Changes to Planet Scans

[Monroe]

I'd like to posit that the changes that have been made to planet scans for this round are unnecessary and should be removed. The reason the information about factories and resources in production was added to the planet scan was so that players could see the resources that other players were hiding in production (especially ziks) and so have a better idea of what they might be landing against. However with the production change basically making it impossible to hide resources for long periods of time I don't feel that this feature is necessary, and removing it would add a bit of mystery back into landing attacks. Sure folks could still hide ships in production for a short period of time, but that would only work for one attack at most.

What I would suggest instead is take this scan function and make it a covert op (replace one of the current cheap ones). This would make it a potentially useful covert op, a way of gather intel about an opponent that would be useful.

[Mzyxptlk]

I agree with the first paragraph. I see absolutely no reason to implement the second. The information can easily be retrieved from sandmans, or even from a planet scan done 15 ticks ago. Further, cov ops are meant to damage a planet, not to gain intel on it.

[Zaejii]

maybe keep the amount in production, but lose the factory information?

[GReaper]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

I see absolutely no reason to implement the second. The information can easily be retrieved from sandmans, or even from a planet scan done 15 ticks ago.

This game should not depend on a third party site!

Also a planet scan between 2 ticks won't give that much information, resources may end up missing but there won't be any way of telling if the planet is hiding resources short term or long term. The only way of figuring out this is by either resorting to another site or by tracking the planet with scans over a much longer period.

Landing should be about calculating risk, not just pot luck. Yes there should be an element of uncertainty which a defender can use to his advantage, but not destroy a fleet with huge amounts of hidden ships in production. Attackers should be able to judge that a planet is hoarding too much and team up to ensure a victory.

Maybe adjust the information displayed a bit, but certainly do not remove it.

[Monroe]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Further, cov ops are meant to damage a planet, not to gain intel on it.

Well I've felt for a long time that covert ops should also provide intel, after all in the real world one of the key sources of intel is in fact espionage, so it is perfectly logical to me that some covert ops should include intel. Also sometimes the information that has been added to planet scans is very useful, and as GReaper points out the game shouldn't depend on 3rd party sights for useful in game intel.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by GReaper

This game should not depend on a third party site!

But it does.

Originally Posted by GReaper

Also a planet scan between 2 ticks won't give that much information, resources may end up missing but there won't be any way of telling if the planet is hiding resources short term or long term. The only way of figuring out this is by either resorting to another site or by tracking the planet with scans over a much longer period.

Landing should be about calculating risk, not just pot luck. Yes there should be an element of uncertainty which a defender can use to his advantage, but not destroy a fleet with huge amounts of hidden ships in production. Attackers should be able to judge that a planet is hoarding too much and team up to ensure a victory.

Maybe adjust the information displayed a bit, but certainly do not remove it.

There is one extremely simple, extremely easy solution. Make res in prod count towards value as much as normal ships do. Problem ****ing solved. Why PA Team (and the community in general) always insist on doing things the hard way is beyond me.

Originally Posted by Monroe

Well I've felt for a long time that covert ops should also provide intel, after all in the real world one of the key sources of intel is in fact espionage, so it is perfectly logical to me that some covert ops should include intel. Also sometimes the information that has been added to planet scans is very useful, and as GReaper points out the game shouldn't depend on 3rd party sights for useful in game intel.

Scans = information
Cov ops = damage

It's simple. Keep it that way.

[GReaper]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

There is one extremely simple, extremely easy solution. Make res in prod count towards value as much as normal ships do. Problem ****ing solved. Why PA Team (and the community in general) always insist on doing things the hard way is beyond me.

That would be my preferred solution as well, instead of allowing people to manipulate their value by putting days worth of production in there and potentially getting more XP for attacking.

I think the value of how much is in production should be kept in the scan though, just to make things slightly easier instead of yet more calculations. If this idea was implemented you could easily figure it out by calculating (planet value - fleet value - constructions value - resources value, etc.), but to be honest this game should be accessible to as many people as possible.

Just remove the factory usage to start off with.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by GReaper

I think the value of how much is in production should be kept in the scan though, just to make things slightly easier instead of yet more calculations.

I guess that makes sense.