"My 2 cents"

[Klendau]

I re-registered for these forums yesterday, in order to randomly flame people like the good old days, however I find less and less people to abuse. I sit in my revolving leather chair, spinning, contemplating the downfall that we/you as a community have witnessed over the past weeks and months, and the most concerning fact of all is that in an average 360 degree rotation of my luxury swivel chair, I can come up with countless reasons. Planetarion is in a bad way, and failure from the admins to sort this out will result in the inevitable - closure. WIthout a community why would they bother?

I signed back onto the forums for the first time in months, and unfortunately it was of no suprise to me to see that the 'Departure' sub-forum was one of the most used. Browsing only the first page of this endless list of famous, infamous, loved and hated names leaving this community, I shed a tear for what was once the 'game' that kept us at home on a Friday night, got us out of bed in the early hours of the morning, and developed friendships which will undoubtedly stay in our memory until our time is up. I wouldn't like to think of myself as a particular 'geek', I admit that i'm no David Beckham, however I also insist that I'm no Stephen Hawking. Countless times I set my alarm for xx:55 in the night, and actually got out of bed to launch fleets, sort defence, and chat to friends. Hell, sometimes, I was so excited about the sheer monumental importance of my attacks that I couldn't even get to sleep, and I would come and sit in a darkened room with only the dim glow of my monitor lighting my evening. I would check my account twice an hour, read my politics forum every 10minutes just incase someone had posted, and see just how far my galaxy was from the top rankings. Is this sad? Was my life a pointless waste of time? Would I change these 2 years of my life if I could? Hell No.

I played 9 and a half rounds of Planetarion, I stuck with the game through the whole 'pay 2 play' issue, I even gave the totally different game a try (much to my disgust, may I add). I admit I was, at some points, not the most dedicated of players, I often left my planet for a few days when The Legion, Fury or Xanadu roided me until my planet was unworthy of a fleet slot, but who didn't? My real life was affected by what happened in an online game, I would be annoyed at school if my previous night's roiding had failed, I skipped lectures more times than i'd like to admit in order to keep up to date with my tick plan, I loved this game and everything about it. But today, I look on IRC, a once vibrant place, full of people chatting, fighting, laughing, and I see nothing. #VtS rivalled #Planetarion as the most popular channel only a few months ago, now there are 28 people there. How, I ask myself, could this have happened? I used to show off to my real life friends about being a top100 planet, now I am almost ashamed to be associated with what Planetarion has become. This statement may seem entirely harsh, but it's true, and I think Administrators need to start listening, not necessarily to a babbling old fool like me, but to the community it needs and once held so dearly.

I don't even know/care how many people are playing 'actively' nowerdays, I shudder to think. It would utterly astonish me if even 100 people played at the same level as 10,000 in Round 2/3/4. If I saw half the people I saw in those days playing again, I wouldn't think twice about playing actively again, a thought I imagine I share with thousands of others who still have a vague interest in Planetarion. I'm no tactician, I'm no businessman, I'm just a teenager with too much time on his hands who wants something to do with his spare time, so I am by no means the right man to make any suggestions to the PA Team about how they should ammend this problem, but this is why I wrote this thread. If everyone who has an idea threw it into the hat, and they were seriously considered and discussed by the people who have the power to change it, then maybe this once great game stands a chance of reviving it's past glory. I'm one of the people who believes in the glass being half full rather than half empty, however I'm not a fool - I know that there will never be the same community, nor even the same interest generated from all corners of the world in the game, however I still believe deep down that this game can be revived, and it must.

So I say to you, fellow gamers, <insert ideas & comments here>.

And if, as I well expect, you have nothing but laughs for my comments, and intend on flaming me accordingly, feel free, it's what I played this game for..

Yours ever faithfully,
Klendau.

[Wainie]

lmao

[SilverSmoke]

well written Klendau. You almost made baby jesus cry.

[Ice]

Nice, but the only idea that can revive this game imo is donations and make a free round to get new players: /

[WhiteSnake]

its impossible to revive this game, since I am no longer playing it

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by WhiteSnake

its impossible to revive this game, since I am no longer playing it

And then your signiture:

"WhiteSnake - Friday Night Poker, year III

Retired PA player for round X. Back someday later. "



If you come back, I'll come back

[Recluse]

I'm a nobody. Highly doubt anyone even knows me on these boards, but I been around. Played since Round 3. Not exactly a Vet, but not a newb anymore. I still enjoy hearing people who did just like me :P The sleepless nights when you had massive incoming, missing work becuase you just *knew* you were gonna get massive incoming, setting the alram for news scanning your targets etc. And yes, the friendships forged over the past few years will no doubt hold a place in my memory for life. The names that I saw took shape and grew into the people I knew. No longer was I talking to a friend from town, or even from another state, but to people all over the world.

Now it's dieing. What once was a large and bustling community is now a ghost town. People no longer wanting to play to their best ability, simply content to get along. and now we have what, 2500 players? 3/4 are free accounts? What happened to the thousands who flocked here?

PA is about to flatline. My suggestion would be free rounds again, but I don't know if that would even work now. Perhaps going back to pre-round 9 stats and gameplay would bring more back. I think the -1 ETA for in game alliances killed alot of the new players who had no alliance or even friends. After all, I don't know about veryone else, but when I joined PA I knew noone, and only met my galaxy m8's. Also race-specific targetting is something else that should be brought back. Xans/Terrans kill, Ziks subvert, and caths freeze. I've played Cath/science my whole career in PA, and even tho it's fun to kill stuff, The good ol days were back when freezing was all you did. Maybe we'll see more in Round 11, or maybe we'll be down to 2k players? 1k even? Who knows, but unless something is done I see no hope for a round 12. :/

[Klendau]

Agreed Strider2k, free rounds are the obvious solution - But this alone will not fix the problem in my opinion. Pre-round9 stats would definitely raise my interest levels, as tbh, I don't give a fk about covert operations and destorying structures, I want to intimidate my enemies with a huge fleet of Thieves & Pirates.

Bring back Rounds 2/3/4 - Those stats were awesome.

[lokken]

Round 2 stats would be big mistake.

Everyone would build thieves/pirates and it'd be dull :|

r6/7 stats are the proverbial win, however.

[SilverSmoke]

stats doesnt really matter, we just need everyone and their family back in

[Spinner]

This issue has been discussed to death a thousand times, and it is impossible to cover all aspects of the complex scenario that spans more than 3 years back.

But since we are only after solution here, not great books on the subject, I think it is only fair that I get to share my 2 cents as well.

There are 2 main problems with a decreasing userbase, and they are nigh impossible to solve.
It is a spiral, that can only go one way.

First of all, ever since going p2p, the numbers have stooped every round. No matter which stats or which features or which bugs or which multi.scandals, since P2P, every round we saw roughly 60 % of the playerbase vanish. In a strange way, 10.5 is the round that has managed to hold on to its users best, but I suspect that the less players there are less, the closer we are to a higher percentage of "extreme loyalists" who will not leave before they have to (:

Naturally, I am convinced that a P2P Planetarion has virtually no future.
And here is the spiral effect:
As long as people leave between rounds, the game is increasingly more boring, hence more users are going to leave next round.

Round 9.5, a free round, is the only round since P2P that had an increased number of players. It doubled the number of planets, and most people agree that 9.5 was a tad more fun than the ones after, which brought us back down to half of what round 9 had. So, every P2P round goes a long way towards killing it.

The trouble is, it does cost money ot run a game like this, and if you want any level of professional hosting, maintainence, stable servers etc, it costs.

It has also been learned that speedgames are not going to solve the monitary challenge, not when the userbase is so small.

The only cure that all my experience can show, is this:
- Keep the main game free, not for a round or two, but forever
- Run speedgames now and then which are p2p, to at least get some expenses paid
- Plan on breaking even with speedgames when the main game has regrown due to being free
- Keep developing the game to make it better ofc

This is one of the few solutions that would work, imho. The problem with this solution, is that Jolt can not spend the kind of money this solution would require, to support a free game for a long time before seeing any income worth mentioning at all maybe a year down the line.
That was my 2 cents I guess, too bad those 2 cents aint enough to cover the cost of the solution

[Lord_Thunderball]

Go all in hands of Jolt.

- But I wanne add some point. Make money out of speedrounds to get some expenses paid.
- Make an easy system where ppl can donate who are supporting the game

So that would be 2 ways to earn money. As always(since r8), it's op to Jolt, not to Mr Spinner
So let's wait, cry and see..

[Jackal2112]

- Make PA free, but let every player register a 'personal account'. This account should then be linked to the forum account as well and be used 'forever' and for every round when this person is signing up to a 'planet account'. This way it will be made harder for multies because they'd have to sign up an identity for every planet account they would want to setup in a round, since planet accounts would be restricted to 1 planet per 'personal account'. this is kinda complicated but using such a system you can flush out multies and cheaters much easier from your game.
- Make it possible for people to give donations. Don't promise bullsh1t like t-shirt etc, etc, donations should be 'free of expectations', that way people will not cry about it afterwards either. I am sure I would donate some money and I am sure other people would do it to, if PA was free.
- Give people who donate some kind of 'status' or 'donation points', which is shown in their Forums ID in some way or on the portal in a top 10 donation wh0res list or something, this would stimulate people to make a donation at least (or make up levels from what someone donated in total ie 10$ = salvation army soldier, 20$ = amateur beggar, 100$ = rich and famous).. be creative. It will definitely stimulate people.. (I should know I am part of a community for wares and stuff where such a system is used - there it is called kudos)

For this to happen PA will have to be free.. at least the main game. But since Jolt bought PA...
Also we would need some people without a life to code and maintain the game..
And ofcourse FREE hosting..

MIssion Impossible?

[[Smurf]Pies]

Nice i still have a account on here didnt think i would!

nice speach klen mate, what spinner is saying is tru in his post but i'm sure ppl had been saying that idea since it was gonna become p2p, and its now in such a state that it wouldent work to do that now, even with free rounds. i dont know the answer to it as i'm not a genious but i'm sure a pile of ppl gota a opion :P

[Ice]

I think the best thing to do, in terms of Spinner's post is work out how much it would cost to run the server for a round, get donations or run P2P on weekends, and then open the round for free.

Then when more players are playing, more people would play P2P speed rounds and could even form a league of speedrounds if it become a popular thing.

You wont know unless you try....

[General1]

Klendau is MY HERO

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by General1

Klendau is MY HERO

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by Ice

You wont know unless you try....

Coming from a man on Ice's level, this statement is remarkably true.

p.s lo Ice

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by Spinner

Long thing

You speak the truth Spinner my dear, however theorising and hypothesising will not bring back the community - actions speak louder than words, make something happen thxplzta.

[Citizen Kabuto]

Free would be really nice and maybe even ,in time, bring a lot more ppl into the game.
Would all these players be multi accounts, new players or even some of the old timers coming
back to wreak havoc on the universe.TBH I am not bothered if its free or p2p, the biggest gripe i have with the game is Alliance Domination.
Every round is the same with slightly altered code etc,
Alliances pact with each other, trash the weakest for 200 ticks then start on the weaker alliances till the top few have to fight each other.
I constantly try to introduce ppl to the game or get them to play again, usual answer is no point alliance x will win or i am not spending money and investing time into something that a group of ppl can wreck overnight .
We know its a wargame of sorts we do expect to be hit ,we would love to hit back but thats damn nigh impossible for solo players and even small alliances.
The last beta test was a nightmare because some ppl decided that they would see if they could run it like a speed round and have a battle group ffs.
PA has more problems than just p2p or diminishing numbers.
Thing is if all of the lowbies left then you might as well just run speed games of top 100 planets or something.
Maybe if we could get some bot planets into the game so we can all have a go , then again maybe not , as the big alliances would get them first :-)

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by Citizen Kabuto

Maybe if we could get some bot planets into the game so we can all have a go , then again maybe not , as the big alliances would get them first :-)

Average skilled bot planets has certain advantages, however the argument against it would be that nobody wants to play against a bot. I would like to believe that if the PA Team re-introduced free rounds for the forseeable future, and promised certain elements of the game to be improved, or even reversed (getting rid of 'Covert Ops' for example?), then the player base would increase substancially.

The only problems with scrapping these new features, is that some people who are playing now would dislike reverting to the 'old school' version of PA, and may quit themselves, putting us back in the same position. This can be combatted of course, if PA Team were adamant in producing a game that was enjoyable again, then the people would come back. Round9.5 was a huge success considering is relative irrelevance in the grand scheme of things, and this was simply because it was free, and interest started to generate around Planetarion again, something that had not happened for a long time.

In my opinion, the only way PA can be saved is to go back to the game that was loved by all in the days of r2-r6 or so. But more importantly, it needs to be free to play, and players need to know that the coming rounds will be free of charge also, so people won't think twice about forming alliances, reforming old ones, and starting new ones.

[Gerbie]

Originally Posted by Spinner

...

There are 2 main problems with a decreasing userbase, and they are nigh impossible to solve.
It is a spiral, that can only go one way.

First of all, ever since going p2p, the numbers have stooped every round. No matter which stats or which features or which bugs or which multi.scandals, since P2P, every round we saw roughly 60 % of the playerbase vanish. In a strange way, 10.5 is the round that has managed to hold on to its users best, but I suspect that the less players there are less, the closer we are to a higher percentage of "extreme loyalists" who will not leave before they have to (:

Naturally, I am convinced that a P2P Planetarion has virtually no future.
And here is the spiral effect:
As long as people leave between rounds, the game is increasingly more boring, hence more users are going to leave next round.

Round 9.5, a free round, is the only round since P2P that had an increased number of players. It doubled the number of planets, and most people agree that 9.5 was a tad more fun than the ones after, which brought us back down to half of what round 9 had. So, every P2P round goes a long way towards killing it.

The trouble is, it does cost money ot run a game like this, and if you want any level of professional hosting, maintainence, stable servers etc, it costs.

It has also been learned that speedgames are not going to solve the monitary challenge, not when the userbase is so small.

The only cure that all my experience can show, is this:
- Keep the main game free, not for a round or two, but forever
- Run speedgames now and then which are p2p, to at least get some expenses paid
- Plan on breaking even with speedgames when the main game has regrown due to being free
- Keep developing the game to make it better ofc

This is one of the few solutions that would work, imho. The problem with this solution, is that Jolt can not spend the kind of money this solution would require, to support a free game for a long time before seeing any income worth mentioning at all maybe a year down the line.
...

I might be one of few people who is optimistic. Let me try to explain why.
As Spinner said, and what I see when looking around me is that this round does seem to hold on to it's players in contradiction to earlier rounds.
PaX might not have been well balanced at first, but that's what happens when you make major changes in too little time. This round is already looking a lot better and as time goes by we may even end up with a well balanced and really fun game to play.
I don't think that keeping the main game free is the way to go. What we have now seems to work. I started out free, got hooked again and payed.

Running speedgames is always a good idea.

The main thing is that we need to continue to develop and improve the game. Not too much at a time, but bit by bit. (We don't want to wait months inbetween rounds for the next round to start.) Thus making every round a little new. There are suggestions enough. It's time to pick the best idea's and start implementing them.
I.m.o. the main goals should be:
- make the game more balanced between different alliances (blocking problem);
- make it easier for smaller players to compete at the same level with the big boys;
- make the game more dynamic (look for ways to get more action/day: speed it up somehow); this will also allow shorter rounds, allowing a higher annual income or cheaper rounds;
- get positive and stop thinking the end is near.

By continuing with this game at least there will be a small income. That's better than none. A free game is not a good idea.

[Citizen Kabuto]

Speeding things up may well help, reducing the research and construction times a bit and maybe even going for 30 minute ticks.Then would that handicap players with no access from work , school etc.
If the planet cost was kept to about 3 for £10 same as speed series, then you effectively play a round of pa for less than a pack of cigs.
At that sort of price you would be mad not to play.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Citizen Kabuto

Free would be really nice and maybe even ,in time, bring a lot more ppl into the game.
Would all these players be multi accounts, new players or even some of the old timers coming
back to wreak havoc on the universe.TBH I am not bothered if its free or p2p, the biggest gripe i have with the game is Alliance Domination.
Every round is the same with slightly altered code etc,
Alliances pact with each other, trash the weakest for 200 ticks then start on the weaker alliances till the top few have to fight each other.
I constantly try to introduce ppl to the game or get them to play again, usual answer is no point alliance x will win or i am not spending money and investing time into something that a group of ppl can wreck overnight .
We know its a wargame of sorts we do expect to be hit ,we would love to hit back but thats damn nigh impossible for solo players and even small alliances.
The last beta test was a nightmare because some ppl decided that they would see if they could run it like a speed round and have a battle group ffs.
PA has more problems than just p2p or diminishing numbers.
Thing is if all of the lowbies left then you might as well just run speed games of top 100 planets or something.
Maybe if we could get some bot planets into the game so we can all have a go , then again maybe not , as the big alliances would get them first :-)

are you telling me that when u started, the only thing on your mind was winning? when i started pa, it was in school and during computer club, every1 in the room wanted to be the biggest. when there are enough planets, the game turns into a personall battle, and all you care about is beating your friends. u sign up, your friend signs up, play for a while, and then your friends friend signs up, and his friend, and then your having a small commmunity of people who play for fun, and these little commmunitys are what make the big ones.

Alliances are always going to be around, and they will always dominate the game.

[bmwoody]

Originally Posted by Ice

u sign up, your friend signs up, play for a while, and then your friends friend signs up, and his friend, and then your having a small commmunity of people who play for fun

True, true... My best friend's cousin showed him the game in round 3. He showed me and another friend in round 4, we showed a few other friends in the following rounds... By round 9 we had a galaxy full of locals, plus some... One of the most fun rounds

[derry]

well, imo aslong as the game keeps P2P the game will die, the game as it is in 10.5 is maybe as good as it was in <9.5 (except for the part that there are less players then that round )

its atm indeed harder for new ppl(fro now on refered as noobs ) but which game aint hard for noobs.

If they get on irc then they won't have a prob finding an alliance either, but to get em on irc, thats the tricky part.

Maybe a way 2 solve the p2p problem is a system like Star-sphere where the round is free, but you have 2 pay 2 get 1)sms alers 2)lower eta.

a lot of ppl will wine that it aint fair for those without phone, well i played 10 rounds without, never missed it

for the eta advantage, well you only have 2 pay

just my 2 cents

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by derry

Maybe a way 2 solve the p2p problem is a system like Star-sphere where the round is free, but you have 2 pay 2 get 1)sms alers 2)lower eta.

That has the potential to be a very good idea. If used alongside the previous idea of introducing regular p2p speedrounds, then it could well subsidise the main game enough to offer free rounds for the forseeable future.

The only problem that arises with these suggestions, is that people will learn to live without SMS Alerts or Lower ETA's, so they will not be interested in paying for these priveledges, it would also mean that those who could afford these rights/had the ability to pay for them would have a huge upper hand on the competition, especially with the Lower ETA. SMS alerts are something that our galaxies generally do for free, so that is not as vital as the ETA, however it still a useful tool. There are a number of additional features that paying users could be given if they donate, such as resource boosts, however this could create unrest amongst players who are unable to get these bonuses - They could simply be told to stfu, as without the donators, they would not be playing, but it could well cause problems within the community.

As Ice said earlier, the only way to find out, is to try.

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by Citizen Kabuto

Speeding things up may well help, reducing the research and construction times a bit and maybe even going for 30 minute ticks.Then would that handicap players with no access from work , school etc.
If the planet cost was kept to about 3 for £10 same as speed series, then you effectively play a round of pa for less than a pack of cigs.

At that sort of price you would be mad not to play.

- People don't want 30minute ticks, Planetarion is a 1hour tick game. A change of such importance would have to be discussed with the community in great detail.

- Handicapping players who no access from work, school etc. is not essentially a good idea, they would probably not sign up in the first place, or quit as soon as times got bad.

- Charging £10 for 3 rounds of PA is of course a fair price for the user, however I sincerely doubt it is the cost that annoys gamers, it's the fact that they have to pay. The only way to guarantee an influx of new players whilst keeping the old ones is to make it free.

At that sort of price, you would be mad not to play.

[Tesla]

Originally Posted by Klendau

- People don't want 30minute ticks, Planetarion is a 1hour tick game. A change of such importance would have to be discussed with the community in great detail.

- Handicapping players who no access from work, school etc. is not essentially a good idea, they would probably not sign up in the first place, or quit as soon as times got bad.

- Charging £10 for 3 rounds of PA is of course a fair price for the user, however I sincerely doubt it is the cost that annoys gamers, it's the fact that they have to pay. The only way to guarantee an influx of new players whilst keeping the old ones is to make it free.

At that sort of price, you would be mad not to play.

They shud try to blag several irc networks into giving them "globals" as commercials for the game.. i.e "Sign up to planetarion now at www.planetarion.com" etc (heh..preferrably something more catchy, hardly rocket science tbh)
Networks like undernet, efnet, quakenet etc has a huge potential for influx of new players. More so than adds in magazines.

Tesla

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by Tesla

They shud try to blag several irc networks into giving them "globals" as commercials for the game.. i.e "Sign up to planetarion now at www.planetarion.com" etc (heh..preferrably something more catchy, hardly rocket science tbh)
Networks like undernet, efnet, quakenet etc has a huge potential for influx of new players. More so than adds in magazines.

Tesla

lmfao telsa you're funny!"!£!21

P.S, I agree entirely with that idea.

[[Smurf]Pies]

Originally Posted by Ice

when i started pa, it was in school and during computer club, every1 in the room wanted to be the biggest.

HAHAHAHA computer club

[Zotnam]

#1 Klendau is a F A G !

#2 I think the game is as good as it gets with so few people.. gaining roids is harder, and tbh with r7 stats/setup the game would be very boring. The alliance features and the 1 hour battle is ok too, people just need to realize that growing will take longer.. The alliance eta bonus for def also means that there is alot less friendly fire, ppl defending friends etc. Which is a very good thing :> I didnt really play last round, idled a free planet, and I like it this round, thing is that maybe a new name, image would be better, because this isn´t planetarion as it was 2 years ago.. placed adds in other irc networks is indeed a good idea, more advertising on the net and maybe even a pa team member that deals exclusivly with noobies. Making pa free would help alot, with these stats/setup too! 10 allies of equal size, would be great fun I bet! Fact is, for the player base that is there atm, this IS the best stats

[Ice]

Originally Posted by [Smurf]Pies

HAHAHAHA computer club

yer, got you out of work? play pa etc for a few hours a day, heh

[[Smurf]Pies]

Originally Posted by Ice

yer, got you out of work? play pa etc for a few hours a day, heh

and once again i say

HAHAHAHAH computer club!

[The Globe]

nice one Klendau

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by Ice

yer, got you out of work? play pa etc for a few hours a day, heh

LIAR!

"Computer Club" was a voluntary lunchtime affair which means you are infact the biggest geek I know Ice, I will now proceed to speak the words of Pies:

HAHAHAHAH computer club !

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by The Globe

nice one Klendau

Suggestions appreciated dearest

P.S I love you

[Klendau]

Originally Posted by Zotnam

#1 Klendau is a F A G !

#2 I think the game is as good as it gets with so few people.. gaining roids is harder, and tbh with r7 stats/setup the game would be very boring. The alliance features and the 1 hour battle is ok too, people just need to realize that growing will take longer.. The alliance eta bonus for def also means that there is alot less friendly fire, ppl defending friends etc. Which is a very good thing :> I didnt really play last round, idled a free planet, and I like it this round, thing is that maybe a new name, image would be better, because this isn´t planetarion as it was 2 years ago.. placed adds in other irc networks is indeed a good idea, more advertising on the net and maybe even a pa team member that deals exclusivly with noobies. Making pa free would help alot, with these stats/setup too! 10 allies of equal size, would be great fun I bet! Fact is, for the player base that is there atm, this IS the best stats

Hi Golan.

I have only a few words to say about this; PaX was poo.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Klendau

LIAR!

"Computer Club" was a voluntary lunchtime affair which means you are infact the biggest geek I know Ice, I will now proceed to speak the words of Pies:

HAHAHAHAH computer club !

bleh

[NastyNick]

Nice thread Klendau
As for stats, I liked the R9 stats :gollum: