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Unread 6 May 2013, 19:06   #1
Kaiba
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PA Proposal

Ok im gonna put this out there because its something that bugs me more each round...

7 weeks is too long!!

Noticing this more since i stopped actively having roles in alliances and being more of a casual observer but it does seem now that the last 2 weeks and ESPECIALLY the last week of a round are a complete dead rubber.

Its been atleast 8 rounds now since an alliance battle for #1 went down to the wire (only ND usurping xVx and Evo vs ND come to mind), galaxy contests are normally over once Shaz's gal takes 1st place (about tick 900) and the planet win gets severly warped because with the other 2 being long dead as contests you get whole alliances launching/crashing on top planets in the last week to kill their win which really is slightly unfair.

I propose to reduce the round to 1000 ticks, i beleive that all the areas you can win PA would still be being contested at this point which would add more fun and it would stop top planets getting screwed in the final week and would provide a more worthy winner to PA.

I think that most players now seem to peak at week 5 and then realise they cant win and there is still 2 weeks left and lose intrest in the round, with a smaller playerbase than ever this has a high impact on what happens and everyone loses momentum very fast. We also all seem to start the round and nothing happens of note till tick 500 as everyone is playing the fencing game nowadays, this basically leaves us with 350 ticks of decent gameplay out of 1176 ticks.

The playerbase is older now and smaller and really its getting too much to expect 7 weeks of the that level of gameplay from people in order to win (yes some of you will say i can do well and be lazy but every alliance has a group of heroes who seems to be on 24/7 and they burn out quick)


I would like people to give their thoughts on this but plaease be practical, yes we all know PA rounds used to be longer and everyone lived and died for the game but PA now is not what it was then and maybe compacting the game would give a better pay off in a shorter period of time.
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Unread 6 May 2013, 19:13   #2
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Re: PA Proposal

If anything, 7 weeks is too short.

As for "an old player base can't play on this level for 7 weeks", maybe stop playing at that level?
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Unread 6 May 2013, 19:20   #3
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Re: PA Proposal

you know that with reducing the length, people would just screw over top planets earlier aswell, and people would give up even earlier since there was less time to catch up.

It could be fun to have a random tick length tho.
Like 1050-1250, with a unknown last tick.
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Unread 6 May 2013, 19:30   #4
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
you know that with reducing the length, people would just screw over top planets earlier aswell, and people would give up even earlier since there was less time to catch up.

It could be fun to have a random tick length tho.
Like 1050-1250, with a unknown last tick.
Yeah that could be intresting though i do slightly disagree with the first bit, people tend to turn their attention on destroying top planets after alliance #1 race is over, something that would most likely still be in the balance at tick 900-1000. I personally dont like that you can catch up now either, i think its a bit crap tbh that you can wreck your planet complete at tick 400 and still 'catch up' by round end, whereas someone who has looked after their planet can suffer because everyone lolwaves them when their alliance buddies have started giving up.

And mz this is my point, so i should be punished because I and the majority of my alliance and tbh the majority of PA can play at a high level for 5-6 weeks but because as with 99% now we burnout at the end we should be punished??? That seems wrong. Can you explain how extending the round length would genuinely improve the game please, seeing as most of the players barely make it to tick 1000 as it is...
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Unread 6 May 2013, 19:52   #5
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Re: PA Proposal

Id actualy say it would be smart to atleast double the lenght of each round.
You dont have time to get to know who your playing with over only 7 weeks.
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Unread 6 May 2013, 20:14   #6
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Id actualy say it would be smart to atleast double the lenght of each round.
You dont have time to get to know who your playing with over only 7 weeks.
While I agree with the sentiment behind this post, I think it is unrealistic. It's hard enough to keep it competitive for 7 weeks, as it is App/TGV had the round won 2 weeks ago, the last two weeks has been about which will get first, nothing more. 7 week is still about right in my mind, sometimes it is close all the way to the end.
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Unread 6 May 2013, 22:18   #7
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
While I agree with the sentiment behind this post, I think it is unrealistic. It's hard enough to keep it competitive for 7 weeks, as it is App/TGV had the round won 2 weeks ago, the last two weeks has been about which will get first, nothing more. 7 week is still about right in my mind, sometimes it is close all the way to the end.
You rarely see these kind of blocks now days, i think this is the first round in ages where two alliance have kept together even though they knew they were stagnating the round, and im pretty sure it wont happend again for a very long time.
In the end if this round had been twice as long, the others wouldve had time to catch up With TGV/App imho
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Unread 7 May 2013, 03:06   #8
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Re: PA Proposal

Ultores would not have won as many rounds if the rounds were shorter
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Unread 7 May 2013, 06:26   #9
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Re: PA Proposal

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Ultores would not have won as many rounds if the rounds were shorter
If they were longer neither
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Unread 7 May 2013, 08:13   #10
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
You rarely see these kind of blocks now days, i think this is the first round in ages where two alliance have kept together even though they knew they were stagnating the round, and im pretty sure it wont happend again for a very long time.
In the end if this round had been twice as long, the others wouldve had time to catch up With TGV/App imho
So basically, App/TGV should for the sake of the game have split up I assume?

And, how would you reckon that would pan out?

That statement to me sounds like - "...hey we should split up mkaaayyy... surely the other side will see this as a anti stagnation move and will not massivly target one of us first and the other later mkaaayyy...."

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Unread 7 May 2013, 08:24   #11
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Re: PA Proposal

[edit] Wait. This is not AD. Go away Motti!
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Unread 7 May 2013, 09:03   #12
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
[edit] Wait. This is not AD. Go away Motti!
Im not a seasoned forum player - so mybad.

But in my defence, BB did infact throw the statement out here in PA suggestions ;-)
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Unread 7 May 2013, 09:30   #13
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Re: PA Proposal

He's not wrong. The fact that Apprime and TGV were allied made the round boring. That's not the same as saying you should've split up for the good of the game, though. I disagree with that last statement because I don't feel you're obligated to make the game fun for the rest of us. In any case, that's not what Butcher said, and it's irrelevant to the topic at hand anyway.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 10:07   #14
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
He's not wrong. The fact that Apprime and TGV were allied made the round boring. That's not the same as saying you should've split up for the good of the game, though. I disagree with that last statement because I don't feel you're obligated to make the game fun for the rest of us. In any case, that's not what Butcher said, and it's irrelevant to the topic at hand anyway.
but his statement that it won't happend again next round or for a very long time, looks completly based on air to me. Rather naive to not expect them to do it again.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 10:12   #15
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
He's not wrong. The fact that Apprime and TGV were allied made the round boring. That's not the same as saying you should've split up for the good of the game, though. I disagree with that last statement because I don't feel you're obligated to make the game fun for the rest of us. In any case, that's not what Butcher said, and it's irrelevant to the topic at hand anyway.
And the fact FAnG, ND and Ultores were allied the round before did exactly the same. The only difference being a higher score difference between the blocks this round.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 11:15   #16
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Re: PA Proposal

is there even any moderators on this forum or do I just have to throw out some racism to wake em up?
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Unread 7 May 2013, 11:40   #17
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
but his statement that it won't happend again next round or for a very long time, looks completly based on air to me. Rather naive to not expect them to do it again.
PA gets stale at times, I'll grant you that, but we don't see graphs like this very often. Hardcore overblocking where one block is completely out of the running is pretty rare. Certainly more rare than people think.

Round 50, for example, had a block of the #1 and #5 alliances, with the #4 joining late, against a block of the #2, #7 and #10 alliances, with the #6 alliance joining late. All in all I'd consider that a pretty good round, and I was in the losing block that round.

So, no, I don't think having a streak of exactly 1 overblocking round is sufficient cause to shorten the length of rounds, even if it helped, which I don't believe it would.

(Plaguuu, PA Team moderate this forum. If you feel there's a problem, report the posts in question.)
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 12:01   #18
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Re: PA Proposal

Its kind of hard finding arguments why the rounds should be longer/shorter without taking how long the round is competetive alliance wise.
I think the rounds is way too short for People to even bother getting known with the players in their gals, and its easier to chose to commit/not commit to the upcomming round when the tick lenght is so short.
Imho doubling the lenght would be the best choice for a game like PA atm.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 12:27   #19
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Re: PA Proposal

Attempting to stay on topic...

The length of round I feel is maybe +/-1 week ok atm.

Any stagnation coming last week of round I would assume we would see regardless of round lenght. If the round were 8 weeks, the last week would be stale, if it were 6 weeks the last week would be stale.

By changing 1-2 weeks longer/shorter I think we are not making any significant difference, end of round idling will still occur.

If any, I would oppose to prolonging the round much more. If for example the rounds doubled to 14 weeks, and you have a shit round due to crash/politics/blocking/etc.... you simply have many more weeks to dislike the round.

Everytime a new round starts, you get clean sheets and politics, althou sometimes marginally gets changed around. You get a new chance with galaxy (and randoms) you get a new chance to make friends (politically speaking but also just as important make new friends with randoms in your galaxy).

So, basically current round lenght seems decent to me. Any prolonged round will just make your round extra shit (if it is a bad round for you/your alliance). If any, reduce it by a week - or have a window of tick stop like mentioned earlier in the post where mayebe ticker stops randomly sometime in the 7th week with a small window of warning (maybe 12ticks ahead of stop?)
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Unread 7 May 2013, 12:36   #20
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Its kind of hard finding arguments why the rounds should be longer/shorter without taking how long the round is competetive alliance wise.
I think the rounds is way too short for People to even bother getting known with the players in their gals, and its easier to chose to commit/not commit to the upcomming round when the tick lenght is so short.
Imho doubling the lenght would be the best choice for a game like PA atm.
I'm not so sure about that either. Kaiba does have a point that PA takes a certain endurance. Differences in skill (as opposed to numbers) only tend to show up late in the round, for example. As an extreme example, you can get 60 newbies in a tag, tell them all to init 500 roids and you'll be #1 until at least tick 35. Requires exactly 1 log in.

I figure making the round a little longer wouldn't hurt (say 8 or 9 weeks), but 14 would become a snoozefest because the current (small) player base makes political mobility very hard. Having 1 ally can already be an overblock, as this round shows.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 12:45   #21
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Re: PA Proposal

In my opinion, prolonging the round making endurance a more important factor is really not the way to go.

I believe there is a general consensus that more and more players are not willing to put in all this effort over such a long period of time, pr now almost two months at a time.

Making rounds shorter, perhaps even without changing the tech three around would make it somewhat more active. When you have to make an actual choice between mining all your roids or getting siege?

Choose wheter to go for refineries as income rather then stealing (and mining) a lot of roids.

Currently, atleast for top planets they have all significant research etc done and are for the final week just growing and growing. Same goes for galaxies.

The battle is over, now it is just about not screwing up and waiting for tick end.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 12:57   #22
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I'm not so sure about that either. Kaiba does have a point that PA takes a certain endurance. Differences in skill (as opposed to numbers) only tend to show up late in the round, for example. As an extreme example, you can get 60 newbies in a tag, tell them all to init 500 roids and you'll be #1 until at least tick 35. Requires exactly 1 log in.

I figure making the round a little longer wouldn't hurt (say 8 or 9 weeks), but 14 would become a snoozefest because the current (small) player base makes political mobility very hard. Having 1 ally can already be an overblock, as this round shows.
I understand what you are aiming at, but i think your focusing on the wrong part of the game when arguing why double the lenght would not be worth a shot.
PA was first and foremost played within the galaxy, and here lays the problem with longer rounds.
The PA crew need to rework the galaxy setup if they are to attract new players in this game.
And they need longer rounds.
Alliance politics rarely change wich gals ends in the top3 of late.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 13:02   #23
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Re: PA Proposal

changing the length of a round by a week + or - wouldn't make that big a difference , players would have to adapt to shorter/longer rounds , xp play would be viable in shorter rounds while value wins in longer rounds so certainly would not have a problem with alternating round lengths between 6/7/8 weeks as it opens up more strategies for players and allys
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Unread 7 May 2013, 13:35   #24
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
changing the length of a round by a week + or - wouldn't make that big a difference , players would have to adapt to shorter/longer rounds , xp play would be viable in shorter rounds while value wins in longer rounds so certainly would not have a problem with alternating round lengths between 6/7/8 weeks as it opens up more strategies for players and allys
New players dont realy know whats the difference in viable strategies from 6 week long round to a 8 week long round.
In the end one allie will win anyway.
We need longer rounds to keep the stability in this game
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Unread 7 May 2013, 14:21   #25
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Re: PA Proposal

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so basically, app/tgv should for the sake of the game have split up i assume?

And, how would you reckon that would pan out?

That statement to me sounds like - "...hey we should split up mkaaayyy... Surely the other side will see this as a anti stagnation move and will not massivly target one of us first and the other later mkaaayyy...."

rofl.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 17:30   #26
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Re: PA Proposal

I would welcome shorter rounds. But in some cases a longer round would be more beneficial if the race is close and the war is still on going.

It would be nice if PA rules/procedure could be changed to state that the round length would be between 5-8 weeks with the admins/PA Team deciding in the 4th week if the round will end in the 5th/6th week or go to weeks 7/8. A round that goes only 5/6 week is quite different than a round that goes 7/8 weeks. With more time value is more important than XP and also with more time alliances/people can wait to make their move. Also with a shorter time people can take a round off easier or not have to worry about their planets as much.

Unfortunately there is not much trust by the PA community in the admins/PA team so the chances of giving them the ability to dictate round length is unlikely. Plus the wording of the agreement would have to be changed so that it makes it clear to the PA community on how the round length is determined.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 22:57   #27
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Re: PA Proposal

I was trying to stay out of this debate (this time around) as we've discussed it many times before (although not for a few years now).

I'll just remind us of one point from the previous debates which hasn't yet resurfaced here:

Shorter rounds discourage "risk taking" because any significant mistake cannot be rectified in the (short) time remaining. Alliances therefore become far more cautious and the game becomes (even more) boring. I seem to remember that I argued for 5 rounds of 8 weeks each per year with two weeks between rounds and a break over Christmas and New Year. We still only get 5 rounds (of 7 weeks) with "some sh*t" over the festive season - so I really don't see why we didn't go with 8 week rounds.
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Unread 7 May 2013, 23:03   #28
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Re: PA Proposal

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
I was trying to stay out of this debate (this time around) as we've discussed it many times before (although not for a few years now).

I'll just remind us of one point from the previous debates which hasn't yet resurfaced here:

Shorter rounds discourage "risk taking" because any significant mistake cannot be rectified in the (short) time remaining. Alliances therefore become far more cautious and the game becomes (even more) boring. I seem to remember that I argued for 5 rounds of 8 weeks each per year with two weeks between rounds and a break over Christmas and New Year. We still only get 5 rounds (of 7 weeks) with "some sh*t" over the festive season - so I really don't see why we didn't go with 8 week rounds.
Indeed, thats another good argument for longer rounds.
Risktaking.
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