Flash Menus

[Seth Mace]

Can anybody recommend the best web language to use for a webpage that has a Flash menu system? The menu system needs to remain static (ie it doesnt refresh) each time you click a link on it, however the content part of the page below it (which is html or whatever) changes.

So if anyone can recommend a good way to go about this, one that hopefully is compatible with most browsers.

Thx!

[JammyJim]

frames?

[Seth Mace]

Aren't frames a bit dodgy though? I was under the impression they dont go well with some browsers and they can look messy when viewed with different resolutions as what they were designed in?

[JammyJim]

if you code the whole thing in flash then its rather easy tbh. you just slap the entire menu system on layer 1

then drag it out for a few frames and tell the buttons to move the movie about within the time line


e.g.
if button 1 is clicked then goto frame 2

frame 2 contains different text to frame 1


it does what youd like to do. theres probably ways to do it with javascript or php control too.

[Phil^]

as JJ said, Frames ( in html ) are probably the easiest way to do it

[Leshy]

Flash, Frames. Is this the "Take the worst things on the Internet and put them together" thread?

Don't use Flash. Period. You don't need Flash. No, you don't. No, no, you seriously don't. If you did need Flash, then you wouldn't be asking this question.*

Frames cause a whole load of accessibility issues, especially in the department of page printing, bookmarking, deeplinking, et cetera and should be equally avoided.


* No, you really don't.

[sayonara]

You should only use Flash if you are making a site for a client who is too stupid and too rich to be talked out of it in anything less than five working days.

If you use frames I'll find you. I'LL FIND YOU.

[JetLinus]

I like frames if done properly. It's the "classic" way of webdesign, lol. You know, one static menu frame and another one for content.
Ok don't flame me, by "classic way" I meant what people like I learned in school / with friends / from magazines in 1999 or so.

Who needs to print the menu anyway?
Linking CAN be troublesome, but just include a nice little "don't see the menu? click <here>! content originally from <link>" on the bottom of every site.

And using the correct meta tags, even search engines will handle frames ok.

It might not be professional anymore, ok. But without PHP, it's a good way to keep the menu flexible. Whenever I want to add a menu item, I add the content site and modify the menu frame.
Without frames, I'd have to use "complex concepts" like templates or whatever, or modify the menu in each site for every change.


I'd also like to point out were using the word frames in 2 contexts here: HTML and Flash. JJ mentioned both...


Please don't hate me, it's just that I don't HATE frames. I wouldn't call them professional or recommend them.

But I _do_ hate most sites fully made in flash. Like official movie or TV series website. You can't properly navigate, read, copy & past or just enjoy the content. Horrible.

[sayonara]

There are easier and better ways to do anything that makes frames 'good'.

[pablissimo]

Originally Posted by sayonara

If you use frames I'll find you. I'LL FIND YOU.

I shall join you on this HTML jihad.

[flapjack]

I especially liked frames when I had a rapidly growing website, because it ment I could put the website and the first 3 pages online, then add the rest in later without having to rewrite all the other pages or get broken links.

The only problem is with search engines linking into the wrong pages...

[Seth Mace]

I thought this was supposed to be a help forum? All ive gotten is flames for wanting to use Flash & no helpful suggestions whatsoever lol.

Why flash? Because i like it and unlike html languages, i feel comfortable using it. I didnt want to make a whole flash site (as ive done them before) and wanted to try something different.

As there doesnt seem a solution to the problem i originally posted about (apart from Frames but ive never liked using that), ill just remove any "intro" animation so it wont matter if the whole page refreshes.

If/ When i finish it, ill post the URL here so you guys can make more hostile remarks

[Structural Integrity]

Hmmm... If you can execute javascript from your script you might be able to get away with this trickage. But then still you'd need frames of iframes.
The idea is as follows: execute the javascript that changes the ".location" property of the frame.
I don't know anything about Flash (it's on my very long TODO list) so it might not be possible to execute javascript from your Flash.

Other than that... no... I have no idea.


BTW, frames are OK if used in the right context (use the right tool for the right job and stuff). For example on low-bandwidth networks frames can suppress the data sent. I used this in the past to host a DETO PA on my crappy 16kB connection for my friends.
Or on slow responding machines (embedded software with light/cheap industial processors) it might be desirable to keep a frame with the menu constantly in view while the main content takes ages to load so that the user experience is more bearable. I know I'd hard-reset the machine if I saw only a blank page for 30 seconds. Many router interfaces use frames for exactly this purpose.

[Leshy]

Frames have a valid application in intranet systems, or administration tools that are a private backend. Think of PhpMyAdmin, for a good example of a system that uses frames. These systems aren't meant to be particularly user-friendly, indexable, searchable or bookmarkable, and thus can get away with a whole lot more. And yes, if you absolutely do not have any access to a server side scripting language, frames may be your best option for maintenance ease. Otherwise, there is little to no good reason to use them.

As for Flash, it simply is horrible, especially if you mix it with HTML. Either do a Flash-only and a HTML-only solution, but don't ever combine the two. If you have no Flash plugin (and there are people who either don't have it or have it turned off to avoid annoying Flash adverts), you can't navigate the site. You can't navigate through a Flash menu with the keyboard, you cannot increase the text size if you are visually impaired, if you use a screen reader, the links won't be read out to you, et cetera et cetera.

Not to mention that you can get very nice links through CSS - the sort of stuff that you can do with Flash is generally the stuff that you do not want to happen when clicking links - pointless little animations distracting you from the content or annoying sounds which are a no-go to begin with, with or without Flash.

@JetLinus: If you don't want to print your menu, or whatever, you use a CSS stylesheet @media print, so that you can simply hide anything you don't want printed, or even unhide stuff that you do want to appear on your printouts, but not on your website itself.

[sayonara]

Originally Posted by Leshy

You can't navigate through a Flash menu with the keyboard, ...the links won't be read out to you, et cetera et cetera.

Both fixed in 2004 MX. That'll make the three people who use it happy

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by sayonara

Both fixed in 2004 MX. That'll make the three people who use it happy

Yes, I've heard recent versions of Flash have been starting to improve in certain useability areas, which is at the very least a move in the right direction.

I will not deny that Flash does have it's uses and in certain instances where Flash has been deliberately chosen as the best medium to convey information in, it is quite beautiful and handy. However, 9 out of 10 times Flash is used, it is done "because it's Flash! Flash, Flashity Flashy!", nearly automatically negating any positive points Flash may have.

[sayonara]

To be honest the Professional version of MX 2004 has some astounding functionality compared to, say, Flash 4.

But like you say; most of the time it's completely misused.