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Unread 14 Jul 2013, 03:46   #51
Nightwolf
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
After it became posibole for every active cynical bastard to run a alliance wich could tip the scale in any round on what alliance wins or not PA was realy in theory dead.
We need bigger alliances, 60 tag limit is waaaaaay to little. This is a major part of the problem, if not the only.
Bigger allies need stronger leadership, and it requires more of the HCs to just avoid civil war. There will be no room for the "all about me" HCs in big gals.
You do understand everybody is ignoring your suggestion of bigger this and bigger that for a reason?
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Unread 14 Jul 2013, 14:58   #52
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Nightwolf View Post
You do understand everybody is ignoring your suggestion of bigger this and bigger that for a reason?
Cus they are clueless.
They dont know what this game needs, and theyve been doing their best to try ruining this game for everyone else but themself.
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Unread 14 Jul 2013, 18:37   #53
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Cus they are clueless.
They dont know what this game needs, and theyve been doing their best to try ruining this game for everyone else but themself.
they are not clueless, they are more or less ignorant. most of them have been playing for so long, that they don't think it will ever going to be better. ergo, they just try to make it fun for themselfs. i dont blame them, never have i tried to do so, but it isn't the way to make the game any more exciting.

neither have i seen the game developers doing anything new, like trying to get it integrated into or facebook or an iOs/android app...

i think at this moment, every suggestion to make the game any better are welcome and comments like:

Quote:
You do understand everybody is ignoring your suggestion of bigger this and bigger that for a reason?
aren't helping a bit...
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Unread 14 Jul 2013, 19:21   #54
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by on99 View Post
they are not clueless, they are more or less ignorant. most of them have been playing for so long, that they don't think it will ever going to be better. ergo, they just try to make it fun for themselfs. i dont blame them, never have i tried to do so, but it isn't the way to make the game any more exciting.

neither have i seen the game developers doing anything new, like trying to get it integrated into or facebook or an iOs/android app...

i think at this moment, every suggestion to make the game any better are welcome and comments like:



aren't helping a bit...
The only thing that has kept PA alive is its name and legacy.
There is no chance in hell for new players to get into the game without being very lucky and meeting the right people ingal.
We need bigger tags, we need to remove prelaunch option for attack, and we need to get rid of the people who keep comming up with these elitsm change suggestion.

The PA crew got no balls, they keep with the current PL system and BP/exiling system because they are to scared to lose a few players who says they will quit if anything is changed.
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Unread 14 Jul 2013, 21:43   #55
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by on99 View Post
they are not clueless, they are more or less ignorant. most of them have been playing for so long, that they don't think it will ever going to be better. ergo, they just try to make it fun for themselfs. i dont blame them, never have i tried to do so, but it isn't the way to make the game any more exciting.

neither have i seen the game developers doing anything new, like trying to get it integrated into or facebook or an iOs/android app...

i think at this moment, every suggestion to make the game any better are welcome and comments like:



aren't helping a bit...
I actually PMed Appocomaster and pointed out this thread, thank you very much.

Also when we are discussing the unhitability of certain galaxies increasing the size of galaxies would be rather counterproductive, no? Not every suggestion is better. Things can always get worse. B-Butch3r is always just screaming random sh1t without backing anything up. Bigger tags, bigger galaxies? How is that going to make the game better? :/
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Unread 14 Jul 2013, 22:22   #56
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Nightwolf View Post
I actually PMed Appocomaster and pointed out this thread, thank you very much.

Also when we are discussing the unhitability of certain galaxies increasing the size of galaxies would be rather counterproductive, no? Not every suggestion is better. Things can always get worse. B-Butch3r is always just screaming random sh1t without backing anything up. Bigger tags, bigger galaxies? How is that going to make the game better? :/
Atleast you could have someone to interact with 24/7 when you are online
This is what made PA great, and this is what keeps a lot of players still tied to the game, the social part of it. Its a team game, it will always be a team game, keep decreasing the teams to adapt to a shrinking playerbase and you will kill the game.
Ive backed up my tag limit idea in the suggestion section, where people managed to get the tag limit down, and the arguments is still the same.
Though i think prelaunch is a bigger problem to the game than the tag limits atm, i Wonder when PA crew will understand its about time they remove this totaly useless, meaningless and idiotic feature. The only way i see PL would work with the game as it currently is, is if the incs pop up as eta 17 on the attacked planet screen if the fleet is PLed.
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Unread 14 Jul 2013, 23:14   #57
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Nightwolf View Post
I actually PMed Appocomaster and pointed out this thread, thank you very much.

Also when we are discussing the unhitability of certain galaxies increasing the size of galaxies would be rather counterproductive, no? Not every suggestion is better. Things can always get worse. B-Butch3r is always just screaming random sh1t without backing anything up. Bigger tags, bigger galaxies? How is that going to make the game better? :/
don't feel it that way, it was no personal attack by quoting your sentence. and if you did tried to get the staffs attention, i thank you for that.

the thing is, and what i'm most afraid of, is that the players who are making these friend-forts, will come with the most obvious reasoning and arguments like, we've seen this and that, nothing will change etc. etc., we now just play for fun and make the best out of it... at least that is what i see them thinking, and i don't see those arguements adding anything to this discussion.

maybe i'm a bit too premature... please correct me if i'm wrong and tell me the system isn't suitable for the declining player base as it is!
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Unread 15 Jul 2013, 00:50   #58
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by on99 View Post
don't feel it that way, it was no personal attack by quoting your sentence. and if you did tried to get the staffs attention, i thank you for that.

the thing is, and what i'm most afraid of, is that the players who are making these friend-forts, will come with the most obvious reasoning and arguments like, we've seen this and that, nothing will change etc. etc., we now just play for fun and make the best out of it... at least that is what i see them thinking, and i don't see those arguements adding anything to this discussion.

maybe i'm a bit too premature... please correct me if i'm wrong and tell me the system isn't suitable for the declining player base as it is!
I am all for change, as are most of us as far as I know. The change has to be positive though, or we will just be stuck with an even worse system.

Personally I like the idea of 3 person BPs and the removal of late starters. Or the ideas Appocomaster put forward.
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Unread 15 Jul 2013, 01:38   #59
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Re: Galaxy setups

No more galaxies, just lump all planets by alliances into clusters. This will eliminate the overhead of having to separate the two.
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Unread 15 Jul 2013, 12:14   #60
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by on99 View Post

neither have i seen the game developers doing anything new, like trying to get it integrated into or facebook or an iOs/android app...
we have very, very limited resources (basically it's one part time paid developer and myself in my free time; most of the PA team are full time employed.)

http://www.planetarion.com/news/news...-hour-15122012
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Unread 15 Jul 2013, 20:31   #61
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Re: Galaxy setups

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we have very, very limited resources (basically it's one part time paid developer and myself in my free time; most of the PA team are full time employed.)
i respect the effort put into this game by some people, but isn't it possible to reserve a part of the incomings for new developments? i mean, increase the upgrade credit with an extra quid and postpone the free rounds for a while. but ofcourse only when there is some perspective in the developent, else it is just a way to make the game more expensive...

i like the idea of an app giving notifications when something happens with your planet, galaxy or alliance. or at least the ability to turn these notifications on. not like with the email notifications we get right now, but in a way we can react to it by sending ships to a def call. i think there are alot of people playing this game who can come up with idea's. we just need the right people to help develop the game.
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Unread 15 Jul 2013, 20:40   #62
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Re: Galaxy setups

I don't think more ideas, or new ideas, will make one jot of difference.

At the end of the day, its the community that made this game great and it is the community that has destroyed it.

The game itself was never that interesting, without IRC it would have never taken off like it has for so long
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Unread 15 Jul 2013, 22:58   #63
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by on99 View Post
i respect the effort put into this game by some people, but isn't it possible to reserve a part of the incomings for new developments? i mean, increase the upgrade credit with an extra quid and postpone the free rounds for a while. but ofcourse only when there is some perspective in the developent, else it is just a way to make the game more expensive...

i like the idea of an app giving notifications when something happens with your planet, galaxy or alliance. or at least the ability to turn these notifications on. not like with the email notifications we get right now, but in a way we can react to it by sending ships to a def call. i think there are alot of people playing this game who can come up with idea's. we just need the right people to help develop the game.
The PA Team see and have access to none of the funding directly; my understanding is that the game roughly breaks even over the course of the year (when server/bandwidth /etc costs are taken into account).
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 00:55   #64
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
I'm happy to admit that the buddy pack / galaxy / exile system needs looking at.
Good start.

Quote:
However, firstly, having skimmed this thread, I must say that a lot of the "suggestions" have already been discussed and discarded due to fundamental flaws - e.g. capping galaxies means that new planets and exiles end up in new galaxies and get farmed to pieces, and then people quit.
The most enjoyable galaxy I was ever in was my first one, which was one of those where people supposedly quit. I am sure some do, but the root problem with PA is the attitude of both the community and PA-Team over the last decade. By having an attitude of "let's make it easy for new players", you (collectively) have largely killed the game. Crap like startup bonuses, overly cheap exile systems to let people bounce around until they get into a good galaxy, ridiculously large upgrade bonuses, game features that largely play the game for you and quests that give fairly high boosts with little tangible benefits to the community. All of these things have contributed to a game where anybody can make a decent planet with minimal effort and difficulty (look at Wishmaster last round, he freely admits he was only properly active for about a week). Whilst these features were put in with laudable aims (i.e. helping new players to get involved and join the community), the game's own charity is killing it. By making it so easy, there is no sense of achievement any more, it is like the UK welfare system, it has created a sense of entitlement to success within the community and those who work their bollocks off and try to achieve something good can look at their next-door neighbour and see they didn't bother and still achieved the same. When this is the case, why bother? You don't have to play the game any more, you are protected from the setbacks which just means that the successes and small victories against the evil goliaths no longer have meaning.


Quote:
A few points on the private/random split:
-Due to the fact that private galaxy planets are generally more active than randoms, 10/15 is too little of a divide for a private/random setup.
Worked OK at that before, but it can easily be tweaked.

Quote:
-Due to the fact that, even 15 can be abused due to the exile system, 10/15 is also potentially too big of a divide. This fundamentally flaws this setup
No, this means that the exile system is fundamentally flawed. You need to fix the problems not the symptoms.

Quote:
-Previous rounds using private/ random didn't cap random, so eventually private galaxies disbanded, causing big random galaxies which dominated the round
So do it the old way (which worked) and cap all galaxies (with whatever appropriate split there is) and give private galaxies an option of "accept/deny new signups" and only increase galaxy sizes as new planets signup, iterate through the galaxies that accept new signups and add them to those galaxies, increasing that galaxies maximum to match the galaxy size with the new signup. It's not hard.

Quote:
-I know that many people actually enjoyed the big (20+) planet galaxies as lots of people were met / new friendships formed, so from a social view i think it worked.
Yeah, with 30k players.

Quote:
On a "just cap all galaxy sizes":
-This doesn't work due to the aforementioned point about how you handle new signups / exiles and how they all end up dumped in inactive galaxies
-Also, you limit the amount of movement between galaxies (assuming that people want to exile) - you can't exile into a new place if no slots exist.
If you wanted, you could just make all the ranks on the universe page and dumps say #1, that way everybody could have what they want.

Alternatively, you could just accept that at times this game is supposed to be tough, it's a war game not the teddy bear's picnic! People have to lose, otherwise nobody can win, that means some rounds people get a shit deal, that just means that they have to do better next time and will come back determined to improve.

Quote:
1) it must allow galaxy sizes to be around 1/4 - 1/5 of the size of an alliance (for targets / claiming / etc).
Rubbish - where the hell did this arbitrary number come from? Don't try to dictate how alliances play the game, let us sort ourselves out, stop trying to make the game play itself for us. Make galaxies 1/10 the size of alliances and alliances aren't going to collapse, we can cope with attacking multiple targets you know! Smaller galaxies allow the game to be far more dynamic.

Quote:
2) it must handle very inactive people / new inactive signups (but still allow for e.g. covert ops planets) - something like the current auto exile/ wanted system
Make it less worthwhile to exile people and harder to exile yourself round and round until you reach the top galaxies. This reduces both the push and pull factors (i.e. it addresses the problems rather than just the symptoms).

Quote:
3) it must allow for some system to give a limited number of people quicker ETA to defend your planet
Oh how I miss clusters and the dynamics of cluster politics alongside alliance politics. That really used to draw people together and make the game interesting. Just think, with smaller galaxies, this could be brought back. [/sidepoint]


Basically, you REALLY need to stop the trend of making the game easy for new players out of a mistaken belief that is better. It always used to be a hard game and it grew like no other game had before. Look what's happened now, it's been ruined and all sense of achievement at small successes has been replaced with a sense of entitlement to large successes. Yes, some new players will find it tough and leave, but right now most find it to be shit and leave. I know which game I'd rather play. I don't play a war game to get easy wins all the time. Stop enabling "God Mode" for every planet and let people actually fight hard and get that great sense of achievement for that elusive victory!
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 01:05   #65
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Re: Galaxy setups

Ability to actually destroy someone's fleet would be awesome! It's the single biggest problem with combat in this game... There is no good way to significantly reduce enemy value, so the entire game degenerates into a roid race.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 01:49   #66
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Ability to actually destroy someone's fleet would be awesome! It's the single biggest problem with combat in this game... There is no good way to significantly reduce enemy value, so the entire game degenerates into a roid race.
That's true. The ship stats are frankly bizarre. I can't quite work out what the aim is with them, but it certainly seems to be attempting to achieve balance by putting a massive hole in everybody's fleets and making it so that everybody knows exactly who they can hit purely by race alone. Most of the round I didn't even need scans - without defence I could roid nearly every terran in the game, and I was a scanner and rarely t400 for value. What's that about?!?! It's as though someone has read "ship stats for dummies" and not finished reading it.:

Chapter 1: Providing 2 attacking classes per race.
Chapter 2: Providing a weakness in every race.
Chapter 3: Ensuing each race's weakness is targeted by another's strength.
Chapter 4: Ensuring each race's strength has another race's weakness to target.

Unfortunately they stopped reading there so they missed "Chapter 5: Achieving these through subtleties and providing dynamic options" and all the rest of the book that actually explained how to do it. Consequently we're left with the stats equivalent of The Da Vinci Code - at first glance it looks entertaining and intriguing, but once you start reading properly, you realise that it's one of the worst written pieces out there; you spend the whole time reading it grimacing about the crap literary quality and the tendency to tell you everything that has, will and is happening without you being able to do a damn thing about it because, despite what you thought when you picked it up, it's got huge holes and there is cock all you can do about it.

I really should stop ranting tonight.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 11:09   #67
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Re: Galaxy setups

There is only one way to really help newbies: spread the good players around and force them to work with newer and weaker players to survive. This in turn puts top players in positions of weakness, which means the game at the top is more dynamic.

So in that way I agree, planetarion has to be difficult to be good. In fact it probably has to be difficult to work properly, so players can't just game the mechanics and win: they need initiative and effort to do so.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 11:13   #68
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Re: Galaxy setups

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Ability to actually destroy someone's fleet would be awesome! It's the single biggest problem with combat in this game... There is no good way to significantly reduce enemy value, so the entire game degenerates into a roid race.
I still don't get why SK'ing people is frowned upon and the above is not
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 12:19   #69
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Re: Galaxy setups

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I still don't get why SK'ing people is frowned upon and the above is not
SKs shouldn't be frowned upon, it's part of the game. Some people just need to dry their eyes and grow some balls.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 15:42   #70
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Ability to actually destroy someone's fleet would be awesome! It's the single biggest problem with combat in this game... There is no good way to significantly reduce enemy value, so the entire game degenerates into a roid race.
Being difficult to destroy ships with the "Hide and Run" feature helps in extending the round and in people not abandoning it too early(as many do after a crash).
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 15:46   #71
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Being difficult to destroy ships with the "Hide and Run" feature helps in extending the round and in people not abandoning it too early(as many do after a crash).
Did you not read Bashar's post? Run and hide actually makes the game easier, not harder.We need things to make the game harder not easier. I don't object to run and hide per say, but it would really be nice if there were more effective ways to fleet catch people. Maybe less defensive salvage would be good, making it more costly to defend, I dunno. But the simple fact is it is very RARE for someone to loose a fleet these days, making the game very one dimensional.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 15:47   #72
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by fortran View Post
Being difficult to destroy ships with the "Hide and Run" feature helps in extending the round and in people not abandoning it too early(as many do after a crash).
Clearly if you were to remove the "hide and run" feature, you would have to adjust the stats to suit this better.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 15:49   #73
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Bashar View Post
SKs shouldn't be frowned upon, it's part of the game. Some people just need to dry their eyes and grow some balls.
SK isnt frowned upon, the rounds where there actualy is something going on, like a contest for top alliance, or a real war, SKing is being used as often as possibole.
Though these days its more important for certain allies to being smooth with everyone else, like they are walking on broken glass. Welcome to NAPtarion
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 18:36   #74
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Did you not read Bashar's post? Run and hide actually makes the game easier, not harder.We need things to make the game harder not easier. I don't object to run and hide per say, but it would really be nice if there were more effective ways to fleet catch people. Maybe less defensive salvage would be good, making it more costly to defend, I dunno. But the simple fact is it is very RARE for someone to loose a fleet these days, making the game very one dimensional.
LEss defensive salvage?

Please tell me you're kidding, its bad enough as it is. Morons who "dont care" can crash stupid things just to screw you over. You're punished enough by salvage as it is in the t20 you can barely afford to land decent defences.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 19:08   #75
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Re: Galaxy setups

Personally, I think it should be very hard to gain a lot of value through salvage. That said, the current salvage rates are quite punishing, and if anything, it might be good if they went up a little.
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 19:47   #76
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Personally, I think it should be very hard to gain a lot of value through salvage. That said, the current salvage rates are quite punishing, and if anything, it might be good if they went up a little.
I dont think you should be gaining but you should be breaking even...
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Unread 16 Jul 2013, 20:19   #77
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Re: Galaxy setups

Well, that's kind of a problem in a game like PA. In Starcraft (which was one of the main inspirations for PA), if you lose 60% of what your opponent is losing, generally speaking, you're way ahead. In PA, you have multiple opponents. Even if you lose only 30% of what one of your opponents is losing, you're way behind, because there's another opponent who lost nothing.

This is one of the main causes behind the current (though by no means new) climate of PA, wherein going to war almost always hurts you. This round has been one of the few in which wars somewhat paid off, because even if the 2 top alliances lost 20m score each, they would still be ahead of the number 3. And even this round, we see TGV creeping up on us. If Faceless and fANG had been bigger, ND and Ultores would not have been able to fight it out for as long as we did.

To counter this type of NAP culture, you want war to be a profitable affair. A chance to gain a lot of roids or salvage encourages alliances to fight, rather than out-farm, each other.

High salvage encourages war (which we want), but if it's easy to break even, it can't be hard to gain a lot of value either. This opens all kinds of avenues for cheating. It's no coincidence that we see almost no accusations of ship farming at round end any more; it's just not that feasible.

The only real solution to the above problem that I can think of is a hard cap. This makes it impossible to gain much fleet value through salvage. If you implement that, you can do anything you like with salvage rates, it won't cause cheating.

Quite frankly, I haven't played a non-EMP planet since r35 or so, so I don't know exactly how salvage is calculated nowadays. It's possible the salvage cap solution has already been implemented. If so, I see no reason to refrain from raising salvage by 5% or so.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 07:37   #78
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Re: Galaxy setups

How about we change the exponential increasing mining incoming to some sort of exponential decay. Make it more worth attacking simillar sized planets rather than roid farming small flies.

That should also solve the 2k roid count late signup in a fortress who even ends bigger than most players who put more effort in it.
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 10:07   #79
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Re: Galaxy setups

What do you mean by "exponential increasing mining income"?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 11:03   #80
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Re: Galaxy setups

mathematically it isnt an exponential grow in incoming but both the roid income and the bonus income you gain the more roids you have makes it so much harder to catch up.

if you, for example manage to get about 2k roids, and keep that for a few weeks, having full mining bonus, and keeping all fleets at home to defend ingal incomings, sending out an attack fleet once a week, still gives you more value than those struggling every day trying to get roids.

in my humble opinion, it should be more rewarding for attackers than keeping 2k/3k roids and defend that at all costs, because right now, that is far more rewarding.
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 11:23   #81
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Re: Galaxy setups

It isn't exponential in non mathematical terms either.. Just say it as it is, you want the linear mining income to instead be a exponential decay so people will be less worried about defense and attack more. Imo this would suck, as it will eventually just kill the defending part of pa. And eventually just have everyone going for the best offensive options. Hardcore planets / alliances should be rewarded good for defending as it's way more time consuming and work then prelaunchin a attack.
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 12:05   #82
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Re: Galaxy setups

What about multiple ticks combat instead of just 1 ticks of battle?
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 12:15   #83
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Re: Galaxy setups

it is a linear grow. true. the moment you have 2k roids isnt giving you incremental more resources than having 1k roids. i was wrong in that, i should have know. fact is that it gives you much more resources a tick when you are able to keep them.

unlike you, i think attacking should be better rewarded than defending. but ofcourse, it shouldnt be impossible to defend others
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 12:23   #84
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by on99
it is a linear grow. true. the moment you have 2k roids isnt giving you incremental more resources than having 1k roids. i was wrong in that, i should have know. fact is that it gives you much more resources a tick when you are able to keep them.

unlike you, i think attacking should be better rewarded than defending. but ofcourse, it shouldnt be impossible to defend others
It is far easier to organize attacks than defence already, why make it even easier for the people who spend a couple minutes in the evening setting up an attack?
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 12:44   #85
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Re: Galaxy setups

it are just aspects of the game i like to see differently. i personally like helping out with defense as much as attacking, but a good landing gives more joy. and to me, joy is an important part of a game.

the trend i notice is that defending and making a fort is much more rewarding than going to war with other alliances.
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 13:37   #86
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
What about multiple ticks combat instead of just 1 ticks of battle?
You're making me get all sentimental now :-(

I much preferred the multiple ticks, it meant a judgement call was needed over when to recall. It made the decision on whether to land/recall less black and white for both attack and defence.

I am fairly sure, from the discussions we are having here, we are basically saying "get rid of this PAX nonsense and let's go back to good old fashioned proper PA". I'm game!
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 13:38   #87
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Re: Galaxy setups

Asteroid scans and uninitiated asteroids anyone?

(those were the days, overkill incoming from massive planets that you could do nothing about, except scan for a load of roids and leave them uninitiated so you got the last laugh)
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 13:45   #88
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Re: Galaxy setups

Unitiated asteroids are not hard, they are just annoying.

Multi-tick combat is not hard, just requires activity.

PAX did some things wrong. By an large, though, it's been a positive change. Many, but not all, of the things PAX did wrong have been fixed over the years.
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Unread 17 Jul 2013, 14:50   #89
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Unitiated asteroids are not hard, they are just annoying.

Multi-tick combat is not hard, just requires activity.

PAX did some things wrong. By an large, though, it's been a positive change. Many, but not all, of the things PAX did wrong have been fixed over the years.
I think PaX/PaN was enjoyable at first, but i do miss the old multiple tick combat feature, cus it was more like a game that you actualy had to do something With back then, maybe it was good to stay for 1, 2 or 3 ticks, instead of LAND OR NO LAND.
Though i dunno how you could combine both the PaX-> features With multiple combat ticks :/
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Unread 29 Jul 2013, 17:03   #90
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Re: Galaxy setups

Game needs to be simple or people will not be willing to put much effort if they start playing ie they will quit fast. I dont think its needed to be more simple than this, just dont make it more complicate.

There has to be some balance with galaxies as stated before. As i see it atm we have maybe 5-10 galaxies who are contestants for top. They dont change bps and they are pretty much always with the same people. While i perfectly understand them and they did make the groups who put in more effort thatn the rest and go hard to earn the win and thats perfectly reasonable and withing game rules - it is killing the game.

I think it would be good to go with ~10 ppl private gals and ~20 ppl random gals. Exiles possible but not cheap. Late signup possible for both type of gals but in different ratio (maybe 2 for private and 1 for random).

There has to be more effective game that game handles inactives. Especially on start, which is crucial for every planet/galaxy. Ie they have to be moved to cluster 200 faster, or allow exiling faster then 48 ticks waiting period.

Havoc players - make separate signup for them, make them have to buy credit and upgrade in order to play it. Find some way to get them out of regular game where they are not contributing much or anything to their gals and they just wait havoc to play a bit for free.

My 2 cents for now, guess i`ll add more when it crosses my mind.
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Unread 11 Sep 2013, 17:57   #91
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Re: Galaxy setups

i 100% agree with bashar (and many others, good posts above me) here also.


the game needs to become 'hard' again. i don't believe pa-crew has bad intentions with the game, i just think they don't see how all these new features actually make it a worse game than it was.
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Unread 11 Sep 2013, 20:23   #92
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by KoeN View Post
i 100% agree with bashar (and many others, good posts above me) here also.


the game needs to become 'hard' again. i don't believe pa-crew has bad intentions with the game, i just think they don't see how all these new features actually make it a worse game than it was.
Your logic is, we should all revert back to the old school style of playing, but what you can't comprehend is the fact that technology has progressed so much in the past decade, that you won't expand on the playerbase if you keep to the simple, old school PA.

Also, most of us 'old school' players are much older and with jobs now, we don't have the time and energy as we did in our youth days.
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Unread 11 Sep 2013, 22:01   #93
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Your logic is, we should all revert back to the old school style of playing, but what you can't comprehend is the fact that technology has progressed so much in the past decade, that you won't expand on the playerbase if you keep to the simple, old school PA.

Also, most of us 'old school' players are much older and with jobs now, we don't have the time and energy as we did in our youth days.
I think you dont quite understand what he was saying tbh.
Its not about making the game itself more old fashion, but its about removing features that aint realy improving the game anymore.

Take prelaunch option for example.
Its the one option that makes the PaX/PaN bandwagon effect so hard to deal with for most people, you can launch a fleet 11 hours before the fleet is actualy visible on the target planets screen, perhaps showing the real ETA on JGPs/incomming screen would nerph the effect of this option.
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Unread 12 Sep 2013, 07:45   #94
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Re: Galaxy setups

I like how 20somethings are talking about their "youth days" and how they're "much older now".

All these young whippersnappers don't know how good they have it!
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Unread 12 Sep 2013, 08:09   #95
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by KoeN View Post
i 100% agree with bashar (and many others, good posts above me) here also.


the game needs to become 'hard' again. i don't believe pa-crew has bad intentions with the game, i just think they don't see how all these new features actually make it a worse game than it was.
Afaik - a big portion of current playerbase have aged just as much as PA. And, if we were to revert back to some sort of old school PA which require availability around the clock just to make it hard, then I would expect more would not be arsed to play again.
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Unread 12 Sep 2013, 16:04   #96
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Motti View Post
Afaik - a big portion of current playerbase have aged just as much as PA. And, if we were to revert back to some sort of old school PA which require availability around the clock just to make it hard, then I would expect more would not be arsed to play again.
Well if one had removed the PL, you wouldnt need to be avaible around the clock
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Unread 13 Sep 2013, 01:27   #97
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well if one had removed the PL, you wouldnt need to be avaible around the clock
They limited PL a bit some rounds ago - it had minimal effect from what I can recall.

Regardless, if you attack you delay as long as possible, get up at night or send really early.

Those who gotta def is more crippled really, as you have no chance to prepare for incs. So I would say, removing PL would not be beneficial at all.

Rather incorporate a tweak on inc scans - that show you actual LT, then it is up to the player to either

- Have amps enough to inc scan
- Try and PL defence (and hope attacker don't change LT later on)
- Hope someone bothers to help you

Keeping PL, but adding that extra bit on inc scans would be nicer. Adds a little tactical twist, fake LT or what not, or it can give disting a boost.
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Unread 13 Sep 2013, 03:05   #98
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by Motti View Post
They limited PL a bit some rounds ago - it had minimal effect from what I can recall.

Regardless, if you attack you delay as long as possible, get up at night or send really early.

Those who gotta def is more crippled really, as you have no chance to prepare for incs. So I would say, removing PL would not be beneficial at all.

Rather incorporate a tweak on inc scans - that show you actual LT, then it is up to the player to either

- Have amps enough to inc scan
- Try and PL defence (and hope attacker don't change LT later on)
- Hope someone bothers to help you

Keeping PL, but adding that extra bit on inc scans would be nicer. Adds a little tactical twist, fake LT or what not, or it can give disting a boost.
Either they gotta remove it totaly, or they gotta set it so that we can see the LTs.
The PA crew is too stubborn.
They Limited the PLs a few rounds ago, and i dont realy know what the effect of this was, but i do remeber someone said they would give a review from inc stats at the end of the round, perhaps CT?
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Unread 15 Sep 2013, 00:26   #99
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Re: Galaxy setups

Cant believe i've read all this crap again. And is there none of you that have thought that neither of the suggestions would do anything? There will always be some galaxies that come better out than others.

Even if its limited at 8 or at 15. There simply just isn't possible to hard code balanced galaxies, so just drop the subject.

Im fine with some changes in galaxy sizes, but if you honestly think it will change the outcome on how some galaxies gets stronger than others, then i just have to say: wishful thinking and so far out from anything thats logical.

Only way for a "balanced universe" is pure random galaxies, which will make it pure luck based if you get a good galaxy or not, but implenting that would probably lower the game playerbase drasticly more. Which personally is something i dont want.

Lowering alliance sizes even further from 60 on the other hand, if we drop galaxy sizes from the 12 - 15 that has been going lately, is something i'd like to see. More alliances means it would be harder for those influential players to avoid incs forever, and the overall politics would be alot more fluid. Than just the same crap round after round. Don't need intel anymore to know who sleeps with each other.
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Unread 15 Sep 2013, 15:57   #100
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Re: Galaxy setups

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
Cant believe i've read all this crap again. And is there none of you that have thought that neither of the suggestions would do anything? There will always be some galaxies that come better out than others.

Even if its limited at 8 or at 15. There simply just isn't possible to hard code balanced galaxies, so just drop the subject.

Im fine with some changes in galaxy sizes, but if you honestly think it will change the outcome on how some galaxies gets stronger than others, then i just have to say: wishful thinking and so far out from anything thats logical.

Only way for a "balanced universe" is pure random galaxies, which will make it pure luck based if you get a good galaxy or not, but implenting that would probably lower the game playerbase drasticly more. Which personally is something i dont want.

Lowering alliance sizes even further from 60 on the other hand, if we drop galaxy sizes from the 12 - 15 that has been going lately, is something i'd like to see. More alliances means it would be harder for those influential players to avoid incs forever, and the overall politics would be alot more fluid. Than just the same crap round after round. Don't need intel anymore to know who sleeps with each other.
Im pretty sure that this discussion started out With how the same players get into the same gal every round, and this gal ends in the top.
Its not due to activity and skill, its due to how the exile system and the political scheme is working now days with smaller tags playing for planet ranks instead of the good of the game or the alliance.
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