Hows PA?

[Untouchable]

Hi,

I am just popping in to ask how PA is running nowadays. I havent played it think.......maybe round 4 or 5. I stopped playing cos it seemed to require a ridiculas amount of effort to be competitive in the game as Alliances got bigger and people started staying up all night to mind their planets and all that. Is it still the same now or has stuff changed abit? I assume there must be loads of alliances now? Is there any place in PA for an individual who just wants to have play or is it still not worth it unless you can join a alliance?

And also, wats the general opinion? do people prefer the new PA to the early rounds or were the early rounds the best?

Cheers.

[Vaio]

ITT Mistar Untouchable opens up a can of worms :)

This round for me was utter shite. Sorry PA but I didnt enjoy it at all. I was stuck in a round with 3 other active players and 6 that logged in maybe once a week if that. Once one of the active players exiled himself it was pretty much pointless carrying on. I have exiled myself twice and ended up in successively more shite galaxies and at this point I have no intention of logging in again.

It's all very well Jolt wanting new players and new blood, but when they can't be arsed to even make a half decent effort at playing then it's a waste of time. Perhaps Jolt could think of getting ex players who actually have a clue to return instead of new players that tie up bandwidth in the rare times they log in and, in a galaxy of only 3 buddies, don't ruin it for others.

~Vaio~

[Blixxard]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

And also, wats the general opinion? do people prefer the new PA to the early rounds or were the early rounds the best?

I believe the general view is that many enjoyed the old Planetarion. However most do agree that the current game is a lot more balanced. Also many people like the engineering and covert ops.

Originally Posted by Vaio

It's all very well Jolt wanting new players and new blood, but when they can't be arsed to even make a half decent effort at playing then it's a waste of time. Perhaps Jolt could think of getting ex players who actually have a clue to return instead of new players that tie up bandwidth in the rare times they log in and, in a galaxy of only 3 buddies, don't ruin it for others.

Jolt AND PaTeam want to see new players. The community does too. There are those I agree sign up then don't bother to login much. *hint* Exile *hint* If new players come to the game willing to play and be an active member then give them a chance.
More is being done to encourage new players. Such as the mentors which help new players to play and get started.
My general view is that we are still maintaining a strong link with the views of players like yourself. Galaxy status screen has been brought back and there continues to be improvements with the game.

[Vaio]

I have to disagree Blixxard, what you are doing is getting in new players on free accounts, in my original galaxy there were 3 that had paid, the rest hadn't. 6 of the free accounts didn't see the need to make an effort as they had not wasted any money to play. I had, as had the other 2. For us, the round was ruined once we realised that we were the only paid accounts.

I have to believe that the amount of new players that actually paid for a planet is very very low in comparison to the ones on free accounts due to my experiences this round. The only way you are going to get a decent amount of active players is to encourage ex players to return and bring friends with them to show them how to play. Mentors are not enough, do they show players how to organise an alliance properly ? how to get effective defence ? how to attack and consistantly gain ?

I really can't see how you are maintaining a strong like with 'veteran' players when game is being more and more tailored towards new players and as they are unable to compete against the rest the majority won't stick around.

~Vaio~

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by Vaio

I have to disagree Blixxard, what you are doing is getting in new players on free accounts, in my original galaxy there were 3 that had paid, the rest hadn't. 6 of the free accounts didn't see the need to make an effort as they had not wasted any money to play. I had, as had the other 2. For us, the round was ruined once we realised that we were the only paid accounts.

I have to believe that the amount of new players that actually paid for a planet is very very low in comparison to the ones on free accounts due to my experiences this round. The only way you are going to get a decent amount of active players is to encourage ex players to return and bring friends with them to show them how to play. Mentors are not enough, do they show players how to organise an alliance properly ? how to get effective defence ? how to attack and consistantly gain ?

This is in a nutshell what we have been trying. But we have only made a small start on getting some of them to improve themselves. There is a lot to be done still.

I really can't see how you are maintaining a strong like with 'veteran' players when game is being more and more tailored towards new players and as they are unable to compete against the rest the majority won't stick around.

~Vaio~

It has been made possible for new players to survive and flourish in this game. No the new players won't win straight away, but with only a bit of help they can attack successfully and have fun. Most of the changes to the game after PaX was created are more or less a return to old PA, most of the time on a request from the 'veterans'. One of the major wishes of many veteran players is to have more players. That is slowly being achieved. I expect more players next round than this round.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Vaio

Mentors are not enough, do they show players how to organise an alliance properly ? how to get effective defence ? how to attack and consistantly gain ?
~Vaio~

yes, we do, thats one of our key roles. We have worked with quite a few alliances to help them in this area as well as other officer related areas e.g. recruitment. However lots of alliances do not want help, and where that is the case there is very little we can do.

I'd also like to point out that lots of old players have returned due to the effort the community is putting in. the community. PATeam and jotl are putting in more effort than ever to increase the active playerbase, and this can be seen by the huge increase in paid accounts from last round.

The next round gal setup will be designed in order to reduce some of the effects we saw this round with inactives. All people who pay before the game gets going should have no problem getting into a gal with other active people.

[DrunkenViking]

Originally Posted by Vaio

Mentors are not enough, do they show players how to organise an alliance properly ? how to get effective defence ? how to attack and consistantly gain ?

NoS has accepted quite a few ppl thats been through the mentor guidance, and i can say that you're not questioning this the right way. Mentors give them the basics, and its up to the newbies to evolve from there. I believe mentors advice them to apply for a medium or small alliance to gain experience? And the feeling i get from the ppl NoS has picked up are that the general standards of the understanding from the newbies are that they do get it. All they need is a couple rounds worth of experience and a good galaxy, and they'll be just as hooked as the rest of us, and they will be considered vets at one point themself.

Basic line: mentors cant give them the experience, the alliances out there can, and must.

Starting an alliance? team up with someone thats played lots of rounds and are familiar. Trick is, avoid starting an alliance if you have no real idea how to make it function. Many medium/small alliances have a constant need of new command staff, may it be BC's or other tasks. Show interest, talk to the HC, and ask for a job with more responsibility.

[Gunn3r]

Actually, I am a free account but that's just because I started late and I am more then caring about my account... Playing it like if I was in a run for top 10 :P I'm trying to make my gal learn and everything, but most of them are inactive and after the first day, they don't care anymore. I got like 4 of them to use IRC, saw them once, and then they never came back online. There's only one of them over about 15(exile, deletation) since I joined the galaxy that will certainly play and pay next round.

He's willing and uber active, really nice fellow
This being said, I sort of agree with Vaio, most peoples just doesn't care and doesn't want to understand, they don't care, just log in, build ships and then log out using freebies, IT IS annoying.

If we could add 1/10 of freebies as ppls that will play nx round seriously then it'd be a good ratio, but imo it's more something like 1 freebie in 30-40.

But.. what else can we do? honestly..

anyway..

I'll shut my half-drunk mouth now

[cypher]

too bad those mentors usually aint too bright themselves in terms of alliance play:S no offence:/

[Kal]

Originally Posted by cypher

too bad those mentors usually aint too bright themselves in terms of alliance play:S no offence:/

u don't even know who the mentors are

[Gerbie]

I bet he's just referring to me Kal.

[DrunkenViking]

Kal knows his mil hc stuff

[Gunn3r]

Originally Posted by Kal

u don't even know who the mentors are

Nah, that one was for me, don't worry, he's still bitter after stuffs from 5-6 rounds ago

I bet he can't even remember why.

[malys]

I'm a newby too, I've played PA in rounds 3 and 4. About two weeks ago I started up again.
I came into a galaxy about 7 mil. so I thought this ain't too bad, so I started mailing the ministers but I've never received anything back. Now I'm the player with the highest score about 1 mil.
The great problem for the newbies is landing into a completly inactive galaxy. I don't even think about getting an paid acount this round because if I would grew some larger I would be getting roid constantly and there would be no one who would send me defence.
I remember the first round I played Pa, I came into a rally active galaxy, we had alliances and I really enjoyed it, this round really sucks if you don't have any good connections and aren't playing in the top.

So I think we should somehow get rid of the inactive players.

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by malys

I'm a newby too, I've played PA in rounds 3 and 4. About two weeks ago I started up again.
I came into a galaxy about 7 mil. so I thought this ain't too bad, so I started mailing the ministers but I've never received anything back. Now I'm the player with the highest score about 1 mil.
The great problem for the newbies is landing into a completly inactive galaxy. I don't even think about getting an paid acount this round because if I would grew some larger I would be getting roid constantly and there would be no one who would send me defence.
I remember the first round I played Pa, I came into a rally active galaxy, we had alliances and I really enjoyed it, this round really sucks if you don't have any good connections and aren't playing in the top.

So I think we should somehow get rid of the inactive players.

You are right. All you can do in such a situation is save some resources and exile and hope you land in a better galaxy. But it's too late for that now. You should be able to land in a decent galaxy next round if you play right from the start.

[malys]

I found out too late about exiling to another galaxy. But I tried to join an alliance today, SU. So I hope I can come into an active galaxy next round.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Kal

yes, we do, thats one of our key roles. We have worked with quite a few alliances to help them in this area as well as other officer related areas e.g. recruitment. However lots of alliances do not want help, and where that is the case there is very little we can do.

I'd also like to point out that lots of old players have returned due to the effort the community is putting in. the community. PATeam and jotl are putting in more effort than ever to increase the active playerbase, and this can be seen by the huge increase in paid accounts from last round.

The next round gal setup will be designed in order to reduce some of the effects we saw this round with inactives. All people who pay before the game gets going should have no problem getting into a gal with other active people.

The only alliances that will accept the help you give are ones that will have little if any experience at PA. They are the ones that usually get wiped out. At the risk of getting accusations of bias, the mentors could run their own alliance although the bias accusations probably won't reach the usual level thrown at 1up/Fury over the rounds.

Everytime I have asked either directly or indirectly, the same question is being ignored. Out of the accounts paid for this round, how many are new and how many are returning ? You have a list of email addresses, and I would think you have a list of email addresses from last round, you could at least make an educated guess.

~Vaio~

[DrunkenViking]

why cant admins close free accounts every 14 days whom hasnt been logged into nor put in vacationmode?

[Vaio]

Why wait 14 days ?

~Vaio~

[Kal]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

why cant admins close free accounts every 14 days whom hasnt been logged into nor put in vacationmode?

we delete them after 7 days, or rather the ticker does

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Vaio

Everytime I have asked either directly or indirectly, the same question is being ignored. Out of the accounts paid for this round, how many are new and how many are returning ? You have a list of email addresses, and I would think you have a list of email addresses from last round, you could at least make an educated guess.

~Vaio~

Actually we do not keep email addresses other than thoose with left over credits - also even if we did we would need more than just one rounds worth to look at returning players. I would however say that a lot of the new paid planets this round are probably returning players as I know 1up and HR for example took in a lot of them.

[Forest]

I think the big problem this round, was that free accounts werent distrubuted in an even way, so that some ppl ended with 10 free planets and some with 10 paid.

I have made the suggestion to pateam that they limit free planets, to say, 2 per gal, to even this up somewhat. It would also make free planets 'something ppl wait for', rather than just handing em out willynilly. Anyone wanting a [planet wouldnt automatically be guarenteed one and would have to use a waiting list.
The reply was that this would limit new players joining, so they wont be doing it (basically they value new planets tat never get logged into, over long time players).

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

I think the big problem this round, was that free accounts werent distrubuted in an even way, so that some ppl ended with 10 free planets and some with 10 paid.

I have made the suggestion to pateam that they limit free planets, to say, 2 per gal, to even this up somewhat. It would also make free planets 'something ppl wait for', rather than just handing em out willynilly. Anyone wanting a [planet wouldnt automatically be guarenteed one and would have to use a waiting list.
The reply was that this would limit new players joining, so they wont be doing it (basically they value new planets tat never get logged into, over long time players).

there are other solutions u know...

[cypher]

actually i wasn't talking about either one of the two who felt spoken too... but was talking about the people in general:S

they are ok people and on average quite nice, prolly know alot about the game aswell but hc stuff and intel and military isn't their strongest point to teach so to say

and no gunner cuz tbh i've never cared about you:S even tho you like to think so hehe
and gerbie you are a nice person, cept your intel knowledge and all is funny:P

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Kal

there are other solutions u know...

Shame u chose not to use them either

BBL

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

Shame u chose not to use them either

BBL

I'm actually quite fond of the current solution we are debating, it should work much better than things did this round, but lots still needs discussing so we can;t say anything yet.

[Forest]

My point being that, when a major problem is shown within 2 days of round, and solutions consistently raised within two weeks, its simply unacceptable that we wait a minimum of 8 weeks for the round to finish to put them in place.

You do have other competitors you know, and with this new one popping probably before start of your new round, and with the command team in place, you may not have a new round.

Discussions are futile, if you don't act until your finished.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

My point being that, when a major problem is shown within 2 days of round, and solutions consistently raised within two weeks, its simply unacceptable that we wait a minimum of 8 weeks for the round to finish to put them in place.

You do have other competitors you know, and with this new one popping probably before start of your new round, and with the command team in place, you may not have a new round.

Discussions are futile, if you don't act until your finished.

we can't just recode the game during the round for the current round u know.

It did become apparent quite quickly that the way buddy packs were placed was far from ideal, but becuase of the design of the system it would have bene virtually impossible to correct from it within the first few days fo the round and any later corrections would have annoyed a lot of people as a solution would have had to involved a shuffle and no one wants one of thoose 3 weeks into a round.

The evidence shows that people enjoyed this round on the whole compared to last round and that although some were dissatisifed with the problem of inactives, the problem is not the number of free accounts in a galaxy. Free accounts are fine if they are active. The design for next round is designed in such a way that all people who signup and pay early enough have the same opportunities to have a minimum number of paid accounts in their gal. That minimum will be higher than the current minimum of 3.

[Forest]

Deleting inactive planets quicker than 7 days, like after 48 hours and deleting those planets that get created and never logged into within 12 hours, does not require a complete recode. In addition, moving planets to a seperate universe that arent logged into within 36 hours or so, and moving em back to our universe when they log in, really shouldnt be that hard.

And whilst I agree the problem isn't in free planets, but inactive ones, I suggest u take a look at the free planets, and percentage of inactives, and then do the same with the paid planets, and see it is quite simple to limit the problem.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

Deleting inactive planets quicker than 7 days, like after 48 hours and deleting those planets that get created and never logged into within 12 hours, does not require a complete recode. In addition, moving planets to a seperate universe that arent logged into within 36 hours or so, and moving em back to our universe when they log in, really shouldnt be that hard.

And whilst I agree the problem isn't in free planets, but inactive ones, I suggest u take a look at the free planets, and percentage of inactives, and then do the same with the paid planets, and see it is quite simple to limit the problem.

I think 12 hours is a bit harsh for registering and never logging in, i'd allow at least a day for that.

Seperate universe is hard, and certainly not worth the time and effort when one could simply delete them sooner. The question is what is a fair amount of time. For example a few times last round my internet went down for a number of days at a time - had i been a free planet under a harsh scheme I would have been deleted due to not being able to enter vacation mode.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Kal

I think 12 hours is a bit harsh for registering and never logging in, i'd allow at least a day for that.

And here we hit the nail on the head.

PATeam dont play the round, so they dont see the problems.

And they dont see how delays prlong the situation.

[Blixxard]

Originally Posted by Kal

we delete them after 7 days, or rather the ticker does

It's back to 14 now. Like it says in the manual. to avoid confusion.

[Forest]

Couldnt u just change the manual

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

And here we hit the nail on the head.

PATeam dont play the round, so they dont see the problems.

And they dont see how delays prlong the situation.

of course we see the problems, but i'm sure a gal can live with an inactive for a day can't they?

[Forest]

We could yes.

Its not 1 day though.

Its 14 days, per inactive, and as soon as they go, new ones take their place.

You can exile em out, but they just get replaced by new ones, so that was a waste of time.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

We could yes.

Its not 1 day though.

Its 14 days, per inactive, and as soon as they go, new ones take their place.

You can exile em out, but they just get replaced by new ones, so that was a waste of time.

there is a shorter deletion time for thoose that have never logged in i believe, although thta might just be for unacitvated accounts - i can;t check the code from work unfortunatly. If it is only for thoose that are unacitvated it should be easy enough for spinenr to change it to encompass thoose that have not logged in as well. All of this stuff (gals, exiles, inactives) is due for completely finalising this week, subject to tweaking and feedback in betas etc.

[Forest]

So its due for finalising this week, and it took 10 weeks to finalise it ?

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

Kal knows his mil hc stuff

No he doesn't.. just look what kind of shit BC he trained me into

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

So its due for finalising this week, and it took 10 weeks to finalise it ?

the precise fomulae for next round forest, of course we have been discussing various ideas all round, however there has been no clear winner in terms of effectiveness, ease of implementation etc. A lot of it is allready pretty much decided, it just needs a final think about before it can be announced, thats not to say its not allready in the round 12 development version.

Its also worth pointing out that during the early/middle parts of a round there are rather a lot of things that need doing so next round development is not at the top of the list, whereas it is now and has been for a while, but there were many other things to discuss other than gals/exiles/inactives e.g. changes to admin system to better combat cheating, new features, new layout, none game related things (portal/forums etc). There is a lot to get done, it just happens that this week the things i mentioned should be getting sorted.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Nadar

No he doesn't.. just look what kind of shit BC he trained me into

good point, but then u never did do as u were told.

[Forest]

U miss the point.

There may of been other things to do that means r12 development isnt at top of list.

What im saying, is that the exiles/aincive/free round stuff should of been R11 development, and sorted as soon as it became a problem, rather than left.

All u have achived is to bulk out the universe with a load of crap that does onthing, and ruined many mnay ppl's rounds in the process.

[DrunkenViking]

Originally Posted by Forest

Deleting inactive planets quicker than 7 days, like after 48 hours.

ffs. can you pls take into consideration that some ppl got a life? if i go out to drink on a thrusday, i sometimes dont realise where i am till sunday. So when i sober up on monday, i'm gonna find my account closed? no thanks.

[Forest]

Do u have a paid planet?

We are discussing ppl who sign up free planets and never use em.

And all thos eguys who create loads of accounts to get one in a certain galaxy etc, and subsequently see loads of free, unused planets exiled from galaxy to galaxy doing nothing at all.

And tbh if u havent got a paid planet, then u could have no complaints.

[DrunkenViking]

i have paid...but seriously....if you're gonna really preassure new ppl to start playing this game....then you might aswell start digging the planetarion grave and dump it.
48 hrs.... have to give them at least 4 days.
What about those with divorced parents and have to visit the other parent every now and then? what about those who play football and have tournaments for a weekend? And what if they want to try out planetarion aswell, just for half a round to see if it's fun? I'm sure they'll start playing if they find their planet deleted because they couldnt log in for 2 days. Hell, my connection back home at my parents house drop out for a couple days every month.

[Forest]

What about those who pay?

What about those who want a winning galaxy?

What about those who stay up all night watching their galaxy?

Do they not deserve to be allowed a proper chance at winning, or should we bow to the pressures of free planets that are not used, in the hope that the odd one or two will stay.

If the previous idea was adopted, such as limit free planets per galaxy to 2 planets, then there would be no shortage of ppl stepping up to play, and they would be more worried about keeping the account.

We have had, what, 9 rounds of trying to get new planets rather than keep the ones we already have, and I dont see that its worked so far.

[Kal]

ok atm it is:

14 days for inactivity
7 days if closed
3 days if unused

next round it will be different etc, but some debate about what the numbers should be may be useful.

[Forest]

Free planets:
72 hours for inactivity
96 hours if closed
24 hours if unused


Paid planets
14 days for inactivity
7 days if closed
96 hours if unused

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Forest

Free planets:
72 hours for inactivity
96 hours if closed
24 hours if unused


Paid planets
14 days for inactivity
7 days if closed
96 hours if unused

a paid planet can't be unused as u need to login to upgrade yourself. I think personally that 7 days can often not be long enough to deal with an account closure espeically if they start complaining and aksing to speak to your boss etc etc, so 96 hours is really unfeasible. For the rest it seams reasonable if a harsh system was decided upon.

I assume you wish vacation mode to make inacitves exempt from deletion?

[Vaio]

If you have paid for a planet and don't use it for 96 hours then you really don't deserve one, besides, just alter the user agreement and point them to it.

~Vaio~

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Vaio

If you have paid for a planet and don't use it for 96 hours then you really don't deserve one, besides, just alter the user agreement and point them to it.

~Vaio~

its IMPOSSIBLE for a paid planet to be unused - unused means never logged into - u have to login to upgrade it.