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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 23:55   #151
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Re: how do you become pa team

That is not for me to decide, and perhaps that was the reason for me not being mentioned.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:00   #152
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk
That is not for me to decide, and perhaps that was the reason for me not being mentioned.
Oh dear, so you cant even explain why its not possible to recode the battle engine?
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:14   #153
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Oh dear, so you cant even explain why its not possible to recode the battle engine?
I was half way through writing a long response, but I can't justify the need to myself, I really can't.
Yes, we need a new combat engine, no we haven't done one.
Feel free to blame Jolt for not giving us a proper coder to come and learn Planetarion and make a combat engine.
Feel free to blame Kloopy for being ill and not having the energy or the inclination to do things just because you keep posting about them - the only motivation you seem to be giving him is that maybe if he does it you'll stop being so rude and irritating.
Feel free to blame myself for not taking time out of my degree or my family holiday to learn Perl better and make a new combat engine myself, or us and the rest of the PA Team for not being more forthright in trying to find a coder to come and be NDAed and code when 3/4 of the last coders recruited to help code anything like a big project ended up with very little to show for their results.
I know you do anyway.
Even Fr0sten is more polite and spends more time trying to help and less time complaining that something isn't done.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:33   #154
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
I was half way through writing a long response, but I can't justify the need to myself, I really can't.
Yes, we need a new combat engine, no we haven't done one.
Feel free to blame Jolt for not giving us a proper coder to come and learn Planetarion and make a combat engine.
Feel free to blame Kloopy for being ill and not having the energy or the inclination to do things just because you keep posting about them - the only motivation you seem to be giving him is that maybe if he does it you'll stop being so rude and irritating.
Feel free to blame myself for not taking time out of my degree or my family holiday to learn Perl better and make a new combat engine myself, or us and the rest of the PA Team for not being more forthright in trying to find a coder to come and be NDAed and code when 3/4 of the last coders recruited to help code anything like a big project ended up with very little to show for their results.
I know you do anyway.
Even Fr0sten is more polite and spends more time trying to help and less time complaining that something isn't done.
Just answer this simple question then Appocomaster: How badly is a new combat engine needed?
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:38   #155
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Re: how do you become pa team

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Originally Posted by Kal
A number of people applied, but Chef was the best candidate by far mainly due to some of the things he does in real life.
I'm failing to see how being a Drag Queen DJ helps with HR

Seriously though I do see where some people who do know Chef and are worried are coming from. He isn't exactly known for being the best with commitment after all, with his attention seemingly wandering after the initial 'excitement' wears off. However he does have a passion for seeing the game do well and isn't someone who simply wants a position of power to wield it over people like some of the current PATeam or some ex PATeam and as such deserves a chance to prove himself. We might find that his lack of sticking to a commitment in the past was simply they weren't the right assignments for him and this one could be perfect and if not what exactly do we lose. Its hardly a top priority position and as long as long as a document of his actions is being made (something which tbh all PATeam should be doing really if they arent) it shouldn't be hard to seamlessly replace him should he lose interest in which case nothings been lost but some work in helping the game improve has been gained


Anyway id much rather see someone like Chef doing the job for 2 months than to see someone whos just going to laud it over people for a year and do very little.

Oh and Kargool as others have said perhaps you should take a look in the mirror. The day you do something significant to help this game rather than to try and make yourself feel important is the day you can start attacking people. Your whole attitude has always stunk be it your time in NoS where you would go around acting like it was so important to you but weeks earlier during the break you were there pimping yourself out as a potential HC to any alliance you could get to listen to the more modern times where you have made the "Demand, Winge and then make threats" technique your own. Your posts don't even start off constructive any more its just bash jolt, bash pateam, bash anyone who cant directly help me feel more important.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:44   #156
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Just answer this simple question then Appocomaster: How badly is a new combat engine needed?
Not half as bad as the community needs to remove people like you from its ranks that's for certain. Appoc could code the ideal version of PA and Jolt could throw endless money advertising it but while we have the likes of you here with the attitude you have atm then the community would struggle to grow
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:46   #157
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey

Oh and Kargool as others have said perhaps you should take a look in the mirror. The day you do something significant to help this game rather than to try and make yourself feel important is the day you can start attacking people. Your whole attitude has always stunk be it your time in NoS where you would go around acting like it was so important to you but weeks earlier during the break you were there pimping yourself out as a potential HC to any alliance you could get to listen to the more modern times where you have made the "Demand, Winge and then make threats" technique your own. Your posts don't even start off constructive any more its just bash jolt, bash pateam, bash anyone who cant directly help me feel more important.
Thank you dr freud. I always love being analysed.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:46   #158
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I'm failing to see how being a Drag Queen DJ helps with HR
I have done other jobs you know
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 00:47   #159
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Not half as bad as the community needs to remove people like you from its ranks that's for certain. Appoc could code the ideal version of PA and Jolt could throw endless money advertising it but while we have the likes of you here with the attitude you have atm then the community would struggle to grow
Erm.. Wakey, remove people like me who asks questions and critisises when they disagree on things. Thats exactly the way PA should go.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 01:01   #160
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Erm.. Wakey, remove people like me who asks questions and critisises when they disagree on things. Thats exactly the way PA should go.
You don't ask questions and criticise when you disagree. You flame people who disagree with what your saying, you flame pateam when they don't do what you want them to do and you then throw your toys out of the pram in a manner that's made you into a Caricature of yourself. Your a joke and the sooner you realise that and stop being so bitter and stop chasing after ways to stroke your own ego the better as no doubt you probably have some insight somewhere to bring to the table
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 01:23   #161
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
You don't ask questions and criticise when you disagree. You flame people who disagree with what your saying, you flame pateam when they don't do what you want them to do and you then throw your toys out of the pram in a manner that's made you into a Caricature of yourself. Your a joke and the sooner you realise that and stop being so bitter and stop chasing after ways to stroke your own ego the better as no doubt you probably have some insight somewhere to bring to the table
I dont really feel that my posting warrants such a flamepost from you, but thats fine, thats your opinion on me and I accept that. However, I think you should turn the tables on that abit and accept that people will always disagree on matters and if thats a problem for you, that is your problem.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 09:06   #162
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Just answer this simple question then Appocomaster: How badly is a new combat engine needed?
Future rounds would occur without it. It'd be possible to make the combat side of the game different without having to go to jer-like extremes. It would arguably help balance steal (if you lose ships as they steal other ships) though this would make the ships you steal more important, and so secret ship donating more powerful. It'd also probably force people, especially early on, to target smaller, more inactive players as they were less likely to run their fleet and so you'd be more certain of getting the ships you want.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 09:40   #163
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Erm.. Wakey, remove people like me who asks questions and critisises when they disagree on things. Thats exactly the way PA should go.
I'd like to refer you to your own avatar. Sit down, stare at it for roughly ~3 hours and then you might come to the conclusion that wakey is right.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 09:48   #164
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Re: how do you become pa team

I leave t'internet for 14 hours and this thread turns into a flame fest. The thread has gone widely off topic, which I dont have too much of a problem with as some of the points brought up have been very good and phrased in a polite manner. Please dont go with the personal insults though and if you are going to make negative comments please make them constructive. If you have a problem with something that is being done suggest a solution or at least explain your reasoning behind why whatever it is is a problem. Posts along the lines of 'omg this sux' dont help anyone and if they continue i'll have to resort to removing posts/people and closing the thread which i dont want to do.

Xontas - I havent done much business/economics in my time but i understand the difference between turnover and profit. If Jolt has 20k turnover from PA that does not all go in to their back pockets. A large amount of that will go on server costs, wages for Biffy and any other Jolt employees, general electricity etc bills and so on. Your average business is happy if 10% of its turnover is their profit, which would mean about 2k for PA going on your numbers.

I agree with whoever made the comment that companys dont have to clarify why the promoted someone but PA isnt quite the same. What would be useful though is if each person in PA team was given some kind of job description so that they knew what was expected of them and maybe this (or a public friendly version of this) could be made public so that people know what they are expected to do within PA team.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 12:33   #165
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
Xontas - I havent done much business/economics in my time but i understand the difference between turnover and profit. If Jolt has 20k turnover from PA that does not all go in to their back pockets. A large amount of that will go on server costs, wages for Biffy and any other Jolt employees, general electricity etc bills and so on. Your average business is happy if 10% of its turnover is their profit, which would mean about 2k for PA going on your numbers.
Actually, I believe that you'd be vastly overestimating Jolt's costs in order to run Planetarion.

I'm pretty certain that they will have server and bandwidth costs, but as a professional gameserver hosting company, I doubt these are extremely high per server individually, given they presumably have a fairly large amount. In effect, most costs that the PA server generates, apart from electricity consumption and bandwidth, are costs that Jolt would be making anyway. And arguably the former too, given that without PA the server would likely be acting as yet another game server.

No Jolt employees have been hired specifically for Planetarion, biffy is merely an already existing Jolt employee who idles in #pateam and has close to no value to Planetarion whatsoever, apart from occasionally repeating how much Jolt really cares. So in terms of wages, I seriously doubt that Planetarion is adding much cost to Jolt's overall's expenditure either.

In my opinion, the reason Jolt likes Planetarion, is because it costs them very little to nothing to operate since all the work is done by volunteers, and once they'd made back their intial puchase cost from Fifth Season AS, pretty much every single account sold is pure profit for them.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 12:52   #166
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Re: how do you become pa team

I'd say the problems with pa-team are quite simple. Its forever changing with more and more useless people being added. Back in the old days, you only had a few pa admins that everyone knew and respected, at least to some extent. Whereas the old pa-admins used to be fun and a bit, dare i say it, cool - the new ones are generally dead-beat morons (with the exception of appoco <3). If PA was being run exactly as it is now, but with *sits back and thinks* people like jerome, JBG, errr do you all like that tomkat guy? well whoever you all have homo-erotic fantasies about, hardly anyone would be complaining. I mean deary me, do people actually care about stats? PA is all about IRC afterall, the actual game is irrelevant.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 13:03   #167
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Yes, we need a new combat engine, no we haven't done one.
Feel free to blame Jolt for not giving us a proper coder to come and learn Planetarion and make a combat engine.
Feel free to blame Kloopy for being ill and not having the energy or the inclination to do things just because you keep posting about them - the only motivation you seem to be giving him is that maybe if he does it you'll stop being so rude and irritating.
Feel free to blame myself for not taking time out of my degree or my family holiday to learn Perl better and make a new combat engine myself, or us and the rest of the PA Team for not being more forthright in trying to find a coder to come and be NDAed and code when 3/4 of the last coders recruited to help code anything like a big project ended up with very little to show for their results.
I know you do anyway.
Publish a detailed specification about what needs to be done, say it has to be done in PERL and publish a bounty offer like done on https://www.bountysource.com/ between 50€ and 150€.

Its even pretty likely that you get it for free if you just make a detailed specification and an open development process on PA - because i think there are still enough coders left who would invest a bit of time to help the game.

Obviously somebody will now completely dismiss a more "open" development model because they will point at the masses of competitors who would (ab-)use this for their own good. You shouldnt forget that it is _content_ which is payed for and not some silly combat engine. I can easily code a great combat engine in a bored day (but not in perl - i seriously dislike perl) but that doesnt give me the content, community and environment to compete with PA. The asset of PA isnt a combat engine - or else your business model would be pretty much screwed

and Appoco - i honestly feel for/with you
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 13:06   #168
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
stuff
I probably was overestimating the costs of PA, I was bored so waffled on a bit too much rather than just stating that saying '3k players x £3 a credit (or whatever it is) is a bit simplistic.

I might be wrong here but i think i've read somewhere on these forums that Kloopy or somebody else was (still is?) payed to do some coding. I've no idea how much they were payed but obviously that goes in to the costs of running the game as does some of Biffy's time (not much admittedly) so PA effectively has to pay for that bit of his wage. I dont think spending 20k on advertising with the way the game currently is would do much good anyway. You cant really get away from the fact that PA is a glorified spreadsheet.
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 19:08   #169
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
*Edit*

In the interests of tact and avoiding a needless argument, I'll reserve this for pm.


Suggestions/comments are great... but the "omgPAteamsux etc" is getting a little bit old =/

The fact that most suggestions are ignored or not thought about cause it'd require to much work doesn't leave many options open.
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(SethMace) omg 2nd!!!
(SethMace) we must block with 3rd to take them down!!!11

(Marneus) also the damn thing aint always right 4 + 79 = i type 81 and it kicked me back to the login again grrr
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Unread 21 Sep 2006, 22:20   #170
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Re: how do you become pa team

its not impossible, but spinner found it damn hard to do and he designed it.
so you can imagine that someone who is using code that they didnt code themself, has to be damn good to do it
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 17:24   #171
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Re: how do you become pa team

What is done when a pa team member fails to comply with acceptable guidelines?
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 17:25   #172
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Re: how do you become pa team

If someone feels frustrated or offended by a PA team member, who can we complain to?
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 17:37   #173
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Re: how do you become pa team

biffy
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 00:13   #174
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
If someone feels frustrated or offended by a PA team member, who can we complain to?
This depends on who you feel has frustrated or offended you. If it is one of the deputies (eg. support, multihunters, ops, forum mods) then the first course of action would be to talk to the head of that department.
If it is one of the department heads, but the complaint is about something not in that department (for example: the head of support over a multihunting issue) then you should talk to the head of the relevant department (in that example, the head of the multihunters)
If it is a department head, and the complaint is regarding that department then you can either take it up with one of the other department heads, or you can contact biffy if you feel it is especially serious. PATeam should be able to resolve most issues internally without going out to Jolt.

(I realise that this sounds rather more complicated than it actually is)
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 00:30   #175
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
If someone feels frustrated or offended by a PA team member, who can we complain to?
At first I guess I would have suggested god, but then i remembered i dont belive in him so I came up with the second best suggestion: Talk to Pea in #planetarion
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 06:51   #176
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Re: how do you become pa team

in answer to the initial topic of the thread .. aplly to the current dept heads in the pa team

in answer to Pligrim - just do what your doing ... fools complain to anyone and everyone till they get noticed and ignored .
to anyone else with a brain - if you have an alliance hc - go to them .. and then they will take the complain forward .
Alliance HC are here to do other stuff than make political postures :P
if u dont have an alliance hc - take it to the dept head of wherever the complaint is for, if that doesnt result in what u think is the right action, take it higher and higher till a result has been procured.
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 07:45   #177
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Re: how do you become pa team

or if that fails
give up pa
get smashed
get high
wake up realise ur life isnt worth anything nemore
and finally
hang urself

if that doesnt work then ur dead already
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 08:37   #178
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith
in answer to the initial topic of the thread .. aplly to the current dept heads in the pa team

in answer to Pligrim - just do what your doing ... fools complain to anyone and everyone till they get noticed and ignored .
to anyone else with a brain - if you have an alliance hc - go to them .. and then they will take the complain forward .
Alliance HC are here to do other stuff than make political postures :P
if u dont have an alliance hc - take it to the dept head of wherever the complaint is for, if that doesnt result in what u think is the right action, take it higher and higher till a result has been procured.
So what about the majority of the players which are not in an alliance? They do not deserve a right to speak up?
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 08:42   #179
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
So what about the majority of the players which are not in an alliance? They do not deserve a right to speak up?

Ofc they have a right to speak hearty.
For ppl in alliances it's a bit easier since they can use their HC to talk for them, ppl without a alliance can take it up with the head of the department they have a complaint about.

And if needed there are enough alliance HCs that are willing to help out ppl who are stuck and cant talk to a department head about a complaint.
If in doubt about who helps, I'll help out if i can.
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 12:49   #180
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Re: how do you become pa team

If anyone has an issue with a senior member of PA Team they can email me - [email protected] .
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 13:32   #181
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
If anyone has an issue with a senior member of PA Team they can email me - [email protected] .

About time you responded biffy

So here you got it... if your not part of a alliance and have noone to help you to complain about a PA team member mail biffy
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Unread 27 Sep 2006, 11:59   #182
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Re: how do you become pa team

sleep with the person in charge
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Unread 27 Sep 2006, 12:00   #183
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK_OPPS
sleep with the person in charge
My ex girlfriend refused to be a PA Team member when I said she qualified
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Unread 27 Sep 2006, 12:10   #184
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Re: how do you become pa team

lolo prolly knew what it entailed
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Unread 27 Sep 2006, 15:27   #185
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphi
lolo prolly knew what it entailed
Yeah, having sex with Appoco

That's why she's his exgirlfriend!
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Unread 27 Sep 2006, 23:24   #186
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Re: how do you become pa team

in light of http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...16#post3063916

so.. what did chef/kal do in prior of this department being announced? surely all of that was already being done right? :/

edit; no offence but i am in serious doubt that anyone in the pateam is competant enough for '- Setting long term goals', not meant to be an insult or anything but come on
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Unread 27 Sep 2006, 23:42   #187
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Re: how do you become pa team

What was this thread supposed to be about again? I've forgotten
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 00:09   #188
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Re: how do you become pa team

about the pateam!
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 01:40   #189
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
in light of http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...16#post3063916

so.. what did chef/kal do in prior of this department being announced? surely all of that was already being done right? :/

edit; no offence but i am in serious doubt that anyone in the pateam is competant enough for '- Setting long term goals', not meant to be an insult or anything but come on
jerome...kal was head of pa for a while before real life issues caused him to take time off on sabbatical. When he returned he iirc (i may be wrong on the job title) was in charge of future planning. This job expanded into the p&o department when it was felt within the team that a hr department was needed to help be the watchmen on the game watchers...so as to ensure that game regulations and procedures were being fairly adhered to by all. This department when initiated towards the end of the round was set up on a trial basis to assess how it fitted in to the day to day running of planetarion.
When the decision to run the department was made, a job advertisment was placed on the planetarion reps forum for the deputy position in the department. After interviewing the recieved candidates, the position was offered to chef on his merits and experience from real life activities. hence his position.
Now after round end all departments went through a "post-mortem" and analysed its actions and benefits over the previous round. When it became clear that we had too many departments it was decided to streamline it and incorporate the p&o department with communication and announcements, as its trial had generally been succesful.
Now, with reference to the announcement, they have given the revised departments mandate in bullet form so as to inform the community as to what their main aims and objectives are...as it has been heavily criticised recently that the community does not know what each department does.

All in all i ask you and everyone else who feels like taking pot shots at the pa team as a whole to stop for a while and actually give the new people/departments a chance to actually do their job for longer than 5 minutes before you criticise and complain any further.
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 07:21   #190
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Re: how do you become pa team

I do believe the progress that the DevTeam makes
should be measured and evaluated on a month to month basis.

If they fail to improve then, they can just as well scrape the DevTeam and make it a maintenance team
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 07:21   #191
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Re: how do you become pa team

As i've mentioned in another thread, my opinion of the human resources department is that it is effectively superfluous - its roles and powers should already be done by everyone else anyway. But in order to avoid more controversy, i'll just direct you to that discussion instead.
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 08:48   #192
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Re: how do you become pa team

Ive already done my complaining/objecting to this new 'oversight' department and its self appointed list of members putting their fingers in as many pies as they can.
Its doomed from the beginning - all thats left is to watch it tear itself and the other teams apart through constant interference.
my two pence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
as it has been heavily criticised recently that the community does not know what each department does.
Are you serious? Must be some rather thick people out there
Support team - fairly obvious , helps people who have problems with the game
Multihunter team - again obvious, catches cheaters
Ops team - keeps the peace in #planetarion
Mods team - moderates the forums
Pateam - a group who direct where the game is to go ( and its currently, to hell )
Dev team - develops the next round with changes specified by pateam/community

Thats all the teams there is/should be and its really not hard to find out who does what
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 11:13   #193
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Re: how do you become pa team

Perhaps the new portal should have a "blog" section and each member of the PA Team should put something substantial in there (for example, at least once a month) updating the community on what they've done, what they're doing, and what they'll be doing next month.

That'd hopefully be enough to keep the hyenas at bay...?
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 19:35   #194
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
All in all i ask you and everyone else who feels like taking pot shots at the pa team as a whole to stop for a while and actually give the new people/departments a chance to actually do their job for longer than 5 minutes before you criticise and complain any further.
I'm interested as to what timeframe you'd find acceptable before we start reviewing accountability of the people that determine the future of this game? At what point is it ok to question these people and would you be in favor establishing some actual criteria and guidelines to measure job performance?
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 19:48   #195
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
All in all i ask you and everyone else who feels like taking pot shots at the pa team as a whole to stop for a while and actually give the new people/departments a chance to actually do their job for longer than 5 minutes before you criticise and complain any further.
If pa team as a whole just produces a huge pile of shit they cannot demand anything back. Not even the "but it's voluntary work!" line helps you there - rather stop dragging something even deeper into the dirt then it is already located in. What PA needs is clearly not a restructuring of pa team every even round, nor a new portal every odd round. When PA Team realizes that point, then they may get onto the road of respect again. However, without the smallest kind of safe and sound reasoning behind their decisions and actions they're unlikely to get anything else than my well-liked middle-finger.
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 19:58   #196
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Re: how do you become pa team

Yeah, Heartless's post just reminded me to add this on:

The portal is, has always been, and will continue to be a tremendous waste of attention and resources. For the sake of this game's future - stop pissing yourselves over the goddamn portal.
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 20:01   #197
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
I'm interested as to what timeframe you'd find acceptable before we start reviewing accountability of the people that determine the future of this game? At what point is it ok to question these people and would you be in favor establishing some actual criteria and guidelines to measure job performance?
Well to be honest, everyone is expecting instant change and that is not feasibly possible. To rush changes in would cause more harm to the game than leaving it as it is. Appocomaster is now able to concentrate on the development side of things with his whole attention as he is not in charge of any other department anymore, and as such he is in the process of reorganising and getting things moving in that said team. Ok so some of the changes this round are not groundbreaking, game rejuvinating masterpieces...but it is a start.

As for the question of when it is ok...that is down to an individual to decide for himself...not for myself or anyone else to decide for them. However if things are being tried and tested to see how they'd affect the game..then the department is doing its job. In my own opinion, and not that of the pa team, people are far too quick to criticise on here whether something is done or not. with the exception of a few people, not many have done/offered to help work towards improving the game, and these same people who havent offered are always among the first to criticise those who do. I may get heavily neg repped for that one comment but it is my personal belief and as much as i am flamed for it i stand by it whole heartedly.

Finally for the criteria etc...it is of my understanding that the portal will contain the mandates of all the departments in pa team. And yes I agree departments will need to be monitored to assess their performance...however it is in my opinion it is the department managers role to perform this assessment, not the communities, and after every round present this appraisal report on the portal for all to see. If people arent happy with a depts performance from reading the portal report, then it will be down to the manager to improve performance. If poor performance continues over a number of appraisals then the pa team will need to look at how things are being run..as in the end the buck stops with the manager. Again however I state one major consideration that must be taken into account for certain departments...change can only be made gradually...dont expect miracles overnight.
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 20:15   #198
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
If pa team as a whole just produces a huge pile of shit they cannot demand anything back. Not even the "but it's voluntary work!" line helps you there - rather stop dragging something even deeper into the dirt then it is already located in. What PA needs is clearly not a restructuring of pa team every even round, nor a new portal every odd round. When PA Team realizes that point, then they may get onto the road of respect again. However, without the smallest kind of safe and sound reasoning behind their decisions and actions they're unlikely to get anything else than my well-liked middle-finger.
ok in answer to this...the department changes are not enforced every round, it is just that for the last 2 rounds things have been unsettled by personnel departures etc. and hopefully...and nothing is ever certain...the team will be very settled from now on.

The portal has been a baby of chef's aims from before he was made into pa team...he wanted to put something back into the community which others could contribute to. if you dont want anything to do with it, or even want to pay attention to it that is your decision...but please dont bash people for wanting to do something to improve community communication.

And tbh with your final line you are proving how closeminded certain people are becoming. Give people a chance to change things...you might not agree with some or all of them, but prejudging something because there is no reasoning behind it is petty at best. Heartless when you were involved with the now defunct pan idea you offered constructive advice and criticism when needed...now all you seem to do is flame. Go back to the old self of you...as this one is just bitter and twisted.
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 20:39   #199
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Re: how do you become pa team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
Well to be honest, everyone is expecting instant change and that is not feasibly possible. To rush changes in would cause more harm to the game than leaving it as it is.
Some may be expecting instant change, but personally i would be satisfied with measurable change for the better - not the worse. What people think of the changes made is entirely subjective, its their own opinion on them after all upon which they are basing their conclusions.
I agree with your concern over rushing changes in though - but thats what betas are for. If the changes are tested properly then there shouldnt be any worries over them since most problems should be ironed out in beta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
Ok so some of the changes this round are not groundbreaking, game rejuvinating masterpieces...but it is a start.
Although not what you intended ( i think ), its very easy to see this as a 'get out of jail free' statement. Something to lay the groundwork should the round flop - after all " its not a significant change for the better but its laying the groundwork for the next round which will ".
If it doesnt flop then its something which can be siezed upon as evidence of a long term strategy to fix the games ills.
Its an impressive piece of political doublespeak, even if unintended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
As for the question of when it is ok...that is down to an individual to decide for himself...not for myself or anyone else to decide for them. However if things are being tried and tested to see how they'd affect the game..then the department is doing its job.
Hmm. merely churning out something to test doesnt mean its doing its job. After all it could simply be a new set of stats with no other game changes - I cant imagine you would be able to justify the time spend by the dev department in such an eventuality if all they could come up with is a stats change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
In my own opinion, and not that of the pa team, people are far too quick to criticise on here whether something is done or not. with the exception of a few people, not many have done/offered to help work towards improving the game, and these same people who havent offered are always among the first to criticise those who do. I may get heavily neg repped for that one comment but it is my personal belief and as much as i am flamed for it i stand by it whole heartedly.
Its the way of the world. People will always complain about something, what needs to be done is to take a balanced view of it. If everyone is complaining about something then its a pretty good pointer that something is amiss somewhere.
There are several things that im not happy about with the state of affairs in PA myself, i have made my concerns known and have mostly been ignored from what i can tell. Obviously my views arent popular with pateam since they are sort of aimed at them but still. Its not like im expecting miracles overnight - this is pateam after all. I know how the system works and how much internal politics take up the vast majority of peoples time. The least i can do is point out each and every time i think one or more of you have screwed up in the hopes that you will 'see the light' and amend your ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
Finally for the criteria etc...it is of my understanding that the portal will contain the mandates of all the departments in pa team. And yes I agree departments will need to be monitored to assess their performance...however it is in my opinion it is the department managers role to perform this assessment, not the communities, and after every round present this appraisal report on the portal for all to see. If people arent happy with a depts performance from reading the portal report, then it will be down to the manager to improve performance. If poor performance continues over a number of appraisals then the pa team will need to look at how things are being run..as in the end the buck stops with the manager. Again however I state one major consideration that must be taken into account for certain departments...change can only be made gradually...dont expect miracles overnight.
If it is the department managers role to manage their own teams, explain why this gestapo-like oversight department was created in the first place to enforce their own agendas in the teams. Its sole purpose is to interfere with the running of the other teams to fit its own vision of how they want things to be - and the fact that it was made up through self appointment just adds weight to the concerns i voiced on the reps forum about this and were summarily disputed and ignored by the current HEAD of the department.
to me, its a simple prelude to a dictatorship, with the oversight department being the "SS" enforcement of the dictators whims.
There was nothing wrong with the old system where teams are accountable only to their manager, and the managers were accountable only to biffy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
And tbh with your final line you are proving how closeminded certain people are becoming. Give people a chance to change things...you might not agree with some or all of them, but prejudging something because there is no reasoning behind it is petty at best. Heartless when you were involved with the now defunct pan idea you offered constructive advice and criticism when needed...now all you seem to do is flame. Go back to the old self of you...as this one is just bitter and twisted.
Its amazing how while people are outside the thrones of power, criticism of things is taken as constructive but the moment they sit down there - everything becomes a personal attack which must be refuted, ridiculed and flamed at all costs.
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Unread 28 Sep 2006, 20:57   #200
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Re: how do you become pa team

I'm kind of confused, I wasn;t aware I was running an oversight department.

Chef and I do the following tasks as listed in the announcement:
- Maintaining Staff Records.
- Writing Policy for PATeam.
- Setting Round Dates.
- Being the third party in resolving staff disputes
- Improving the PATeams reputation with the community
- Managing the round 19 portal and portal team (coming in the next few days)
- Developing methods to market Planetarion to its target audience
- Dealing with complaints and giving responses to complaints on the forums
- Making game announcements
- Setting long term goals

I'm assumign the one people things means overight is the writing policy for pateam one? Thatwould perhaps have been reprhased as writing policy on behalf of PATeam. Its all about simply making sure the polcies we ahve in place are uptodate and all in one place so everyone who needs to know them is aware of them.

I guess the other one that could be seen as oversight is the complaints one. Again thats not about us being the people who "solve" the complaints about PATeam members, thats about making sure that if there is say a thread where PATeam as a whole are critcised then one person shoudl speak rather than everyone speaking and confusing the issue. If the issue is with a specific departments decision e.g. lets say the alliance size limit thread then in that case appoco would be the relevant person to reply.

Most of the Operations Department's function is to take a lot of the organisation aspects off Appoco's hands so he can concentrate on development.

Its also woth pointing out that no PATeam "titles" or responsbilties are self appointed, we discuss who should do what as a team.
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