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Unread 21 May 2006, 16:01   #51
Shyne
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Re: I want a Second Planet

I see problems such as using the other planet to 'jgp' by providing a gal status to your main.

Wouldnt it be better to have another type of upgrade, incorporating these scan planets into the same planet?

Say you buy a 'scan comet' which orbits your planet.

It has its own constructions which you pay for - but the key is that you can construct on the comet and the planet simultaneously.

Or call it a satellite, thats superficial anyway.

I dont think an additional planet is really what is wanted, rather just an extra feature to you current.
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Unread 21 May 2006, 16:17   #52
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Re: I want a Second Planet

I can't see why constructions really come into the scanning debate. The fact it's an absolute chore to scan and help out (and that's why people scan with the current system, to help others) is important, and certainly there's an argument for changing the way scans are researched (perhaps not FA). What's not needed is for a load of satellites or multi planets to appear with endless amplifiers.

Part of planetarion is and should be about making decisions based on limited information.
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Unread 21 May 2006, 16:21   #53
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
I see problems such as using the other planet to 'jgp' by providing a gal status to your main.
Another great argument in favor of private galaxies!

Quote:
I dont think an additional planet is really what is wanted, rather just an extra feature to you current.
I think you're wrong. I'm basing this on people who have said "I would pay for multiple planets if it weren't against the rules." Which is actually more than have said "I'd pay for a scan planet if it weren't against the rules."

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
I can't see why constructions really come into the scanning debate. The fact it's an absolute chore to scan and help out (and that's why people scan with the current system, to help others) is important, and certainly there's an argument for changing the way scans are researched (perhaps not FA). What's not needed is for a load of satellites or multi planets to appear with endless amplifiers.

Part of planetarion is and should be about making decisions based on limited information.
You just answered your own question. The constructions factor in because of the secondary role of scanners: to build >140 amps. The primary role being to research scan technology so bigger planets can use their early research time on more pressing tech like ETA, HCT and hulls.
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Unread 21 May 2006, 16:33   #54
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Sorry, I assumed multiple planets in their entirity would never be allowed; so a scan upgrade would be the halfway house.

I cant see this ever working though, and people should only have one planet in my personal opinion.
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Unread 21 May 2006, 16:59   #55
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
I cant see this ever working though, and people should only have one planet in my personal opinion.
Why though? It's completely useless to say that it offends your sensibilities. Tell us why.
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Unread 21 May 2006, 17:04   #56
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
You just answered your own question. The constructions factor in because of the secondary role of scanners: to build >140 amps. The primary role being to research scan technology so bigger planets can use their early research time on more pressing tech like ETA, HCT and hulls.
I don't think constructions should come into the debate for change.

For me, allowing people a second account to build 140 amps (which is easy as hell when you're playing properly, waking up and whatever) makes the game less interesting. Jackie, NitinA and myself found trying to attack the DD galaxy last round was a great challenge not because they cross-defended well but because there was very few people that could scan them. We had to make a hundred difficult decisions because there's very few scanners who are awake late at night. Having to work with limited information and working around scanner problems might be awkward but it's also fun and interesting.
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Unread 21 May 2006, 21:38   #57
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Re: I want a Second Planet

a friend of mine once told me that he found playing one planet a bit boring, and that he multied to have more fun and to give himself more of a challenge - when I talk to my rl friends who are ex-players they all talk of wanting to be able to legally control multiple planets. Its worth pointing out that in a lot of cases having multiple planets actually makes the game harder and more troublesome. Yes multiple planets could perhaps be abused to make one planet supremely better than another - but wouldn't the other rules (if well policed) on farming, support planets etc deal with this kind of abuse.

Note: I'm not saying I'm in favour of multiple planets per account etc, I just think its time this is discussed properly.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 01:43   #58
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Re: I want a Second Planet

just rank people with multiple accounts by calculating their average score (total score/number of planets). added to the limitations in interaction, this should prevent players from using extra planets to boost the main one.
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Unread 22 May 2006, 13:07   #59
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
just rank people with multiple accounts by calculating their average score (total score/number of planets). added to the limitations in interaction, this should prevent players from using extra planets to boost the main one.
now thats an interesting idea - we could have planet rankings and player rankings - give a prize for player but not for planet or something
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Unread 24 May 2006, 12:43   #60
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Re: I want a Second Planet

I think that people in general that want to prioritize scanning can do that. It's up to every player.
If you need a scan, ask somebody unofficially.
But you don't need two planets to scan...
I have only one planet, and I work out just fine

If you want an official "scan" planet, maybe they should be limited to the ammount of members in an alliance, than to every "private" person.
an alliance with 100 memembers could have X ammount of scan planets.
It would be the alliance leaders responsibility to maintain these accounts, these accounts cannot build any sort of ships...

It would be cool to call them COM-centers.
It would be possible to attack these , and kill some wave amps to make it harder for the scanners
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Unread 25 May 2006, 18:59   #61
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Re: I want a Second Planet

I think Banned is right, everybody's saying that it'll ruin the game having mutiple accounts but not explaining anything.

Having 5 accounts would mean whenever you were offline you'd have 5 accounts vunerable. Everybody would ship farm and there would be a load of ships in the universe and a load of unprotected roids. You could news scan sombody and hit all his planets at one. To me this sounds like a lot of fun.

Even with farming ok'ed what harm would it do really? It changes the game but only adding another dimension...after however many years of the same thing couldn't we handle a little depth?

I don't see change from where things are now as a bad thing. drastic change sounds good.
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Unread 26 May 2006, 00:00   #62
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Maybe planet conquering could be implemented in PA:Next to add an extra dimension of complexity to the game. I'm not suggesting the ability to totally destroy players, but the ability to control more than one planet. Players could have the ability to spread the risk by having multiple weaker planets, or have a much stronger planet but having the risk of losing a lot more at one location.

The main problem with it is that the entire game needs rebalancing to support it. Otherwise it would end up similar to multis, where they can grow and defend each other without any penalty.
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Unread 26 May 2006, 00:26   #63
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Re: I want a Second Planet

I still cant see the problem of having multiple accounts, if I wanted to do it I could. I could get past the MHs, however I have a conscience so wont. But I would like too for a bit of fun. Its a bit strange as a product I buy, I cant actually buy multiples of the product in which sense its limiting.
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Unread 26 May 2006, 00:27   #64
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Hero
Maybe planet conquering could be implemented in PA:Next to add an extra dimension of complexity to the game. I'm not suggesting the ability to totally destroy players, but the ability to control more than one planet. Players could have the ability to spread the risk by having multiple weaker planets, or have a much stronger planet but having the risk of losing a lot more at one location.

The main problem with it is that the entire game needs rebalancing to support it. Otherwise it would end up similar to multis, where they can grow and defend each other without any penalty.
This doesn't actually address the topic at all. The question isn't actually "Should people be able to have multiple planets?" It is: "Should people be able to have multiple accounts?"
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Unread 26 May 2006, 10:43   #65
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
This doesn't actually address the topic at all. The question isn't actually "Should people be able to have multiple planets?" It is: "Should people be able to have multiple accounts?"


I think it should be limited to 1 account per. person, that's to make it fair.


Instead of having multies, I believe it would be better to substitute it by having empty planets hidden in the universe that are possbile to take over and build like a planet. Or it could be possible to construct your own planet.


I argue for it because, that it would be possible to lose your planet if it's not protected enough, for those that want multiple planets, it would add an extra factor that all of their planets, except the one they actually payed for could be totally destroyed or even captured

It would add a whole new edge to the game,


Before I used to believe that if you payed it doesn't matter how many accounts you have, the PA team get their money, and you get your accounts. Real simple, but now, I believe that it's better having the one account limit. It's more fair that way.
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Unread 30 May 2006, 10:26   #66
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Re: I want a Second Planet

I guess pig will soon come up with "I want a Second Life"
reason: the one he has he decided to play PA and its no fun at all
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Unread 30 May 2006, 17:08   #67
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Re: I want a Second Planet

How about a different round 20?
Paid planets get 3 planets, unpaid gets 2 planets.
No ally's.
You should get major inc;s waves, and way more def.
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Unread 30 May 2006, 17:19   #68
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
a friend of mine once told me that he found playing one planet a bit boring, and that he multied to have more fun and to give himself more of a challenge - when I talk to my rl friends who are ex-players they all talk of wanting to be able to legally control multiple planets. Its worth pointing out that in a lot of cases having multiple planets actually makes the game harder and more troublesome. Yes multiple planets could perhaps be abused to make one planet supremely better than another - but wouldn't the other rules (if well policed) on farming, support planets etc deal with this kind of abuse.

Note: I'm not saying I'm in favour of multiple planets per account etc, I just think its time this is discussed properly.
I am unsure about this idea of allowing people to have more then one account/planet. Even if they were hardcoded not to interact with each other, i still think it can be abuseable in some way. And personaly Why should people for example be allowed to have 2 oppertunities of winning the game when others choose to have one? Isnt that classed as an unfair advantage? That would mean people who for example only have the time/money to run one planet have to then FORCE themselves to make time and run 2 planets to have the same oppertunity of winning the round as somone else does with 2 planets. (bassicaly they would need to do the same thing to compete fairley) You might then have people using fake nicks, being spies in certain alliances. Isnt that a disadvantage? Surely they are able to spie easily now there allowed to have another planet. All they have to do is of course use a different nick. Im sure the admins wont check up on that as they cant track over irc. So that would bring the discusion of spies to a whole new level.

Now i can see your point about people thinking it is boring to have just the one account, but simply perhaps then they are playing the wrong game? Where would it also stop? Would they then get bored of playing 2 planets and want a third? I think this is a very bad idea. The reason WHY MultiHunters were brought in was becuase people having more then one planet were getting out of hand. And i think although you could stop the planets from interacting it still doesnt mean its fair on other members. (an example is the spie thing i menetioned ealier, it would make it much harder for alliance HCs to track it) So i would vote against this idea.
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Unread 30 May 2006, 19:03   #69
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Re: I want a Second Planet

cba to read all posts but relating to the 2nd planet, isnt 1 enuff surely? the concept of scan planets etc is how the games grown to be, they shudnt be illegal, if thats how someone wants to play (very un-selfish way i might add) then good on them for helping their friends. 2nd planet?? no no seriously -- how to enforce rules if your allowed 2 planets? answer: its alot harder

should people be ABLE/ALLOWED multiple planets? no ofc not
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Unread 31 May 2006, 04:30   #70
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
the whole idea of the scan research tree is absurd, just allow all scans from the start and people who want amps/dists will go build them in constructions as they see fit.
Obviously the easiest, and best idea!

Any form of multiple planets is definately going to cause trouble, one way or the other, there's always one pe0n that finds some clever way of exploiting such a thing, and b00m that round is shot...

I vote for jerome
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Unread 31 May 2006, 06:19   #71
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Re: I want a Second Planet

I think people should be aloud to buy as many accounts as they wish, money speaks volumes in the real world.. why not on our sad little internet game?
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Unread 31 May 2006, 09:29   #72
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
I am unsure about this idea of allowing people to have more then one account/planet. Even if they were hardcoded not to interact with each other, i still think it can be abuseable in some way. And personaly Why should people for example be allowed to have 2 oppertunities of winning the game when others choose to have one? Isnt that classed as an unfair advantage? That would mean people who for example only have the time/money to run one planet have to then FORCE themselves to make time and run 2 planets to have the same oppertunity of winning the round as somone else does with 2 planets. (bassicaly they would need to do the same thing to compete fairley) You might then have people using fake nicks, being spies in certain alliances. Isnt that a disadvantage? Surely they are able to spie easily now there allowed to have another planet. All they have to do is of course use a different nick. Im sure the admins wont check up on that as they cant track over irc. So that would bring the discusion of spies to a whole new level.

Now i can see your point about people thinking it is boring to have just the one account, but simply perhaps then they are playing the wrong game? Where would it also stop? Would they then get bored of playing 2 planets and want a third? I think this is a very bad idea. The reason WHY MultiHunters were brought in was becuase people having more then one planet were getting out of hand. And i think although you could stop the planets from interacting it still doesnt mean its fair on other members. (an example is the spie thing i menetioned ealier, it would make it much harder for alliance HCs to track it) So i would vote against this idea.
examples of how in other "games" spending more money gives u a better chance of "winning":

u can buy as many lottery tickets as you want
u can buy as many of thoose chocolate bars that might give u a prize as u want
u can pay for as many eve online or world of warcraft accounts as u want

when the game was free and had poor anit-bot tools then it was far far to easy for one person to control many many planets, this is now not the case and though there would of course still be an impact of someone having multiple planets it would be far less than it used to be and possibly even a benefit due to the declining player base. For example say next round all the top alliances lost half their members - when playing as an alliance why does it matter if they replace thoose with "multi" planets or new recruits - the impact on the alliance wars will be the same. Therfore perhaps the best way to prevent undue advantage from allowing multiple planets is to remove the individual success part of the game and fully focus it on galaxies and alliances.
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Unread 31 May 2006, 11:46   #73
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
when the game was free and had poor anit-bot tools then it was far far to easy for one person to control many many planets, this is now not the case and though there would of course still be an impact of someone having multiple planets it would be far less than it used to be and possibly even a benefit due to the declining player base. For example say next round all the top alliances lost half their members - when playing as an alliance why does it matter if they replace thoose with "multi" planets or new recruits - the impact on the alliance wars will be the same. Therfore perhaps the best way to prevent undue advantage from allowing multiple planets is to remove the individual success part of the game and fully focus it on galaxies and alliances.
This is a scary example of PAteam getting it. Obviously the time off has done Kal some good. A key thing people need to realize is that 1 person controlling 5 accounts is not inherently better than 5 people controlling 5 accounts.
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Unread 31 May 2006, 11:59   #74
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
This is a scary example of PAteam getting it. Obviously the time off has done Kal some good. A key thing people need to realize is that 1 person controlling 5 accounts is not inherently better than 5 people controlling 5 accounts.
o rly?

I imagine everyone who can afford it will have one planet of each race and a scan-planet. His main planet will be zik ofc and will be farmed from the other planets with ships. As there is a scan-planet as well, the zik will be a distwhore ofc. So we will have the top 100 with ziks only that can have every possible combination of fleets all of them with ****load of dists. Couldnt imagine anything funnier...
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Unread 31 May 2006, 15:49   #75
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
examples of how in other "games" spending more money gives u a better chance of "winning":

u can buy as many lottery tickets as you want
u can buy as many of thoose chocolate bars that might give u a prize as u want
u can pay for as many eve online or world of warcraft accounts as u want

when the game was free and had poor anit-bot tools then it was far far to easy for one person to control many many planets, this is now not the case and though there would of course still be an impact of someone having multiple planets it would be far less than it used to be and possibly even a benefit due to the declining player base. For example say next round all the top alliances lost half their members - when playing as an alliance why does it matter if they replace thoose with "multi" planets or new recruits - the impact on the alliance wars will be the same. Therfore perhaps the best way to prevent undue advantage from allowing multiple planets is to remove the individual success part of the game and fully focus it on galaxies and alliances.

May i ask how there going to replace players within an alliance with other accounts of there own, if there is supposed to be hardcoded limits to prevent the accounts from interacting? would bugger up the alliance attacks/defence wouldnt you agree?

And as far as the examples you used there not relevent here. Since when do you have control over the lottery? You buy many ticks sure, but you dont do anything else other then await the outcome. With PA accounts you PLAY THEM meaning YOU make the outcome.


And for people who say 'wouldny this bring in more money?' Well, perhaps instead you could for example get your friends to play the game? There is around say 3k players, all get somone to play that makes 6k players. I would consider that more of an achivement then allowing others to buy more then one account.
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Unread 31 May 2006, 16:25   #76
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
There is around say 3k players, all get somone to play that makes 6k players. I would consider that more of an achivement then allowing others to buy more then one account.
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Unread 31 May 2006, 17:20   #77
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robsch
o rly?

I imagine everyone who can afford it will have one planet of each race and a scan-planet. His main planet will be zik ofc and will be farmed from the other planets with ships. As there is a scan-planet as well, the zik will be a distwhore ofc. So we will have the top 100 with ziks only that can have every possible combination of fleets all of them with ****load of dists. Couldnt imagine anything funnier...
farming would still violate the eula u know
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Unread 31 May 2006, 17:22   #78
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
May i ask how there going to replace players within an alliance with other accounts of there own, if there is supposed to be hardcoded limits to prevent the accounts from interacting? would bugger up the alliance attacks/defence wouldnt you agree?
I agree with banned that hardcoded limitations would not be needed.

I'd add though that I think allowing multiple accounts right now would be a bad things, but I think thought should go into it with any serious PA redesign.
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Unread 31 May 2006, 19:02   #79
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Re: I want a Second Planet

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Originally Posted by Kal
farming would still violate the eula u know
I dont think this was ever executed, and certainly it wont, when everything is allowed. - You cant proove its really farming other than if its a multi, so if multiing is allowed, you cant proove farming whatsoever.
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Unread 31 May 2006, 20:10   #80
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robsch
I dont think this was ever executed, and certainly it wont, when everything is allowed. - You cant proove its really farming other than if its a multi, so if multiing is allowed, you cant proove farming whatsoever.
thats not true at all - planets are closed for farming when they are not multis as well - both the farming and especially the support planet provisions of the eula are reasonably straight forward to enforce.
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Unread 31 May 2006, 21:00   #81
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Re: I want a Second Planet

didnt read all so might already been said

However I see the chance to achive 2 goals with a better idea:
All alliances with more than 2ppl in get 1 scan planet.
this planet is controlled by the officers.
they can controll: Researching scans; Building amps; see galstatus

the scan planets wont need to launch fleets for JGPs
the scan planet can get attacked like a normal planet
the scan planet wont cost anything and no credit needed to res JGP (so small alliances get the scans for free (if 4ppl of a 20man ally are scanners its much harder for the ally as if it is 4 scanners in a 60man ally)

there were some other ideas on the scan planet but they just vanished
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Unread 31 May 2006, 21:59   #82
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Re: I want a Second Planet

here is my suggestion.
Take Scanning out of planetary composition whatsoever and substitute is with following


I dreamed up a page in alliance section called "scanning"
and it will work the following way:
1.) Amps will still need to be build, but using alliance fund for cost of construction (Using normal construcion costs) Construction time should take into consideratoin that people who build dists also need to build other things, and this specific idea does not really need naything else except amps.

2.) access to the page will be granted to any full member of the alliance. The resourses that are needed for scans will be taken out directly out of planet resources. Possibly, officers in the alliance will have access to the full scan database for reference reasons.

3.) every separate planet WILL STILL HAVE TO DO the needed research, and only after research is done, the specific scans will open (i.e. if Unit scans have not been researched U will only be able to do planet, surface and tech scans). That will not competly eliminate need for alliance scanners, as someone will have to sacrifice some timing in order to research scans asap, but it will not completly ruin a round for a scanner.

=====================================================

this idea is open to discussion and further improvement.

(and btw, that completly defies the topic of the thread about another planet *g* sorry )
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Unread 31 May 2006, 22:16   #83
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighteh
here is my suggestion.
Take Scanning out of planetary composition whatsoever and substitute is with following


I dreamed up a page in alliance section called "scanning"
and it will work the following way:
1.) Amps will still need to be build, but using alliance fund for cost of construction (Using normal construcion costs) Construction time should take into consideratoin that people who build dists also need to build other things, and this specific idea does not really need naything else except amps.

2.) access to the page will be granted to any full member of the alliance. The resourses that are needed for scans will be taken out directly out of planet resources. Possibly, officers in the alliance will have access to the full scan database for reference reasons.

3.) every separate planet WILL STILL HAVE TO DO the needed research, and only after research is done, the specific scans will open (i.e. if Unit scans have not been researched U will only be able to do planet, surface and tech scans). That will not competly eliminate need for alliance scanners, as someone will have to sacrifice some timing in order to research scans asap, but it will not completly ruin a round for a scanner.

=====================================================

this idea is open to discussion and further improvement.

(and btw, that completly defies the topic of the thread about another planet *g* sorry )

i was thinking something like this yeah, only it shud be accessable by officers and HC only. used for alliance attacks, but alliance needs to pay for the research into diffrent scans out of there fund, should make it expensive so that all the alliance has to chip in for it.. team unity etc.
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Unread 1 Jun 2006, 02:25   #84
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
thats not true at all - planets are closed for farming when they are not multis as well - both the farming and especially the support planet provisions of the eula are reasonably straight forward to enforce.
o rly? how come planet who made rank 2 last round hasnt been closed then?
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Unread 1 Jun 2006, 09:54   #85
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robsch
o rly? how come planet who made rank 2 last round hasnt been closed then?

becuase you think they were cheating but they wern't actually?
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Unread 1 Jun 2006, 12:08   #86
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Re: I want a Second Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
becuase you think they were cheating but they wern't actually?
but quite a few people openly admitted on forum they were farming him with ships to make him win the round.
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Unread 1 Jun 2006, 15:29   #87
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Re: I want a Second Planet

and for that reason those planets were closed. That certain zik didnt do n e thing wrong. Alot of planets were also lamminrunning him trying to get him closed for that reason.
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Unread 9 Jun 2006, 05:18   #88
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Re: I want a Second Planet

again and again, over and over...
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Unread 19 Jun 2006, 20:07   #89
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Re: I want a Second Planet

From reading the first part of this tread I suggest that rather then adding the option of a second planet remove amps and distorters and start planets with full scan tech. This seems to be what it boils down to.

If we add pure scan planets they would only have amps and distorters would be void for all then fleet scan.


The other discussion here is if PA should allow multiple planets.

For me personally, I have enough problems with balancing 1 PA planet and RL, I don't need 1 more!
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Unread 19 Jun 2006, 23:57   #90
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Re: I want a Second Planet

1 planet should be enough for everyone as not all players are of the same level an unfair adavantage would be there for good players with more acounts
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 00:11   #91
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Re: I want a Second Planet

well as an idea you could have a new race which has advantages on scanning but then agian i think we should have much more races!!!
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