People who should die a slow and painful death

Originally posted by Deffeh



Deny to me, point blank, with no attachments that if tortured extensively, you wouldnt eventually want death.

Calling someone a loser because they are suicidal is pathetic. The losers are those with such closed minds are yourself.

And who said i was reading others minds?

The funny thing is you are convinced you are right. Im not the one with the closed minded view, "suicide is for losers", so rethinks the arrogance.

flyins, you have some problems. nothing more to be said. You neither read, think, nor are able to even conceive that others might be, and indeed are right. You are ****.

i deny that emphatically. re-read the statement W posted, that about sums it up

i never called someone a loser that is suicidal (though its certainly possible they area loser). i called the person that committs suicide a loser. get it right or dont reply. dont put words in my mouth, you have no right to try to sink me to your elementary level.

i said people that committ suicide are losers. i gave logical reasons why. get this through your skull you ape, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR FRAGILE EGO AND IT'S NEED TOP BE 'RIGHT'.

your opinion of me as a person is hardly relevant, and about as important to me as peach fuzz

[Geeza]

Originally posted by Deffeh
this is something that pisses me off. (how surprising)

How is suicide selfish?

You havent thought it through

Suicide is personal, its your own. Its not anyone elses.

Every case is different, if you have no-one in this world who cares for you - then i suppose you could say it's personal - if however there are people that love you, that will grieve when you die - then I consider it selfish, I would consider myself thusly so if i were to commit suicide - because i know the pain it would cause to others, just so i could end all my troubles.

Originally posted by Deffeh
Its something people resort to (who have thought it through) when they have nothing or nobody left, and nothing is worth living for any more.

No, it's what people resort to when they THINK they have nothing left, or when their problems just get so much they give or...etc etc [enter reason here]. Take the guy the thread was about originally, sounded like he had some good friends, people who cared etc.

Originally posted by Deffeh
But if these other people cared enough, they would understand and help, and the person wouldhnt have felt so bad in the first place.

it's not so simple, it's not so easy. Who says the suicidal person would let anyone help them? or reveal their true feelings to anyone, they might let on that their a bit depressed - but I doubt they'd go around telling their loved ones they were considering killing themselves. Loved ones might try cheering a depressed person up - but they aren't psychologists, if someone is going to kill themselves they need help from people who KNOW thats what they intend. Making a sweeping statement that basically says "the friends and relatives of everyone who commits suicide were obviously too crap and didn't care enough to help" is ignorant.

Originally posted by Deffeh
if i committed suicide, id be thinking of me - and why not?

Just read that a few times, whilst in your mind thinking of the term selfish. See if you can apply the word in this case - Ignoring the rest of what you said after this, as it was rubbish (read my above argument as to why)

Originally posted by Deffeh
Also

everyone has a breaking point. this is undeniable

now we're delving into fantasy land, i might agree with you, that under extreme conditions there is a possibility that everyone might have a breaking point, (and I would not agree that most suiciders are under what i consider to be extreme conditions - in fact no-where near it) but the trials of life in general will never and i repeat for your benefit, never cause me to kill myself. Just because other people, perhaps yourself, have breaking points - don't project that onto others...you don't know how everyones mind works....in my mind suicide wouldn't just be the last choice, the final resort...it's not even an option, not a consideration.

[Deffeh]

there are some things you cant explain, or talk about till you experience them. Not one of you seems to be capable of this.

Sorry, but logic doesnt apply to suicide.


my point in the "and why not" quote is because it WOULD be about me... it would be ME taking MY OWN life, because I couldnt handle it anymore.

Selfish is when people want you to live through the pain. People want you because _they_ will miss you. Their reasons for wanting you alive (mostly) are more selfish than your reasons for wanting to die.

My point is, that you only feel suicidal (and note that i said "when you have thought it through") when you have nothing left. Even if they didnt know (which is pretty **** character judging) they should still be showing that person love. You shouldnt need an excuse to show someone you love them if you would miss them if they were gone.

I state again under extreme conditions everyone would crack, my opinion. But no one could survive literally an eternity of blinding pain, weighed up against the tranquility of death.

flyins, you seem to be getting worked up about this. What exactly makes people who commit suicide losers? What about the circumstances? What if in their death, they save the lifes of others?

Take for example the forgotten 4th plane of the 9/11 tradgedy. It is my understanding ( a rough one at that, but still), that after the al queda ****heads took over the plane, a small group of people rushed them after a while, deciding it best to crash the plane into the ground rather than to kill people on the ground at the target (camp david wasnt it?)

Now assuming my analysis of the story is correct, and if it isnt, then just play by it anyway..

These people have just commited suicide.. deliberately taken their own lifes (albeit a few minutes early, but those few minutes must have been tempting).. are they losers?

Please, think it through. You are so incredibly close minded. And dont give me another bull**** "LOL YOU CANT READ IVE SAID IT ALL" reply, as what youve said means jack ****.

[W]

Originally posted by Deffeh
there are some things you cant explain, or talk about till you experience them. Not one of you seems to be capable of this.

Let us analyze this statement. Assume we have an experience X which person A have experienced, and can thus comment on, saying statement S. Let us assume person B does not know with any certainty that person A have actually had this experience. Can he say that person A does not know what he's talking about? If not, what then about person C, who have NOT experienced X, saying statement S. As far as B is concerned, these two persons are saying the same thing. How does he separate A from C? And even if he can (by investigating X for instance) person C has already talked about it, even if he has not experienced it.

Sorry, but logic doesnt apply to suicide.

Oh. Sorry. Ignore the above paragraph then.

Someone who suicides is a loser. (no, I'm not saying this is logical at all. But logic doesn't apply to suicide, so I'm safe)

my point in the "and why not" quote is because it WOULD be about me... it would be ME taking MY OWN life, because I couldnt handle it anymore.

Any and all of your actions are taken by YOU for YOUR own reasons, be it "to do good to others" or "I want your money". Thus any action by you cannot be selfish, by your own logic. Oh. Wait.

Suicide is selfish.

Selfish is when people want you to live through the pain. People want you because _they_ will miss you. Their reasons for wanting you alive (mostly) are more selfish than your reasons for wanting to die.

So love can never be about wanting what you consider best for those you love, then? Most love is just people wanting something/one they like? But suicide is never selfish, it's always done for other people, not yourself?

I state again under extreme conditions everyone would crack, my opinion. But no one could survive literally an eternity of blinding pain, weighed up against the tranquility of death.

• I cannot believe you have not met people like flyins or me before. We're not that rare. Do you ever talk to people about these subjects?
• You have absolutely no basis for disbelieveing us. None at all. You have a better foundation for saying "I like ice cream, thus everyone likes ice cream. I can't imagine anyone not liking ice cream!"
• Death is not tranquility. It is oblivion.
• Death as I define it is the cesation of experience. ANY experience, even the most horrorfilled or painful, is still experience.
• Pain is just a signal in your brain. Events only hurt because you care about them. Experiences are only negative when compared to ones you consider better.
• If I could live for infinity with the must ultimate pain and horror, by giving up a thousand year long rich life with nothing but pleasure and happiness ended by the most mercifull death I can imagine, I'd do it. I wouldn't even blink. I've given it serious and intense thought and would not doubt.

flyins, you seem to be getting worked up about this. What exactly makes people who commit suicide losers? What about the circumstances? What if in their death, they save the lifes of others?

Take for example the forgotten 4th plane of the 9/11 tradgedy. It is my understanding ( a rough one at that, but still), that after the al queda ****heads took over the plane, a small group of people rushed them after a while, deciding it best to crash the plane into the ground rather than to kill people on the ground at the target (camp david wasnt it?)

Now assuming my analysis of the story is correct, and if it isnt, then just play by it anyway..

These people have just commited suicide.. deliberately taken their own lifes (albeit a few minutes early, but those few minutes must have been tempting).. are they losers?

Yes. They lose those few minutes. If you measure by time, then they are losers. Not by much, but still losers.

Please, think it through. You are so incredibly close minded. And dont give me another bull**** "LOL YOU CANT READ IVE SAID IT ALL" reply, as what youve said means jack ****.

For one who renounces logic, you sure seem to want us to be convinced by it. Are you sure it's not just an excuse to dismiss the logic of those that disagree with you? You also repeatedly imply that we're lacking something you have, some capability or whatever, that we're somehow inferior because of how we view life and death. This smells of an inferiority complex. When was the last time you had an appointment with a psychiatrist?

People who should die a slow and painful death: Deffeh is a prime example

[Geeza]

Originally posted by Deffeh

I state again under extreme conditions everyone would crack, my opinion. But no one could survive literally an eternity of blinding pain, weighed up against the tranquility of death.

and i state again, this is fantasy - we are talking about suicide, people being depressed etc and killing themselves - we aren't talking about some fantasy world where you are kept alive for eternity in agonizing pain. Life isn't like that, unless you allow it to be - and only certain people seem to manage this, I am not one of those people, nor will i ever be.

Originally posted by Deffeh
Take for example the forgotten 4th plane of the 9/11 tradgedy. It is my understanding ( a rough one at that, but still), that after the al queda ****heads took over the plane, a small group of people rushed them after a while, deciding it best to crash the plane into the ground rather than to kill people on the ground at the target (camp david wasnt it?)

Now assuming my analysis of the story is correct, and if it isnt, then just play by it anyway..

These people have just commited suicide.. deliberately taken their own lifes (albeit a few minutes early, but those few minutes must have been tempting).. are they losers? Take for example the forgotten 4th plane of the 9/11 tradgedy. It is my understanding ( a rough one at that, but still), that after the al queda ****heads took over the plane, a small group of people rushed them after a while, deciding it best to crash the plane into the ground rather than to kill people on the ground at the target (camp david wasnt it?)

Now assuming my analysis of the story is correct, and if it isnt, then just play by it anyway..

These people have just commited suicide.. deliberately taken their own lifes (albeit a few minutes early, but those few minutes must have been tempting).. are they losers?

this is different again to anything we've been talking about. It is not the kind of suicide we have been discussing. Im not generalising, nor am I saying 'all suiciders are depressed losers' - you're talking about things outside the normal realms of life.

[Illogical]

Originally posted by Ice-Lady


If you REALLY had suffered from severe depression then you would not be of that opinion. People who take their own lives actually need one hell of alot of balls to do so, taking your own life is not something that is easily done or without serious thought.
I don't see these poor people as cowards, just a person who can not deal with things life has thrown at them no matter how hard they try. Being married to a man who has been seriously ill with depression for the last two years, I have seen many things transpire, including his wish to self harm and the wish to take his own life. ( he has a very good job, earns good money and is under the age of 30, basically has everything he could possibly want, yet still suffers from depression ) People suffering from depression are often not in control of their own lives, getting out of bed in the morning is like climbing a huge mountain, day to day tasks are a near impossiblility, simple things most people who don't suffer from this illness take for granted are impossible.
It is a sad fact that alot of people attach a stigma toward mental health problems, this stems from their ignorance of the illness and through that ignorance they are quick to judge depression sufferers. Depression is an illness not a weakness, alot of the time this can be treated successfully with tablets, although getting the right doseage can take alot of trial and error due to the chemical inbalances within the brain. Sadly due to the stereotyping of mental health issues alot of sufferers, although aware of their problems go untreated and land up in the situation like XeroX's friend did.

XeroX, I'm sorry to hear about your friend, you have my condolences.

thankyou Ice-lady for your post, atleast some ppl arent lame :/

[Illogical]

And flyins + W please grow up, delete all your posts from this thread and go off and die somewhere or walk out of your house (YES THERE IS A THING CALLED REAL-LIFE) but sorry you cant walk out of youir house as your probably worse than this in Real life and everywhere u go you prolly get the ***** kicked out of you

fortunately, W already explained my stance on this



suicide is for fags


in my words

[JBOY]

wow
once again i'm more than amazed at the insensitivity, the arrogance and general stupidity of certain posters.

on a matter such as this, its obviously an emotional experience, for those who have commited suice, been tempted by it, or have been affected by it.

Posting insults aimed at those no longer with us because they have taken their own lives is quite frankly pathetic and ignorant.

im closing this thread.
i may remove the crap, and re-open it with the sensible debate kept.
or i may not.

[JBOY]

i'd also like to publically apologise that this thread made it this far with the content it has.

People now being removed
Flyins
Wrong!

People on final warning
eple
Yahwe