Who else is sick of theses greedy barstewards?

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

16% fs

[Ste]

me.
There are 40 applicants for every one place in the fire service.
It's not like we can't sack them all and get new ones.
some firemen that i have spoken to actually feel bullied by there union into striking.

Andy Gilchrist is a stubborn twat.

"But we cant afford mortgages"

THEN RENT YOU GREEDY *******S, LIKE MOST OF THE REST OF US THAT ARE UNDERPAID!!

[Apothos]

I wonder what odds are available for the next public-sector strikee's...

[Deffeh]

They are playing on the public spport for firemen after Sept 11th.

Also,

They are playing on the danger element of the job
forgetting the hours they get paid to sit about.

If they die in a fire, will it make any difference whether they die on 21k or 25k or 30k.

I would support them if they asked the government for good Life insurance policies, and a small raise. That would make sense




Sorry british firemen, but look at the french.

They arent allowed to strike
They are payed like 7k less than you a year already
They are more skilled
They train and work in their free time

Originally posted by Apothos
I wonder what odds are available for the next public-sector strikee's...

the police were looking into legal action to overturn their ban on striking earlier this year

[Kill]

I work for Fire Service (non-Uniform) in IT.

The average fireman earns 21k a year (thats not a starting wage might I add and they spend a long time in training on even worse pay), a grand total of 25% of there pay then is deducted for pensions.

So earning 21k a year but taking home 16k while supporting a family is hardly great wage, especially as most Fireman tend to stay in the fireservice for many years.

Personally the strike is inconvienant to me as I work in my Counties Fire HQ in the IT Department, the picketting means I can not go into work and thus have to work from home.

I do however support the strike action based upon the really ****ty actions of the goverment and other factors the press tends to ignore.

Killmark

As one of their many employers i refuse to give them 40%. I cant afford it.

[Nodrog]

Perhaps if they scrapped welfare and cut back on the NHS, they could actually afford to actually pay the actual people actually doing important jobs what they actually deserve.

Originally posted by Nodrog
Perhaps if they scrapped welfare and cut back on the NHS, they could actually afford to actually pay the actual people actually doing important jobs what they actually deserve.

indeed, too much of my money is given away to lazy people!

[Edit] oh, and peoplewho are "ill"

[Kill]

why not scrap education, health service, welfare.

Originally posted by Kill
why not scrap education, health service, welfare.

we need education

[Kill]

Originally posted by Cocaine


we need education

No.

The vast majority of people are sheep and are too stupid to think for themselves, you are on the whole coddled and protected from the harsh light of reality.

you just need to breed and let us run things for you.

The reaction of people on this thread just shows how you are influenced by goverment propoganda.

I am anti-union, anti-strike etc but the difference is instead of taking things at face value I looked a little deeper and found things were not at simple as the media would have you believe.


Killmark

[KoRnNut]

Holy ****, judging my killmark's replies to this thread, I can really picture having a beer with him quite enjoyeable! We'd have great fun tearing away at the human cattle that will never ever put down their cell phones, stop staring at their damm stock values on a PC, and will never understand how their own god damned legislative system works.

Killmark might be on the same plane of reality as me, this is freaky. And all those bad assumptions I've made about you in the past...

[sh@dow]

well you may think your not a sheep but you are and theres nothing you can do about it

[Mong]

I'd rather give them 40% than have a beer with Killmark.

M.

[Kill]

Originally posted by sh@dow
well you may think your not a sheep but you are and theres nothing you can do about it

And that is why you are not a sheperd.


Killmark

What I really dislike about the whole thing is the rank hypocrisy.
Tony Blair just gave himself a fat 40% payrise.
And now he's denying it to the firemen who frankly have far more right to public sector money than he does.

That man really is a prick.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Lord Boredom
What I really dislike about the whole thing is the rank hypocrisy.
Tony Blair just gave himself a fat 40% payrise.

Much as it pains me to stand up for him he hasn't given himself a 40% pay rise at all. Until recently he simply didn't claim 40% of the wage he was already entitled to on the nice socialist basis that he doesn't need it cos his wife earns so damn much. With the baby etc that's changed somewhat so he's drawing his whole wage instead of only 60% of it.

Kudos to him for actually taking the lower wage in the first place.

Damn it hurt saying that

[LHC]

I don't agree with the strike, nor do I agree with a obscene wage increase. They accepted the job, and new what the wages were, so they really can go **** arses for all I care, and they won't get any support from me.

But, we could afford to pay them. If we cut back on foreign aid (i.e none), and banned any secondary school children who prove that they don't deserve an education from getting one, and kick them on the street with no support, we could easily afford to pay the firefighters.

But they don't deserve it.

[sh@dow]

clearly you have no idea what your on about. They do deserve a pay rise but they've been offered more than necessary and continue asking for the unreasonable rise that is 40%. If they were even 1/2 decent they'd have accepted 11% and got an end to it as quickly as possible but they didnt, therefore its us that suffer. What I do agree with is that they did know how much their job paid before doing it and so shouldnt have any excuse for asking for so much.

It also annoys me how much public support they get, silly fools

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Damn it hurt saying that

Ouch.

There goes no.267 of my 600 reasons why Tony Blair is a prick.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by sh@dow
clearly you have no idea what your on about. They do deserve a pay rise but they've been offered more than necessary and continue asking for the unreasonable rise that is 40%. If they were even 1/2 decent they'd have accepted 11% and got an end to it as quickly as possible but they didnt, therefore its us that suffer. What I do agree with is that they did know how much their job paid before doing it and so shouldnt have any excuse for asking for so much.

Whine at your government, not at them.

Dont hate the player, hate the game!

when they next picket go and shout at them and protest on the other side of roaqd

When you decide to become a fireman you do it because you want to help the country and save lives. You dont get many conversations like this at fireman interviews.

Interveyer- "why dya wanna be a fireman"
canditae- "I want to be a millionaire by the time im 25"

they knew what the score was when they joined up, and would think the occasinal raise in line with or slightly above inflation was fine for the service they do for the community. Give them a raise and everyone will want one (the nurses on strike would not be good) and that will be bad for the economy. they are risking peoples lifes and being very selfish. 21K is not bad especially in the north, my family dont make 21k a year and we are fine. If they get the raise they will get 30k odd a year, a lot better than many people who have being studiing for years. 40 people per job suggests there rise is below the equilibrium and should be dropped. I suggest the goverment docks there pay by 10% if they dont grow up soon. This is the kind of thing you would expect in the mid 80s. For the first time in my life i would support bringing maggie back to sort em out (thats hard to say considering im leftish)

[Ste]

and why are they complaining about getting paramedic training?
In my opinion that is a necessity. The more people with paramedic training the better.

[roadrunner_0]

i have one friend who works for the fire service, he doesnt want to strike, in fact, he is busy being thankful that his child is only 1 so he wont miss the fact that he wont get much for christmas as with these strikes (which my friend doesnt want to take part in but has to) he can barely afford to pay the mortgage and basically live this month

I agree that Firemen do very dangerous jobs and deserve a pay rise, but not 405 and THEY SHOULDNT FKING STRIKE FFS!!!!

What I really hate though are te train strikes by First North Western. The Trains are always late, the carragies are crowded and full of crap, and the inspectors are about as courteous as a horny rottweiler.

THEY DONT DESERVE A PAY RISE GODDAMMIT!!!

[Rids]

That 16% offer was based on several 'modernisations'

Along the lines of

Reworked scheduled (longer hours, less firefighters)
Less night crews (great, lets hope we dont start burning to death in our beds then)
Paramedic training (a good idea, but its not exactly their job is it?)

I seldom post here but I thought this thread could do with some real info which many of you seem to be lacking.

First of all an opinion. How many jobs do the firmen do?

Well put out fires, they are payed and covered for that. Obviously.

Cut people out of crushed cars using "Jaws of life" that no one else can. Didnt get extra pay for that.

Carry difibulators, administer above basic first aid. Yes they do that but didnt get extra pay for that. - I know what you are all saying to yourself now. "But they dont carry defibulators and do this stuff!" True not all of them do, I can name at least one that does and others do as well. Bet you didnt hear that on the news?

Gain extra skills, such as using climbing eqipment, to extract people out of difficult places and take them off high places such as tower cranes. Which they arnt getting extra pay for. All west yorkshire have learnt the basics of such ropework (at the leeds climbing wall if you are interested.)

While these are not nationwidethey are happening, without extra pay.

Finally, How much is your life worth to you. You may blame them if more people die or are injured. Arnt those lives worth a bit more pay. 40% may be a lot to ask. True. But There is no need for insulting offers.

Listen, learn + think.

[roadrunner_0]

16% is a generous offer :/

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Japoteg
I seldom post here but I thought this thread could do with some real info which many of you seem to be lacking.

First of all an opinion. How many jobs do the firmen do?

Well put out fires, they are payed and covered for that. Obviously.

Cut people out of crushed cars using "Jaws of life" that no one else can. Didnt get extra pay for that.

Carry difibulators, administer above basic first aid. Yes they do that but didnt get extra pay for that. - I know what you are all saying to yourself now. "But they dont carry defibulators and do this stuff!" True not all of them do, I can name at least one that does and others do as well. Bet you didnt hear that on the news?

Gain extra skills, such as using climbing eqipment, to extract people out of difficult places and take them off high places such as tower cranes. Which they arnt getting extra pay for. All west yorkshire have learnt the basics of such ropework (at the leeds climbing wall if you are interested.)

While these are not nationwidethey are happening, without extra pay.

Finally, How much is your life worth to you. You may blame them if more people die or are injured. Arnt those lives worth a bit more pay. 40% may be a lot to ask. True. But There is no need for insulting offers.

Listen, learn + think.

Then what, in your opinion, constitutes an insulting offer, and what constitutes an acceptable one?

And how can a service dedicated to the saving of life as you have pointed out even consider leaving the country in the hands of those green godesses for 8 days?

[Woof]

If they get 40%, then taxes will probably rise to pay for it.
Which means i will take home less, which means they can shove the pay rise up their arses.

[insane_in_da_membrane]

Originally posted by Japoteg
40% may be a lot to ask

until the Nurses and police decide THEY also want a 40% payrise.

I believe the fire brigade deserve a payrise, but 40% is a lot to ask.

Originally posted by insane_in_da_membrane

until the Nurses and police notice THEY also deserve a 40% payrise.

I've corrected your spelling for you.

Originally posted by YahweII


I've corrected your spelling for you.

Always the humanitarian.

[Snurx]

I agree whit the strike, but not the 40% claim.
They should be more then happy whit 16%, and the next year they can try again.
If they strike, they should be held accountabale for all the fires they dont take out and the people that die off them.
I thougth most people became firefigthers beacause they wanted to do work that mattered.



BTW:Wow, there are some bitter people in here...

"most humans are sheep."

What the ****? Thats the most arrogant, ignorant and stupid comment i have ever heard.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Snurx

If they strike, they should be held accountabale for all the fires they dont take out and the people that die off them.

Can we hold you responsible as well? You arent helping people out of burning buildings either.

Originally posted by Snurx

I thougth most people became firefigthers beacause they wanted to do work that mattered.

The fact that they want to help others gives you the right to force them to work underpaid, because its their "duty" to be a firefighter and help you, no matter what the money involved is?

during the last strike I heard beep after beep as I walked past the firestation on my way to work. There were none this morning.

[Ulysses]

Originally posted by Woof
If they get 40%, then taxes will probably rise to pay for it.
Which means i will take home less, which means they can shove the pay rise up their arses.

Excellent.

Then by the same criterea, when your house catches fire and your family are in peril, or you get trapped in a car wreck, the Fire Fighters can all stand and watch you burn, because you will not give them the pay rise they deserve.

As for the exagerated claim that they are demanding 40%, it is blatantly obvious that, the original position (demand) they took, was a starting position, a wish for scenario, to get the employers to talk.

That worked, they talked and on at least THREE occasions they got to an almost workable agreement, only to be told by the Tory Labour Government, that they could forget it.

There is only one party to blame for this strike, and it is not the Fire Service Union, nor the Local Employers.

[insane_in_da_membrane]

Originally posted by YahweII


I've corrected your spelling for you.

My spelling was correct,
You merely changed the meaning of what I said.

Tell you what. All those in favour of 40% pay rise can pay for it with their taxes. The rest of us can remain unaffected.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Woof
If they get 40%, then taxes will probably rise to pay for it.

Thats hardly the fault of the firefighters. The government could easily cut spending from less important areas to pay for it - they just choose not to.

Or we could just sack all the firefighters and replace them with 1 of the other 39 applicants for each position.

[Geeza]

Originally posted by Cocaine
Or we could just sack all the firefighters and replace them with 1 of the other 39 applicants for each position.

of course some people would have to burn while we trained them, as long as it's not me eh.

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Thats hardly the fault of the firefighters. The government could easily cut spending from less important areas to pay for it - they just choose not to.

They could pay for the firefighters out of funds if they cancelled other things like benificts, probably yes.
But do you really think they could pay for the nurses, police officers, teachers, doctors etc when they demand a 40% pay rise too?
Why should the firefighters get the big increase and not other services?

[Snurx]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Can we hold you responsible as well? You arent helping people out of burning buildings either.


The fact that they want to help others gives you the right to force them to work underpaid, because its their "duty" to be a firefighter and help you, no matter what the money involved is?

1. No, as i have no intention off helping people out off burning builidings, and i would only hamper their work, since i have a problem whit my spine. (I cant run, or climb)
2. Nope, but they are firefigthers, and they have a duty. I agree whit their figth for more money, but striking and endagering "innocent" people is not the way to do it, in my opinion.

[Miserableman]

They should settle for 16%. Any more is too much, which will entice other essential public sector workers into wage negotiations. Don't talk crap about firefighters living in Central London - do the police and teachers take home 100K a year?

What I would like to know is exactly what happened this morning, when the deal was called off at the last minute. Both sides are blaiming the other, and it's difficult to know what to believe :O/

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax


They could pay for the firefighters out of funds if they cancelled other things like benificts, probably yes.
But do you really think they could pay for the nurses, police officers, teachers, doctors etc when they demand a 40% pay rise too?
Why should the firefighters get the big increase and not other services?

The other emergency service workers may well deserve a payrise as well. Why is paying people what they deserve such a horrible outcome? Not doctors and nurses though, because they have the option of going private if they want more money, whereas the police and firefighters are in the unfortunate position of working in a (fully justified) monopoly industry.

Given that providing emergency services to the popution is one of the primary reasons for governments existing, I dont see why the salaries of people performing these roles should be cut because of the government wasting billions of pounds on frivalous things, such as social securty and the NHS. Its all about putting priorities in the right order.

[Deffeh]

Heres a thought :


What if we are coming to an age in technology where there is not enough jobs for everyone?

What if we are coming to a point that we cant afford to pay people what they deserve ?

If firefighters nurses doctors police teachers all get the wages people deserve

taxes go up, and up

the poor get poorer still, and will remain unemployed

etc, etc.