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Unread 28 Jan 2006, 20:50   #1
Intruder
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Red face Intel system??

Well, prolly most would mind to say how their intel department works, but i had this idea last rnd and suggested my ally to use it and now im curious if anything like that is used on another allies..
The thing is i thought instead using normal ways to collect intel ( buddypack mates, intel leak from friends on other allies) the ally build one sms database. All members should every round submit sms of their galmates and known players and real nicks with it. When the new rnd begins, ally would compare the sms DB with overview/forum info and get real nicks from PA players faster.

I thought my idea was original but then i dont know and i would like to know if something more clever is used. Ofc many would mind release info but i know many here knows how enemy allies gather intel and wouoldnt mind expose that in public
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Unread 28 Jan 2006, 23:44   #2
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Re: Intel system??

Vengeance does not use an SMS database, and I find it abhorrent that any other alliance would use it. The mobile phone/SMS is a link to our personal lives, it is part of everything we do. For an alliance to hold a list of mobile numbers without a person having agreed to that by supplying their number to that alliance is totally, totally wrong.

If an alliance is currently using one, then I believe that they should stop. I would not want any other alliance to hold my number, and that's why I will never hold anyone else's. It's not all about winning, and winning should not come at any price. Planetarion players should have some liberties, and the right not to have their SMS number kept in an alliance's external database is one of them.
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 00:11   #3
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Re: Intel system??

/me thinks furball has been getting random phone calls at 6 AM

I would clump this in with things like support planets as a tactic that may be or have been useful and techincally legal, but is morally suspect and against the spirit of the game. I like to play hard without playing dirty.

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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 00:36   #4
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Re: Intel system??

I agree with the comments on the immorality of the idea, but I also think the legality of it is dubious. I am not entirely certain, but as the information is personal and not intended to be used in such a database, it could well be illegal under both/either the Data Protection Act and the Computer Misuse Act.
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 01:11   #5
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Re: Intel system??

SMS are private information and like details such as player's addresses, should be kept as such.
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 04:37   #6
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Re: Intel system??

Then people should be more careful as to who they give theirs out to. Most gals i've been in put it up on the overview screen for anyone to see.

But other than the small possible legality issue, Intruder has a good idea :-)
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 15:00   #7
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Re: Intel system??

I know from our (ROCKs) close links to TFD (this was before they reformed and then merged into another alliance a few rounds ago) that they were always talking about making such a thing but to my knowledge they never did.

Another interesting thing that ROCK command came up with a few rounds ago (i think more as a joke than anything else) was a program that took the planet dump, you input the alliance score, size and it would search through all the possible combinations to come up with a likely co-ords list (taking into account already known co-ords etc...)

I cant remember the exact figures (we actually had a very basic version of this running at one point) but it took 17minutes to find a 2 member alliance, 2hours for a 3 member, 1 day for 4 member alliance etc... someone calculated it would have taken about 40years to calculate a 60member alliance! As you can probably imagine that project ended there! lol
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 16:02   #8
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJet
I cant remember the exact figures (we actually had a very basic version of this running at one point) but it took 17minutes to find a 2 member alliance, 2hours for a 3 member, 1 day for 4 member alliance etc... someone calculated it would have taken about 40years to calculate a 60member alliance! As you can probably imagine that project ended there! lol
If it took 17 minutes to find a 2 member alliance then there is something quite seriously wrong with the algorithm used to do it, was it reading/writing directly from a file for the planet dumps instead of caching the planet data in memory?
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 16:08   #9
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJet
Another interesting thing that ROCK command came up with a few rounds ago (i think more as a joke than anything else) was a program that took the planet dump, you input the alliance score, size and it would search through all the possible combinations to come up with a likely co-ords list (taking into account already known co-ords etc...)

I cant remember the exact figures (we actually had a very basic version of this running at one point) but it took 17minutes to find a 2 member alliance, 2hours for a 3 member, 1 day for 4 member alliance etc... someone calculated it would have taken about 40years to calculate a 60member alliance! As you can probably imagine that project ended there! lol
See also this discussion.

The version I made did up to 5-6 man alliances in reasonable time iirc. I'm pretty sure that given a week of coding time I could solve the problem for alliances of size 50, but the solution would include an alliance of my own entering intel and recording (some) interactions. Or perhaps a distributed version running on all the members' machines
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 20:13   #10
Intruder
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Re: Intel system??

Well, actually my question about this subject was intented to gather info about some commom intel gathering method for a more complete alliance manual for beginners who might insist on doin their own ally. The morality of handling info who is posted on public wasnt exactly the point

The sms stuff is posted on galaxy overview. By doin that obviously ppl are considering have this info public. If his opinion is different, just dont give sms info.

Funny thing seeing talks about morality of the method. I posted here cos i know some allies arealdy have the same idea.
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 20:20   #11
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intruder
The sms stuff is posted on galaxy overview. By doin that obviously ppl are considering have this info public. If his opinion is different, just dont give sms info.
Galaxy forums aren't public.
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 20:42   #12
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Galaxy forums aren't public.
Yes they are. Any random stranger might exile into the galaxy.
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 21:23   #13
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Re: Intel system??

I have no idea how it was written or anything, i could give the exact figures but i dont have access to the part of the forum that it resides in...
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 23:21   #14
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Re: Intel system??

First, a lot of times contact info isnt put on the gal notes page, but passed arround in private.... i suspect abusing this trust doesnt bother eX or anyone else who uses this tactic.

Even if it is posted for the gal to see the information is given within a selected environment, it is never intended to be shared by people from the gal with people outside the gal (their alliance).

An example.... if i post my phone number to something, say a small group of banks offering educational loans, it doesnt mean that one of those banks has the right to take my number and sell it (or gain some sort of advantage from sharing it) to anyone who wants to call and try to sell me everything from vacation packages to black market viagra.
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 23:28   #15
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Re: Intel system??

Besides, its not much of a jump from storing phone numbers to use for IDing people to starting to use them to disrupt sleeping habits and hurt their performance... a disgusting tactic that has been used on a couple 1upers in the past. If the first is ok, whats wrong with the second?
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Unread 29 Jan 2006, 23:31   #16
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Yes they are. Any random stranger might exile into the galaxy.
The game itself isn't public I mean. One of those pointless clauses in the EULA I've never bothered reading covers it.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 00:11   #17
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Galaxy forums aren't public.
Neither was Willy Wonka's magical castle thing - but by chance, four selfish twats managed to get their way in. Hurrah!
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 01:56   #18
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
See also this discussion.

The version I made did up to 5-6 man alliances in reasonable time iirc. I'm pretty sure that given a week of coding time I could solve the problem for alliances of size 50, but the solution would include an alliance of my own entering intel and recording (some) interactions. Or perhaps a distributed version running on all the members' machines
There are some rather simple methods for calculating even 50 man alliances, but I think its not in the interest of the game for any such theories to be discussed in too much detail.

If this became a real issue, pa would have to mask the last few digits of the alliance score to make such predictions impossible.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 09:11   #19
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
There are some rather simple methods for calculating even 50 man alliances, but I think its not in the interest of the game for any such theories to be discussed in too much detail.
Reeeeeally. Out of purely theoretical interest, what would they be?

Quote:
If this became a real issue, pa would have to mask the last few digits of the alliance score to make such predictions impossible.
I don't agree, top alliances have reasonably accurate intel within 100 or so ticks, why shouldn't smart alliances have that too?
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 09:46   #20
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Re: Intel system??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intruder
Well, actually my question about this subject was intented to gather info about some commom intel gathering method for a more complete alliance manual for beginners who might insist on doin their own ally. The morality of handling info who is posted on public wasnt exactly the point

The sms stuff is posted on galaxy overview. By doin that obviously ppl are considering have this info public. If his opinion is different, just dont give sms info.

Funny thing seeing talks about morality of the method. I posted here cos i know some allies arealdy have the same idea.
galaxy forums are meant for that gal and not for the alliances of your galaxy mates. it's not supposed to be public and even tho it's effective it's still wrong to do it. But if already implemented by some alliances.. they obviously haven't thought about it or don't give a shit, so it's pointless to waste too much time talking about it.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 14:24   #21
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Re: Intel system??

I dont like giving my number out, a few rounds ago someone recognised me by my then number. So keep your friends close and dont trust those you dont know.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 16:52   #22
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Re: Intel system??

I dont give my number out anymore because its a real life thing... like i only have a select few friends from PA on my msn list... this game you really need to keep it seperate from your real life, otherwise it eats it up!
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