i think this a great idea

[wu_trax]

http://www.moveamericaforward.org/?Page=Petition

go and sign. i seriously dont want the organisation that represents the whole world to be located in a country full of christian fanatics, militaristic nationalists and generally insane people.
i dont get the point about the payments though. if you want to reduce payments you need to pay something in the first place.

[Radical Edward]

I signed up as

Kofi Annan
UN Headquarters
First Avenue at 46th Street
New York,
NY
10017

online petitions aren't worth the paper they're written on.

[Weeks]

Edwards you're a twat.
And I agree with inf in the fact your blatently hiding the closet.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by Weeks

Edwards you're a twat.

why's that?

And I agree with inf in the fact your blatently hiding the closet.

I'm what?

[Weeks]

I was in such a rush i missed out an 'in'. I apologise.

[Radical Edward]

err dude, I'm happily married, to a member of the opposite sex. so the odds of the closet thing are a tad low.

[wu_trax]

wtf are you people talking about?

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

wtf are you people talking about?

God knows. I was just taking the mickey out of that petition a bit, and then he launches into some pointless ad hominem on me and accuses me of being gay (I assume that is what he means by the closet thing). GD I suppose.

[wu_trax]

ok then, someone wanna say something about the topic? i could translate this: http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/18/18876/1.html here, which probably would make a more intresting topic to dicuss, but im really not THAT bored just yet . i like the picture though, reminds me of the good old times when we had a Führer too.

[JonnyBGood]

It's no coincidence that the recent decline of the UN has occurred under non-white leadership I'll tell you that for free.

[Radical Edward]

you said they don'T pay anything, but don't they pay ca 25% of it?

[JonnyBGood]

Say hello to the UN budget.

[Radical Edward]

heh, why am I not suprised.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

you said they don'T pay anything, but don't they pay ca 25% of it?

this is less about how much they are supposed to pay and more about how much they actually pay.

[Sunday8pm]

Didn't the US withold payments and contributions to the UN as recently as Bush coming into term though?

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Didn't the US withold payments and contributions to the UN as recently as Bush coming into term though?

thanks to jbg here you go:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/finance/...et/large04.htm

on a national state level these amounts are a joke anyway, i mean what are a 100 million for a goverment? bush spend 100 billion for bombing random countries and these right wing nuts complain about 360 million (of which less than 1/3 is paid anyway)
(im assuming here that assessment means what the individual countries should pay)

[Tactitus]

Clearly we're paying far more into the UN than it's worth.

And I fully support moving UN headquarters somewhere else. The land it occupies is valuable and could be used for something productive. North Korea or Zimbabwe come to mind as countries which exemplify the UN ideal, but pretty much anywhere else would make it marginally easier to ignore.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

North Korea or Zimbabwe come to mind as countries which exemplify the UN ideal

[IncubusGod]

Right wing states are just great! I'm so glad* America is one.





*bile duct draining spleen crushingly furious


It's not like the U.S. actually pays any heed to what the U.N. or international law says anyway. Yet they do seem to invade and bomb other countries for ignoring the same things...

[nick]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

err dude, I'm happily married, to a member of the opposite sex. so the odds of the closet thing are a tad low.

it just makes it all the worse, especially when you have kids!

"Hey son, I'm a homo".

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Anyway on-topic the UN is a bit crap.

maybe its not perfect (see that whole oil-for-food-incident this all is about), but its the best we can get right now. id take a crappy UN over american darwinism any day.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by nick

it just makes it all the worse, especially when you have kids!

"Hey son, I'm a homo".

**** you and the horse you rode in on.

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

maybe its not perfect (see that whole oil-for-food-incident this all is about), but its the best we can get right now. id take a crappy UN over american darwinism any day.

i know what you mean but i just thought that i should just point out that most americans dont believe in darwins theories, well, most bush supporters anyway

[mist]

i thought that was his point...

-mist

[roadrunner_0]

thats not what it scans like to me

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

i know what you mean but i just thought that i should just point out that most americans dont believe in darwins theories, well, most bush supporters anyway

depressing isn't it? what a bunch of numbskulls.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

thats not what it scans like to me

no, you are right, it wasnt. my point was that most americans seem to belive that its ok if the strong tells the weak how to live. thats kind of a 'society'-darwinism, where on the long run only the supposedly 'strongest' form of society (i.e. american capitalism with american democracy survives and replaces all other forms of how we may live together.
and yes, its kind of funny that in such a country people dont even belive in the darwinism in nature. ( and its also funny that in society in which star trek and the prime directive were invented people so much dont get it )

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

no, you are right, it wasnt. my point was that most americans seem to belive that its ok if the strong tells the weak how to live. thats kind of a 'society'-darwinism, where on the long run only the supposedly 'strongest' form of society (i.e. american capitalism with american democracy survives and replaces all other forms of how we may live together.

well that is just memetics for you - those societies which evangelise more and are more adept at pandering to those subconscious needs (or fooling the mind into thinking those subconscious needs are/can be pandered to i.e. the American Dream) will inevitably spread. I would be wary of atributing darwinism though, since memes do not inherit in a typically darwinian fashion, but can cross-inherit more or less arbitrarily with the caveat that the new memes must function well within the current memeplex and hence destroy any possibility of matched socio-hierarchies. you also have to be rather careful using the word darwinism around the word social or society, because it will get obfuscated with the hideously false social darwinism, which makes entirely independent errors of its own.

[Marilyn Manson]

Signed it as:

Mrs. Herbert-Ludwig von Tyre-Outremer,
The Mark Twain Starlite and Dancing Room,
Suite Four,
Coupboard Two and Three Quarters,
Riyadh,
Saudi Arabia.

No,No,[email protected]

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

no, you are right, it wasnt. my point was that most americans seem to belive that its ok if the strong tells the weak how to live. thats kind of a 'society'-darwinism, where on the long run only the supposedly 'strongest' form of society (i.e. american capitalism with american democracy survives and replaces all other forms of how we may live together.

What do you call it when you make up the other side's position so you can argue against it?

and yes, its kind of funny that in such a country people dont even belive in the darwinism in nature. ( and its also funny that in society in which star trek and the prime directive were invented people so much dont get it )

Star Trek and the Prime Directive are fiction, Jim. And not even good fiction.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Signed it as:

Mrs. Herbert-Ludwig von Tyre-Outremer,
The Mark Twain Starlite and Dancing Room,
Suite Four,
Coupboard Two and Three Quarters,
Riyadh,
Saudi Arabia.

No,No,[email protected]

I think posting your personal details on a forum is a bit dangerous to be honest.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

well that is just memetics for you - those societies which evangelise more and are more adept at pandering to those subconscious needs (or fooling the mind into thinking those subconscious needs are/can be pandered to i.e. the American Dream) will inevitably spread. I would be wary of atributing darwinism though, since memes do not inherit in a typically darwinian fashion, but can cross-inherit more or less arbitrarily with the caveat that the new memes must function well within the current memeplex and hence destroy any possibility of matched socio-hierarchies. you also have to be rather careful using the word darwinism around the word social or society, because it will get obfuscated with the hideously false social darwinism, which makes entirely independent errors of its own.

its one thing if one culture influences another (like if we go and watch an american movie or eat at mc donalds, if you accept that as examples), but quite another if force is used to take control of a country and then you enforce your values on the population of that country.
(and use less big words, im too stupid for that )

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

I think posting your personal details on a forum is a bit dangerous to be honest.

Possibly true.

[queball]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

What do you call it when you make up the other side's position so you can argue against it?

Psychosis?

Star Trek and the Prime Directive are fiction, Jim. And not even good fiction.

And not really relevant. A pre-warp civilisation cannot physically harm the Federation's interests. The military already tend to try not to intentionally mess up harmless people like groups of nomads.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

its one thing if one culture influences another (like if we go and watch an american movie or eat at mc donalds, if you accept that as examples), but quite another if force is used to take control of a country and then you enforce your values on the population of that country.

but is there a real difference? It is part of the cultural mindset that it "enforces" its culture on others. Hence the enforcing of culture is simply a part of the culture and my original argument applies. my main concern though was your use of the word darwinian. It's out of context when talking about culture, since the inheritance mechanisms are different.

(and use less big words, im too stupid for that )

what you say?

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

but is there a real difference? It is part of the cultural mindset that it "enforces" its culture on others. Hence the enforcing of culture is simply a part of the culture and my original argument applies. my main concern though was your use of the word darwinian. It's out of context when talking about culture, since the inheritance mechanisms are different.

yes, there is a difference. if i have a choice i see no problem. if i really wanted to, i could watch a french movie.
i dont think the word darwinism is that bad in this context. sure, the mechanisms may be different, but the endresult is the same: the dominant version replaces the others.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

yes, there is a difference. if i have a choice i see no problem. if i really wanted to, i could watch a french movie.
i dont think the word darwinism is that bad in this context. sure, the mechanisms may be different, but the endresult is the same: the dominant version replaces the others.

darwinian encompasses so much more than mere "survival of the fittest" and even this is in itself somewhat of a misnomer and an irritating cliche that Darwin should have stayed well clear of in the first place (it wasn't his idea). if all that concerns you is the end result, then you could equally say lamarckian or phagocytically, and land yourself with a totally different set of accompanying baggace (actually I think the US culture is more Phagocytic than any of the other options)