This months "get over yourself" award goes to :

[Deffeh]

Eminem. again.


Will you just **** off and quit with the "why me im so hard done by you dont know what its like" lyrics

They might work if you werent an untalented, arrogant, self-deluded wannabe-gangster who had already attempted to pigeonhole himself as a hard nut, non-caring mother hating women beating ****face.

WHY do people by this crap? Gangster rap, and ****ing eminem in particular

blam

[Recon]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Eminem. again.


Will you just **** off and quit with the "why me im so hard done by you dont know what its like" lyrics

They might work if you werent an untalented, arrogant, self-deluded wannabe-gangster who had already attempted to pigeonhole himself as a hard nut, non-caring mother hating women beating ****face.

WHY do people by this crap? Gangster rap, and ****ing eminem in particular

Deffeh
Angry Young Man
---
This thread gets 2 thumbs down
and Deffeh earns himself 2 jealousy points

[Deffeh]

Indeed i am an angry young man. I labelled myself appropriately.

less jealousy, more bitterness.

Why on earth would i want to be eminem?

And why two thumbs down

why not go into the rap biznas?

[Black Dog]

I concur.

Couldn't have put it more eloquently myself.

[LHC]

I'm jealous. He's such a twat, can't sing, can't act and he's bloody rich.

[Recon]

Originally posted by Deffeh

And why two thumbs down

1.for the sheer amount of anger in thread
solution: less hatin', more lovin'
2.i like eminem and you be dissin my homie
solution: delete thread and both thumbs down are lost and you have a chance to redeem yourself and earn some thumbs up

[Deffeh]

I'll delete the thread when eminem stops saying one thing, doing another, and saying he does a third thing.

He could at least stick to one bull**** story

[Recon]

Originally posted by Deffeh
I'll delete the thread when eminem stops saying one thing, doing another, and saying he does a third thing.

He could at least stick to one bull**** story

This thread earns 1 more thumb down - too much anger

also in other news Deffeh gains 1 more jealousy point.

Tally:
3 thumbs down
3 jealousy point for Deffeh

[Snurx]

Eminem suck big time.
Why people by this crap, is a big question. But its fashion. And people by fashion. Its all about advertising and stuff.

Sadly, gangsterrap has destroyed hiphop. Its kinda sad, since hiphop has many good qualities, and much good musick. But that's the way it goes, when cultures get more and more popular.
Im only glad that it really is not hiphop, althought most people belive it is.

[Pyr0 MK III]

I like Eminem

[Deffeh]

and you also like SOAD. two horrible extremes

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
WHY do people by this crap? Gangster rap, and ****ing eminem in particular

I presume people by (sic) it because they like it.

A couple of his songs are quite good. It's not like you have to sign up to his "philosophy". I don't really care if he was actually born into a rich Jewish family in upstate New York. It makes no difference.

[Deffeh]

Dante,

Rap is dependant on lyrics. Other forms of music have all kinds of different skills. Rap has a backbeat, and lyrics. (thus already sucks blahblahblah).

Therefore, the lyrics are more important.

Therefore the lyrics sense make to need.

Therefore When hes talking out his ass, about things he isnt involved with, and is generally being a pretencious wanker, by definition, his music is going to suck.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Therefore When hes talking out his ass, about things he isnt involved with, and is generally being a pretencious wanker, by definition, his music is going to suck.

Not really. When I first heard him I just presumed he was a media creation (sort of like a contemporary "wigga" version of the Monkees).

When someone sings about the pain of suicide, or losing a loved one, it might make it more powerful if it's true, but if it's not, does it matter?

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
When someone sings about the pain of suicide, or losing a loved one, it might make it more powerful if it's true, but if it's not, does it matter?

to me, yes

Think about for example the power of martin luther king's "i have a dream" speech

Now think of someone reciting this speech at a HUGE black rights conference - same number of people - same discontent.

It doesnt have the same effect.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Think about for example the power of martin luther king's "i have a dream" speech

I think that's the difference. I don't look to pop artists to provide me with either emotional stirrings or some sort of social commentary.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
I think that's the difference. I don't look to pop artists to provide me with either emotional stirrings or some sort of social commentary.

widen the range then. Could you accept social commentary from any form of music?

[Add]

Originally posted by Deffeh
widen the range then. Could you accept social commentary from any form of music?

you read far too much into music. if the song is good, listen to it, if it's not, don't. I strongly disagree with your taste in music, you disagree with mine. Who is right, neither, it all depends on individuals tastes so just shut the **** up with all the moaning. no-one gives a crap.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Add
you read far too much into music. if the song is good, listen to it, if it's not, don't. I strongly disagree with your taste in music, you disagree with mine. Who is right, neither, it all depends on individuals tastes so just shut the **** up with all the moaning. no-one gives a crap.

yes.. theres no meaning in music at all, really..

No social comment in perhaps "working class hero" by john lennon maybe?

And by your logic, if lyrics mean **** all - and have **** all meaning - and rap music is 90% dependant on lyrics - rap music is then, ****.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
widen the range then. Could you accept social commentary from any form of music?

Of course.

From the mild comment on the banality of everday life of Eels to the "**** you I won't do what you tell me" of RATM to the old-left sensibilities of Mr Billy Bragg. It's all good.

But if I hear a song on the radio that sounds quite good, I won't be annoyed/upset if the message behind it isn't genuine. Do I care that T.A.T.U aren't really lesbians? Do I care if Avril Lavigne isn't really the indie alt ska punk chick she claims to be? Once again, not really.

It's pretty hard to make it musically (or in movies, or literature, etc) so I don't blame people if they ride in on less than genuine cultural waves. I'm sure they're trying they're best to make it for themselves, their families, etc.

Of course, these people will never have my admiration but that's a slightly different kettle of fish.

[SilverSmoke]

Originally posted by Add
you read far too much into music. if the song is good, listen to it, if it's not, don't. I strongly disagree with your taste in music, you disagree with mine. Who is right, neither, it all depends on individuals tastes so just shut the **** up with all the moaning. no-one gives a crap.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Of course.

From the mild comment on the banality of everday life of Eels to the "**** you I won't do what you tell me" of RATM to the old-left sensibilities of Mr Billy Bragg. It's all good.

But if I hear a song on the radio that sounds quite good, I won't be annoyed/upset if the message behind it isn't genuine. Do I care that T.A.T.U aren't really lesbians? Do I care if Avril Lavigne isn't really the indie alt ska punk chick she claims to be? Once again, not really.

It's pretty hard to make it musically (or in movies, or literature, etc) so I don't blame people if they ride in on less than genuine cultural waves. I'm sure they're trying they're best to make it for themselves, their families, etc.

Of course, these people will never have my admiration but that's a slightly different kettle of fish.

Well, thats your view and i accept it. Perhaps it would be easier if i could adopt that view, but i tend to get irritated too easily. My little brother hangs about with rejects who listen to gangster rap and subsequently think they "run amock" in the "ghetto" of our middle class suburb. People like eminem keep fueling these sad acts, who cause problems in the gene pool, in local soceity, etcetcetc. This is just an example, remember. Im sure its the same elsewhere. Soceity tells people to do things, the weak amongst soceity take these things out of context.

[Tietäjä]

Originally posted by Deffeh
-read up-

Now, everyone who listens to Eminem isn't necessarily a society reject, like your little bro (or his friends, rather). I went to see 8mile with my girlfriend, just out of curiosity, and now I've found myself listening to Marshall Matters (aka his first album) for six hours straight.

Yet, I'm no gangsta rapper, nor wannabe one. And I don't consider my life ****e, nor my family ****e, no more ****e than the average - rare get a good draw when starting their lives. But I'm wandering again.

The lyrics aren't bad - actually, they are, in a way - good. Unsettling, I'd say. I'm waiting for you to post a thread on Whitney Houston about 'Why can't that neggar bitch stop whining about her lovelife oh why?', or on some ****ing teen romance bull**** Britney Spears (or better say, a product of any Popstar ****e, but see, I'm wandering again).

The point is, Eminem's lyrics are different from most of other rap artists (well, in my opinion, most neggar rap is just about motha****ing). And if you are bored of it, don't listen to it. There are very few artists that have lyrics that actually might apply to their current situation of life, and most of all, lyrics are just a piece of the product, made to sell. It's business. Not a life-story, like the movie'd be (surprisingly good role pulled by him btw).

It's sad if some ´tarded teen angst gangsters feel like they are rough and tough now that they are like the Eminem in his childhood, and feel an urgent need to sabotage your community.

Of course, people like Eminem do fuel the bad acts, but hey, it's been told many times that a certain romance metal band in Finland (HIM, if you know) caused many suicides in the mid-late 90's. Yet, nobody whined, except for the shrinks.

If someone starts to get kicks and fuels up from some music, he should get some serious treatment. Agreed, the angst of the dumbass wannabegangsta teenagers today is a problem for the society, but it won't be solved by riddancing Eminem.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Tietäjä
Now, everyone who listens to Eminem isn't necessarily a society reject, like your little bro (or his friends, rather). I went to see 8mile with my girlfriend, just out of curiosity, and now I've found myself listening to Marshall Matters (aka his first album) for six hours straight.

Yet, I'm no gangsta rapper, nor wannabe one. And I don't consider my life ****e, nor my family ****e, no more ****e than the average - rare get a good draw when starting their lives. But I'm wandering again.

The lyrics aren't bad - actually, they are, in a way - good. Unsettling, I'd say. I'm waiting for you to post a thread on Whitney Houston about 'Why can't that neggar bitch stop whining about her lovelife oh why?', or on some ****ing teen romance bull**** Britney Spears (or better say, a product of any Popstar ****e, but see, I'm wandering again).

The point is, Eminem's lyrics are different from most of other rap artists (well, in my opinion, most neggar rap is just about motha****ing). And if you are bored of it, don't listen to it. There are very few artists that have lyrics that actually might apply to their current situation of life, and most of all, lyrics are just a piece of the product, made to sell. It's business. Not a life-story, like the movie'd be (surprisingly good role pulled by him btw).

It's sad if some ´tarded teen angst gangsters feel like they are rough and tough now that they are like the Eminem in his childhood, and feel an urgent need to sabotage your community.

Of course, people like Eminem do fuel the bad acts, but hey, it's been told many times that a certain romance metal band in Finland (HIM, if you know) caused many suicides in the mid-late 90's. Yet, nobody whined, except for the shrinks.

If someone starts to get kicks and fuels up from some music, he should get some serious treatment. Agreed, the angst of the dumbass wannabegangsta teenagers today is a problem for the society, but it won't be solved by riddancing Eminem.

Whats good about the lyrics? He yells on and on about howhes gonna kill "you", or his wife, or women in general, or his mother. And he yells on and on about how good drugs are, and how much he loves drugs, and why you should drink and drive. It may rhyme nicely, but where is the skill?

All he is doing is putting messages in people heads. These ****ed up angst ridden teenagers will turn into 20 somethings that still hate, and destroy soceity.


People always moan and say "i bet you think theres no one like you, that your really individual". No one is, of course. We are all just imitations of those before us, and a selection of our experiences - be these from family, friends, television, music. This is how we work.

So i believe in effect, getting rid of eminem, or at least making him Less mainstream WOULD benefit soceity. There would of course be a chance of unfortunately making him become a "cult" and thus increasing and amplifying his following however.

[Tietäjä]

Deffeh, the fact is, if one takes all entertainment the TV and media in general stuffs very seriously, one is quite likely a bit less sane than an average person in all the ways.

What about TV violence?
Now, that's an old topic, but it can be compared to this one.
And computer/console games?

EVIL EVIL EVIL!

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Tietäjä
Deffeh, the fact is, if one takes all entertainment the TV and media in general stuffs very seriously, one is quite likely a bit less sane than an average person in all the ways.

What about TV violence?
Now, that's an old topic, but it can be compared to this one.
And computer/console games?

EVIL EVIL EVIL!

The problem is tietaja, some people are unable to seperate reality from surreality. I feel its perfectly acceptable for me to be inspired by Billy Joel. He has inspired me to write music, and to start learning the piano.

TV violence.. violence is only one part of "violent" shows. I have a friend who listens to loads of death metal, etc, and its so easy to easy, although good natured he is so obviously obsessed with death war and glory.

There is a line we have to tread. There will always be idiots in soceity, and there will always be violence in soceity. However, its in situations, like with eminem, that there is NO good that hes doing for soceity. he is providing no good influence, and only masochistic entertainment.

tietäjä

[Nodrog]

Eminem's music is , who cares what he's "like in real life"?

"Oh no some guy in America is constantly talking about how he is hard done by when he actually isnt wtf how dare he, I'm enraged!"

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Eminem's music is , who cares what he's "like in real life"?

"Oh no some guy in America is constantly talking about how he is hard done by when he actually isnt wtf how dare he, I'm enraged!"

Hey, that's weird. Both you and sunday think you're black!

[Deffeh]

lol lay off nodwog lol

[Sub]

I don't understand why any of you care. I also don't understand how you can say it is 'bad music'.

[Snurx]

Im gonna explain why i hate eminem and his "friends", the "gangster" rappers.

1. They bring no good things. The only thing they do, is getting a negative image out to the kids. Wery few off these rappers have actually been real gangsters, true, they have grown up in the "hood", but they are not gangsters. If you run around selling crack all day, while killing your enemies mothers and raping small girls, you 1. Dont have much time for musick 2. Would surley be locked up. So, the thing they do, is that they infulence a whole generation of (primarily) white kids that being a gangster is cool. That shooting people and smoking PCP makes you a cool kid. Of course, these are exstremes, but i think you get my meaning.
2. These people say the are "hiphop". This is wrong, but the publick thinks it is, so hiphop gets a bad name. Hiphop (the whole culture) was/is a alternative to gangbanging. The real hiphop acts preach about not being violent to your "brothers", or about fun things, or about goverment oppression, etc. Politickal, or fun, but never gangbanging. These gangsterrappers dont care about their fellow "brothers"(Meaning=poor people, other hiphopers, etc. Not neccesarily africans, or people that are darker in their skin) they are only concerned whit the "blingbling", and will do anything to get money. They are destroying the whole concept about hiphop. Sadly, beacause hiphop was/is a very good path, an alternative to gang-violence. Therefore, i dislike them, since they really are nothing but posers that are destroying something i enjoy and are a part off (The hiphop scene).
3. They create stupid fashions, like the bigpants thing.
4. Their lyricks make me sick, and i have to listen to that **** every day, on the radio.

Deffeh: If your little brother listen to that, why not try to infulence him whit some "real" rap, so you can push him in a "non-gang" way?

[roadrunner_0]

Originally posted by Deffeh
lol lay off nodwog lol

you just made me snort milk out of my nose you twat

[KoRnNut]

A few hours ago me and some others were having a bananza on eminem, too bad I didn't save the log :/

I think in the end we decided that certain elements in our mainstream media will have a negative effect on the moral fabric of our society. For the very sake of Freedom it's essential that people be given the right as human beings to decide if cholesterol, smoking, narcotics, red meat, fornication, pronography, ect...are a worthwhile part of their daily life.

It was more or less decided that any of these 'questionable activities' in life should remain simple and sometimes discreet, but available to society regardless. All of the above mentioned activities are very serious decisions for a young person being molded into an adult. Through both parenting, the education system and the occasional experimentation, decisions will be made progressively by a young adult whether to include these activities in his/her dailylifestlye during adulthood.

Whether it be Hard Core Gangster Rap Music or cigarette smoking, the moment Pop Culture starts influencing the youths of our great nations, the **** has hit the fan. Any Tobacco Industry Representative will tell you the same. You use massive marketing campaigns to target the youth(using popular cartoon characters smoking cigarettes, ect), your asking for trouble.

I often think about the days when I was very sympathetic and supportive of the pornography industry. They really did have a tough time surviving against the religious zelots and hypocritical buerocrats, in every nation(*note: pornography is still illegal in dozens of very modernized countries). Currently I give no sympathy towards an industry that has lost all self-controlsuch as pornography. Back in the day the magazines were on the top shelf behind the others, with a fairly conservative cover as well. the videos were in a room behind a black curtain. You had to be old enough to purchase them, and even if yah did see them sitting on a shelf, yah didn't see much at all.The point is pornography was simply there for those who wanted it. Often people would drive to the outskirts of town to get it. It was never forced onto anyone, yet they still wanted it outlawed. Larry Flint was 110% correct by stating that a picture of dead soldiers in a war gets you a pulitzer prize but a picture of a naked women gets you in jail. It was outrageous at the time.

Now a days you can't let your children even have an email account because 1 out of every 8 emails sent in the world is a pornography email often showing sexually explicit images inside the email or having obscene titles. Their shoving their industry down each and everyone's throats. Their industry could be shut down, sold, and never to be rebuilt as far as I am concerned.

And besides, Eminem has a team of 2 dozen corporate businessmen, all of which wear a pony-tail, sip their cafe latte, and carry around a laptop. Every lyric, every melody, every piece of clothing to be worn in public, and every public statement is handcrafted by these ass nuggets. He's a bloody posterchild for Capitalism at it's worst. He's the posterchild for everything that's every gone wrong with democracy. He might as well directly encourage Communism because he makes it look so damm tempting.

I'd like to cut off his head and drive through 3 states wearing it as a hat. heh.

[Sub]

Originally posted by Snurx
1. They bring no good things.

People like their music, so Eminem creates enjoyment for others. Where is the problem?

Do you get annoyed at movies because the actors aren't actually the people they play?

[queball]

I've always considered Eminem to be a true working class hero: he worked really hard, pissed people off, and got rich.

I hate to bring up this phrase but if you don't listen to his songs and think Eminem is a typical ganster rapper you are closed minded. His lyrics are accurate, satirical, and personal. He does rap threats to various people, but it's always intelligently done, and it adds to the power in his songs. He is an inspiring performer and rapper, and his film is ok.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Sub
People like their music, so Eminem creates enjoyment for others. Where is the problem?

Do you get annoyed at movies because the actors aren't actually the people they play?

For goodness sake read the whole thread. The poster above you for example, has, and made a valid contribution.

In short, eminem provides merely malicious, masochistic and sadistic entertainment, not the sort that should be encouraged because it has no positive side.


KoRnnut, the idiots will always take idiocy from simple things in soceity. I think you put accross your point really well. A couple of things though.

If i was to play devils advocate, id say, ok, how about we legalise the Viewing of child porn made overseas. No one is therefore, getting abused in our country, the pedos have their hobby "controlled", and although it isnt "encourageable" behaviour, its "their choice" to decide whether they like child porn or not.

Some people arent moral, or sensible enough to discern what to be able to think. Like it or not, some people have to be told what to think.

[KoRnNut]

Eminem Lyrics

Bitch I'ma kill you! Like a murder weapon, I'ma conceal you
in a closet with mildew, sheets, pillows and film you
Buck with me, I been through hell, shut the hell up!
I'm tryin to develop these pictures of the Devil to sell 'em
I ain't ask to rap, but I rap on acid
Got a new blow-up probe and just had a strap-on added
WHOOPS! Is that a subliminal hint? NO!
Just criminal intent to sodomize women again
Eminem offend? No, Eminem on assault!
And if you ever give in to him, you give him an impulse
to do it again, THEN, if he does it again
you'll probably end up jumpin out of somethin up on the 10th
(Ahhhhhhhh!)
Bitch I'ma kill you, I ain't done this ain't the chorus
I ain't even drug you in the woods yet to paint the forest
A bloodstain is orange after you wash it three or four times
in a tub but that's normal ain't it Norman?
Serial killer hidin murder material
in a cereal box on top of your stereo
Here we go again, we're out of our medicine
out of our minds, and we want in yours, let us in

Originally posted by queball
He does rap threats to various people, but it's always intelligently done

Originally posted by queball

He is an inspiring performer and rapper,

To each their own...

:/

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by queball
I've always considered Eminem to be a true working class hero: he worked really hard, pissed people off, and got rich.

I hate to bring up this phrase but if you don't listen to his songs and think Eminem is a typical ganster rapper you are closed minded. His lyrics are accurate, satirical, and personal. He does rap threats to various people, but it's always intelligently done, and it adds to the power in his songs. He is an inspiring performer and rapper, and his film is ok.

Bad use of the phrase working class hero.

Originally written by John Lennon

As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so ****ing crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still ****ing peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

Eminem is not a working class hero, because he is a malicious, uncaring hypocritical, corporate image, who invents a background, and invents a cult of mindless yobs who believe its ok to be violent if youve had a tough time in the past.

Whats clever and satirical about "ima kill you and your loud ass mother ****ing barking dog"

Talented? No.

[Sub]

Originally posted by Deffeh
In short, eminem provides merely malicious, masochistic and sadistic entertainment, not the sort that should be encouraged because it has no positive side.

It keeps the economy ticking over. You're only arguement so far is "i don't know why it is bad, but it is because i don't like it! ban it!"

[KoRnNut]

Originally posted by Deffeh

Some people arent moral, or sensible enough to discern what to be able to think. Like it or not, some people have to be told what to think.

Fair enough. I actually strongly oppose the entire idea that 'youths' are too easily influenced by things, so we need to make everything a pain in the ass for consenting adults. Some examples would be Bill Clinton's justification for a $.75 cents tax increase on cigarettes to make them 'too expensive for young smokers'. That was a 35% increase in cogarette costs back in '97 ffs. I also hate the laws that state you must present Identification to purchase cigarettes if you are under 27 years of age, or if you are under 40 years of age when purchasing alcohol.

I hate alot of society's rules that were engineered to pick up the pieces and do the job of everyone's mommies and daddies in society. I know things are more tense here in the USA than in Europe. Drinking age 21, ect...

I hate all justification involved in claiming young people in this generation are easily influenced to do things that appear to be 'cool' in Pop Culture, when bad parenting is really to blame.

At the same time, I notice it's become an irreversible, uphill battle which can never be won. Therefor I've given up entirely on the idea that our free society will one day put responsibility into the hands of parents. It's only going to get worse over the next few generations. SO....

I'm just rolling with the punches here. In a perfect society, your young children would not under any circumstances be listening to or viewing Eminem's musical performaces unless it was something you approved of. In such a case, your children can bring a weapon to school, talk about killing bitches, they can do whatever they want and nobody will be to blame but you, the parent.

[KoRnNut]

Originally posted by Deffeh
and invents a cult of mindless yobs who believe its ok to be violent if youve had a tough time in the past.

I was trying to say that as well, I just couldn't put it into the right words. Thank you.



I don't like the fact that these mindless yobs are so easily influenced by Pop Culture but sadly they are. Society wouldn't tolerate the Gun Industry marketing their handguns to youths(Picture....popular actors/athletes/musicians advertising handguns). I'm suprised society tolerates 'Bitch Ima kill you!' and all that fun stuff.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by KoRnNut
Fair enough. I actually strongly oppose the entire idea that 'youths' are too easily influenced by things, so we need to make everything a pain in the ass for consenting adults. Some examples would be Bill Clinton's justification for a $.75 cents tax increase on cigarettes to make them 'too expensive for young smokers'. That was a 35% increase in cogarette costs back in '97 ffs. I also hate the laws that state you must present Identification to purchase cigarettes if you are under 27 years of age, or if you are under 40 years of age when purchasing alcohol.

I hate alot of society's rules that were engineered to pick up the pieces and do the job of everyone's mommies and daddies in society. I know things are more tense here in the USA than in Europe. Drinking age 21, ect...

I hate all justification involved in claiming young people in this generation are easily influenced to do things that appear to be 'cool' in Pop Culture, when bad parenting is really to blame.

At the same time, I notice it's become an irreversible, uphill battle which can never be won. Therefor I've given up entirely on the idea that our free society will one day put responsibility into the hands of parents. It's only going to get worse over the next few generations. SO....

I'm just rolling with the punches here. In a perfect society, your young children would not under any circumstances be listening to or viewing Eminem's musical performaces unless it was something you approved of. In such a case, your children can bring a weapon to school, talk about killing bitches, they can do whatever they want and nobody will be to blame but you, the parent.

I truly believe youths are influenced by things. Parenting isnt the entire problem.

For an example. My brother and i have been brought up exactly the same way by our liberal, pro-labour parents, in a middle-class suburb.

thus surely, with the same home, background, parenting, and similar genetic makeup, me and my brother should both either be easily influenced by eminem, or not easily influenced.

Its all dependant on each climate. Im only seventeen, and the "phases" i went through included the last days of "modern rock", as i would call it. Like a good little clone, i wore a popular, over expensive hoody, bought band t shirts, occasionally dyed my hair. Why? Because i heard a few songs i liked, a few bands i liked (and still do), and the climate gave me an oppurtunity to express myself - by taking completely the wrong idea from a lifestyle. My friends and i would go out to a small club, listen to the music and go home. Also, it was a niche back then, and i liked to think of myself as different. Then about half a year to a year after that it started becoming popular, i looked all around me, and all i could see was phonies taking the wrong impression from harmless fun, and the quiet club of 75-100 goers, jump up to 400-500, open a new deck and raise admission prices. I didnt want anything to do with the scene any more as it wasnt what i felt it was in the beginning. Nowadays i can look back and admit i took the wrong impression too, and it hurts a bit to admit, as no one likes to admit being fake at anytime.

Dont read me wrong, i do not consider myself an adult yet, an i do not consider myself beyond influence. The difference is im old enough and clever enough to Think before choosing my idols. Popular soceity doesnt affect me, but i am heavily influenced by Billy Joel etc.

I wouldnt say my dad has done a bad job of raising us, and however i, or my brother turn out, is not his fault. Its just popular soceity. Nowadays its popular to be a thug apparently, to be a gangter and have your own gang, and "scheme". Its probably time for the resurgeance of club/dance/trance music next, and the next bunch of weak minded influencable people who sense a "niche" to attach themselves to will go out and pop pills and bigfishlittlefishcardboardbox the night away.

Off topic p0ma, were you in 504th in round 4?

Sub. Its bad because influencable people take the wrong impression. They think violence is "necessary" more often than it really is, they think Abuse of power is cool, and they habve mistaken impressions of real life.

[KoRnNut]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Popular soceity doesnt affect me, but i am heavily influenced by Billy Joel etc.

LMFAO...hahahahahaha, I'm sorry mate. I do tend to agree with you, but come on man....Billy Joel!??? fs....Even I'd fall off my moral high horse and listen to Eminem before Billy Joel!!!!....


lol....j/k dude, Billy Joel ain't too tacky I suppose, just very outdated, and your 17....so I don't understand why something popular 15 years ago where I live is popular to you

Originally posted by Deffeh
Off topic p0ma, were you in 504th in round 4?
[/b]

If memory serves correct I was in 76:13...hmm....was definately the 13th parallel anyways. Probably 76:13. Dingo was GC. Uzul was Cluster HC along with aL.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by KoRnNut
LMFAO...hahahahahaha, I'm sorry mate. I do tend to agree with you, but come on man....Billy Joel!??? fs....Even I'd fall off my moral high horse and listen to Eminem before Billy Joel!!!!....


lol....j/k dude, Billy Joel ain't too tacky I suppose, just very outdated, and your 17....so I don't understand why something popular 15 years ago where I live is popular to you




If memory serves correct I was in 76:13...hmm....was definately the 13th parallel anyways. Probably 76:13. Dingo was GC. Uzul was Cluster HC along with aL.

Heh, okay, just i knew a p0ma back in r4, wondered whether youwere the same one. Unusual nick and all

Whats wrong with Billy Joel? Imho he is the most talented songwriter of all time. He has a great vocal range, is a fantastic lyricist, its well documented how good he is on the piano, and he produced high quality music over a long period of time. As well as the tacky yet enjoyable pop tunes he did like uptown girl, river of dreams etc, he did semi-social commetaries like blonde over blue and the great wall of china, as well as EPICs like of course piano man, angry young man, state of grace, miami 2017 etc. And We didnt start the fire is the most original idea for a song of all time

Anyway.. im defending billy joel here. What i actually meant to say was, despite what you may think of billy joel's musical talents, he cannot be claimed to be a terrible influence on weak soceity like eminem can.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
I truly believe youths are influenced by things. Parenting isnt the entire problem.

While I think you raise some interesting points, I disagree with your overall take on the subject.

Personally, I find this "people are weak, they need protecting" attitude to be more dangerous than the idiotic anti-intellectual ramblings of someone like Eminem. It justifies authortarianism, censorship, etc, etc.

Looking at you and your brother, there's all manner of things that could explain possible differences. I once read a theory that said that the eldest son in any family is generally more dynamic/intelligent/strongminded than any of the other members - presumably due to more attention given or something else. While it seems hilariously unscientific on an anecdotal level it seems to be true.

Out of all the people I am close friends with (most of which are a specific type of person possibly a bit like you) all but one (out of about 12 people) are the eldest son in their family. In every single case where they have younger siblings the sibling is less academically sucessful. Coincidence? Probably. But bears some thought.

Anyway, I don't think Eminem (or any other singer) can be blamed for an increase in (say) youth crime in the UK. It's the usual reactionary story : Things are getting worse, kids are alledegly running amok (even though they're not), who shall we blame? The people who have indirectly contributed to an increase in family breakups, deeper social alienation, criminalised drug culture, etc? No, let's blame some singers!

People like Eminem (or rappers in general) are easy targets. They'll simply say something stupid in response (although to be fair, some of their retorts can often be amusing and/or witty), which is likely to be condemned by a few unthinking quasi-liberals. Meanwhile, the real people who have contributed to a systematic attack on working class living conditions laugh all the way to the bank. So let's say we get all "gangsta" rappers banned from Blue Peter. What has that achieved exactly, aside from increasing the sum total of censorship and intolerance in the media?

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
While I think you raise some interesting points, I disagree with your overall take on the subject.

Personally, I find this "people are weak, they need protecting" attitude to be more dangerous than the idiotic anti-intellectual ramblings of someone like Eminem. It justifies authortarianism, censorship, etc, etc.

Looking at you and your brother, there's all manner of things that could explain possible differences. I once read a theory that said that the eldest son in any family is generally more dynamic/intelligent/strongminded than any of the other members - presumably due to more attention given or something else. While it seems hilariously unscientific on an anecdotal level it seems to be true.

Out of all the people I am close friends with (most of which are a specific type of person possibly a bit like you) all but one (out of about 12 people) are the eldest son in their family. In every single case where they have younger siblings the sibling is less academically sucessful. Coincidence? Probably. But bears some thought.

Anyway, I don't think Eminem (or any other singer) can be blamed for an increase in (say) youth crime in the UK. It's the usual reactionary story : Things are getting worse, kids are alledegly running amok (even though they're not), who shall we blame? The people who have indirectly contributed to an increase in family breakups, deeper social alienation, criminalised drug culture, etc? No, let's blame some singers!

People like Eminem (or rappers in general) are easy targets. They'll simply say something stupid in response (although to be fair, some of their retorts can often be amusing and/or witty), which is likely to be condemned by a few unthinking quasi-liberals. Meanwhile, the real people who have contributed to a systematic attack on working class living conditions laugh all the way to the bank. So let's say we get all "gangsta" rappers banned from Blue Peter. What has that achieved exactly, aside from increasing the sum total of censorship and intolerance in the media?

Bear in mind again that i am seventeen, and i think for the first time ever on an internet forum this plays to my advantage. Im aware that i sound like an old twat. Im also aware that im in danger of sounding as if i claim to be adult - im not. Im still a youth, im still young and impressionable, and im not under any illusion.

My brother and his little friends go out and vandalise public buildings, private houses - with LCC tags, and "Thug life" and "notorious <enternamehere>" and "Only god can judge me". Would you agree or disagree that this is in fact in DIRECT attribution to gangster rap?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Would you agree or disagree that this is in fact in DIRECT attribution to gangster rap?

The things he is writing might be - the fact he is writing at all is probably not. Petty vandalism and graffiti is very common even in middle class areas (and has been for a long time, way before gangsta rap). Indeed I used to have one particularly lame friend who once wrote "Bon Jovi Rocks" over bus-stops in Penge.