore and Vikings were sent by Spore.

Also, claiming to avoid blocking after having a pre-round agreement with another alliance... how can you justify that?
Obvious they wont try to justify the preround block.
Trying to explain it will just make them look stupid.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 22:28   #319
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Unhappy Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by aif View Post
from spores point of veiw i hope they let ultores be alone, and king make em.

crush CT,vikings and hr only for a round just to payback ;-)

and se if anyone likes to fight ultores when spore wont.

alest that what i hope happen, just ruin vik/ct/hr chances of a good spot, go early into SK, and have a fun round ;-)
I hope Spore just goes for another round win tbh, without doubt Spore will be the strongest ally out there next round. Not going for the win when you are the strongest ally would be the ultimate travesty.

As for wanting to ruin allies like HR, that's just sad bro. They are one of the most respectable allies out there who put a lot of time in actually maintaining their community. Spore hit their forts at a time when Spore had at least 1.5 times the value HR had. You can't really blame them for linking up with others in order to get back at spore can you?

As for Vikings, come hit us all you want tbh, it will only make us feel special
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Unread 6 May 2014, 22:49   #320
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Simply because our strategy was to make sure we hit our enemies, 1 v 1, at a time of our choosing, in order to win the game. It is better for Spore to avoid blocks, because we believe 1 v 1 we can beat anyone.

Didn't YOUR alliance choose to bash as far down the ranks as possible?

How is that working out for you?

Spore had a nap with you, we didn't attack jointly with you until we were being hit by more alliances with much more value. You however, attack constantly with HR and were the first to run to block with CT/ULT/APP to hit us.
Like i said, you asked us to hit an Ult fort the very first night you ptargetted Ult.
How can we have constantly hit with HR when HR hit you while we were napped with you? How can we have constantly hit with HR when we were paying back a visit to FAnG who have been napped with HR since pt200?
You do realise the only reason HR hit you with the block was because you hit 2 HR forts (unprovoked as HR were ptargetting Faceless at the time) in the week before that?

My alliance was galraiding for a long time. In fact we were fairly randomly galraiding until Faceless organised a block on us. It wasn't until that time that we really started to hit FAnG. Faceless organised a block on us because we hit 2 of their forts 2 nights in a row. This was a retalliation for Faceless constantly hitting Viking forts in the nights prior to that.
Hitting FAnG was a direct retalliation for them joining the block that was setup by Faceless. Vikings tried to de-escalate the situation with FAnG and Faceless countless of times but they insisted on dealing the last blow the whole time, which is a bit weird considering they were in a very weak spot against us the whole time. As such all de-escalation attempts on our end failed.

Also, we didn't run to CT/Ult/App block. We made a deal with Ult when they were hitting us, much like you tried to make a deal with CT at the same time. In fact, had you not tried to make a deal with CT behind our backs (and lied about it the first time we asked if you did) we would most likely not have agreed with said deal. And had SnowSeal not tried to bully one of our members into recalling a deffleet we most likely wouldn't even have hit Spore full on from that time.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 23:01   #321
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post

Also, we didn't run to CT/Ult/App block. We made a deal with Ult when they were hitting us, much like you tried to make a deal with CT at the same time. In fact, had you not tried to make a deal with CT behind our backs (and lied about it the first time we asked if you did) we would most likely not have agreed with said deal.

Maybe I missed something then because from my point of view that is the biggest load of bullsh*t I have read on here for a long time.

Vikings asked spore to continue an agreement with CT to keep the peace so you could carry on roiding fang/fl.
Spore refused. Because we refused to continue an agreement with CT, CT joined with Ult to hit spore. You napped Ult and joined them at the first possible opportunity.

I should point out now, I/Spore Hc knew at least 48 hours in advance BEFORE you broke the nap agreement ingame. We were given the exact timings of when this would happen. We were given the exact date of when you would drop the agreement and when you would start attacking us. We were given all that from the block you were joining.
So you may sit here and try and pretend otherwise, but the fact is, you tried to screw spore at the same time as you were joining a block that was screwing you.
It is a wonder your members have any faith in your HC at all tbh, when instead of playing for a win you spent the time trying to get an easy ride and fking that up too.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 23:21   #322
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Maybe I missed something then because from my point of view that is the biggest load of bullsh*t I have read on here for a long time.

Vikings asked spore to continue an agreement with CT to keep the peace so you could carry on roiding fang/fl.
Spore refused. Because we refused to continue an agreement with CT, CT joined with Ult to hit spore. You napped Ult and joined them at the first possible opportunity.

I should point out now, I/Spore Hc knew at least 48 hours in advance BEFORE you broke the nap agreement ingame. We were given the exact timings of when this would happen. We were given the exact date of when you would drop the agreement and when you would start attacking us. We were given all that from the block you were joining.
So you may sit here and try and pretend otherwise, but the fact is, you tried to screw spore at the same time as you were joining a block that was screwing you.
It is a wonder your members have any faith in your HC at all tbh, when instead of playing for a win you spent the time trying to get an easy ride and fking that up too.
I very much doubt any Vikings HC asked you to continue your deal with CT, because we weren't even aware CT asked you for a continuence on said deal until 2 days after you didn't continue it (so much for open politics between us huh?).

I won't pretend you didn't have a spy in ultores command relaying you whatever information you wanted. I won't pretend that we didn't ask what it would take for us to come to an agreement with Ult 2 days before actually agreeing to anything. But claiming you had all the exact times is the biggest bullshit ever, because we didn't agree with Ultores until 10 minutes before we told Spore we were cancelling our agreement. And while our agreement included us cancelling our agreement with Spore, and us hitting Spore to some extend. There was absolutely no HC in Vikings that intended to hit Spore full on at that time.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 23:35   #323
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I think it was quite obvious when the strat was being discussed that the stats were awful.
What ever you would go for(FI/CO OR FR/DE) your allie could be raped by an smaller hostile alliance more or less.
Capital hulls were never an option for Spore.
If CT/Viks would have gone for Spore instead of FAnG the roidloss wouldve been very high.
How ever Spore did what they had to, kept away from viks/ct
So not being able to cover everything easy makes stats crap?? I think most people would say that was the best thing about these stats, the fact there was always a hole. Please remember that politics made this round shit, not Isil's stat set.

All I can gather from this is that you and your friends can't read stats. There was plenty of great strats to play this round, cr/bs was as good as fi/co, fr was great en masse, de was lovely for fort play, spore winning with fi/co was again political, plenty including yours failed with this strat.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 23:43   #324
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
So not being able to cover everything easy makes stats crap?? I think most people would say that was the best thing about these stats, the fact there was always a hole. Please remember that politics made this round shit, not Isil's stat set.

All I can gather from this is that you and your friends can't read stats. There was plenty of great strats to play this round, cr/bs was as good as fi/co, fr was great en masse, de was lovely for fort play, spore winning with fi/co was again political, plenty including yours failed with this strat.
Me and my friends?
Aint we in the same tag?
These stats have no holes :/
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Unread 6 May 2014, 23:45   #325
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
I very much doubt any Vikings HC asked you to continue your deal with CT, because we weren't even aware CT asked you for a continuence on said deal until 2 days after you didn't continue it (so much for open politics between us huh?).

I won't pretend you didn't have a spy in ultores command relaying you whatever information you wanted. I won't pretend that we didn't ask what it would take for us to come to an agreement with Ult 2 days before actually agreeing to anything. But claiming you had all the exact times is the biggest bullshit ever, because we didn't agree with Ultores until 10 minutes before we told Spore we were cancelling our agreement. And while our agreement included us cancelling our agreement with Spore, and us hitting Spore to some extend. There was absolutely no HC in Vikings that intended to hit Spore full on at that time.
i can confirm that spore had intel about you joining ct/ult 2 days be4 you broke the nap, from 2 diffrent sources.

from what you are saying now, they both got the timeing and place with in a few hours +- ;-), if you just desided that 10 min be4, dam my spy is just L337 ;-) and can read the future !
;-)


anyway reson why i like spore to go after HR next round is basicly becouse they have been a constant hostile vrs spore the last 2 (maybe 3 rounds ?)
with out us realy targeting them much.

if you like influence i might (if i even bother to), iam going to release logs and times from spore HC channel of me relaying the intel about you guys planning to backstab spore after the round if the others let me do so ofc ;-).

iam not going to play next round but i hope spore goes after vikings/hr and CT just to get some payback and force others to take action vrs ultores, if spore keep on hiting ultores we will soon become forced to fight each round.
just becouse of history. id say break it up play for galaxy and let members play for rank for ones, and care less about allaince policts and rater help spore galaxys out.
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Unread 6 May 2014, 23:57   #326
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by aif View Post
i can confirm that spore had intel about you joining ct/ult 2 days be4 you broke the nap, from 2 diffrent sources.

from what you are saying now, they both got the timeing and place with in a few hours +- ;-), if you just desided that 10 min be4, dam my spy is just L337 ;-) and can read the future !
;-)

if you like influence i might (if i even bother to), iam going to release logs and times from spore HC channel of me relaying the intel about you guys planning to backstab spore after the round if the others let me do so ofc ;-).
And if you want I can release the logs from our HC channel where we are doing the vote, and the logs of the channel where we had our final talks with Ultores. Like i said there had been talks before, in the first talks Ult required us to do a full backstab instantaniously which we denied, as we said we had to honour our 48h cooldown.

P.S. I am not surprised spies on Ultores/CT side of things could make a very accurate estimate of the timing, as effectively Ultores controlled the timing of our deal. After all Ultores controlled the timing of the deal we made with them as they had the strongest hand. Vikings were negotiating from a very weak point at the time.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:06   #327
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Me and my friends?
Aint we in the same tag?
These stats have no holes :/
I wasn't in your tag when you picked strat, when I did join your tag I spent over a week with mikee telling you how retarded your ship build ideas were.

You have just said in your last post before this one that an alliance could be raped by a smaller hostile, if this isn't a hole then what is???
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:15   #328
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by aif View Post
alest that what i hope happen, just ruin vik/ct/hr chances of a good spot, go early into SK, and have a fun round ;-)
Wow, you're starting to get cocky just because you dominated this round. It may not mean much, but yours (and others within Spore) cockiness has reduced my overall opinion of Spore. Zhil worked hard to get where Spore is now, and now your members are going over-the-top-cocky which I think will backfire on Spore next round.

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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:20   #329
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
I very much doubt any Vikings HC asked you to continue your deal with CT, because we weren't even aware CT asked you for a continuence on said deal until 2 days after you didn't continue it (so much for open politics between us huh?).
This is incorrect. I spoke to both Clouds and RexDrax about our deal with CT and its future. You knew full well that Insomnia asked us to not renew it as they asked you at the same time for help verses FAnG.

I actually told Clouds how I thought things would happen before my own HC had even voted on it.

If me talking openly to member of Vikings HC is not "open politics" then I don't know what is.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:24   #330
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I wasn't in your tag when you picked strat, when I did join your tag I spent over a week with mikee telling you how retarded your ship build ideas were.

You have just said in your last post before this one that an alliance could be raped by a smaller hostile, if this isn't a hole then what is???
My ship strat idea for FAnG was to rush CR/BS?
You obvious have realy little knowledge about how this game wirks tbh, discussing stats with you would be a waste of time in most rounds.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:27   #331
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
And if you want I can release the logs from our HC channel where we are doing the vote, and the logs of the channel where we had our final talks with Ultores. Like i said there had been talks before, in the first talks Ult required us to do a full backstab instantaniously which we denied, as we said we had to honour our 48h cooldown.
1. Our logs would (which I am happy for aif to release at the end of the round) will also show that we noticed a significant change in the behaviour of Vikings HC towards us from 2 days before, around the same time the intel was coming in. Even if you "voted" on it at a later time, you were planning and preparing and had the expectation of it, to say anything else would be completely dishonest.

2. What 48hr cooldown? The agreement was that it lasted all round and there was no cooldown built in because we agreed that it would not be cancelled and that there was no need to build a cooldown in because the only time we would cancel was by mutual consent. You may want to check your logs before you start arguing against that as it is something that we can prove. You went back on your word and you acted against the agreement that we had and betrayed us for no reason other than jealousy that we were doing better than you. You are dishonest, untrustworthy and have shown your true colours.

3. How the hell could Vik be in a very weak position? You were the #2 alliance by a clear margin and you had the #1 alliance as a close ally and willing to help any time you need it. For some bizarre reason you chose to go from a position of huge strength to a position of weakness. It made no sense at the time and now it makes even less.

Don't try to pin this on anyone else, or suggest you were attempting any noble deed, or that you were forced into it by any perceived insult. The simple fact is that you acted with a complete and utter lack of integrity and your promises can never again be trusted.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:33   #332
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
This is incorrect. I spoke to both Clouds and RexDrax about our deal with CT and its future. You knew full well that Insomnia asked us to not renew it as they asked you at the same time for help verses FAnG.

I actually told Clouds how I thought things would happen before my own HC had even voted on it.

If me talking openly to member of Vikings HC is not "open politics" then I don't know what is.
While this maybe true, your command went from discussing about making a deal with CT (with us) to formally offering CT a deal behind our backs.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:40   #333
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by aif View Post
if you like influence i might (if i even bother to), iam going to release logs and times from spore HC channel of me relaying the intel about you guys planning to backstab spore after the round if the others let me do so ofc ;-).
I would just like to clarify that although it maybe true that we were in talks with Ultores two days before we ended the agreement with Spore, this DOES NOT mean that we had made said agreement with them nor had we decided internally if this was the road we wanted to go down. So yes your intel was inaccurate.

Any fool can exaggerate things, so unless you have logs directly from a Vikings HC, your argument is void.

Our decision was made final when we learned that Forest had offered CT a formal deal behind our backs.

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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:41   #334
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
While this maybe true, your command went from discussing about making a deal with CT (with us) to formally offering CT a deal behind our backs.
Which deal would you refer too?

We are talking about the lapse of the renewel agreement, nothing else.

If you mean re when Ult were hitting Vikings, we simply opened our door to CT and invited discussions - for the primary reason of ending hostilities with CT so that Spore could free up its FR more.

There was no "behind your back". I hardly see how Vikings would be upset by a simple discussion as it would have focussed us both solely on Ultores AND you guys already had a deal till EOR for CT.

No actual deal was ever offered between us. Just that we were willing to talk.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:49   #335
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Re: R56 development thread.

I dont realy see what it is to argue about.
For the last two rounds prior to this round one would maybe say that viks/spore was the best ones overall.
Why would you make a preround deal to kill off the round early on?
None of you have done anything honourable to this game this round, if we can look at it at this point, why argue over who did what right/wrong?
Its clear to everyone that the Viks/Spore block won by walkover, what ever happend AFTER the round was over is irrelivant.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 00:56   #336
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Re: R56 development thread.

Butch, I am afraid that, coming from someone who regularly says that he just likes to stir up and argue on AD, saying "I don't really see what there is to argue about" is just ridiculous
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Unread 7 May 2014, 01:02   #337
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Butch, I am afraid that, coming from someone who regularly says that he just likes to stir up and argue on AD, saying "I don't really see what there is to argue about" is just ridiculous
What are you trying to justify?
Now im reading that #1 and #2 was allready NAPed to the end of the round, and then both either had deals with #3, or had offered a deal.
Then apparently #2 wanted deals with #4, as being NAPed to #1 and #3 clearly didnt cut it for them.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 01:09   #338
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
What are you trying to justify?
Now im reading that #1 and #2 was allready NAPed to the end of the round, and then both either had deals with #3, or had offered a deal.
Then apparently #2 wanted deals with #4, as being NAPed to #1 and #3 clearly didnt cut it for them.
This is like one of those tricky tongue twisters.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 01:13   #339
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Bashar View Post
1. Our logs would (which I am happy for aif to release at the end of the round) will also show that we noticed a significant change in the behaviour of Vikings HC towards us from 2 days before, around the same time the intel was coming in. Even if you "voted" on it at a later time, you were planning and preparing and had the expectation of it, to say anything else would be completely dishonest.

2. What 48hr cooldown? The agreement was that it lasted all round and there was no cooldown built in because we agreed that it would not be cancelled and that there was no need to build a cooldown in because the only time we would cancel was by mutual consent. You may want to check your logs before you start arguing against that as it is something that we can prove. You went back on your word and you acted against the agreement that we had and betrayed us for no reason other than jealousy that we were doing better than you. You are dishonest, untrustworthy and have shown your true colours.

3. How the hell could Vik be in a very weak position? You were the #2 alliance by a clear margin and you had the #1 alliance as a close ally and willing to help any time you need it. For some bizarre reason you chose to go from a position of huge strength to a position of weakness. It made no sense at the time and now it makes even less.

Don't try to pin this on anyone else, or suggest you were attempting any noble deed, or that you were forced into it by any perceived insult. The simple fact is that you acted with a complete and utter lack of integrity and your promises can never again be trusted.
1. The behaviour of our HC's started to change 5-6 days before we cancelled our deal with you. Quite simply because we felt conned into making a deal with FAnG/Faceless so that we could ALL go after Ultores. That feeling didn't improve when FAnG and Faceless decided to focus on Vikings other allies instead of Ultores. What didn't help either was the fact that Spore didn't seem to be doing any work to coordinate attacks on Ultores at all, and left that for us to handle. So yeah, our behaviour did change,, and Spore did **** all to keep us on your side. Even when I asked for a favor in your help to control FAnG into not hitting Insomnia you couldn't deliver. For me personally that was the last straw after a whole lot of other issues between us. So yeah, we had the expectation things were ending between Spore and us, and yeah, as any half decent command team would, we were preparing for the possibility of us breaking up. Were we planning on it? DEFINITELY NOT, as we knew damn well it would not give us anything good either. I personally have absolutely no regrets over breaking up with you tho, Vikings and Spore just weren't meant to be.

2. Initially the agreement had no break-up clause at all. When I wanted to add this in you indeed countered with a 'mutual consent' clause which would trigger a 48h cooldown. Like you rightfully noticed our behaviour started to change and we were very vocal about not being happy with the way things were being handled. Until the very last afternoon Spore did not show any interest in handling things between us differently at all. As such, 'mutual consent' became a very empty word for us, as you could simply not agree to anything, just like you had ignored all our obvious unhappiness. So when we finally did break up we made it very clear we would still honour the 48h cooldown. We went back on our word because clearly things weren't working out between us. Saying we broke up out of jealousy just shows how little you actually paid attention to us, considering we have been quite vocal that winning isn't everything for us, nor is a 2nd rank, a top 10 gal, or a couple of top 100 planets. I have stated time and again Spore are the rightful winners of this round and no-one else would have deserved the win. Especially not Vikings as we just weren't good enough this round, not just within our command, but throughout our entire ranks this has definitely not been our best round, and even in our best round we would never stand a chance against this Spore.

3. Vikings were in a weak position because other than Spore we literally had no allies left. The agreements we had with other allies were extremely hollow and limited. And our 'alliance' with Spore proved to be more hollow every night. Vikings were bleeding roids and value vs inferior incs and we basicly had no activity left in us. At the time, _IF_ Vikings wanted to go for #1 we could not suffer one more night of the incs we were getting at the time.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 01:33   #340
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Re: R56 development thread.

What are you playing for if not ranks Influensa?
Seems to me once again you guys are trying to ruin this game with wank*r preround block deals...
Maybe Ultores arnt so delusional when they claim everyone is plotting against them every time they get incs.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 01:45   #341
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I dont realy see what it is to argue about.
For the last two rounds prior to this round one would maybe say that viks/spore was the best ones overall.
Why would you make a preround deal to kill off the round early on?
None of you have done anything honourable to this game this round, if we can look at it at this point, why argue over who did what right/wrong?
Its clear to everyone that the Viks/Spore block won by walkover, what ever happend AFTER the round was over is irrelivant.
As for Vikings: When we made the deal we were looking at a membercount close to where we ended last round. This meant that Vikings would not really be a contender for the round and we would go into it much like we went into last round. While last round we did well defensively we had a big struggle politically, mainly because we trusted in some we shouldn't have trusted in and were let down by others. This meant that for this round the command team wanted to at least have a strong political partner and have very little dealings with other allies. I don't know who made the initial contact, could have been Clouds or Spore. What i do know is that our interests seemed to align with Spore at the time, and as such we were interested in a deal with Spore. From our end the intention never was to kill off the round, but during the round our political situation was very uncertain at times as both FAnG and Faceless were hard to deal with politically for various reasons. That coupled with the very restrictive nature of 'mutual consent' made it really hard for us to break away from Spore. And if it weren't for a number of really harsh incidents between Spore and us I very much doubt we would in fact have broken with them at all.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 01:54   #342
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
As for Vikings: When we made the deal we were looking at a membercount close to where we ended last round. This meant that Vikings would not really be a contender for the round and we would go into it much like we went into last round. While last round we did well defensively we had a big struggle politically, mainly because we trusted in some we shouldn't have trusted in and were let down by others. This meant that for this round the command team wanted to at least have a strong political partner and have very little dealings with other allies. I don't know who made the initial contact, could have been Clouds or Spore. What i do know is that our interests seemed to align with Spore at the time, and as such we were interested in a deal with Spore. From our end the intention never was to kill off the round, but during the round our political situation was very uncertain at times as both FAnG and Faceless were hard to deal with politically for various reasons. That coupled with the very restrictive nature of 'mutual consent' made it really hard for us to break away from Spore. And if it weren't for a number of really harsh incidents between Spore and us I very much doubt we would in fact have broken with them at all.
This does not answer my question.
You arnt willing to teach new players.
You will not take a stand against avoiding stagnation.
You are not playing for planet or tag ranks.
To me it seems like you could aswell quit this game.
You guys are ruining the game for everyone else with these wank preround deals EVERY round.
I would say how terribly sorry i am to everyone else in this game for being a part of viks HC team this round, if i were you
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Unread 7 May 2014, 01:55   #343
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
What are you playing for if not ranks Influensa?
The little 3 letter word we have always played for: F U N. Vikings has a strong sense of community and our first and foremost intention is to maintain our community. If that leads us to a good rank, than we will be happy taking it home. But in the end all that matters is that we as a community had fun. Obviously, being successful is more fun than failing in the way that we did this round and last. And I will definitely admit these 2 rounds haven't been the most fun i've ever had in Vikings, but I'm fairly certain I've had more fun in Vikings then I could have had in any other alliance.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 02:10   #344
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
This does not answer my question.
You arnt willing to teach new players.
You will not take a stand against avoiding stagnation.
You are not playing for planet or tag ranks.
To me it seems like you could aswell quit this game.
You guys are ruining the game for everyone else with these wank preround deals EVERY round.
I would say how terribly sorry i am to everyone else in this game for being a part of viks HC team this round, if i were you
We take in a number of new players every round, just because our recruitment is invite only doesn't mean it's closed off completely.
Avoiding stagnation for the entire universe isn't our responsibility no. Avoiding stagnation for our members is where our responsibility is. When our members are happy with the stagnation for the security of their own ranks we will not de-stagnate just for the hack of it.
That planet, gal or tag ranks aren't everything for our alliance doesn't mean we won't play for them at all. We just won't do everything for them, and they aren't the main motivation behind our decisions.
This was only our 2nd pre-round deal ever, and I can assure you I will vote against any other pre-round deal for the foreseeable future.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 02:41   #345
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Wow, you're starting to get cocky just because you dominated this round. It may not mean much, but yours (and others within Spore) cockiness has reduced my overall opinion of Spore. Zhil worked hard to get where Spore is now, and now your members are going over-the-top-cocky which I think will backfire on Spore next round.
Clouds, iam not even playing next round.

i Hope Spore will do what i said ;-) nothing more.

i realy hope spore makes a fun round and primary fire alot on vikings for what they did this round, play abit with hr and War CT when ever vikings have problems with someone else ;-)

cocky, well this is spores time to shine we have played 4 rounds and we have played a major roll in 3 of em and now we get our first win.

But personaly i think Vikings lost all honor and respect this round.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 03:21   #346
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by coolkat View Post
they thought they could backstab spore to take first place..duh
You are a deadset moron.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 06:04   #347
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Re: R56 development thread.

ST stats are needed, why have huge alliances with tons of MT ships making this a defense heavy game?

Military Centers, build them so you can profit from XP on rougher bcalcs, of course, XP only becomes profitable towards the end of the round when top planets have accumulated roids and value, so it's a chicken and egg choice/problem. You have to stop every roid steal though to minimize the net positive of the MCs.

LOLwaves, really, seriously. Why do this at all, I see top planets with serious defense class holes? Why not simply spread out your attacks focusing on their weak points, keep DCs busy, and maximize the XP/Military Center advantage on a per wave basis.

Round length, I see comments that they are too long, I tend to agree. Problem with the advantage of large attacks only maximize gain at the 6-week mark. Accelerate the buildup of value by increasing the per roid mining payout and research/construction speeds to move the 6-week mark up to a 4-week mark in terms of planet value and infrastructure availability.

Even if all these things changed, I'm sure you'd all find a way to screw it up again.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 06:09   #348
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post

Our decision was made final when we learned that Forest had offered CT a formal deal behind our backs.
This is actually an outright lie based on:

1) We refused to offer CT any kind of deal and
2) I am not authed to offer any kind of deal

CT hit us with a block because we refused a deal
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Unread 7 May 2014, 06:15   #349
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
1. The behaviour of our HC's started to change 5-6 days before we cancelled our deal with you. Quite simply because we felt conned into making a deal with FAnG/Faceless so that we could ALL go after Ultores. That feeling didn't improve when FAnG and Faceless decided to focus on Vikings other allies instead of Ultores. What didn't help either was the fact that Spore didn't seem to be doing any work to coordinate attacks on Ultores at all, and left that for us to handle. So yeah, our behaviour did change,, and Spore did **** all to keep us on your side. Even when I asked for a favor in your help to control FAnG into not hitting Insomnia you couldn't deliver. For me personally that was the last straw after a whole lot of other issues between us. So yeah, we had the expectation things were ending between Spore and us, and yeah, as any half decent command team would, we were preparing for the possibility of us breaking up. Were we planning on it? DEFINITELY NOT, as we knew damn well it would not give us anything good either. I personally have absolutely no regrets over breaking up with you tho, Vikings and Spore just weren't meant to be.
This again is outright lies.

I organised it, I added certain people to certain rooms. I tried to have things co-ordinated.

Vikings however:

1) REFUSED outright to join the room.
2) REFUSED to co-ordinate with anyone out of spite.
3) REFUSED to give me any kind of LT for attacks.
4) Had spiteful digs at me personally at every single opportunity.
5) Put me on ignore.

You can't say I did nothing, when I actually did everything in my power to help you guys out. And all you did in return was refuse to co-operate and bitch.

I have co-ordinated many many wars over many many rounds, but this could never get off the ground becuase of the actions of YOU and YOUR hc.
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Unread 7 May 2014, 08:47   #350
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Re: R56 development thread.

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
This is actually an outright lie based on:

1) We refused to offer CT any kind of deal and
2) I am not authed to offer any kind of deal

CT hit us with a block because we refused a deal
I'm referring to AFTER the block died down on Spore, and logs from CT states otherwise.

Last edited by Clouds; 7 May 2014 at 08:55.
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