Planetarion Forums

Appocomaster · 1 Feb 2006, 22:23

<Appocomaster> hi
<Appocomaster> people are getting in before it starts I see
<Appocomaster> a couple of minutes to wait
<Appocomaster> if you wish to ask a question, CH_Bot is willing to take any questions you wish
<AppocoCH> hi
<AppocoCH> I think we're ready to start
<AppocoCH> luckily, having only 2 questions at the start of today, we have around 30 now
<AppocoCH> should keep me busy
<AppocoCH> Hello everoyne, and welcome to the latest Creators Hour
<AppocoCH> as is becoming usual, it's my ugly mug you all get to see
<AppocoCH> Most of them are around
<AppocoCH> but they've realised I like the sound of my voice, and as the channel is +m it can't get any quieter
<Assassin> walla
<AppocoCH> anyyway
<Assassin> lo btw phil

<AppocoCH> The round is started, with the usual few contraversys
<AppocoCH> I don't think it's possible to start a round without everyone being unhappy with the shuffle and 1-2 other game features
<AppocoCH> As most of what I have to say is covered by questions, let's get on with the questions
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 1): <CrueltyOrchid> According to the manual, times are rounded down. When I do the calculations for a Cathaar planet, 2nd priority engineer on construction, I get 8,3 hours. ACcording to that, I should get 8 hours construction time, but the game gives me 9. Why?
<AppocoCH> in the manual, the constructions stack. cathaar bonuses, plus research labs, plus engineering, give quite a hefty bonus - 40% or so
<AppocoCH> oh o.O construction
<AppocoCH> sorry
<AppocoCH> constructions for cathaars are slower
<AppocoCH> 80% of 12 ticks, +1 tick penalty for being cathaar = 9.4 ticks
<AppocoCH> which is 9 ticks
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 2): <[ND]SteInMetz> "Is it a requirement to suck at playing the game if you want to be PA-Team?" :P
<Assassin> lol
<AppocoCH> no - Squishy is playing as much as he can, and I'm playing a bit. notice we've almost all gone zik to steal your ships

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 3): <[FC]Cm> Why do the forums have a "reputation" system? This from my experience is vastly abused and often used as a method of annomolously attacking someone, which then dispersuades large sections of the community from participating in this medium. This often restricts the range of views that players give as conflicting views are not shown out of fear of attack. Would the forums be better if this feature is removed? (Answer = YES!

)
<AppocoCH> http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...wpost&t=189435 is the short answer to this
<AppocoCH> I know a few people are upset about the reputation system - even I cry when I see I get neg repped! - and some people take it more seriously than others
<AppocoCH> I know the mods are talking about the rep system and what to do about it
<AppocoCH> and the URL given above allows non mods to talk about it and discuss what should be done
<AppocoCH> on the one hand, freedom of speech is great, but people often abuse the fact you can't see who's neg repping you
<AppocoCH> on the other hand, if you knew people could see who was neg repping you, then you'd probably not neg rep
<AppocoCH> it's not meant to be a hugely important thing, but if you want to comment you can on the URL given above
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 4): <logamus> with the exceptions down, who do we speak to if we need an exception?
<AppocoCH> this is Assassin's Q

<Assassin> wow
<Assassin> ok
<Assassin> well
<Assassin> as im sure your all aware the exception system hasnt bin up, and im afraid wont be up this round either Appologise for this. So now you will need to contact me on my email at [email protected] with your coords and the persons coords sharing your ip
<Assassin> also here:
<Assassin> http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=189492
<Assassin> plz have a read of this
<Assassin> for the rules ect
<Assassin> over back to you then mr Appoc

<AppocoCH> :P
<AppocoCH> you forgot the magic words!
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 5): <MyFakeName|AFK> Are there plans to publish pictures of any of the PA Team in dresses?
<AppocoCH> actually, Squishy raised his hand for this
<Assassin> he got quite excited
<AppocoCH> he was going to find a kilt, which is the nearest we're going to get atm
<AppocoCH> rumours are that Kloopy has a picture of him in a dress
<Assassin> although
<Assassin> for amusement i may do one for the end of the round
<Assassin> and put it as 1:1s banner
<AppocoCH> unfortunately, no one's managed to get me into one so I can't participate. I'm sure I'd look great with lots of clevage and a short skirt showing off my hairy legs
<Assassin>

<AppocoCH> if Kloopy gets me drunk in a couple of weeks time, I may well get into a dress
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 6): <phoen[ix]> Can it be like this that good galaxies get exiles that are active and have good score and people that are not so good or get exiled out from an galaxy because of their activity get into a not so good gal ?
<AppocoCH> exile in general is quite a fun topic to discuss
<AppocoCH> we'll hear more about it later

<AppocoCH> basically, the problem with putting good people in good gals and bad people in bad gals
<AppocoCH> is that all the good people end up in the top 1-2 galaxies
<AppocoCH> and everyone else gets beaten to death
<AppocoCH> we'd prefer to have more galaxies of similar abilities that can compete
<AppocoCH> there's several theories on the layout of the universe and galaxies
<AppocoCH> one is to try and make all galaxies as equal as possible with the shuffle
<AppocoCH> and then allow almost no movement between them
<AppocoCH> at the moment, this is the closest we're to I guess, (the shuffle needs working on, I've been doodling new designs that might make the galaxies better)
<AppocoCH> there's other ways - putting good people in good gals, bad people in bad gals
<AppocoCH> or good people in bad gals, bad people in good gals to try and "even it up"
<AppocoCH> make all galaxies the same size
<AppocoCH> personally, i prefer a slightly obscure one which creates lots of galaxies about the same size near the middle of the universe
<AppocoCH> depending on "activity"
<AppocoCH> working out how active someone is is another issue - xp, score, times logged in, value, .. how to decide how active people are?
<AppocoCH> I'm sure we'll see threads on this in the future

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 7): <Snowie> Have you invented a new mathmatical operator! What was the answer to this question? -> http://www.letsgetfree.com/wtf.jpg
<AppocoCH> yes
<AppocoCH> we've had issues about the login question
<AppocoCH> Kloopy changed the fonts origionally because a nice gif was publicised (apparently no one actually had the code for that particular one) that basically read the question, matched it up against a question database, and automatiacally logged in
<AppocoCH> he's apparently going to be adjusting some of the sizes and so on
<AppocoCH> so that they're more easy to read
<AppocoCH> and fit on the graphic

<AppocoCH> I'm not sure if we'll return to the original questions - we do need to take some steps
<AppocoCH> whether changing the questions or changing the way they're generated or something
<AppocoCH> you're welcome to suggest other methods on the forums

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 8): <Zeke> question: This is a free round, but will the top 3 players and the winning galaxy still be rewarded with 1 credit for next round?
<AppocoCH> yes!
<AppocoCH> definately
<AppocoCH> er
<Assassin> indeed
<AppocoCH> the winning galaxy gets 5, and so does the winning alliance
<AppocoCH> I think
<Assassin> Need somthing to play for as always
<AppocoCH>

<AppocoCH> so don't stop playing
<AppocoCH> also, those roids people are stealing off us are worth a credit each too
<AppocoCH> so try and get your hands on one!
<AppocoCH> (they work now, I promise!)
<Assassin> (i want mine back btw)
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 9): <Vikman> What was the reason behind the exile rule change? Becuause it is very annoying...
<AppocoCH> Well, this is related to the question above
<AppocoCH> we were trialling it to see if it improved galaxies in general, and forced them to play together more
<AppocoCH> some of the reactions on the forums seem to suggest this isn't the case
<AppocoCH> I can't promise any changes for this round though
<AppocoCH> Some echo of the idea for next round might still be here - if you're in a buddy pack, self exile is more expensive, and so on
<AppocoCH> but I don't think we'll see this rule again
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 10): <Razgriz> As a veteran of the game i've seen PA change so much. The most recent chage being the buddypack exile rule, people i've spoken to describe it as "The worst turn PA Team made" and i have to agree. I'm sure if you've seen the forums recently there is a debate going on about it. What is PA Team going to do about this rule?
<AppocoCH> just answered this

<AppocoCH> this is the beginning of "razgriz 20 mins" btw
<AppocoCH> btw, if buddy packs are really inactive / closed, we are exiling them to c200
<AppocoCH> I closed a galaxy today because it was poor even by c200 standards
<AppocoCH> and all closed buddy packed people get thrown into c200

<AppocoCH> if people are really inactive after 4-5 days, tell us and we'll hopefully move them
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 11): <Razgriz> Me again

i was just wondering where PA team stands on the reputation system we have on the forum... a fair few justifies complaints there...
<AppocoCH> ^^ answered above
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 12): <Razgriz> seen as PAN will not be going ahead as planned, what can we expect to see change in near future rounds?
<AppocoCH> well, having the PAN thing fall around our ears a bit, we're obviously not going to be so concrete
<AppocoCH> Kloopy wants to code new things though, and he's talking to a few members of the community to help him code part time
<AppocoCH> so we should have some updates for R17, as stated
<AppocoCH> (stated on the portal - http://www.planetarion.com/news.php )
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 13): <Razgriz> From an ally member: will there be any screenshots or previews of the new interface for next round?
<AppocoCH> when it's coded - Kloopy and co will go through, I'm not sure that he / they have decided exactly what they're doing as he's a bit busy atm, but he's finalising the team and then they'll get underway
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 14): <Razgriz> from another ally member: Is there going to be a new race? There's been alot of debate about this subject
<AppocoCH> Not at the moment
<AppocoCH> we did have a few PS threads on this
<AppocoCH> (planetarion suggestion threads)
<AppocoCH> but until we change things like the combat engine and related, it won't really happen
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 15): <AppocoCH> also, those roids people are stealing off us are worth a credit each too ?--does this mean that the person who holds each one longest gets the credit or the person who holds any one longest? In short, are there 6 credits for these or 1?
<AppocoCH> 6 credits
<AppocoCH> whoever holds each of the 6 roids for the longest gets one each
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 16): <Razgriz> Just a simple one; any chance of making the "There's an exile running" text on the overview bigger? If you're not looking for it it's hard to see.
<AppocoCH> I guess this might be possible
<AppocoCH>

<AppocoCH> I know that some people panic whenever we write things in red on the MOTD
<AppocoCH> as they think there's an exile vote
<AppocoCH> we'll try and make it clearer
<AppocoCH> you should mail people to tell them there's an exile running!
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 17): <Razgriz> a few people have asked about this: Any chance of being able to trade resources directly with galaxy members cutting the galaxy fund out?
<AppocoCH> no, i don't think so - with buddy packs, you'd get mass donating
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 18): <Smudge> * Whats going to be happening with PA:N with the changes in PA Team? Will we carry on with current Game as itself or will it be slowly worked on?
<AppocoCH> PAN as such I don't think will be coded from scratch at the current time
<AppocoCH> atm we'll update things and maybe code a couple of things from scratch
<AppocoCH> but coding the whole game is quite a lot of work
<AppocoCH> both designing and coding, really
<AppocoCH> I think it depends on how our coding output ends up
<AppocoCH> which reminds me - if anyone wants to help out with graphics in some way / shape / form (MrLobster seems to be doing enough skins for the next 10 rounds...), then feel free to contact us. We do need more graphics, even if I can't precisely list what we want graphics for yet

- portal graphics is a good start
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 19): <Smudge> * Will exceptions be seen this round at all?
<AppocoCH> as Assassin has said, this isn't looking too good
<Assassin> (unfortunatly)
<AppocoCH> it's a bit embarassing, tbh
<AppocoCH> Kloopy feels awful about it
<AppocoCH> but every time he looks at the code it makes him feel worse than an Irish hangover the day after st. patricks
<Assassin> So, again just drop me an email or drop by #multihunters and speak to us for now
<AppocoCH> his computer breaks / dies / explodes / runs out of battery / oven blows up
<AppocoCH> really, some of the stories ...

<AppocoCH> and some RL issues are rearing their heads for him atm
<AppocoCH> in general, people on the same IP just shouldn't attack the same galaxies or defend each other too much
<AppocoCH> or be obviously cheating (you'd be surprised how many people have the same password sometimes

)
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 20): * Will there be any advertising offline (ie magazine ads) for PA:N if it occurs?
<AppocoCH> no
<AppocoCH> I've spoken to biffy, and Jolt prefer to advertise online
<AppocoCH> ah!
<AppocoCH> a use for graphics
<AppocoCH> if anyone has pretty banners / PA graphics for advertising
<AppocoCH> we'd love them
<AppocoCH> I still need to hunt alch down and shake all his old banners out of him
<Assassin> indeed
<AppocoCH> that he mentioned he still had on the forums thread
<Assassin> bring back the old day graphics ppl

<AppocoCH> biffy is finally getting something out of the jolt graphics person it seems
<AppocoCH> he has places for Jolt to advertise for Planetarion
<AppocoCH> but we need something to advertise with!
<AppocoCH> also, if people want to design merchandise for us, that's another thing you can do
<AppocoCH> if I can find the design requirements, things for mugs, t-shirts, etc
<AppocoCH> I'll put them on the forums
<AppocoCH> if I haven't done it within the next 2 days, someone poke me

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 21): <Smudge> * Will the alliance stay at 50 for further rounds or are there plans for it to go back to a larger number?
<AppocoCH> I think it's going to have to go back up
<AppocoCH> it's partly my fault
<AppocoCH> I think it'd be better around 60-65 as a minimum limit
<AppocoCH> if not higher
<AppocoCH> I know a few people will be happy about that

<AppocoCH> but it's given the chance for a few new alliances to spring up, as you can see
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 22): <Smudge> * Is Kloopy feeling any better?
<AppocoCH> yes, until he looks at exceptions
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 23): <[Dark]Spirit> Will the amount of speed and capture the flag games between future rounds be the same as it is now?
<AppocoCH> usually we do about 1:1
<AppocoCH> (in ratios)
<AppocoCH> speedgames are nice
<AppocoCH> someone mentioned a world cup
<Assassin>

<AppocoCH> as the last world cup was quite popular
<AppocoCH> that sounds like a lot of work though

<AppocoCH> I'm not sure how it works, I missed the last one
<AppocoCH> if someone wants to explain it on PD, then

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 24): <Razgriz> I'm sorry this is my last one

Any chnce of building in a cluster alliance page much like the alliance page we have now? Although i'm not a big cluster alliance fan myself those who re will appreciate this and it may even bring new dynamics to the game
<AppocoCH> we had this in one of Kal's designs a month or two ago
<AppocoCH> it eventually got phased out - at the moment, cluster alliances aren't really popular
<AppocoCH> and reintroducing general -1 cluster stuff, or even -2 defence -1 attack in cluster, will really cause problems as most people rely on alliances at the moment
<AppocoCH> and so there'll be lots of xans in alliances to save the day

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 25): <egg> I'm just coming back to pa from a few rounds having a life.. so who's who and whos important in pa nowdays? apart from me ofc!
<AppocoCH> there's a link on the portal with a pretty picture, actually
<AppocoCH> http://www.planetarion.com/Job-Titles.png
<AppocoCH> unfortunately, egg isn't there
<AppocoCH> however, as soon as I get access, I'll try and put some sort of egg on there - maybe an easter one

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 26): <Gabz0r> Will the Urwins ever return ?
<AppocoCH> I don't know
<AppocoCH> I know they were some sort of mini community / battle group / etc
<AppocoCH> all I ever really had in terms of contact with them was 12 access in their channel from answering questions from Vanxbot
<AppocoCH> I'm afraid someone else would have to comment on that
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 27): <Pilgrim> What is the alliance limit this round?
<AppocoCH> the alliance this round is as follows (I checked it earlier today!)
<AppocoCH> basically, until.. well, yesterday
<AppocoCH> you had a gloabl limit of 50 planets in an alliance
<AppocoCH> since then, if you have 50 or more planets in the top 5 alliances, you can't accept any more planets
<AppocoCH> if you're not in the top 5, you can accept a new recruit every 20 - $current_alliance_rank ticks
<AppocoCH> (a miniumum of every 1 tick))
<AppocoCH> so, if you're rank 10 and you accepted a new person in tick 100
<AppocoCH> you can't (or shouldn't be able to) accept anyone until tick 110
<AppocoCH> assuming you're ranked 10th at rank 110
<AppocoCH> if you wait until tick 120, you can still only accept 1 person
<AppocoCH>

<AppocoCH> hope that's clearer
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 28): <ReligFree> Seems that the stats for this round are highly in favour of Terrans. Do you think a Terran will win the round? If not what race do you think has the biggest advantage and therefore best chance of winning?
<AppocoCH> Terrans deserve a chance to win this round tbh
<AppocoCH> Cath were the winners when I did the stats
<AppocoCH> both times
<AppocoCH> because I heart EMP
<AppocoCH> and generally stick an extra 10 damage on any value Jester dares to give
<AppocoCH> Zik might do quite well
<AppocoCH> they usually do
<Assassin> (btw if your a zik i hope you love the Assassin ship

)
<AppocoCH> and they have faster stealers than I ever did
<AppocoCH> we'll see though

<AppocoCH> Cathaar Cr is quite powerful
<AppocoCH> with only the Rogue being a real threat (I think?)
<AppocoCH> but I think that'll just mean everyone builds their anti cr ship - which is also part of their pod fleet
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 29): <Stoom> Why didn't PA-team (or whoever is 'responsible') pay more attention to advertising? This round has even less players then in a p2p round. This shouldn't have to be the case imo.
<AppocoCH> mentioned above, we have thought of it!
<AppocoCH> we need something to advertise WITH
<AppocoCH> also
<AppocoCH> I think that we're actually at around the same amount of planets as last round
<AppocoCH> and we've deleted most of the inactive ones

<AppocoCH> whereas last round we didn't
<Assassin> (and closed a few)
<AppocoCH> we had 300-500 signups since the round started
<AppocoCH> well, 300 fully upgraded accounts
<AppocoCH> so things are looking better
<AppocoCH> I think we also have more galaxies than last round
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 30): <Space_Wolf> Will PA ever go back to the time where GCs could invite members to join their galaxy? Or will buddypacks continue to be in place?
<AppocoCH> I'm not sure what the future galaxy state will be
<AppocoCH> we might well keep on with some buddy pack idea
<AppocoCH> I'd like to at least see an idea of inviting someone who's signed up after tick 36 to your galaxy
<AppocoCH> at a rate of 1 per galaxy
<AppocoCH> so you can get an extra person in
<AppocoCH> so people who sign up late don't feel so sad
<AppocoCH> also, i'm not against having smaller private galaxies and the rest being semi private - basically as now
<AppocoCH> with buddy packs of around 4 + randoms
<AppocoCH> vs galaxies of say up to 8 private players
<AppocoCH>

<AppocoCH> we'll see how that goes - another thing for the forums, I think
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 31): <kupo> The bot checking was bad enough before, why did you have to make it even harder? I find it hard to believe a group of elite AI hackers are targetting your images. Please change it to a simple 3 letter code or justify this outragous action.
<AppocoCH> kupo, you'd be surprised
<AppocoCH> the other day we caught MI5 trying to make bots to take over the game

<Assassin> :/
<AppocoCH> luckily, we *just* managed to catch them
<Assassin> thanx to kloopy

<AppocoCH> seriously, the bot checker we know isn't totally effective, and it is even more irritating now
<AppocoCH> we'll try and adjust it and think of other similar possible solutions

<AppocoCH> and in the mean time hopefully get rid of the worst fonts
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 32): <CH_Bot> <Laney> What is the deal with the captchas? They're supposed to be hard for bots to read, not people... Half the time I get the wrong answer

They make it a terrible hassle to log in.
<AppocoCH> ^^
<AppocoCH> it's sad, but most of the pa team know the answers to the questions without even seeing the whole question
<Assassin> its true
<AppocoCH> (yes, we answer them too!)
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 33): <kupo> Will there be more totally free, real rounds like this in the future?
<AppocoCH> I'm not sure
<AppocoCH> not this year
<AppocoCH> Jolt aren't too enthuastic about running this as a completely free game, after the amount of time it's been run as a paid game
<AppocoCH> :P
[flood attack]
<AppocoCH> I was waiting for that

<AppocoCH> how boring
<AppocoCH> sorry about that people
<AppocoCH> we only have 7 minutes left
<Assassin> sigh
<AppocoCH> sorry I didn't +r earlier, my client locked up
<AppocoCH> incase anyone didn't know, that's a flood bot attack

<AppocoCH> anyway, Jolt are still planning to have all speedgames free
<AppocoCH> though if we have a proper world cup, I don't know what would happen
<AppocoCH> hopefully that'd be free
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 34): <Error> quesion what do you think is the best race
<AppocoCH> covered this

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 35): <{Reincarnate}> should you still call it creators hour without the creator being involved anymore?
<AppocoCH> well, iirc A2 etc called it question time
<AppocoCH> but then everyone called it creators hour anyway
<AppocoCH> so ...
<AppocoCH> that's how we always think of it

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 36): <[AVFC]pig> When are exceptions going to be enabled? No one likes cheaters.
<AppocoCH> ^^ fixed this
<AppocoCH> we do look for people anyway
<AppocoCH> exceptions is for people on the same IP
<AppocoCH> and Squishy has been through them all
<AppocoCH> several times
<AppocoCH> on his own
<Assassin> erherm

<AppocoCH> (he even found my brother had signed up with someone else at reading - impressive!)
<AppocoCH>

<AppocoCH> you both go through them
<Assassin> Well he got trained by me so i dont mind

<AppocoCH> hehe
<Assassin> hes excellent
<AppocoCH> we do still look and check
<AppocoCH> exceptions just mean that people that aren't sure about how many times they can interact automatically get limited
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 37): <MrLobster[Fury]> are you going to allow exile of buddy packs, as they can be used to spy on other gals, as we had three inactives and no way to boot them.
<AppocoCH> if you agree to have someone in your buddy pack...
<AppocoCH> ooh wait
<AppocoCH> being attacked

<AppocoCH> right
<AppocoCH> fixed that
<AppocoCH> my pms are on ignore
<AppocoCH> and so are CH_BOts
<AppocoCH> for the moment
<AppocoCH> anyway
<Assassin> Time anyway tbh

<AppocoCH> if you agree to have 3 people in your galaxy
<AppocoCH> who turn out to be spys
<AppocoCH> they can't go anywhere
<AppocoCH> but really, I'd hope that you'd be a bit careful when selecting your buddy pack members, enough to check that they're not going to sign up and not play
<AppocoCH>

<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 38): <Rasputin> Any chance for a speed round longer than 24hours, so that actual strategy is involved rather than just sleep deprivation?
<AppocoCH> well, the problem is that speedgame implies fast
<AppocoCH> I never bother with the scan tree until about tick 300
<AppocoCH> if we start splitting up speedgames into 12 or something hour stretches, or increase the time between ticks, it either means less people can play or it means it lasts a lot longer
<AppocoCH> I'm not sure exactly the best way of doing it
<AppocoCH> I sort of like 2 day madness

or 1 day madness
<AppocoCH> ok
<AppocoCH> thats about it
<AppocoCH> one more!
<AppocoCH> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 39): <Space_Wolf> Zik have a huge disadvantage in the beginning when protection ends, we don't have anything that can kill frigates! Is this an intended disadvantage, or will you eventually change it?
<AppocoCH> Jester actually designed the stats - yes it is a disadvantage, as 1:1 have found
<AppocoCH> but I now have Cr/Bs
<AppocoCH> so you probably lost out on the first couple of attacks
<AppocoCH> but if you go for it asap
<AppocoCH> you end up with de as no on exepcts it of you :-)
<AppocoCH> (as my attackers have found :P)
<AppocoCH> one last thing - we're hoping to have an alliancecomp sometime this round
<AppocoCH> maybe around when the round ends or something, if not sometime before too
<AppocoCH> it usually happens at the end of the round

<AppocoCH> just to let people know.
<AppocoCH> ok, well thanks for listening

Note:I had to remove some of my smileys - it gave me an error that I'd used "too many graphics in the thread". Let that me a lesson to me

Tomkat · 1 Feb 2006, 22:38

Apart from people complaining about the graphics (which is such a small gripe - GET OVER IT PEOPLE - the font has changed - get some glasses and stop whining!) and lack of exceptions, there don't seem to be many complaints.

Oh, and people complaining about rep.

I suppose if I was shit at the forums and got neg-repped all the time for it, I'd be annoyed too. If they don't like rep, then they can just ignore it.

Kal · 1 Feb 2006, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I suppose if I was shit at the forums and got neg-repped all the time for it, I'd be annoyed too. If they don't like rep, then they can just ignore it.

you can choose not to have your rep displayed as well

Razgriz · 1 Feb 2006, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I suppose if I was shit at the forums and got neg-repped all the time for it, I'd be annoyed too. If they don't like rep, then they can just ignore it.

abusive neg rep is exactly what it is: ABUSE. When people leave sly/childish/hurtfull notes that offend, it's abuse and wrong.

Refere to the neg rep thread - here is not the place
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...54#post2989154

Nadar · 1 Feb 2006, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

you can choose not to have your rep displayed as well

Really? Just took a look in my profile and I couldn't find that option.

Tomkat · 1 Feb 2006, 23:05

Oh I forgot to sign my negrep of you Razgriz. I'm the one who said that people complaining about rep gives me a headache.

The idea of rep is that you become a better poster. You learn when you're being an idiot and work on it. If you can't stand to have some people say nasty things about you on the internet then simply don't look at that area in the User CP.

I mean really? Hurtful notes? What did they say? "you suck!"? "what a crap post!"?

It's the internet. Get used to it.

Razgriz · 1 Feb 2006, 23:14

I'm not going to rise to you Tomkat - if you read the thread i've provided and look at things from a different prospective maybe you'll understand. Stop being so dam arogant.

It's not just myself that have found the rep system a problem.

Please describe for me what makes 'a better poster' because obviously i have no idea. Of course i forgot, i'm not allowed to have an oppinion of my own without being spitroast for it. Guess i'll bend over for you now...

Rc mayhem · 1 Feb 2006, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Oh I forgot to sign my negrep of you Razgriz. I'm the one who said that people complaining about rep gives me a headache.

This is exactly what is wrong with it. Stops opinions been shared through fear of ppl acting like this. Lets all think the same why dont we, wait isnt that like a fascist regeme??...

This is not the place for this though. Do it in the dedicated thread

Razgriz · 1 Feb 2006, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

This is exactly what is wrong with it. Stops opinions been shared through fear of ppl acting like this. Lets all think the same why dont we, wait isnt that like a fascist regeme??...

This is not the place for this though. Do it in the dedicated thread

My thoughts exactly - its bad enough it happens to established members of the community, i feel really sorry for newcomers

Kal · 2 Feb 2006, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

Really? Just took a look in my profile and I couldn't find that option.

sorry my mistake - it seems only an admin can decide whether a users rep is shown or not

TheBerk · 2 Feb 2006, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Oh I forgot to sign my negrep of you Razgriz. I'm the one who said that people complaining about rep gives me a headache.

The idea of rep is that you become a better poster. You learn when you're being an idiot and work on it. If you can't stand to have some people say nasty things about you on the internet then simply don't look at that area in the User CP.

I mean really? Hurtful notes? What did they say? "you suck!"? "what a crap post!"?

It's the internet. Get used to it.

How does that rep point help him become a better poster, did it give some great insight? 'Please use better grammar' 'This has been discussed already' etc, no, it is merely that you didn't like the topic he posted on, which, if i remember correctly was fairly clearly described in the thread topic did he force you to read it and get a headache?

Rikard · 2 Feb 2006, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

The idea of rep is that you become a better poster.

oh the idea is good
it just doesnt work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

You learn when you're being an idiot and work on it. If you can't stand to have some people say nasty things about you on the internet then simply don't look at that area in the User CP.

if you dont like the discussion about reputation then just ignore it.
the muchheard "if you dont like it then just ignore it" comment is not a proper argument, its a way of shifting a fundemental problem of the boards to the persons most effected by that problem. its an unfair biased system and just saying "i like it and you can ignore it" is hardly a good reason to keep it alive.

Phil^ · 2 Feb 2006, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikard

if you dont like the discussion about reputation then just ignore it.
the muchheard "if you dont like it then just ignore it" comment is not a proper argument, its a way of shifting a fundemental problem of the boards to the persons most effected by that problem. its an unfair biased system and just saying "i like it and you can ignore it" is hardly a good reason to keep it alive.

If you dont like the rep, ignore it.

Its not an unfair system since its very hard to get seriously into the red without being an absolute prat.
those who dont like the system are in the minority when you consider the whole forums community - so why should the majority have something removed because some people dont quite understand that insults on the internet shouldnt be taken seriously?

If you dont like it, ignore it. If you cant ignore it and are offended by reps, report them to the mods and let them judge if they are worthy of removal or not.
If they decide that theres nothing wrong with them - get over it.

Rikard · 2 Feb 2006, 15:12

most of the community is indifferent about the rep system from what i have noticed. from those who do i care, i have heard more voices to remove it then to keep it, besides that, its hardly relevent whether or not the system is "liked by the mayority".
the system is fundamentally flawed. to keep it alive would be a crime against the forums.

Phil^ · 2 Feb 2006, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikard

its hardly relevent whether or not the system is "liked by the mayority".
the system is fundamentally flawed. to keep it alive would be a crime against the forums.

Fortunate its not you who makes such decisions then.

Rc mayhem · 2 Feb 2006, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

Fortunate its not you who makes such decisions then.

Anyone else noticed the only people shouting to keep it as its a great system are those with lots of green?? Little odd eh?

Phil^ · 2 Feb 2006, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Anyone else noticed the only people shouting to keep it as its a great system are those with lots of green?? Little odd eh?

and very conveniant.... that those with very few or red ones are the ones who want it changed. the door swings both ways with such a cheap political point

"oh no im perfect it cant be anything im doing wrong. it must be the system, the system needs changing omgwtfhax!!!111 "

Rc mayhem · 2 Feb 2006, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

and very conveniant.... that those with very few or red ones are the ones who want it changed. the door swings both ways with such a cheap political point

"oh no im perfect it cant be anything im doing wrong. it must be the system, the system needs changing omgwtfhax!!!111 "

Just adding a new dimention to the arguement which that post obviously didn't, and really this one didnt....

Phil^ · 2 Feb 2006, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Just adding a new dimention to the arguement which that post obviously didn't, and really this one didnt....

"oh look isnt it curious that someone who has worked hard and has lots of green rep is the one who thinks that the system is ok" isnt exactly a new dimension to an argument. its little more then a cheap political point, made on an observation which completely misses the point of WHY the person is in favour of it and why those who have very few rep points are those against it.

Rc mayhem · 2 Feb 2006, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

"oh look isnt it curious that someone who has worked hard and has lots of green rep is the one who thinks that the system is ok" isnt exactly a new dimension to an argument. its little more then a cheap political point, made on an observation which completely misses the point of WHY the person is in favour of it and why those who have very few rep points are those against it.

Seems to be about on the same level as your "Just ignore it".

Phil^ · 2 Feb 2006, 16:05

yes, ignoring rep if you dont like it is really that simple to do.
it surprises me that instead of doing it, people take a 'holier then thou' approach in order to fight a foolish crusade to have a perfectly good system which strikes a decent balance - abolished

ive had some real crackers of abusive neg reps in my time, do you see me crying about how the system is unfair because i cant see who did it?
i just ignore those reps i find abusive ( or more accurately laugh at them ) and carry on with life

Tomkat · 2 Feb 2006, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Anyone else noticed the only people shouting to keep it as its a great system are those with lots of green?? Little odd eh?

Look man we can't help it if you make crappy posts that noone wants to pos-rep, and we make funny/informative/interesting/exciting posts that people like to pos-rep.

Don't be so bitter

This argument is like "well I always get picked last for the game of football, so I just think that maybe we shouldn't play football at all! ANY OF US! Even though most of you enjoy it!".

Banned · 2 Feb 2006, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Anyone else noticed the only people shouting to keep it as its a great system are those with lots of green?? Little odd eh?

Yeah, some of us learn from the criticism whereas others just whine about anonymous slander.

KweKweK · 2 Feb 2006, 19:14

The rep system in general is good, the current set up is just flawd imo. For example getting neg reps from people simply disagreeing with them on a certain topic in a well formulated post wasnt the idea when this system was designed. Personaly I dont care to much about neg reps, they actually give me a good chuckle, its just that the current set up is beeing abused. I have to agree with the F-crew people here.
Maybe just loose the whole neg rep thing and make it just green. If you're truelly a shit poster you wont get those green dots anyway. Maybe just a couple from your friends but it surely wont get you on a same level with truelly good posters

just my 2 cents

Ramihyn · 2 Feb 2006, 22:56

Im really sick of reading this whining about unfair neg reps and argueing that reputation therefore must be removed. Would be nice if it was kept to one thread which i can ignore

Somebody was mean to me on the interlol - ohnoes!
http://www.codersger.de/mollebanner.jpg

Cannon_Fodder · 2 Feb 2006, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by KweKweK

The rep system in general is good, the current set up is just flawd imo. For example getting neg reps from people simply disagreeing with them on a certain topic in a well formulated post wasnt the idea when this system was designed.

I agree with this section, however it isn't the system's fault that people neg rep for an illegitimate reason. Should we get rid of schools because some people get bullied and called names there?

When a new poster arrives and isn't used to the style of posting (GD) or for other reasons, I do leave a helpful comment rather than 'you suck/idiot/noob/twat' or blank.

And as for enforcing signed reps, I ask WHY do you want to see their name? How does it affect you, other than instantly neg repping them back? Also note, pos rep has a much greater weight than neg rep so one pos rep can cancel out many neg reps.

Or you could understand that this is an internet forum, people have different opinions, some people here are stupid/childish etc.

JonnyBGood · 3 Feb 2006, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Anyone else noticed the only people shouting to keep it as its a great system are those with lots of green?? Little odd eh?

Just to show this is very silly and reputation really doesn't mean anything concrete and is only an indicator and a tool, I've had mine reset back down to zero. This has cost me 21,596 rep points. As I'm damn sure that's the highest amount anyone has lost so far if I can take it, so can you. Serious, long-term users being driven away by a minor system and some silly comments are just being idiots about the whole thing.

Rc mayhem · 3 Feb 2006, 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Just to show this is very silly and reputation really doesn't mean anything concrete and is only an indicator and a tool, I've had mine reset back down to zero. This has cost me 21,596 rep points. As I'm damn sure that's the highest amount anyone has lost so far if I can take it, so can you. Serious, long-term users being driven away by a minor system and some silly comments are just being idiots about the whole thing.

Woo to you. Long term users are not the problem, they are obviously happy to keep posting, its the lower posting users and the new users this system affects the most as they don't post when what they have to say is valid as anyone who disagrees just neg reps them. I have recieved a neg rep for this thread just because they don't agree with me. This system restricts ideas and view points.

Squidly · 3 Feb 2006, 08:30

Suppose one way to make all parties a little more at ease, would be to introduce the option of "if you feel you've been unfairly negrepped, talk to a mod. Mod mails the neg-repper, and finds out a reason. Valid reason, rep stays. Invalid such as "I need to rep you so I can rep someone else" can be taken off manually.

Creates a fkload more work for mods though, and given the fact they have lives too, I'm not overly advocating this idea.

Banned · 3 Feb 2006, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Woo to you. Long term users are not the problem, they are obviously happy to keep posting, its the lower posting users and the new users this system affects the most as they don't post when what they have to say is valid as anyone who disagrees just neg reps them. I have recieved a neg rep for this thread just because they don't agree with me. This system restricts ideas and view points.

The PA community has never been a welcoming or friendly place. Just look at the forum crossover hell that occured when Jolt took over. Now at least posters have a way of gauging what has positive response and what has negative response. If people apply a little brainpower they'll often see that the 'you are wrong' or 'I disagree' negreps are not because of the actual position put forth, but because of the way it is put forth. I have no doubt that it's given me the opportunity to become a better poster (you may see 13 green blobs now, but there was a time when I had only red), and has helped others with the same as well.

Personally, I don't give out negative reputation anymore. I don't feel that negative reinforcement is the best way to help people post better. Instead I give positive rep whenever I feel a post warrants it. I also try to explain in a sentence or two why I'm giving the post positive rep. But I don't understand why people are so hung up on negative reputation. This is the internet, practically created to let people anonymously slander eachother. Fact is, you're doing it right now. You've basically resorted to namecalling to disprove JBG's action. Why don't you post your real name, address and phone number so you're no longer anonymous with your negativity.

JonnyBGood · 3 Feb 2006, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Woo to you. Long term users are not the problem, they are obviously happy to keep posting, its the lower posting users and the new users this system affects the most as they don't post when what they have to say is valid as anyone who disagrees just neg reps them. I have recieved a neg rep for this thread just because they don't agree with me. This system restricts ideas and view points.

I've already mentioned a system so new users do not immediately encounter rep. It's also extremely rare (yes hi, I can actually read the reps) that someone new is neg-repped for basically no reason. A vast majority of the time actual reasons are given, and to be honest it's very infrequent that really "insulting" reps are given. Mostly I've observed this to take place within that wonderful exilition versus 1up setting. I have no idea how this system restricts ideas and viewpoints. It is a codified version of online criticism. Are you saying that criticism restricts viewpoints? Are you saying we should get rid of criticism? Apologies my friend but all ideas are not as valid as each other.

I do like the way you so quickly passed over

Quote:

Anyone else noticed the only people shouting to keep it as its a great system are those with lots of green?? Little odd eh?

and my willingness to give up mine. I've been moderating for four years now. Did you really think I was that narrow-minded and selfish that the only reason I wanted to keep the system is that it benefitted me personally?

Tomkat · 3 Feb 2006, 15:23

Maybe we should just reset everyones rep?

Kal · 3 Feb 2006, 15:32

could we adjust the system so you can;t give rep unless you give a reason? i;d have thought that would be a pretty simple code change - yes people could still give stupid reasons, but at least they have to think for a couple more milli seconds.

I'd also be inclined to reduce the weight of post counts in the formulae so its more a reflection of post quality than post quantity.

Rc mayhem · 3 Feb 2006, 18:04

what about no rep system for first 50 posts, so thats no giving or recieving. Perhaps allow neutral comments to be sent so assistance and guidence can be given. This protects new users from the negatives of this system up until the point where they should be posting quality posts. Resetting is not the answer as this does not cure the problems, merely pisses off all those happy with it.

JonnyBGood · 3 Feb 2006, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

what about no rep system for first 50 posts, so thats no giving or recieving. Perhaps allow neutral comments to be sent so assistance and guidence can be given. This protects new users from the negatives of this system up until the point where they should be posting quality posts. Resetting is not the answer as this does not cure the problems, merely pisses off all those happy with it.

I asked JJ about that a week or so ago. I think he's currently trying to create a new group of users with less than 50 posts who aren't affected by rep.

Cannon_Fodder · 3 Feb 2006, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

what about no rep system for first 50 posts, so thats no giving or recieving.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Resetting is not the answer as this does not cure the problems, merely pisses off all those happy with it..

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rc mayhem

Perhaps allow neutral comments to be sent so assistance and guidence can be given. This protects new users from the negatives of this system up until the point where they should be posting quality posts.

Erm. Didn't you say the biggest problem was the comment, not the grey or (one maybe two, unless you are really shit (see max or yeh)) red blob(s) under your name?

Rc mayhem · 3 Feb 2006, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniborp

Erm. Didn't you say the biggest problem was the comment, not the grey or (one maybe two, unless you are really shit (see max or yeh)) red blob(s) under your name?

See the connecting thread about this where a lot of those in favour of the system claime it is to give advise on better posting. Therefore the comments would do this

Rikard · 7 Feb 2006, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal

could we adjust the system so you can;t give rep unless you give a reason? i;d have thought that would be a pretty simple code change - yes people could still give stupid reasons, but at least they have to think for a couple more milli seconds.

I'd also be inclined to reduce the weight of post counts in the formulae so its more a reflection of post quality than post quantity.

both would be huge leaps forward to making a system that can never work properly less flawed. I would love to see those changes made

Rikard · 7 Feb 2006, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Look man we can't help it if you make crappy posts that noone wants to pos-rep, and we make funny/informative/interesting/exciting posts that people like to pos-rep.

Don't be so bitter

This argument is like "well I always get picked last for the game of football, so I just think that maybe we shouldn't play football at all! ANY OF US! Even though most of you enjoy it!".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

and very conveniant.... that those with very few or red ones are the ones who want it changed. the door swings both ways with such a cheap political point

"oh no im perfect it cant be anything im doing wrong. it must be the system, the system needs changing omgwtfhax!!!111 "

well both of your quotes illustrate perfectly why some people with red dots would be against the system, but you seem to go past the fact that some of the mayor anti-rep people are actually well into the green dots.