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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 01:40   #1
Clogg
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BP exile

I check my planet and I find this link in my mail?

http://www.planetarion.com/questionnaires/questionnaire.php?3

What is the use of this anyway?

The change of alliance size mid round proves already that you are neglacting the wishes of the majority and all of a sudden there is a new questionaire for someting else :S

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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 01:43   #2
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Re: BP exile

I think they are trying to improve on their mistake, which is good...learn from your mistakes and such..
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 01:46   #3
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clogg
The chaange of alliance size mid round proves already that you are neglacting the wishes of the majority
And you speak for the majority?

Arrogance++
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 02:49   #4
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
And you speak for the majority?

Arrogance++
I'm not implying that the majority is with me. That isn't even the case here. The case here is, why do we even bother having a questionaire when the results don't matter. On the alliance size limit the majority voted for 50, remember how vast that got changed?

So how great are the odds that this questionaire will be consulted?
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 03:05   #5
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
I think they are trying to improve on their mistake, which is good...learn from your mistakes and such..
More like trying to make up for one **** up. instead of another..

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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 03:05   #6
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Re: BP exile

they should be neglegable, Design by committee never works - They should stick to the plan for this round and change for next if necessary.
Those with inactive people in buddy packs should have chosen who could join them better. i dont have much in the way of sympathy for them.
Remember - they CHOSE these people. they werent forced on them like inactives in galaxies are, or the way the alliance size limit was.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 03:10   #7
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
I think they are trying to improve on their mistake, which is good...learn from your mistakes and such..
It's always good to make up for a mistake. But there's been no mistake as I see it. Like Phil said, they choose to play with these people themselves.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 10:02   #8
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Re: BP exile

What was the reasoning behind refusing bp members to self exile? I cant see any reason to implement such a rule in the first place.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 10:46   #9
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
It's primary aim is to create a stable core for galaxies. It also has some nice side-effects, like having a trade-off between things and stuff. read up and you'll get a clue.

As Heartless said in another thread and i totally agree to the none exiling rule to be honest. As ive stated before, if you have chosen to be with these people you should remain with them. Its your bad judgement im afraid, live with it.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 11:14   #10
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Re: BP exile

That ppl in BPs can't be exiled or selfexile also effects others.
Picture a gal were the randoms are active and playing well together, but the BPs either are completly inactive or all but 1-2 ppl in the BPs are. Sure the randoms can just exile, and pray they get into another active gal, but kinda sad that ppl allready having a good gal got to exile just caus of inactive planets they can't get rid of.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 11:20   #11
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Re: BP exile

if you chose your buddys your stuck with em for the rd
if they go inactive on ya tough shit be more careful next time on who you pick
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 13:24   #12
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
they should be neglegable, Design by committee never works - They should stick to the plan for this round and change for next if necessary.
Those with inactive people in buddy packs should have chosen who could join them better. i dont have much in the way of sympathy for them.
Remember - they CHOSE these people. they werent forced on them like inactives in galaxies are, or the way the alliance size limit was.
I bp with just one friend and we both got stuck in a galaxy of inactive randoms, the next most active planet being a scanner... So basically I chose one person and we cant base a good co-operative gal on that. Exiling other people just isnt working, if good players land in our gal they self exile without a second look ,and even thats rare.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 13:27   #13
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Re: BP exile

BP non exile is bad.
Exile costs is bad.
Not being able to delete is bad.
Changing rules mid round is TERRIBLE.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 15:20   #14
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chax
BP non exile is bad.
Exile costs is bad.
Not being able to delete is bad.
Changing rules mid round is TERRIBLE.
What about introducing "enter your desired coords:" on signup, optionally you can enter up to 500 coords for all your friends / alliance mates / bloc partners. Guess everyone is happy then.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 15:23   #15
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Re: BP exile

Bp non exile is a way as we explained to keep a balanced gal without just leaving it
Exile Costs is high to stop people being selfish jumping from gal to gal
Not being able to delete is there to not abuse it by just delelting and re-signing up (do i really need to justify that one btw?)
And i do actually agree for once on your third option edditing mistakes in mid round is terrible, but if your reffering to 'rules' as in MH rules (the example was the support planet rule change last round) then thats just tough as there allowed to do that.
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 16:40   #16
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Re: BP exile

To be honest people were aware of the buddy pack rules upon sign up and they were aware of the fact that you wont be able to exhile from the buddy pack.

Buddy packing is joining together with mates to play PA. And if those mates cant be bothered or too lazy then there not great mates. Theres the arguement of 2 people packing and ending up in a poor galaxy but again you have to accept the rule. If PA Team had said a few days ago that your not allowed to exhile from a buddy pack then yes, people have the right to be pissed off.
You also have the flip side of people in a decent gal with decent players and there not complaining

Moral of the story : Keep your friends close but your enemies closers
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 17:38   #17
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudge
To be honest people were aware of the buddy pack rules upon sign up and they were aware of the fact that you wont be able to exhile from the buddy pack.

Buddy packing is joining together with mates to play PA. And if those mates cant be bothered or too lazy then there not great mates. Theres the arguement of 2 people packing and ending up in a poor galaxy but again you have to accept the rule. If PA Team had said a few days ago that your not allowed to exhile from a buddy pack then yes, people have the right to be pissed off.
You also have the flip side of people in a decent gal with decent players and there not complaining

Moral of the story : Keep your friends close but your enemies closers
I was under the impression me and my single bp mate would be joined with a bp of three people, was i just completely wrong or were we just unlucky?
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 17:50   #18
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Front Page
Buddy packs will be a maximum 5 as in the previous round, and galaxys will consist of up to 5 buddy packed people (1x5, 1x4, 1x3+1x2, 2x2).
Not unlucky, just with another buddypack of 2 or 3 people
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 20:32   #19
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
they should be neglegable, Design by committee never works - They should stick to the plan for this round and change for next if necessary.
Those with inactive people in buddy packs should have chosen who could join them better. i dont have much in the way of sympathy for them.
Remember - they CHOSE these people. they werent forced on them like inactives in galaxies are, or the way the alliance size limit was.
actually... the BP I have a problem with is not my own ( I love them to death ) , but the other BP we ended up with, and no, I did not choose that BP, they were forced on us like inactives in galaxies are.

I have to agree on the mid-round changes though, just stick to the plan, do better next round. It's not some kind of beta we are playing is it?

to be on topic though: what's so wrong about a poll? it's a nice way to try and get opinions from the players that don't feel the need to post about it on here
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Unread 11 Feb 2006, 20:44   #20
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudge
Not unlucky, just with another buddypack of 2 or 3 people
no, we didnt land with a another bp of 2 or 3. Me and my friend are the only bp members in the gal
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 00:11   #21
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
Bp non exile is a way as we explained to keep a balanced gal without just leaving it.
Obviously the powers that be while saying thus earlier might be changing their mind about this, so referring back to that is rather pointless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
Exile Costs is high to stop people being selfish jumping from gal to gal
Not being able to delete is there to not abuse it by just delelting and re-signing up (do i really need to justify that one btw?).
Did I say self exile? I'm talking about exiling people you don't want. That should be up to the galaxy, and I think it should be free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
And i do actually agree for once on your third option edditing mistakes in mid round is terrible, but if your reffering to 'rules' as in MH rules (the example was the support planet rule change last round) then thats just tough as there allowed to do that.
[quote=Willzzz]
I'm referring to nothign special, certainly nothing last round as I wasnt' here then, but then again I'm referring to everything.
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 00:50   #22
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Re: BP exile

My prediction tick 500, pa team announces bp members can exile. Then tick 501 people complain about how expensive it is. Tick 502 people complain that we have some shit galaxies and some uber galaxies. Tick 503 people carry on bitching.
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 01:33   #23
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chax
Obviously the powers that be while saying thus earlier might be changing their mind about this, so referring back to that is rather pointless.
on the other hand they may not; merely judging public opinion on it.

Personally i would consider it a disaster if they allowed this game to be designed and administrated on the whims of a volatile community.
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 01:40   #24
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
on the other hand they may not; merely judging public opinion on it.

Personally i would consider it a disaster if they allowed this game to be designed and administrated on the whims of a volatile community.
Which is why I said might. not are.

And changing mid round is usually bad. But the whim of the community should be followed, or there wont' be one
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 01:43   #25
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Re: BP exile

the problem is the community rarely knows what it really wants as a whole
there are seperate groups, each wanting different things.
Pateam should not bow to the whims of a minority, regardless of how vocal they are to make midround changes.
If anything - they should wait till this round is over before doing anything and incorporate feedback as part of the next rounds design
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 03:36   #26
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filth
no, we didnt land with a another bp of 2 or 3. Me and my friend are the only bp members in the gal
To be honest, I suspect the shuffler to have a bug or two. So far everyone in my galaxy complained about "wtf is our bp?", and judging by other galaxies it is likely that there is a bug with the shuffler (it's a rather complex algorithm by pure logical design, which also increases likeliness of bugs).

Also, what Phil said.
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 12:44   #27
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clogg
I'm not implying that the majority is with me. That isn't even the case here. The case here is, why do we even bother having a questionaire when the results don't matter. On the alliance size limit the majority voted for 50, remember how vast that got changed?

So how great are the odds that this questionaire will be consulted?
Peoples views change. Pre-round views are unlikely to be the same as mid-round views. The same people who voted for 50 were the ones asking for it to be changed.

And you were implying the majority is with you, if you weren't intending to then you need to learn a bit about communication. Whilst doing that, might be an idea to learn about avoiding bullshit.
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 13:21   #28
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Re: BP exile

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Originally Posted by Bashar
The same people who voted for 50 were the ones asking for it to be changed.

No... Alot of them still wants and wanted 50 limit.


add to the insult that alot of the lower ranked alliances was never asked about this change and theese are now slowing behind because of lack of members. The decision to increase the memberrate was ONLY benefical for the top 10 alliances.
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 22:10   #29
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Re: BP exile

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Originally Posted by Chax
Did I say self exile? I'm talking about exiling people you don't want. That should be up to the galaxy, and I think it should be free.
So should the galaxy vote on the exile? (If so, who would decide who to select for an exile vote?)

Should that be ALL the galaxy? (One inactive player would mean an exile was impossible).

Perhaps just the Ministers should vote? (Say hello to BPs ruthlessly exiling "lesser" players until they were replaced by newly signed up experienced players - especially in the early stages).

Exiling has always been a problem and will probably always be open to some form of abuse. Let's not forget that the current restrictions on exiling were a direct result of the abuse of ther system in the last round (and previous rounds) when many semi-active players were "deserted" by all of their "actives".
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Unread 12 Feb 2006, 22:20   #30
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Re: BP exile

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Originally Posted by Heartless
To be honest, I suspect the shuffler to have a bug or two. So far everyone in my galaxy complained about "wtf is our bp?", and judging by other galaxies it is likely that there is a bug with the shuffler (it's a rather complex algorithm by pure logical design, which also increases likeliness of bugs).

Also, what Phil said.
the shuffler algorithm is pretty simple really and broken down into stages, so any bugs would be easy to locate in the correct stage. I doubt there is a bug simply becuase no one has actually reported one in the last two rounds, or the speedgames or betas. It is possible for a buddy pack to be by itself in certain circustances e.g. a lot more bps of size 3 than of size 2.
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Unread 13 Feb 2006, 00:12   #31
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Re: BP exile

Personally, I think it's unrealistic to assume that you can know what happens 2+ months in advanced. Your friend commits sucidie, a family member dies, you get your internet cut off for two weeks. There's many things in life that can't plan for that can completely screw up a buddy pack or galaxy, and surely it's only fair if someone's going to stop playing to be able to get rid of that player?
At the moment, ~60 (5%) of the people in buddy packs would be auto exiled for not having logged in for 3 days. One of the only real rule changes I'd consider suggesting implementing, which wouldn't directly affect the no exile rule, would be to change the auto exile rule so that buddy packed members can be auto exiled if not in vacation mode if they've been inactive for 3 days. If people hated their galaxy enough, they could not play for 3 days and risk their planet being trashed and whatever defence their galaxy might get them for a "free" exile - I've certainly considered this, but as everyone else can do it as well already I don't see that it's a huge problem.
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Unread 13 Feb 2006, 00:40   #32
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Re: BP exile

Well appoco, we all know losing 3 days isn't that harsh of a price.
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Unread 13 Feb 2006, 00:42   #33
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Well appoco, we all know losing 3 days isn't that harsh of a price.
Well, the formula adds on a day each time you do it.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. 3 days can be a long time in Planetarion.
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Unread 13 Feb 2006, 04:40   #34
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Personally, I think it's unrealistic to assume that you can know what happens 2+ months in advanced. Your friend commits sucidie, a family member dies, you get your internet cut off for two weeks. There's many things in life that can't plan for that can completely screw up a buddy pack or galaxy, and surely it's only fair if someone's going to stop playing to be able to get rid of that player?
I think this is the best argument for a midround change. Things happen in Real life that we have no control over so being totally locked into a BP is more unfair than a midround change in my opinion. I think there should be some kind of out even if you have to let your planet get trashed for 3 days to get out of a bad galaxy.

A good time to go idle would be having your fleet caught and losing most of your roids just make sure you have those core extraction branches researched. Set your engineering priorities to Mining, Security, and then production. And get an extra long research started before you go idle. With luck you may have enough res when you get back to build a decent fleet.
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Unread 13 Feb 2006, 11:06   #35
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Re: BP exile

Personally im againt the change. Changing the goal posts mid round because a team chose the wrong players isnt really fair on the people who have played and planned their round according to the specs they were given at the beggining.

As phil has said running the game around a volatile vocal group of people is never going to work. You can never keep everyone happy. So do you just keep giving into their demands? This rule was here and the start. Everyone was able to see the way things were going to be played out. Just because people made bad choices doesnt mean their should be a rule change for them.

Should we change peoples Race on whim? Just because they chose the wrong one.

If their BP goes inactive then that there fault. They felt the benifits of being in a BP far out weighed the risks. They were wrong.

The only people i feel sorry for are the randoms stuck in a decent gal with a couple of inactive buddys.

And for this reason i would be willing to allow inactive buddys to be autoexiled after 7 days of not loggin in.
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Unread 13 Feb 2006, 20:03   #36
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Re: BP exile

why not allowing either a BP to vote out one of their inactive planets or to give the GC the option to exile a complete BP or the GC setting an exile on a BP member, and then all of the BP have to agree on the exile as well.
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Unread 13 Feb 2006, 20:04   #37
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostbeule
why not allowing either a BP to vote out one of their inactive planets or to give the GC the option to exile a complete BP or the GC setting an exile on a BP member, and then all of the BP have to agree on the exile as well.
Because moving buddy packs of up to 5 out of a galaxy change their sizes hugely. It just won't work, tbh.
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Unread 14 Feb 2006, 00:53   #38
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Re: BP exile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Personally, I think it's unrealistic to assume that you can know what happens 2+ months in advanced. Your friend commits sucidie, a family member dies, you get your internet cut off for two weeks. There's many things in life that can't plan for that can completely screw up a buddy pack or galaxy, and surely it's only fair if someone's going to stop playing to be able to get rid of that player?
At the moment, ~60 (5%) of the people in buddy packs would be auto exiled for not having logged in for 3 days. One of the only real rule changes I'd consider suggesting implementing, which wouldn't directly affect the no exile rule, would be to change the auto exile rule so that buddy packed members can be auto exiled if not in vacation mode if they've been inactive for 3 days. If people hated their galaxy enough, they could not play for 3 days and risk their planet being trashed and whatever defence their galaxy might get them for a "free" exile - I've certainly considered this, but as everyone else can do it as well already I don't see that it's a huge problem.
All things that you could have thought of in advance. So why even put the no BP exile in the rules then?
My main concern here is breaking / changing the rules while the round is already running. I think PA team should give themselves an iron (or perhaps even a golden) rule NOT to change ANY rule during the round.
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Unread 14 Feb 2006, 02:46   #39
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Re: BP exile

The only thing is, not all bp problems are necessarily related to inactivity. My buddypack fell apart because of an argument two others got into. My GC asked PAteam to mark his account for deletion and he signed up for a new one. My entire gal fell apart because of it, and another member also went to PAteam and asked for the same.

It's true, volatile people are not the best to be making important decisions. I just wish that PAteam wouldn't be so lax on individuals while being so rigid on the masses. What my bp members did was selfish and unfair. My ex-GC is now playing a different planet of a different race in a larger galaxy, and I would just like to have the opportunity to do the same without having to delete my account and start over. I suppose the easy thing to do would just be to appeal to PAteam personally...
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