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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 02:11   #51
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
60*49=2960


Every alliance is below this, nd by over 1000 incs, hr by 800, ct and fang by 300.

I have been in a 'top alliance' most rounds since rd 45 and I don't think I have seen a regular 60 incs a day ever. A closer figure would be 30-40 maybe 50 if a fort is hit.
Again with the bad maths
Try 60*48 as even the best alliances cannot be attacked on the first day
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 05:41   #52
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post

So yes, Vikings had less incs each day than the others, but that was with 2 less active alliances and 50 less active players. Both of which drastically lower the amount of incs imho. Unfortunately, the difference is so big there is no real comparison. I think all this shows is how poor FAnGs inc were in r50 (and Apprimes inc in r48) compared to TGV in r51 and Ultores in r52.


Why does the number of active alliances matter? Well, the lower the number of alliances are actively playing, the easier it becomes to control your incs(fewer alliances gives a higher probability to have agreements with more of your possible incs), the less likely alliances are to gang up on you(gangups work on the premise of outnumbering your enemy, with fewer alliances available gangups are smaller), and the less random incs you are gonna get in the first weeks (alliances tend to stick to a maximum of 2 galaxies on their raids, this limits the number of members getting incs due to galraids)
I think this could lead to another interesting discussion.
Does small tags make it easier for "top alliances" to create a gap to the smaller allies and stagnate the univers?
Another thing is that certain gals thrive under small tags and lots of nap conditions
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 10:24   #53
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
So you guys want meaningless stats, I'll give them to you.

Top 10 alliances: https://gist.github.com/2717819

Top 10 alliances by total incs: https://gist.github.com/2717849
Top 10 alliances by ratio: https://gist.github.com/2717959

Round winners by total incs: https://gist.github.com/2717892
Round winners by ratio: https://gist.github.com/2717966
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 14:03   #54
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I think this could lead to another interesting discussion.
Does small tags make it easier for "top alliances" to create a gap to the smaller allies and stagnate the univers?
Another thing is that certain gals thrive under small tags and lots of nap conditions
It's funny you say that the universe was "stagnant" because up until the last day the round was still up in the air between CT/Vikings, and if FAnG didn't implode it could have been a three-way race to the very end. I'm not sure what else you want from this game but there was good competition for #1. Alas, CT prevailed.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 15:53   #55
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by WillyNilly View Post
It's funny you say that the universe was "stagnant" because up until the last day the round was still up in the air between CT/Vikings, and if FAnG didn't implode it could have been a three-way race to the very end. I'm not sure what else you want from this game but there was good competition for #1. Alas, CT prevailed.
I don't think he meant this round, but more in a hypothetical way.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 16:49   #56
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by KillGhost View Post
I don't think he meant this round, but more in a hypothetical way.
I think he was just proving bitcher wrong. I actually think that aslong as gal sizes go down in line with tag sizes then tags of 40 and gals of 8 would work well. I think from the amount of smaller tags containing good players now, FI is a good example that it would make these kinds have more of an impact on a round, which currently they don't.

Take ROCK or Spore for example, now in a mid round situation Spore wouldn't have done more than irritate a top alliance, whilst not overly caring for its own ally rank (anything above 6th was unrealistic due to big tags). But if it was one of 8-10 40 man tags then it could have been contending maybe or actually have to think more what it's goals were politically. Currently with bigger tags every alliance of 40 or less don't have to give a shit cos there is no prize to play for. Lower tags to raise competition I say!
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 19:27   #57
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by WillyNilly View Post
It's funny you say that the universe was "stagnant" because up until the last day the round was still up in the air between CT/Vikings, and if FAnG didn't implode it could have been a three-way race to the very end. I'm not sure what else you want from this game but there was good competition for #1. Alas, CT prevailed.
For majority of the round the two alliance that spent the longest time(afaik) in rank #1 and #2 were NAPed, and if you look back on the history of rounds like R51, some alliances dont even care if they win or not, as long as one of their allied alliances wins.
So the question is more or less is this easier with smaller tags?
FAnG got 3 planet in top50, 2 of them having the status as "HC" afaik.
ROCK have 2 planets, 2 of them have status as HC.
3 out of the top5 HR planets is HC.
Not that i say these planets abuse their alliances for planet ranks or anything like that, but it makes me wonder how much easier it is getting a top rank being HC of a alliance, and would it be this easy if the tags where bigger?
Would most people actualy stagnate the univers for their own planet ranks?
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 20:01   #58
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Would most people actualy stagnate the univers for their own planet ranks?
That's the wrong question to ask. Most people would never find themselves in the position where they could stagnate the universe for their own gain. Only an influential few do, and there's significant selection bias there. Maybe they have some character traits that are well suited to leadership, or maybe they're just hungry for power. Whatever the explanation, it's not the average player who becomes a HC.

So no, I don't think most people would be that selfish, even if given the opportunity. But they will never get the opportunity, and most would either not recognize, or not care, even if it did come. But of the actual people who get, recognize and take the opportunity, many are.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 21:10   #59
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
That's the wrong question to ask. Most people would never find themselves in the position where they could stagnate the universe for their own gain. Only an influential few do, and there's significant selection bias there. Maybe they have some character traits that are well suited to leadership, or maybe they're just hungry for power. Whatever the explanation, it's not the average player who becomes a HC.

So no, I don't think most people would be that selfish, even if given the opportunity. But they will never get the opportunity, and most would either not recognize, or not care, even if it did come. But of the actual people who get, recognize and take the opportunity, many are.
Well, imho, the more small tags you got, the more people it will be.
Its not like its a set number of people in the game that can be a HC, or a set number of those HCs that would rather kill of a round in Return for a top ranking.
More small tags, more people wich can abuse this in my world
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 21:28   #60
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

I don't agree with this. With the rock hc and hr hc ranks that is just because they are experienced players. They know how to run there planet and the newer players look up to them for advice and so on. In the bigger alliances there is more behind the scenes than in the smaller ones so hc planets don't always rank as high there. They also take on roles like scanner and a such because they have fluctuating member bases depending on there round goals. Smaller tags would just see better politics IMO with more of the 'also ran' alliances having a bigger say in war. I would hazard that you wouldn't see the 5-6 alliance gangbangs anymore because the roids of their target would dissapear vastly quicker. It would lead to more prolonged wars from smaller teams, maybe with A at war with B and C whilst D attacks E and E helps out A. More competing tags cannot be a bad thing atm
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 21:35   #61
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

I disagree that its more competing tags, there has not been a New alliance wich have won this game in the last 10 rounds.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 22:05   #62
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I disagree that its more competing tags, there has not been a New alliance wich have won this game in the last 10 rounds.
Except for FAnG winning their 2nd round back :P
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 22:09   #63
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I disagree that its more competing tags, there has not been a New alliance wich have won this game in the last 10 rounds.
That's because no new tag has managed to get 60 members. Yet there have been plenty of 'lesser' tags created and gone in this time.

Dfwtk
Innuendo
Spore
Rock
Fighting Irish
Pwned
NGO (heh)
XVX

If you push back to 15 rounds I could probably say 3-4 more

All these could have a tag with atleast 25 competitive people.

Even HR have a solid core of 30 people, it's the other 30 that let them down in terms of competing.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 22:11   #64
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

I would prefer that small allies try and do mergers were possible.
Most folk actually see targets being easier in smaller tags etc.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 22:16   #65
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
For majority of the round the two alliance that spent the longest time(afaik) in rank #1 and #2 were NAPed, and if you look back on the history of rounds like R51, some alliances dont even care if they win or not, as long as one of their allied alliances wins.
Vikings and FAnG have only had a fort avoid for 10 days this round, hardly the majority of the round...

And TGV r51 certainly did care about winning, however, not by backstabbing our most trusted ally just for the sake of entertaining anyone outside of TGV themselfs. And why would TGV create a new enemy out of their trusted ally when they allready had 2 allies swearing that TGV would not win the round? Perhaps if FAnG/ND had given us an acceptable offer we would have dropped our alliance with Apprime. But they never did so no-one will ever know.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 22:43   #66
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well, imho, the more small tags you got, the more people it will be.
Its not like its a set number of people in the game that can be a HC, or a set number of those HCs that would rather kill of a round in Return for a top ranking.
More small tags, more people wich can abuse this in my world
Of course, but we're still talking about a group that's largely self-selected, and that still at most comprises about 5% of the player base.

It is also worth noting that with more small tags, the influence any single HC has goes down. The influence is shared between all the HCs in the game after all (though not evenly, obviously).
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 23:08   #67
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

Someone said that small tags is bad cos there isn't enough HCs. I think that a lot of potential HC's are put off because there isn't enough free players to start a tag with. Personally I would never want a 10 man tag in the current game because you will just get farmed. If tag sizes were chopped then a lot of potential recruits would be available and make the start of a tag a possibility. Remember that what is considered dead wood in a big alliance like fang or Vikings could be a solid member in a smaller tag.

I would hope that tag sizes is something really considered by pa team in the new year because they need to inject a new dynamic and this could be a good start
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 23:16   #68
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

No one is saying small tags are good. We're just discussing how small tags would change a very small aspect of the game, namely the influence of a small group of HCs.
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Unread 31 Oct 2013, 23:34   #69
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

No i know that im just saying that as a side thing.

I am obviously pro small tags and i know bitcher is pro big tags, i would like the pa team to look at one of them though and implement it, we cant continue with this middle ground that is in itself stagnating the game.

I also agree with what you are saying about the minority mz, and i agree that smaller tags would lessen this effect they have as they would control less people, so smaller alliances could ultimately change how top planets end up and take them away from the same few all the time. Also lowering galaxy size to 1/5th of an average of the top 10 tags would remove some of the power a certain few galaxies weild.

I havent calculated it but i would assume 40 is roughly the t10 alliance average atm, maybe a little higher so gal sizes of 8-9 would be best for equalising where the power lies between gals and alliances atm.

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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 07:20   #70
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Of course, but we're still talking about a group that's largely self-selected, and that still at most comprises about 5% of the player base.

It is also worth noting that with more small tags, the influence any single HC has goes down. The influence is shared between all the HCs in the game after all (though not evenly, obviously).
Ive been around in a lot of alliances the last 8 rounds, and ive seen a trend were the numbers of HCs are the same in a 30 man tag as in a 60 man tag, id actualy claim that the smaller tags tend to have more people with "HC" priviledges in the smaller tags.
A reason for this mighr be that contacts and relation is more important when the odds(numbers) is against you.
The HC roles in a HC team now days seems to move towards a system where you dont specialism in certain aspects in a alliance. Back in the days you would have HC roles as intel, internal affairs, military, and tech. A lot of these roled overlapped to some extent, and in older alliances/HC teamsim sure that roles might not even be defined to a special era, but they tend to just take roled as theyve known each other over a long time.
I dont know if understand where im going with this.
Each HC has to be a role model, and also have enough respect in the member base to have a fear factor and be intimidating.
Now days there is a dynamic where members dont respect the HCs and decide to create their own small tags, sometimes due to ethical stand points, but often to increase their own chances without increasing the effort.
Spore, Faceless, FI, ROCK and "imortals" are good examples of this.
I think it is a worrying trend, and smaller tags seems to encourage this
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 08:44   #71
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

I would like to point out on record, that no spore HC will ever take precedence in defence or attacks, over a member.
Infact we are very vocal about being the opposite, picking targets last etc.

That's how we roll
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 10:19   #72
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Thumbs up Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I would like to point out on record, that no spore HC will ever take precedence in defence or attacks, over a member.
Infact we are very vocal about being the opposite, picking targets last etc.

That's how we roll
I don't think anybody gives a **** what your self important little club does but cheers for sharing!
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 12:35   #73
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I don't think anybody gives a **** what your self important little club does but cheers for sharing!
Lol, i know you are bitter, but this is a litle bit too much even for you
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 12:40   #74
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I would like to point out on record, that no spore HC will ever take precedence in defence or attacks, over a member.
Infact we are very vocal about being the opposite, picking targets last etc.

That's how we roll
Yes, i know Spore wasnt created to increase anyones chances on getting rankings, and i think everyone knows why what the Spore core is today split away from the allie they were in to create their own ally/tag.
Ive actualy seen people sitting in a "officer(VIP)" channel, watching wich targets was being put up, and through merlin tools prepicking the targets they wanted for themself, so when the targets were released they were automaticly being marked as claimed by said person.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 13:43   #75
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I don't think anybody gives a **** what your self important little club does but cheers for sharing!
Surely these forums now need moderators that are active in removing trolls?
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 14:20   #76
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

Trolling is only bad if other people are doing it.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 14:39   #77
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

Decreasing tag sizes, let's say 40, would kill off players, due to the fact that some players only play for the communities within their alliances.

Increasing tag sizes would allow certain alliances to dominate and farm smaller alliances, worse than what we are seeing now.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 15:28   #78
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

maybe we need to lose some players in order to gain more?

if players 'only play if they can be next to their friends', well they are excluding new players and harming the game
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 15:33   #79
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

Well looking at the stats, and on politic relation, tag sizes, and the trend in PA these days, the question is that if smaller tags create a harmfull enviorment, perhaps it is better with bigger ones where the community spirit and alliance is put first.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 17:50   #80
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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maybe we need to lose some players in order to gain more?

if players 'only play if they can be next to their friends', well they are excluding new players and harming the game
I think ultimately that the 'toxic' group will leave the game when a change is finally made that hampers their monopoly on it.

I don't completely agree with Clouds about the people just playing somewhere to be with friends. From my experience each larger alliance houses 2-3 cliques within it who want to play with each other. They are loyal to each other not necessarily to the alliance. It's why you see small groups move around from tag to tag rather than individual players. These cliques would/could move into newly formed tags without too much issue. I think the main issue would be finding an alliance that shares your attitude to the game, wether going ftw or planet ranks or even trolling. That would be where more tags would be better imo
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 18:12   #81
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I think ultimately that the 'toxic' group will leave the game when a change is finally made that hampers their monopoly on it.

I don't completely agree with Clouds about the people just playing somewhere to be with friends.
I think that can translate to ...

Know them well enough for them to use VNC to log on to my computer whilst im asleep and not do anything dodgy to whilst AFK.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 18:18   #82
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I don't completely agree with Clouds about the people just playing somewhere to be with friends. From my experience each larger alliance houses 2-3 cliques within it who want to play with each other. They are loyal to each other not necessarily to the alliance. It's why you see small groups move around from tag to tag rather than individual players. These cliques would/could move into newly formed tags without too much issue. I think the main issue would be finding an alliance that shares your attitude to the game, wether going ftw or planet ranks or even trolling. That would be where more tags would be better imo
That's not what I meant. Alliances like NewDawn, FAnG & Vikings have a core group who will only ever play in their respective alliances, and if they got 'forced' out, they just wouldn't play.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 18:28   #83
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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That's not what I meant. Alliances like NewDawn, FAnG & Vikings have a core group who will only ever play in their respective alliances, and if they got 'forced' out, they just wouldn't play.
I agree there, however I would like to see more smaller tags merging rather than chopping off the tag limit.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 18:40   #84
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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That's not what I meant. Alliances like NewDawn, FAnG & Vikings have a core group who will only ever play in their respective alliances, and if they got 'forced' out, they just wouldn't play.
I dont think that is strictly true either.

Most alliances have a core that is true, but that number is nowhere near what the limit is.

I will use CT as an example, just because I am more familiar with their workings than any other alliance.
If we are talking of a limit of say 40 members, well CT probably have a core of 30-40. Lets say 30 members and another 10 that play 'some rounds'. The other 20 is made up with what I call alliance hoppers. If we dropped the limit to 40, what would happen is the hoppers would find a home elsewhere (because they had been told CT is full).
This will fill out alliances who only have 20-30 members.

So no-one in CT would actually quit. The core would still be there. The occasional players would be able to find a home back there. And the hoppers would either start their own core or join somoene like FI/Rock/Spore.

This would actually empower the current smaller alliances. Hoppers are usually better (more active) players, that won't just settle for the same old alliance regardless of how it is run.

I would be fighting tooth and nail to lower the limit to 40 if it wasn't for my one fear and that is tools/sms costs. I for instance was put off starting an alliance for a long time because of costs. It would need PA to be able to incorporate this into the game (such as now, where you can view free fleets and pa mail them, but be able to sms/email them through the same function).

But pa would need to take a big shift to incorporate this I think.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 18:47   #85
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I agree there, however I would like to see more smaller tags merging rather than chopping off the tag limit.
I don't see either 1) this will help, or 2) why it should even be like that.

At the moment we have approx 600 playing accounts. Why should an alliance need 10% of a whole games member base, just to be competitive?

That just cant work out
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 19:29   #86
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I for instance was put off starting an alliance for a long time because of costs. It would need PA to be able to incorporate this into the game (such as now, where you can view free fleets and pa mail them, but be able to sms/email them through the same function).

But pa would need to take a big shift to incorporate this I think.
It doesn't really cost much to run an alliance in terms of communicative tools.

EG add Whatsapp functionality (free), a decent callbot function (maximum of £10 per round).
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 20:56   #87
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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It doesn't really cost much to run an alliance in terms of communicative tools.

EG add Whatsapp functionality (free), a decent callbot function (maximum of £10 per round).
I actually think what Forest is getting at is that by having a tag challenging for the win there is an emphasis to have lots of funds available for sms/call bot. As your intentions are higher and the need for response higher. From what mpulse said sms is about £50 a round in Vikings and call bot £20 that is a lot to put in for no reward
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 21:20   #88
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I actually think what Forest is getting at is that by having a tag challenging for the win there is an emphasis to have lots of funds available for sms/call bot. As your intentions are higher and the need for response higher. From what mpulse said sms is about £50 a round in Vikings and call bot £20 that is a lot to put in for no reward
Yes and it wasnt far off that for spore, an alliance half the size. I think it can be argued, the less active the alliance, the more costs. For vikings, someone is online of comes on when text, for say rock they may need to sms 5 ppl before getting the def fleet
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 21:34   #89
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Yes and it wasnt far off that for spore, an alliance half the size. I think it can be argued, the less active the alliance, the more costs. For vikings, someone is online of comes on when text, for say rock they may need to sms 5 ppl before getting the def fleet
Id say that SMS for a alliance like Ultores r45-49 and FAnG R45-R46 and R49 would be far higher than just 50 Euros. I dont realy remeber, but i donated like 70 euros to the ODDR sms fund, and that was like more or less 1/2 to 3/4 of our normal costs.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 21:36   #90
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Yes and it wasnt far off that for spore, an alliance half the size. I think it can be argued, the less active the alliance, the more costs. For vikings, someone is online of comes on when text, for say rock they may need to sms 5 ppl before getting the def fleet
Then by your logic rock was the most active alliance of us 3 since we had 0 sms cost
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 21:44   #91
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I don't see either 1) this will help, or 2) why it should even be like that.

At the moment we have approx 600 playing accounts. Why should an alliance need 10% of a whole games member base, just to be competitive?

That just cant work out
1) bigger defense pool, more alliance member interaction,
2) Because having half a tag makes your members more an easier target just because some HCs aren't prepared to share power.

Same time I'm not in favour of raising the ally limit
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 22:13   #92
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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1) bigger defense pool, more alliance member interaction,
2) Because having half a tag makes your members more an easier target just because some HCs aren't prepared to share power.

Same time I'm not in favour of raising the ally limit
If tag sizes were dropped to 40 then a 30 man tag wouldn't be half a tag, it would 3/4 full and only 10 members short of a full tag
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 22:48   #93
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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I actually think what Forest is getting at is that by having a tag challenging for the win there is an emphasis to have lots of funds available for sms/call bot. As your intentions are higher and the need for response higher. From what mpulse said sms is about £50 a round in Vikings and call bot £20 that is a lot to put in for no reward
a) Use Whatspp for sms (free to send messages).
b) If coded correctly, a callbot will cost £10 a round.
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Unread 1 Nov 2013, 23:22   #94
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

A) not everyone has a smartphone/what'sapp

B) please make your bot open source so the community have a properly coded bot
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Unread 12 Nov 2013, 23:25   #95
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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A) not everyone has a smartphone/what'sapp
We all know the liths just use VNC anyway, and the rest surely got smartphones?
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Unread 13 Nov 2013, 00:45   #96
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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We all know the liths just use VNC anyway, and the rest surely got smartphones?
This game isn't played exclusively by western society. Look at Nelito for example, his country can't even keep an electricity supply going
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Unread 13 Nov 2013, 02:11   #97
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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EG add Whatsapp functionality (free), a decent callbot function (maximum of £10 per round).
WhatsApp sounds nice on paper, but to integrate it properly into tools, you are basically hacking it, which is illegal.

I have looked at WhatsApp many times and I am yet to find a 100% legal way of integrating it with other systems (i.e. IRC)/

Yes, I know it is easy and bloody obvious how to do it, but the system is essentially hacking (it is just that WhatsApp has comically incompetent encryption).
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Unread 13 Nov 2013, 04:50   #98
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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WhatsApp sounds nice on paper, but to integrate it properly into tools, you are basically hacking it, which is illegal.

I have looked at WhatsApp many times and I am yet to find a 100% legal way of integrating it with other systems (i.e. IRC)/

Yes, I know it is easy and bloody obvious how to do it, but the system is essentially hacking (it is just that WhatsApp has comically incompetent encryption).
Explain exactly what you're "hacking". Many alliances have a whatsapp bot.
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Unread 13 Nov 2013, 06:59   #99
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Explain exactly what you're "hacking". Many ally its set up is illegal iances have a whatsapp bot.
I guess he means the way merlin whatsapp bot is against the whatsapp rules, and that afaik the wa
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Unread 13 Nov 2013, 08:39   #100
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Re: Round 53 incomming stats

The wa.
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