Children in this country should be sold into slave labour

[NEWSBOT3]

especially this one.

A 10-year-old boy has been convicted of driving while disqualified...

like, what the ****.

someone, somewhere, beat some ****ing sense into this idiot.
or just get him addicted to drugs so he wipes himself out or something.

[Radical Edward]

that was the 2nd time he was disqualified. though kudos to his parents for having him charged. It makes me wonder why they do something else with him though.

[NEWSBOT3]

if i was his parents, he'd be shipped off to one of those places in mexico where they take all their possessions off of them and teach them to respect people for 6 months before they let them home.

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Dark_Mage
what the hell kind of place is that?

As a parent I think its a good place

Vaio

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally posted by Dark_Mage
what the hell kind of place is that?

basically, you take child to mexico, leave child with people until child is ALLOWED to come home.

child has everything taken off them, and has to EARN every little thing, like salt + pepper at meal times etc, by good behaviour, once they've reached a certain level they are allowed phone calls, and eventually they let them home again.

it works, apparently.

i cant find a link for the place though

[Snurx]

NB3, thats monstrus. Really, children reflect their elders.. (Parents, teachers, policeofficers, generally people whit authorithy)
Children gone bad are the effects of bad parenthood, bad educationsystem, or generally a bad system.
If children **** up totaly, charge the school and the parents. The best way to teach children respect is to show them respect.

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally posted by Snurx
NB3, thats monstrus. Really, children reflect their elders.. (Parents, teachers, policeofficers, generally people whit authorithy)
Children gone bad are the effects of bad parenthood, bad educationsystem, or generally a bad system.
If children **** up totaly, charge the school and the parents. The best way to teach children respect is to show them respect.

i disagree.
i dont think think that parents can be wholey responsible for their childrends developments, and either way, something needs to be done about it.

i'm not saying all children should be put through it, just those that are clearly incapable of behaving properly.

[poshphil]

I don't think bad parenting is necessarily the problem. For example, one family I know, one of the kids is the biggest **** i have ever met, but the other kid is all right.

[Snurx]

Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
i disagree.
i dont think think that parents can be wholey responsible for their childrends developments, and either way, something needs to be done about it.

i'm not saying all children should be put through it, just those that are clearly incapable of behaving properly.

Im not saying that parents have all(or any blame), but often, authorothy people in the childs past/persent is to blame. In fact, (to my knowlengde form RL, not from any statistick or examination) teachers are more often to blame then the parents..
Before blaming parents, i think you should always look at the educational system for the error.
Anyways, its still monstrus, as children should not be leant respeckt that way. That's not respect, its fear. Respect goes both ways, and if people start respecting children/youths, and meeting them on equal ground, there would be so much lesser problems (or at least, i would belive it would be).
Anyways, they should be teached to behave throught love and understanding, not fear. It's when they're starting to become teens that harder measures should be used, if they're not yet capabale of behaving properly!

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

The parents should invite Gary Glitter to stay...

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally posted by Snurx
Im not saying that parents have all(or any blame), but often, authorothy people in the childs past/persent is to blame. In fact, (to my knowlengde form RL, not from any statistick or examination) teachers are more often to blame then the parents..
Before blaming parents, i think you should always look at the educational system for the error.
Anyways, its still monstrus, as children should not be leant respeckt that way. That's not respect, its fear. Respect goes both ways, and if people start respecting children/youths, and meeting them on equal ground, there would be so much lesser problems (or at least, i would belive it would be).
Anyways, they should be teached to behave throught love and understanding, not fear. It's when they're starting to become teens that harder measures should be used, if they're not yet capabale of behaving properly!

i think we need to define some things clearly here
children = less than 13
teens = > 13

clearly, the behaviour camp should only be applied to teens.

but yes, the overall system is flawed somewhere, for a start i dont think a lot of todays parents have any clue (or even for that matter intended to have children), and so have made very little effort at being a good parent.

then again, the school system does nothing to encourage/improve behaviour

[Ebany]

Given an increasing number of parents ARE teens (and not neccesarily late teens either) it could explain one way things are going downhill...as for the whole parents, teachers thing, I know one family where the two older children are pretty well normal, and the youngest is an absolute terror (he always was, but at the ripe old age of 18 or so, hes really getting into it). They all went to the same schools, and have had pretty similar upbringings, hes just....... appalling. (This isnt purely a personal opinion, he has been in troubvle with the police numerous times, and would have been more if his parents werent still soft with him. As an example, he sold his parents video (with one of my brothers tapes still in it) to get some cash to buy....well, who knows....but most people in the village have their opinions...he and his mates also have a tendency to terrorize the village after theyve been on the booze a bit, people generally stay indoors.
While I agree children should be given respect, they have to give it back too. It shouldnt be all one sided either way. It is the nature od children to test their parents and see what they can get away with. With the increasing horror at the very idea of smacking a child, or even disciplining in almost any fashion, there is becoming less and less to really bring home to a child what is very very bad. I was spanked on rare occasions, only for doing things I knew were wrong, and very wrong at that, but I wanted to push my parents and see if it was REALLY as bad a thing as they told me. I have never resented my parents for it...ok, I may have a slight kinky side, but who knows if that would have been there anyway
Parents need to have some tools to use in disciplining their children. I agree that child beating is bad, but a swift smack across the bum stings for 5 minutes and is soon enough recovered from. Maybe the rewards approach as is suggested for training pets would work, but then kids who are bad would probably moan that they are mistreated cause they dont get the rewards that good kids get.
Its a tough area. Having no kids of my own, its hard to know how I would feel. But something needs to be done somewhere.

[pablissimo]

I encountered people at Uni who I never thought existed from my age range; those who hadn't had a twatting as a kid when they did something wrong.

And they seemed bemused by the idea of being hit for breaking the rules.

What... the ****?
There should be a parental contract saying 'I'll beat **** out of the bastard if he ****s about' before people are allowed to conceive.

That or some kind of social responsibility bill, 'whatever'.

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by idimmu
And yes, it is I who should decide who lives and who dies!

No kids. Screw kids. Noone really likes them. They should pass a law whereby everyone is born 21 and ready-educated.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by pablissimo
I encountered people at Uni who I never thought existed from my age range; those who hadn't had a twatting as a kid when they did something wrong.

I was never hit as a child. I don't think I suffered particularly for it...

Also, it'd be interesting to see what proportion of violent murderers were punished with violence as children. Quite a high amount I suspect.

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
I was never hit as a child. I don't think I suffered particularly for it...

Also, it'd be interesting to see what proportion of violent murderers were punished with violence as children. Quite a high amount I suspect.

Quite a high amount are of an age where 'back then' it was the thing to do.

And I'm not saying necessarily that if you weren't given a twatting you won't turn out alright, but when you see all these little ****houses out and about in supermarkets etc with their parents either not caring, or giving in to their demands, or god forbid trying to reason with them it makes me sick that they eventually manage to 'blame computer games', 'their friends', 'society' instead of their own inability to lay down the law.

2 cents.

[QazokRouge5]

When reading the title of this thread i thought you would be talking about africa.

Silly me.

[MrBrick]

10 yr old child : "Can I borrow the car Mum?"

Mother "Yeah, ****it"

---

Righty then.

I'm with NB3 on this one.

[Plastic-Wrap]

I remember when I was hit for being bad I WOULD DO IT AGAIN and beat the **** out of any other little kids around me! Then my mom tried a different tactics and stopped hitting me when I did bad things and then I really stopped being bad and started being good.

[Demon Dave]

what i really don't get is how a 10 year old can be disqualified, since he was never really 'qualified' in the first place. but NEWSBOT is right, there was recently a 13 year old charged of drink driving ffs!! what IS this country coming to? i suppose that's what you get for letting Tony Blair run the country

[W]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Also, it'd be interesting to see what proportion of violent murderers were punished with violence as children. Quite a high amount I suspect.

And which way do you think the causal arrow goes, if this holds?

[NEWSBOT3]

i propose a law whereby all people are neutered (temporarily) at birth, and only allowed to reproduce once passing an exam proving that they are capable of being a good parent.

[W]

Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
i propose a law whereby all people are neutered (temporarily) at birth, and only allowed to reproduce once passing an exam proving that they are capable of being a good parent.

I disagree completely. Noone should have to be tested by outsiders for suitability. I do however wholeheartedly support any method for childred to challenge the suitability of their parents, from as early an age as possible.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by W
And which way do you think the causal arrow goes, if this holds?

Forwards not backwards, upwards not downwards and always twirling, twirling towards freedom!

[W]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Forwards not backwards, upwards not downwards and always twirling, twirling towards freedom!

It always goes forwards. Question is if it goes forward from behaviour to punishment and crime, or forward from punishment to behaviour and crime.

Either way you got no case, and I think your point is wrong.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by W
It always goes forwards. Question is if it goes forward from behaviour to punishment and crime, or forward from punishment to behaviour and crime.

Either way you got no case, and I think your point is wrong.

I had a point?

[W]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I had a point?

Your apparent point.

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally posted by W
I disagree completely. Noone should have to be tested by outsiders for suitability. I do however wholeheartedly support any method for childred to challenge the suitability of their parents, from as early an age as possible.

actually W, im not sure if you know how the driving test system works over here, but i was thinkig something similar to that.

basically, you need to pass
1) Computer based question and answer session on rules of the road etc
2. ) Computer based hazard perception (so you are more aware of potential problems etc)
3. 45 mins of driving with an Assessor, including various road maneuvers, different roads etc.

what im thinking of is translatiing this to parent, so that its actually not about testing suitablity at all, its about making you prepare for, and learn to be good at, something that you need to do for the rest of your life.

The testing just exists to ensure that you do that, not to actually measure anything at all.

[W]

Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
actually W, im not sure if you know how the driving test system works over here, but i was thinkig something similar to that.

basically, you need to pass
1) Computer based question and answer session on rules of the road etc
2. ) Computer based hazard perception (so you are more aware of potential problems etc)
3. 45 mins of driving with an Assessor, including various road maneuvers, different roads etc.

what im thinking of is translatiing this to parent, so that its actually not about testing suitablity at all, its about making you prepare for, and learn to be good at, something that you need to do for the rest of your life.

The testing just exists to ensure that you do that, not to actually measure anything at all.

As I just read in a pratchet book, "Laboratory animals, in a controlled environment, do as they damn well please".

I do not think "upbringing" can ever be blamed for anything at all.

That said, parents gets too many rights when it comes to control over a child. The entire idea that someone growing up should be "shaped" or that they can be, is so totally flawed.

[Sandsnake]

Originally posted by W
Your apparent point.

It wasn't his point.

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally posted by W
As I just read in a pratchet book, "Laboratory animals, in a controlled environment, do as they damn well please".

I do not think "upbringing" can ever be blamed for anything at all.

That said, parents gets too many rights when it comes to control over a child. The entire idea that someone growing up should be "shaped" or that they can be, is so totally flawed.

so you dont think that good or bad parenting has any effect at all on children ?
i find that very hard to believe personally.

what im talking about is making people better members of society, rather than the utter ****wits that currently fill my country.

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

Originally posted by W
I do not think "upbringing" can ever be blamed for anything at all.

That said, parents gets too many rights when it comes to control over a child. The entire idea that someone growing up should be "shaped" or that they can be, is so totally flawed.

Another group of people believed the evironment counted for nothing. They were called nazis

Btw how many children r u exposed to that have not been brought up in the right environment?
Meh mum teaches the buggers and from the stories she tells, i'm more inclined to believe her than you. Sorry.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
Another group of people believed the evironment counted for nothing. They were called nazis

The nazi's didn't believe that.

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
The nazi's didn't believe that.

eugenics?

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
eugenics?

just because they had a policy of eugenics doesn't mean they didn't believe in the environment.

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
just because they had a policy of eugenics doesn't mean they didn't believe in the environment.

Haven't we had this discussion on here before loads of times?

They put down people with 'inferior' geneotypes, thereby saying that other factors including the environment in which they lived and were brought up, could not 'redeem' them.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
They put down people with 'inferior' geneotypes, thereby saying that other factors including the environment in which they lived and were brought up, could not 'redeem' them.

oh I know, but then the environment was also carefully constructed in order to get people to believe twaddle like this. Look at the Mass Rallies and propaganda, the way that children were brought up in the Hitler Youth and so on... those were all carefully controlled environmental factors. As for Eugenics, I don't know enough about it to say if the leadership truly believed what you say, or whether it was just a good excuse to kill people.

[W]

Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
so you dont think that good or bad parenting has any effect at all on children ?
i find that very hard to believe personally.

what im talking about is making people better members of society, rather than the utter ****wits that currently fill my country.

I was talking about blame...

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
Another group of people believed the evironment counted for nothing. They were called nazis

Btw how many children r u exposed to that have not been brought up in the right environment?
Meh mum teaches the buggers and from the stories she tells, i'm more inclined to believe her than you. Sorry.

I was talking about blame...

If you're beaten as a child does this mean you're forced to beat your own children in turn, or disrespect the law, or any of the other things that are blamed on upbringing?

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

Originally posted by W

If you're beaten as a child does this mean you're forced to beat your own children in turn, or disrespect the law, or any of the other things that are blamed on upbringing?

Of course I'm unsure about exact correlation cause and effect in events such as beating. But, if for example when you are a kid you are caught filling your pockets with 1p sweets down the local shop and you werent punished, you more likely to think it acceptable to steal, and would be much more likely to rob a bank when you are older...

[W]

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
Of course I'm unsure about exact correlation cause and effect in events such as beating. But, if for example when you are a kid you are caught filling your pockets with 1p sweets down the local shop and you werent punished, you more likely to think it acceptable to steal, and would be much more likely to rob a bank when you are older...

Yes, but are you forced to rob a bank? Are you unable to see that stealing is unacceptable, or what the likely consequence is? Can you blame others than yourself for what you do?

I say no. Anyway, the entire legal system assumes that a person is not just a product of past events, but has a choice and can be punished for that choice. The implication is that past influences bears no responsibility.

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

Originally posted by W
Yes, but are you forced to rob a bank? Are you unable to see that stealing is unacceptable, or what the likely consequence is? Can you blame others than yourself for what you do?

I say no. Anyway, the entire legal system assumes that a person is not just a product of past events, but has a choice and can be punished for that choice. The implication is that past influences bears no responsibility.

Yes, you have a choice and may be punished for making a wrong one, (robbing a bank)

But a person may be so much more inclined to make a wrong choice where they have been exposed to an environment earlier in life where a similar wrong decision (stealing sweets) meant no punishment.

Are you truely saying the number of wrong-doers (ie in jail) bears no stastistical correlation with quality of upbringing?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Forwards not backwards, upwards not downwards and always twirling, twirling towards freedom!

The politics of failure have failed.

We must make them work again.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
But a person may be so much more inclined to make a wrong choice where they have been exposed to an environment earlier in life where a similar wrong decision (stealing sweets) meant no punishment.

you still can't blame your upbringing though. You still have the choice, as many people who have dragged themselves out of such lives will stand as testament to.

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
you still can't blame your upbringing though. You still have the choice, as many people who have dragged themselves out of such lives will stand as testament to.

I'm not blaming my upbringing. I am ace.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
I'm not blaming my upbringing. I am ace.

'one can't blame their upbringing'

fs don't make me go round looking like a posh git.

[Deepflow]

bah

you people make me sick.