New salvage system

[Henrik]

I think we need a new salvage system, this round has proven how faulty the current system is anyhow.

With ND crashing every day for roids, you sometimes loses alot of value defending roids and sometimes you dont.

If your a top 50 planet you gain close to 0 value defending, it's easier to illustrate with some examples.

You defend lose 700k value killing 1m value, total salvage = 200k + 210k = 410k, your loss are therefor 700k-410k = 290k

The next day you defend killing 1m value and losing 0 value = salvage because your a top50 planet gives you 1m res each = 30k value gain.

(This happend Friday + Sunday if ppl have doubts they can check the news scan on 6.3.8)

This leads to my suggestion - if we could implement a "carry over" salvage system it would make people more willing to defend as top planets.

It should work this way, all the lost fleet value from defending, you should be able to regain from defending (not more than the current % ofc, but not capped on the single combat)

So if you have an overall loss of 1m value from defending, and you defend killing 1m value instead of being capped at 30k value gain, cuz your a topplanet you should ofc be able to gain all 20% = 200k as you have an overall minus on 1million, after this it would be reduced to 800k etc.

Dunno if its even possible to implement, but it could avoid people farming and in the same way not punish people for defending.

[Kaiba]

Seems reasonable

I dont see why a plan mooted a while ago about having the old system for most the round and then swapping over to the current system in the last week (at the same time vac mode is disabled) to stop that last rush of people crashing on contender planets to influence rankings at the end whilst still allowing the top planets to be able to salvage gain normally for most the round wasnt looked into more.

Something does need to be done tho otherwise as you say top planets will only defend incs they dont lose value on and make alliances weaker

[Hunterrrr]

Dont def.

[Tiamat101]

Simple Don't excpect to gain salvage when you play for value. I agree we need a new salvage system but i don't think this is the problem. The problem lies with MH and there inability to control donations. If there was a way to limit the donations then salvage could be returned to its normal 30/20 with a % drop off for having higher value.

But since this is not the case, we are stuck with the fact that top 50 planets essentially CAN NOT DEFEND because it makes the calcs VERY hard to cover. So by penalizing ONLY the top 50 it gives top planets no incentive to want to defend.

[Monroe]

Just to play devil's advocate here... why should the top 50 be rewarded for defending? If you want to be a top planet, and play in an ally why should it not be harder for them than for the average Joe? If you want to be an elite player why shouldn't things be tougher?

While I think the gripes listed here are legitimate I also think that having a graduated scale where it is hard to stay on top is a good thing for the game.

[neroon]

why should u be awarded for being a shit player tho? i could agree that game must be made more understandable for new ppl, even though there are no new ppl joining this game, but that dosent mean being shit must be awarded.

if ure top planet, ure already losing out on quite some things, like life and similar shit.. why should u be taken down by 1 more step, which is the inability to actually defend. At this point you cant defend, yes its a tad better than last round, but still thats not a solution..

the number of ppl that usually like to cheat can do it nowdays as well, just keep their values low with not spending resources and still get those shipdonations, while being small and not as nicely noticed.. meanwhile ppl that dont think of such shit still are hold back due to the rules that were introduced..

henrik`s idea is something to check out imo as well.. or just bring back the old system and just close the fckers gettin donations

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Monroe

Just to play devil's advocate here... why should the top 50 be rewarded for defending? If you want to be a top planet, and play in an ally why should it not be harder for them than for the average Joe? If you want to be an elite player why shouldn't things be tougher?

While I think the gripes listed here are legitimate I also think that having a graduated scale where it is hard to stay on top is a good thing for the game.

I don't think it is about rewarding top 50 players, that's just a side effect. It's about rewarding behaviour that's good for the game. Nowadays, when a top planet defends, there are two possible outcomes:
1) If it's only just covered, they run a real risk of losing a lot of value, because they don't get salvage.
2) If it's way overcovered, they waste time sending their ships somewhere they don't need to be, because even if the attacker crashes, they still won't get any salvage.

It's simply a lose/lose for them. I'm all for the game being harder for top players, but all the current salvage rule does is make top 50 players less willing to defend. That hurts the lower ranked players more than it hurts the top 50. I'd rather see blatant salvage farming in the top 10 than less defense in the top 300. Neither of those would be even better, but I'll take what I can get.

[Light]

Isn't the reward for defending the fact that you or your alliance keeps the asteroids it would of otherwise lost?

The reward for a top50 or top10 player defending there alliance is that there alliance will return the favor in the last week if they need it. In fact, in the last week, alliances tend to dedicate themselves just to help there top players achieve the highest rank possible (preferably #1).

A lot of the time, defenders arnt rewarded with salvage as most people avoid crashing. I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it is. All round, Ive only got a decent amount of salvage once.

[Mzyxptlk]

Keeping roids is a good thing, but not at all costs. The change in salvage has shifted the balance of roids vs. value.

In any case, top players are not stupid. They can be selfish and it won't hurt them. The community does not self-police, so they'll always have a home. See also: cheating and crashing.

[tokath]

Salvage definitely needs to be changed as it's not just the top 50/100 planets that are being punished.

I'm currently top 200ish and one of the larger planets in my alliance. The salvage "leeching" that occurs, especially, when defending smaller planets (even if their ships don't help) is part of that frustration. There have been several times where if the target planet doesn't hide their fleet I won't make back enough salvage to cover my losses. In these cases if I was defending my own planet I would have at least covered my losses with the all the damage done to the attackers fleet.

[Henrik]

Originally Posted by Light

Isn't the reward for defending the fact that you or your alliance keeps the asteroids it would of otherwise lost?

The reward for a top50 or top10 player defending there alliance is that there alliance will return the favor in the last week if they need it. In fact, in the last week, alliances tend to dedicate themselves just to help there top players achieve the highest rank possible (preferably #1).

A lot of the time, defenders arnt rewarded with salvage as most people avoid crashing. I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it is. All round, Ive only got a decent amount of salvage once.

The problem with the salvage rule is top planets CANT defend, not even themself, if you attack them last week they are bound to lose value no matter what (if not cath attacking lol) which is not the point of the new salvage system.

And for top players to defend just to lose value? (have you seen who's actual playing????) wont ever happen - for this reason we have alot of non selfish players which pay the price of not getting def, and deffing.

The point is to keep salvage but illiminate the top players possibilites to farm which is done with this proposal.

If your idea was the case we could just as well remove salvage all together.

[neroon]

atm:

theres an incoming

someone with good value launches def

its covered somewhat like att loses 250k value, def loses 150k value

both have 1 fleet

attacker can most prolly land no matter what, since he knows
already that good value planet, that is defending, wont land the def for such a valueloss :P

[Pommeh]

The system is perfect tbh, I don't want to defend anyone anyway <3

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by neroon

attacker can most prolly land no matter what, since he knows
already that good value planet, that is defending, wont land the def for such a valueloss :P

What you describe is called bluffing, and both parties can do it with equal confidence. That is, none at all.

[Henrik]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

What you describe is called bluffing, and both parties can do it with equal confidence. That is, none at all.

Check these two bcalcs:
#1 defender + little defender : http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=vrir0ugem7l2mfy
2 x t200 defender : http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=326eybvo7uia7ga

No way the zik in first calc will land the def, had the defender been smaller it had been an easy land.

Which is the problem, but i reckon you can't see that

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Henrik

Check these two bcalcs:
#1 defender + little defender : http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=vrir0ugem7l2mfy
2 x t200 defender : http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=326eybvo7uia7ga

No way the zik in first calc will land the def, had the defender been smaller it had been an easy land.

But it hurts the attacker even more. If you were in a decent alliance and crashed 1.1m to kill 700k, you'd be spat out like a pensioner's steamy turd. Hence, bluffing.

Originally Posted by Henrik

Which is the problem, but i reckon you can't see that

Cheap.

[Kaiba]

What i think Henrik is getting at is couldnt a smaller 'support' alliance - such as ODDR was to Apprime have these smaller planets who round is over attack these big guys knowing that the chances are that the defence wont land - or the base fleet wont be home - because no way would a top 20 player take a 700k value hit to protect a few rocks with less than 400 ticks to go... it could be a decent tactic to take out top planets in future rounds...

[Henrik]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

But it hurts the attacker even more. If you were in a decent alliance and crashed 1.1m to kill 700k, you'd be spat out like a pensioner's steamy turd. Hence, bluffing.


Cheap.

I wish u were right, but i don't see a ND tag of 10.

ND has crashed +10m value killing less than 3m on my gal alone this round.

Most of the roids we have lost is due to crashing, and often LARGE crashes.

[Shev]

If there's green (anywhere) on the calc, it's a good laNDing.

Follow that simple rule and you will fit right into ND.