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Unread 1 Feb 2014, 21:20   #51
Kaiba
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
I mean, we are usually on the receiving end of a block and don't usually partake in bashing people who have little support.

Also, we have gone for the win, and failed, but that doesn't mean we're a low tier alliance, it just means we haven't been as good at the political game as some others. I am of course looking at the efficiently and potential of an alliance rather than the amount of times an alliance has won.

I very much doubt that Spore will cope under pressure. Maybe they should be tested?
Tbh Clouds what you have said about Vikings is exactly what i said about the teir that i put you in... MID.

And really CT isnt that different an alliance from Vikings, you both finish 3rd-5th in the rounds you have played normally within 10 mill score of each other. The only difference is that Vikings put in lots more defensive effort (and probably spend a lot more money every round) than CT. CT are a vastly better attacking unit than Vikings tho, and they play to this strong point every round. You both have crap planet management and equally grudge driven failure politics.


As for Spore they got tested last round and they will be tested this round, i actually think they will do better than you and other reckon. Spore is an alright alliance, im not a huge fan of their HC team but they have an honest hard working memberbase and its getting rewards. They are the only mid teir alliance that have current potential to move into top teir, the rest are all lost causes.
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Unread 1 Feb 2014, 23:35   #52
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
As for Spore they got tested last round
To be tested, you need to face considerable block incoming, which Spore hasn't experienced yet. Last round, they only really warred Faceless, and Apprime at the end of the round.

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And really CT isnt that different an alliance from Vikings, you both finish 3rd-5th in the rounds you have played normally within 10 mill score of each other.
I think we have different opinions of how we would categorise alliances. Your reasoning for placing Vikings and CT into the same category is based on our ranks in recent rounds. In the past 3-4 rounds, Vikings have been on the receiving end of a block for a considerable amount of ticks, and been forced to ground during this time too, whereas CT have always gone full offencive, and are usually the fundaments of the block(s).

While CT have a poor defencive record, they have a superb offencive reputation, and that's probably how Vikings and CT differ. Personally, I'm more of a defensive player and I will always prioritise defending roids over all out attacking.

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The only difference is that Vikings put in lots more defensive effort
I will agree with you on this statement, that Vikings are a more defencive alliance, which does affect our offence performance. I also want to point out that when Vikings gets blocked, it takes the whole round to pin us down, whereas it takes a matter of days to roid CT.

I'm not insulting or trolling CT, I'm just pointing out the facts and how CT and Vikings differ.

Last edited by Clouds; 2 Feb 2014 at 00:13.
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Unread 1 Feb 2014, 23:49   #53
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Spore.... Last round, they only really warred Faceless, and Apprime at the end of the round.
Both TheFallen and ND would disagree with that sentiment. In addition, we never went to war with Faceless, you could say we did with HR, but we were largely neutral to Faceless.

Also, Spore has faced a lot of incoming, look back at the stats and you will see that we have been comparable to other alliances for incoming during the rounds we have played. Also, this round, we had a run of nights with between 150 and 170+ incs per night which, if they weren't coordinated, involved a lot of coincidence, I am not sure how you can therefore state that we haven't been tested.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 00:12   #54
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Bashar View Post
Also, Spore has faced a lot of incoming, look back at the stats and you will see that we have been comparable to other alliances for incoming during the rounds we have played. Also, this round, we had a run of nights with between 150 and 170+ incs per night which, if they weren't coordinated, involved a lot of coincidence, I am not sure how you can therefore state that we haven't been tested.
I am of course referring to concentrated incoming which forces you to ground for a considerable amount of ticks.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 00:54   #55
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post



I think we have different opinions of how we would categorise alliances. Your reasoning for placing Vikings and CT into the same category is based on our ranks in recent rounds. In the past 3-4 rounds, Vikings have been on the receiving end of a block for a considerable amount of ticks, and been forced to ground during this time too, whereas CT have always gone full offencive, and are usually the fundaments of the block(s).
Actually no, i am not solely basing my catergorising on final positions.

CT and Vikings are extremely similar in member quality, both are prone to end of round crashing, both have a HC team inadequately skilled to win a round off its own back.

The only thing you do differently is how you approach the game. CT go all out and hold a high roid average for first 900 ticks before succumbing to incs and having that roid avg hit. They get all their value early in the round and it flatlines at round end.

Vikings start much slower, there roid avg is always behind CT until maybe tick 650 and then its marginal until CT lose all thier roids. Vikings value is stagnated until the latter part of the round when there is a late surge and you catch up and can sometimes overtake those around you.

In conclusion you both play the game at polar opposites, CT with the quick start which tails off and Vikings with the slower path which peaks at round end, both tactics are effective, both are valid, both have the same outcome, you finish 3rd-5th in the rankings, with normally almost equal planets in the t10/t100.

There is no right or wrong way to play the game and im glad your alliance plays the way you like to play, but dont be deluded into thinking that Vikings is superior to CT just because you can cover incs, the game is not solely about this and CT play for more attacking enjoyment because that is what their members like.

I am not mocking Vikings with this opinion, nor CT, it is just how it is, you both will never challenge for round win (through your own endevours) until you find the middle ground and allow more freedom to your members in how they use their fleets out of peak hours. This sole point is actually what seperates both of you from being top teir, the like of Ultores have much more freedom with their fleets once its hits 8am in the morning and they dayraid away a chunk of their losses from the night before, this keeps the roid flow steady and the members happy, too many rules regarding attacks, like in CT and Vikings can be a morale dampener and can stagnate roided planets.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 01:33   #56
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Bla Bla Bla.
You're only bitter because we kicked you from Vikings for 3+ consecutive rounds. Nice attempt at trolling, Kaiba, but if I'm honest, I probably don't give a shit what you think, and would probably listen to Bitcher's comments more than yours.

This is AD afterall, and the trolls are obviously always right, just like CT's tools.

Last edited by Clouds; 2 Feb 2014 at 01:41.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 10:51   #57
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
You're only bitter because we kicked you from Vikings for 3+ consecutive rounds. Nice attempt at trolling, Kaiba, but if I'm honest, I probably don't give a shit what you think, and would probably listen to Bitcher's comments more than yours.

This is AD afterall, and the trolls are obviously always right, just like CT's tools.
Lets get one thing straight, i made a post about how IN MY OPINION the alliances ranked, it was a broad spectrum post that covered and commented on each of the main alliances within the game. Only 1 HC from any of these alliances replied with a whine, yes that was YOU. So i replied to go more into depth with why i felt your alliance was ranked where i put it, again you replied with more whine and let your ego show through. So once again i replied to go into EVEN MORE detail as to why i think what i think. At no point was i was rude about either alliance, i merely impartially stated facts and praised both tactics that they employ. Low and behold you reply again but now because of the detail i have put into my replies you have no way to dispute it anymore and your little god complex is bruised so you cry 'TROLL' and try to discredit what i have written.

Please grow up Clouds and realise that Vikings although a good alliance and having a great and friendly memberbase of which i called most friends is most definatly a second teir alliance. Im assuming you are butthurt because you saw your alliances name in the third teir of my post and immediatly freaked without realising that i had put ND in its own teir because it is unique alliance. Vikings and CT are always contenders when a round begins (assuming they are full tag) i have never said otherwise, but they have never delivered the goods (off their own backs) and seen it through. There is various reasons for this and i PERSONALLY believe the HC teams of both alliances play a big role in this - attitudes, ego's and naivety within both alliances HC's teams is what lets them down.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 14:08   #58
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Please grow up Clouds and realise that Vikings although a good alliance and having a great and friendly memberbase of which i called most friends is most definatly a second teir alliance. Im assuming you are butthurt because you saw your alliances name in the third teir of my post and immediatly freaked without realising that i had put ND in its own teir because it is unique alliance. Vikings and CT are always contenders when a round begins (assuming they are full tag) i have never said otherwise, but they have never delivered the goods (off their own backs) and seen it through. There is various reasons for this and i PERSONALLY believe the HC teams of both alliances play a big role in this - attitudes, ego's and naivety within both alliances HC's teams is what lets them down.
TBH, i agree with you on the fact Vikings is a 2nd tier alliance. That's something rather obvious as they are yet to win a round. The only thing i disagree on is putting ND into a tier of their own by claiming they can win off their own backs. Because the last round they won off their own backs was r42, and even in that round you can argue it was because of other alliances (CT, xVx, TGV) screwing the pooch in the last 72 ticks. Granted ND probably has (one of) the best endgames when it matters, but tend to be the most politically inactive alliance in the first 6 weeks of the rounds they win.

It's obvious Clouds ranks alliances on how they handle heavy prolonged incs, which tbh is something i tend to agree with. Aside from Vikings, the alliances you've put in 2nd tier are not alliances that have proven to do well in that category. Like you have explained in your earlier posts, all alliances in the 2nd tier have their strengths and weaknesses which causes them to fall short.

CT: Best attacks, one of the worst defences, politically involved at the highest level throughout the entire round, never shy away from a war, strong social bond
ND: Mediocre attacks and defences, politically inactive, shy away from war unless they can ride the tail of another alliance, strong social bond, the best endgame
Vikings: Mediocre attacks, the best defence, politically involved throughout the round, very tense social structure causing regular implosions, one of the worst endgames
Spore: i haven't played with them long enough to form an informed opinion on them but in my opinion only fall short on the quality and activity of their memberbase.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 14:33   #59
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
TBH, i agree with you on the fact Vikings is a 2nd tier alliance. That's something rather obvious as they are yet to win a round. The only thing i disagree on is putting ND into a tier of their own by claiming they can win off their own backs. Because the last round they won off their own backs was r42, and even in that round you can argue it was because of other alliances (CT, xVx, TGV) screwing the pooch in the last 72 ticks. Granted ND probably has (one of) the best endgames when it matters, but tend to be the most politically inactive alliance in the first 6 weeks of the rounds they win.

It's obvious Clouds ranks alliances on how they handle heavy prolonged incs, which tbh is something i tend to agree with. Aside from Vikings, the alliances you've put in 2nd tier are not alliances that have proven to do well in that category. Like you have explained in your earlier posts, all alliances in the 2nd tier have their strengths and weaknesses which causes them to fall short.

CT: Best attacks, one of the worst defences, politically involved at the highest level throughout the entire round, never shy away from a war, strong social bond
ND: Mediocre attacks and defences, politically inactive, shy away from war unless they can ride the tail of another alliance, strong social bond, the best endgame
Vikings: Mediocre attacks, the best defence, politically involved throughout the round, very tense social structure causing regular implosions, one of the worst endgames
Spore: i haven't played with them long enough to form an informed opinion on them but in my opinion only fall short on the quality and activity of their memberbase.
Thank you for an honest response Influence, you make lots of points that i agree just with ND i see ManiacMagic being a very strong factor as to which ND turns up to play.

Regarding Spore from the very short time i played there i would summarise that actually their tools is something that lets them down, i hope that they have updated since then because they were using some rd10 bot and it wasnt pretty or easy to use. The ease of access and communication plays a large role within any alliance and once Spore has this they could make a step up and win a round. One thing is for sure, they have a VERY keen DCing team
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 15:32   #60
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Thank you for an honest response Influence, you make lots of points that i agree just with ND i see ManiacMagic being a very strong factor as to which ND turns up to play.

Regarding Spore from the very short time i played there i would summarise that actually their tools is something that lets them down, i hope that they have updated since then because they were using some rd10 bot and it wasnt pretty or easy to use. The ease of access and communication plays a large role within any alliance and once Spore has this they could make a step up and win a round. One thing is for sure, they have a VERY keen DCing team
What ive noticed from dealings with MM is that he is full of lies at time and has some very flamboyant political gambles, wich in the long run might let down NDs chances, as other alliances could have a very hard time trusting them.

And what the f*ck does having good tools to do with the quality of a alliance?
FAnG was run in notepad the round i was HC there, wich is more than enough.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 19:24   #61
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

agar3s dont make me loose roids again, fs!!!!
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 21:55   #62
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
The only thing i disagree on is putting ND into a tier of their own by claiming they can win off their own backs.
No one can. Arguably(!) the only alliances that ever won on their own were concordium in r2 (when no one even knew what an alliance was) and 1up in r11 (when they managed to get all their competitors to refrain from engaging in politics until it was too late). These two alliances had had about as little with each other in common as two alliances can, which leads me to question the point of using this as a requirement.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 22:47   #63
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
No one can. Arguably(!) the only alliances that ever won on their own were concordium in r2 (when no one even knew what an alliance was) and 1up in r11 (when they managed to get all their competitors to refrain from engaging in politics until it was too late). These two alliances had had about as little with each other in common as two alliances can, which leads me to question the point of using this as a requirement.
WaC didnt win r2 and ND were naped with 1up in the end of r11.
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Unread 2 Feb 2014, 23:12   #64
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

Asc r16 did it on their own more or less, with help of the xp formulae.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 00:02   #65
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Im not saying Ult needs a block to win do i?
Im just saying when Ult are behind, they always tend to block on the alliances above them and gangbang, and this happend to CT also this round according to some.
FAnG post R49 is not close to the same alliance as it was R45-49, its been a mix of a community tag and a try-hard-win-nothing tag.
You havent said it directly no, but thats what you have been implying since Ults very existance, and still you acuse them of "eliteism" at the same time. Nothing in my post was about anything taking place after rnd49, except Ult might be blocking on CT for more than military reasons. Ult never needed (or enjoyed) to gangbang/block on anyone in any round until they got gangbanged themselfs first. And how could they have a "tendency" to block on alliances above them when there never was anyone above them at the ticks the blockwars (almost always initiated by CT) started. That Ult return a round and give CT a taste of theyr own medicine (and showing them how big cowards they were regarding Ult in rnd43-49 and Vikings rnd53-54) hardly make it a tendency.
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Round 7-36: Retirement
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 00:20   #66
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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You havent said it directly no, but thats what you have been implying since Ults very existance, and still you acuse them of "eliteism" at the same time. Nothing in my post was about anything taking place after rnd49, except Ult might be blocking on CT for more than military reasons. Ult never needed (or enjoyed) to gangbang/block on anyone in any round until they got gangbanged themselfs first. And how could they have a "tendency" to block on alliances above them when there never was anyone above them at the ticks the blockwars (almost always initiated by CT) started. That Ult return a round and give CT a taste of theyr own medicine (and showing them how big cowards they were regarding Ult in rnd43-49 and Vikings rnd53-54) hardly make it a tendency.
Every good alliance needs allies to win if there is a massive block against them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with blocking provided it doesn't lead to stagnation either. I don't know why you are claiming Ult to have some kind of high ground when there is none to take.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 07:16   #67
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

Ultores form counter blocks.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 10:34   #68
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Every good alliance needs allies to win if there is a massive block against them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with blocking provided it doesn't lead to stagnation either. I don't know why you are claiming Ult to have some kind of high ground when there is none to take.
Tbh he is just defending his old alliance against the bile spewed by Bitcher.

Ultores never started a round with a pre made block, they may have started with agreements that if a block formed against them then other alliances would form a counter block to stop this. If anything the likes of CT and ND are more synomous with pre made blocks and were pretty much in each others pockets throughout the 40's. Same again with ND and FanG when both worked as a team for multiple rounds.

What Bitcher needs to realise is that there is large difference between having an agreement to help each other if one or the other gets blocked against and starting the round with an agreement to block against whoever the biggest threat is.

In reply to mz i was only use ones ablility to win off their own back as a point that the top teirs politics didnt require a specific helper to see them win the round whereas CT especially have only won a round when they have been backed specifically by a certain alliance/alliances with the only goal to be getting them the win.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 10:39   #69
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
And what the f*ck does having good tools to do with the quality of a alliance?
FAnG was run in notepad the round i was HC there, wich is more than enough.
Good tools is an essential for an alliance that wants to win PA in its current form. If you dont have a decent sms bot and call bot then you will not compete with the alliances that do. If you are using ingame attack page then you will not be as good on attacks as those which use more sophisicated systems (as the ingame attack page is poorly executed and prone to piggying issues).

Ofc the better the memberbase and the higher the irc activity then the less the sms and call bots are a difference but when you are under big incs they will save you lots more roids than using a 'notepad' will.......
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 12:39   #70
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Good tools is an essential for an alliance that wants to win PA in its current form. If you dont have a decent sms bot and call bot then you will not compete with the alliances that do. If you are using ingame attack page then you will not be as good on attacks as those which use more sophisicated systems (as the ingame attack page is poorly executed and prone to piggying issues).

Ofc the better the memberbase and the higher the irc activity then the less the sms and call bots are a difference but when you are under big incs they will save you lots more roids than using a 'notepad' will.......
Spore has always had a SMS and call bot.
So in that regard they have all the tools they will ever need?
To some extent the ingame attack page is much better than "Merlin" wich most allies use imho, and the only other attack system ive been using except this lately is CTs, and id say that is far too clumsy for my likings.
Notepad and googledoc is still the attack tool i prefer when im doing military stuff.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 12:39   #71
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
the bile spewed by Bitcher.
Pot meet kettle.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
In reply to mz i was only use ones ablility to win off their own back as a point that the top teirs politics didnt require a specific helper to see them win the round whereas CT especially have only won a round when they have been backed specifically by a certain alliance/alliances with the only goal to be getting them the win.
True kingmaking, that is, selflessly dedicating yourself to someone else's win, without concern for your own gains or losses, is pretty rare. Most allegations of kingmaking are firmly in the domain of AD propaganda.

What actually happens is that alliances form blocks, and when they stay together, the biggest/best alliance in the block ends up being in the running for the win. Sometimes you lose the ability to secure the win yourself, either through misfortune, or incompetence, or lack of members, or excessive loyalty. At that point, it's common to start supporting an alliance that's still in the running. That has little to do with true kingmaking, and more with just taking what you can get. Almost every round win in the history of PA was at least partly the result of this course of events. I already posted my list of exceptions.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 12:43   #72
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
Ultores form counter blocks.
Hahaha.
Ultores is usualy going for the win, therefor when they fall behind they always forms a block to kill of the alliances above. This is a fact, there is no point denying this.
You and your good friend Kaiba claim that Ultores are usualy so strong and always in the lead that they dont need to form any blocks to compete.
The fact that Ultores is one of the alliances that are giving more than others into winning is the reason for their tendency to be blockers and gangbangers.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 13:46   #73
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
No one can. Arguably(!) the only alliances that ever won on their own were concordium in r2 (when no one even knew what an alliance was) and 1up in r11 (when they managed to get all their competitors to refrain from engaging in politics until it was too late). These two alliances had had about as little with each other in common as two alliances can, which leads me to question the point of using this as a requirement.
Forgotten to mention exil r18
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 14:36   #74
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Forgotten to mention exil r18
When they were working with Omen?
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 15:03   #75
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Hahaha.
Ultores is usualy going for the win, therefor when they fall behind they always forms a block to kill of the alliances above. This is a fact, there is no point denying this.
You and your good friend Kaiba claim that Ultores are usualy so strong and always in the lead that they dont need to form any blocks to compete.
The fact that Ultores is one of the alliances that are giving more than others into winning is the reason for their tendency to be blockers and gangbangers.
you know nothing of what goes on behind ultores doors pal. we having ct and nd working on politics to block against us before round starts. we dont ask around saying yo pal ct are too strong we should block vs them else they will win easy mode. we ask our allies to help us vs the block not vs a single ally
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 15:21   #76
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
When they were working with Omen?
Exil managed to beat 1up early doors, Subh, xvx, Escape decided to hit omen. Omen survived, the late part of the round 1up tries to rally a block v exil. Subh learned that 1up would back stab them and the block fell apart.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 16:00   #77
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
you know nothing of what goes on behind ultores doors pal. we having ct and nd working on politics to block against us before round starts. we dont ask around saying yo pal ct are too strong we should block vs them else they will win easy mode. we ask our allies to help us vs the block not vs a single ally
We have had a relay bot from Ult priv channel in all the rounds Ultores have been playing
Its ironic that yourself claim to be aware of some secret plan to kill Ultores before the round even commence, how would you know this?
Look what happend R49, Ultores made a block to try kill off FAnG, while FAnG were neutral, no naps, no nothing
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 19:05   #78
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
Ultores form counter blocks.
lol

just

lol
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 19:18   #79
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
We have had a relay bot from Ult priv channel in all the rounds Ultores have been playing
Its ironic that yourself claim to be aware of some secret plan to kill Ultores before the round even commence, how would you know this?
Look what happend R49, Ultores made a block to try kill off FAnG, while FAnG were neutral, no naps, no nothing
Actually, in r49 FAnG setup a block with CT, ND and Inn fairly early in the round. I distinctly remember this as said block was trying to pull in TGV from the start, and ND setup 16 waves on my FAnG galmate in the first 5 days which he couldn't retal as FAnG had entered a NAP with ND on day 6.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 19:35   #80
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
Actually, in r49 FAnG setup a block with CT, ND and Inn fairly early in the round. I distinctly remember this as said block was trying to pull in TGV from the start, and ND setup 16 waves on my FAnG galmate in the first 5 days which he couldn't retal as FAnG had entered a NAP with ND on day 6.
I was in FAnG that round and im pretty sure im more aware of what happend than you.
I spoke to RexDrax in the very end of the round about them picking a side, either FAnG or Ultores.
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 22:52   #81
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I was in FAnG that round and im pretty sure im more aware of what happend than you.
I spoke to RexDrax in the very end of the round about them picking a side, either FAnG or Ultores.
I never said TGV picked a side until very late in the round. That wasn't for a lack of trying on FAnGs part tho...
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 23:20   #82
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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I never said TGV picked a side until very late in the round. That wasn't for a lack of trying on FAnGs part tho...
The rest is also incorrect
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Unread 3 Feb 2014, 23:20   #83
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Tbh he is just defending his old alliance against the bile spewed by Bitcher.
But he's talking nonsense, and I'll explain why.

Quote:
Ultores never started a round with a pre made block, they may have started with agreements that if a block formed against them then other alliances would form a counter block to stop this. If anything the likes of CT and ND are more synomous with pre made blocks and were pretty much in each others pockets throughout the 40's. Same again with ND and FanG when both worked as a team for multiple rounds.
As the superior alliance, Ultores should expect others alliance to block against them. The most sensible move is to go after the biggest threat, and stop them from dominating the round. From that point of view, there is no issue with pre-round blocks. Also, I hugely doubt your contention that Ultores don't have a pre-round block of any kind. It's fairly obvious they have alliances predisposed to working with them, and just because there isn't a formal agreement doesn't mean anything in the eyes of those hostile to them. Because if you attack Ultores, they will just activate those agreements.

Quote:
What Bitcher needs to realise is that there is large difference between having an agreement to help each other if one or the other gets blocked against and starting the round with an agreement to block against whoever the biggest threat is.
There's not much difference, because both are common sense political strategies.

Quote:
In reply to mz i was only use ones ablility to win off their own back as a point that the top teirs politics didnt require a specific helper to see them win the round whereas CT especially have only won a round when they have been backed specifically by a certain alliance/alliances with the only goal to be getting them the win.
This is just a wrong argument, and always has been. The only alliances to do that have been where the opposition folded completely, or in Ascendancy's case, through use of the game engine. Even the best alliances need help or have used long term alliances. You can still be brilliant and get help. In fact, if you are any good and there is a political agreement that can decisively win you the round, then you just go and do it. I highly doubt that HC sit there and go "I must get a totally military victory to prove my alliance's superiority" rather than do what's best for their alliance at the time.

From the smaller alliance's point of view, a friendly agreement with a much bigger alliance can make a lot of sense. You avoid incoming from a big fish, potentially avoid a scenario where a big hostile alliance treats you as a roid farm, and get access to targets you otherwise wouldn't without the kick back of being heavily targeted yourself. So they might be helping someone else to win, but they are protecting themselves at the same time.

What most likely happens is that alliance leaders play their hand the best way they see it. I'll wager that kingmaking rarely enters their heads unless they really want to piss someone off, and then it's all about pissing that person off, because after that who wins is irrelevant.
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Unread 4 Feb 2014, 22:26   #84
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
you know nothing of what goes on behind ultores doors pal. we having ct and nd working on politics to block against us before round starts. we dont ask around saying yo pal ct are too strong we should block vs them else they will win easy mode. we ask our allies to help us vs the block not vs a single ally
CT/ND block when doing so is the only way to remain a credible threat. Ultores block the minute anyone else becomes a credible threat. There's no difference in values here, you just start the race further ahead. You're also in bed with arguably the second most hardcore group of players in the game, whether or not you raid with each other before someone else challenges your top spot.


edit: looks like lokken stole my post

Last edited by oil; 4 Feb 2014 at 22:28. Reason: reason for editing is above thanks, thanks.sss
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Unread 5 Feb 2014, 13:41   #85
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

Who is this second most hardcore alliance in game?
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Unread 5 Feb 2014, 14:03   #86
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

I would assume he means Apprime, and if they are so 'HARDCORE' why do they need to cheat oil? Only alliances that arent up to the mark have to cheat to keep up with the better ones..... do CT cheat?
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Unread 5 Feb 2014, 15:00   #87
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I would assume he means Apprime, and if they are so 'HARDCORE' why do they need to cheat oil? Only alliances that arent up to the mark have to cheat to keep up with the better ones..... do CT cheat?
Cheating doesn't have to simply be out of weakness, nor does being good preclude cheating. This post is a complete red herring.
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Unread 5 Feb 2014, 17:44   #88
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

Yes, we're very hardcore, be careful pals
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Unread 6 Feb 2014, 00:19   #89
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Exil managed to beat 1up early doors, Subh, xvx, Escape decided to hit omen. Omen survived, the late part of the round 1up tries to rally a block v exil. Subh learned that 1up would back stab them and the block fell apart.
I'll point out that 1up had no plans to backstab Subh whatsoever. Considering I was part of the 1up HC at the time. I remember Sid being pretty pissed when Subh made an agreement and then backed out without telling us.

That then resulted in 1up deciding to say **** it and not bothering to put in any effort to organize a block. If the other alliances in the game weren't willing to do it (or others who could achieve #1 as at the time 1up was not going too - it was just willing to offer its expertise in warfare) then why should 1up?

Just correcting you on this piece of misinformation and slander to 1up for that round.
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[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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Unread 6 Feb 2014, 00:45   #90
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I'll point out that 1up had no plans to backstab Subh whatsoever. Considering I was part of the 1up HC at the time. I remember Sid being pretty pissed when Subh made an agreement and then backed out without telling us.

That then resulted in 1up deciding to say **** it and not bothering to put in any effort to organize a block. If the other alliances in the game weren't willing to do it (or others who could achieve #1 as at the time 1up was not going too - it was just willing to offer its expertise in warfare) then why should 1up?

Just correcting you on this piece of misinformation and slander to 1up for that round.
Lies what utter lies, I even got that info from apoam who was an 1up officer that 1up would go for the win even if that means backstabing subh. And that was good enough for me.
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Unread 6 Feb 2014, 00:54   #91
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Lies what utter lies, I even got that info from apoam who was an 1up officer that 1up would go for the win even if that means backstabing subh. And that was good enough for me.
Why would I lie for an alliance that is five-six years gone? I can call mazzelaar here if need be but your "source" is wrong.

Firstly, 1up officers were not privy to political planning.

Secondly, Sid was renowned for being upfront and honest with all his dealings. If Subh really pulled out based on a rumour from a so-called officer then mores the pity on them.
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[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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Unread 6 Feb 2014, 01:13   #92
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Why would I lie for an alliance that is five-six years gone? I can call mazzelaar here if need be but your "source" is wrong.

Firstly, 1up officers were not privy to political planning.
Why would my source lie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Secondly, Sid was renowned for being upfront and honest with all his dealings. If Subh really pulled out based on a rumour from a so-called officer then mores the pity on them.
I remember Sid's diplomacy manner very well. I wish I had kept logs.
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Unread 6 Feb 2014, 02:22   #93
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Why would my source lie?
Probably because your source actually knew nothing and wanted to curry favour. It happens.

1up had no plans to backstab Subh, which is why our reaction was so harsh post Subh pulling out the deal.
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[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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Unread 6 Feb 2014, 21:59   #94
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

That's odd...i could have sworn the subject of this thread was "mid round sumup", ahhh screw it. I guess we will talk about everything but that?
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Unread 9 Feb 2014, 12:58   #95
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

OK if you want to talk about politics/state of war, talk here. R55 stats, to Strategic Discussions!
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Unread 9 Feb 2014, 13:00   #96
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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OK if you want to talk about politics/state of war, talk here. R55 stats, to Strategic Discussions!
Obviously stats, politics and "state of war" goes hand in hand when the diffrent alliances have diffrent tactics.
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Unread 9 Feb 2014, 13:55   #97
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Obviously stats, politics and "state of war" goes hand in hand when the diffrent alliances have diffrent tactics.
If you want to debate as to why X may not go to war with Y because of their stat choices because they would get demolished, then fine. On the other hand, if you want to debate the merit of the stats, then that's not for here. What I moved was rather more of the latter. I'd already pointed people to SD once to give fair warning, and after a report post, I decided to do something about it. Think that should be clear enough for everyone.
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Unread 10 Feb 2014, 01:12   #98
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

Is there a change in the tide in the App vs Vikings war?
Rumours has it that Vikings will soon be heading into some more trouble
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Unread 11 Feb 2014, 03:36   #99
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Is there a change in the tide in the App vs Vikings war?
Rumours has it that Vikings will soon be heading into some more trouble
Extremely well informed as usually.
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Unread 11 Feb 2014, 20:22   #100
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Re: r 5 5 mid round sumup

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Both TheFallen and ND would disagree with that sentiment. In addition, we never went to war with Faceless, you could say we did with HR, but we were largely neutral to Faceless.

Also, Spore has faced a lot of incoming, look back at the stats and you will see that we have been comparable to other alliances for incoming during the rounds we have played. Also, this round, we had a run of nights with between 150 and 170+ incs per night which, if they weren't coordinated, involved a lot of coincidence, I am not sure how you can therefore state that we haven't been tested.
You mean the failure to roid us before bring 2 other allies?
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