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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 14:34   #51
genosse27
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

1) i love structure killers :P they give bashing a new sense
2) yes, to higher the n00b protection is a good idea, like in other games it should be 50% of your own value
3) dont think u can realize this

if u make a decent n00b protection i see no reason to remove str.killers
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 14:36   #52
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
And to be honest after reading this many comments how bad and mean structure killers are - up to the point that they are frowned upon and used as reason to remove players from alliances - i think to myself it must be fun to sign up with a handfull of friends and heavily invest in SKs to land on as big alliance planets as we can

If the game balance would give that a chance, it sounds like fun.
that's what i do atm, i am trying to bash 1up scanners with str.killers
its really funny

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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 15:01   #53
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Calling you gal small is as far from right as it gets imo Forest.

My gal is well outside the top50 and just the other day we had well over 50 fleets inc, from planets both big and small.

1.) I dont have anything in particular against structure killers, ive not bought any this round and ive not gotten any incs containing structure killers.

2.) Yes and No. I wish there could be a weay to make the limit different the bigger you get.

So that small planets could only be attacked by small planets, and big planets could only attack big planets. At the moment i find it sad when i see planets more than twice the value of my galm8s sending hordes of big ships just to steal every last ship from my galm8s and crush them back to the stoneage.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 16:26   #54
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

1.) dislike structure killers as roids take no time to re init or steal back structures take time to get back. Also getting roids back after being fleetcaught with Sks in the fleet that kill all ur factories can make things a little harder.

2.) i dnt know the full workings of the bash limits but why not base it on score as this would either make the game lower scoring or stop people keeping thier vals low so as not to be hit.

3.) i really dnt know how it could be put in (but then again i dnt know much)

Last edited by Sebos; 11 Sep 2005 at 16:30. Reason: It made little sence still prolly doesn't but at least i tried
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 16:31   #55
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

To me it seems alot of ppl are missing the point of this thread, the question is not who is doing the bashing (as i happens in all playing levels of the game), but more as how to solve it.

1) as many i donīt like struct killers, i donīt use them and consider the a waste of resources. However, in a real war, i find them having a purpose to weaken your enemies. I donīt consider targets on gal raids to be my anyways, they are just a way to improve my alliance itīs position, it doesnīt help killing a targets structure if you are not facing a long-term battle with them.

2) I am much in favour of a system that reduces or removes gains if you bash lower planets. Like some Intergalactic Council that protects the interest of lower ranked planets (compared to the attacking planet). I consider attacking planets around 75% your value to be a max that should be allowed for full gains, below that gains in roids (and perhaps ships when it comes to stealing) should be dramatically decreased to simply remove the usefullness of attacking smaller planets for some easy gains.

Have the attacking fleet either fight at less efficiency. If you for example attack a planet half your size, your fleet only fights at 50% of its true power (dealing less damage, being able to take less roids etc). "Due to their believes in honour your pilots refused to give their full support in the battle and only fought at half their strength".

3) I donīt see the reason for reducing the amount of incs planets can get if there will be a decent bash protection built in.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 17:07   #56
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

http://game.planetarion.com/show_news.pl?id=17035

That really is a lol.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 17:31   #57
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

As soon as I saw that this thread was by Forest, I knew this thread would be fun

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticYoshi
BTW the attack on your gal today shouldn't be as heavy as it should be (especially on the smaller roid targets). I think a couple of attacks got combined from different alliances by 'accient', heh.
That's correct. I picked 4:7 for VGN's main attack last night, which was perfectly reasonable considering your galaxy's number of roids and your score. A quick check for other alliances' pre-launches at about 1am spotted that F-Crew were also hitting 4:7. I remember sighing out loud at the time and knowing that your galaxy would get gang-banged, but there was nothing I could do at that time of night. A quick think back to earlier in the round recalls one night when a VGN galaxy received incomings from ND, Insomnia and Coven. It happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
I mentioned vgn, because they did the same a few days ago, and when I queried the ethical side of it I was told by there hc it was part fo the game, and it was because i had 10 deflectors, which there members wanted dead. (That on its own insinuates that they will be returning again and again, as there ios no other reason for em to take down 10 of my deflectors).
Structure killers are part of the game. I don't like their use though, especially if we're hitting a galaxy. If a VGN member came to me for advice on his/her fleet, I would tell them to take the SKs out if we were hitting a galaxy. If we were hitting an alliance though, I would consider it no-holds-barred as far as fleet composition goes.

As for your 10 deflectors, I'd want to verify that before passing judgement on it. If you wish to provide me with proof, please pm me rather than clogging up the boards with IRC logs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
VGN is doing gal attacks, so have no reason to bash planets into oblivion. 1up is attacking those who actively seek to destroy us, its a proper war and we are hitting actives who are hitting us. VGN are just hitting randoms, and inactives as much as poss.
Sorry for not being in a war galaxy attacks are serving us perfectly well at the moment, and we see little need to get into a war at this stage of the round. If other alliances felt the need to concentrate on us, we would of course reply in kind.

Forest, you're so wrapped up in the world of 1up vs the world that you've forgotten what it's like to be a part of a smaller alliance not challenging for #1. Your galaxy members aren't 'randoms and inactives' to the rest of the universe, only to 'leet hardcore players' like yourself.

Oh, and I'll be having a word with that specific attacker anyway. We have to guide a few of our players, unlike your pre-programmed 1upers.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 18:02   #58
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Sorry for not being in a war galaxy attacks are serving us perfectly well at the moment, and we see little need to get into a war at this stage of the round. If other alliances felt the need to concentrate on us, we would of course reply in kind.

I have np with you attacking gals rather than alliances.

The point I was making, is that there is no need for SK's in a galaxy hit situation, whereas there is in a alliance hit.

Thats all.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 18:05   #59
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
1) Do you like structure killers. No i hate them, there is no place for them in a non-war environment. Perhaps some kind of ingame war declaration thing would be good, and sk can only be sent to alliances with whom you are at war.
Dont let Forest get HC access ingame then, else his alliance would be able to send SK's at everyone Anyway, I always hated SK's. Just remove them and let the cov-ops do the rest (remove cov-ops aswell for what I care).
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 18:40   #60
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

1. Structure killers are a pain in the arse, although I have been lucky not to get hit by any this round. I haven't built a single one of them this round at all and seriously doubt I will. I seriously think it would be a good idea to prevent people from sending them except in the case of war; your idea of in-game war declaration would certainly provide an elegant solution to the random SKing nonsense.

2. I think the bash limit is fine, any higher would not only massively reduce the number of targets for the larger players but would also prevent retals by said larger players on a much larger segment of the universe - therefore disallowing them from using what I see as a perfectly valid tactic to make incs pull.

3. This idea could well work, it is kinda silly when 200-300 roid, low value players are being three waved.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 19:19   #61
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Even 1 wave on someone with 200 roids with fleets like that is just stupid, I don't mind bashing in general when people are in major alliances and at war and there are good roids to be gained, that's just part of the game, but this is just senceless. Again structure killers don't mind of only used while at war on strategic targets, but not sent allong with normal fleets.

1) Do you like structure killers

Yes and no, I think they are great for large alliance wars to take out strategic targets/scan planets/cov ops etc of enemy alliances, but for general usage in fleets no (I personally never send along to random targets because I know how fcking annoyed I am when I'm set back a few days construction wise cause someone lands on you 1 tick with sk'ers)

2) Should the bash limit by higher

I think it would be a good move, especially with how the game works now that it's almost only profitable to attack someone larger than yourself, at least raised up to 60% I'd say. I have myself only attacked planets this round similar to my value or higher, found it not really worthwhile otherwise.

3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something.

I can see the merit but I think those would not be targets for bashing that much anyways and it would severely limit what the smaller alliances can do target wise with so few planets now in the uni (even on smaller galls there are often two alliances attacking them a night piggybacking eachother, I know this is the problem you're trying to adres but then those small alliances can't grow either. It's a difficult situation.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:32   #62
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Im suprised This subject is still being spoke about. I agree it to be true. But you wont change it. I know of course there wasnt alywas strucutre killers ect but even so There used to be a lot of noob bashing in the old days. I just think this cant be prevented even though indeed it is wrong.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:47   #63
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

1. Yes structure killers should go. So should pods. And killing ships. Then noone could get hurt or feel the need to whine about in on AD.
2. Yes, bash limit should raised. At the moment the #1 planet has at least 9 targets that aren't in his own alliance. That's ridiculous: he should only have 1 target he can launch at and should be forced to launch at it every day for the rest of the round.
3. Yes, there should be a maximum number of attacks on a planet during a day. Noone would ever abuse it by trading friendly fire with oine another early in the day so they were invulnerable to attack for the rest of it. And there'd never be any confusion when prelaunched attack fleets didn't launch because other prelaunched fleets had already reached that planet's level of incs for the day.

More seriously, there are major flaws to all of these ideas. SKs, if used well have useful tactical advantages beyond actually killing structures. The threat of structure killing can be used to force attempts at defence where otherwise no such attempt would occur. When coupled with fake/wrong-class attack fleets this can be a very valuable asset to an alliance in a war.

Reducing the bash limit would mean a need to seriously re-evaluate the races. Zik in particular have serious problems attacking large targets once they've stolen a bunch of ships - as the % of their fleet that can be used in any of their attack fleets becomes very small. Rather than reducing the bash limit I'd be inclined to totally change it - and replace it with a limit that no attacker can send a fleet that is more than 50% of the target's value. I'd also tie that in to a total bash limit based on score rather than value - as planets compete for ranks based on score NOT value, so the present system can prevent you from attacking someone who's above you in the ranking. A limit of fleet of 50% of target size would also prevent ziks sending whole fleets at smaller planets to try to steal their entire fleet - and would force attacks to rely more on clever fleet composition.

Limiting the number of attacks on planets in a day is just a totally stupid idea - as it's wide open to abuse, unnecessary complication and confusion.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:52   #64
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

I hate it when sid pwns me :/
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 20:57   #65
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
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I hate it when sid pwns me :/
You should be used to it by now :/
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:03   #66
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

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I hate it when sid pwns me :/

He usally does on the forums it seems.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:09   #67
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

I don't think Negative XP could ever be put into practice. Players could be absolutely put out of the game (SKs come to mind) for fun by *just* individuals. It comes down to personal relations. If a player really despises another he or she might well choose to ruin the round of the other. That'd be ridiculously easy to achieve if bash limits were removed.

It also encourages the bashing of small players for steals while they offline, which is the last thing we want.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 22:49   #68
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
Reducing the bash limit would mean a need to seriously re-evaluate the races. Zik in particular have serious problems attacking large targets once they've stolen a bunch of ships - as the % of their fleet that can be used in any of their attack fleets becomes very small.
Thats why Zik owners should choose their targets wisely - landing on just anybody without planning will leave you with a bad fleet over time - only bad players do that and those shouldnt complain but improve. Wasnt it always the way that Zik was most difficult to play but most rewarding if you did it right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
Rather than reducing the bash limit I'd be inclined to totally change it - and replace it with a limit that no attacker can send a fleet that is more than 50% of the target's value. I'd also tie that in to a total bash limit based on score rather than value - as planets compete for ranks based on score NOT value, so the present system can prevent you from attacking someone who's above you in the ranking. A limit of fleet of 50% of target size would also prevent ziks sending whole fleets at smaller planets to try to steal their entire fleet - and would force attacks to rely more on clever fleet composition.
Using a rule of "a limit that no attacker can send a fleet that is more than 50% of the target's value." wouldnt do much unless you do that calculation on the total amount of fleet incoming to the planet. Unless you just wanted to promote larger groups

The "would force attacks to rely more on clever fleet composition." is rather subjective but depends too much on the concrete implementation and percentage values to comment it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
Limiting the number of attacks on planets in a day is just a totally stupid idea - as it's wide open to abuse, unnecessary complication and confusion.
That depends on how you actually implement it. You could use a formula calculating the damage/loss a planet received during the previous 24 hours. If that max. amount is reached, the incoming ships refuse to attack and just return. Implementing it would need to be carefully done though - otherwise losses during attacks on other planets, donations or investment could be abused. I know at least one popular game which is doing this and it works well there from what i see.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 23:57   #69
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

1. how about putting SK's on their own research, after CR/BS research? make it a long research (72 or 96 ticks or whatever) and so then alot of people wont bother wasting a ton of ticks just to be able to bash, they will get on with more "useful" researches...where as an alliance member who feels SK's to be worth buying in a war scenario will research them.

2. bash limit is fine as it is atm I think, the only problems with this round are that all races can steal (which I am against and should be removed imo, leave it to the ziks) and the exile system being a bit sucky...if you spread out the experienced players a bit more rather than letting them bunch up in the top 10 via exiles then less bashing would happen imo.
I am a value player. to be honest i dont care about XP, it comes as a side effect of gaining roids. i'm not going to complain about it, but I attack people so I can get the most roids for the least loss. with those roids I get resources, resources build ships and ships defend my friends...thats what the game is about for me.
3. as Sid mentioned, its not a great idea. cant think of a sensible one atm tho :/
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 07:59   #70
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
Using a rule of "a limit that no attacker can send a fleet that is more than 50% of the target's value." wouldnt do much unless you do that calculation on the total amount of fleet incoming to the planet. Unless you just wanted to promote larger groups
It wouldn't alter the fact that a planet can be bashed by multiple attackers I agree - but then I'd never claimed that it would. It would give solo attackers (slightly) more targets while at the same time greatly reducing the ability of solo attackers to totally bash their target (as they could only send 50% of target's value rather than the approx 200% they currently can). Some improvement is better than none - and I'm definitely not in favour of any wider change which would turn the game into purely 1 vs 1 battles.

The biggest bashings that happen to small players are where one small player sends his entire fleet at another small player around 40% of his value - with no thought put into the fleet at all, just the vague concept of "I'm zik and hes a zik half my size so i'll steal far more than i lose". It's that sort of thing that would stop.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 18:36   #71
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

I would probably make SK's if it weren't for the fact that some fool in designing tech tree for xan thought that we should have to research Siege Weapons to get them....
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:21   #72
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

i just wanted to make a short statement here.

Forest tries again to rape me. Ingame.
He is double my score, i got a free account and am alliance less.
He is again visiting me with an amount of ships i will never reach within this round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
...this is senseless bashing, and is just driving people away from the game....
dont tell me this aint senseless bashing, and yes i will probally quit over this! *cough*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
...If larger alliances did this, there would be a big outcry of how we were ruining the game...
i call 1up a "bigger alliance", i demand a big outcry now.

everyone can search for my coords, i use my nick as ruler name, and can so second the story. This aint the 1st time Forest tries to visit me and tries to ruin my planet.

Why do u make a thread about this and behave in a totally different way?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:38   #73
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Forest, say it isnt so.
Its a tad hipocritical to complain about being bashed then going out and doing the same thing to others.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:10   #74
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

ok I can field this.

Yes I am attacking Gennosse, and the reasons are two fold.

1) He stated on this thread he likes bashing, and he likes sk's because they 'give bashing a new sense'.
2) He is spending his round just building structure killers and sending them at 1up (he doesn't even have the decency to pay for his account.

Now, I am not double his size, I am 1 mill, and he is 650k. I have 88 roids, he has 250.

And the main reason. I launched on him yesterday and pulled after 1 tick, when he pm'd me. However, he stated if I dared to attack him 'he would flame me on the forums'.
So I dared to attack.

My pm now reads ..

<genosse27> bitch
<genosse27> i said i will flame u on forums
<genosse27> there u go

He made it personal, he likes bashing, lets see how he feels about that in a few days time ta.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:17   #75
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

And just to add a further point.

I didn't send sk's, I dont have sk's, and that was my main reason for the thread.

This however, is because i am a noob and forgot to build em, I fully intended to send genosse sk's, because he likes them so much.

make something quite clear, gennosse isnt some random new player, he is someone who has got into my face in an attempt to wind me up, and now he can jolly well face the consequences.

* Disclaimer: I didnt use the words 'jolly well'. I am sure it has jumped in on its own free will
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:29   #76
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

\o/ IRC logs are bad, mkay?
i also dont quote saying that i will be your main enemy for the round & u will keep coming till i am dead etc..

get your facts correct plz. i am 877k and u are 1.540k, i think we can call that double my size

i never said that i dont like bashing :-) but i dont bash "small" planets. I do strategly bashing. I do bash the #1 alliance, this is something completly different. And even if i "bash", it wasnt me who created a thread about bashing and how evul it is.

about me being a free account. I think i got the right to save the money in this round as i have some exams coming in this weeks and had to study long for it. I doubt there are many peps who paid as many accounts in pa like it did. Maybe that one GLX dude. Paul or so. Alone in Round 5 i paid ****ing 50 accounts!!

and yes, i am not new, and of course i wont quit over this. I will prolly pay next round again and bash u for it.

i just wanted to "show" that u say something different on forums as u do ingame.

and of course i had to keep my promise
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 08:00   #77
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

1,098,699 is my VALUE
630,536 is your VALUE
And thats after I roided you.

You say its ok because you bash the #1 alliance. Do you really think you can attack people and not face retaliation.

I suggest you go back to my first post, and read exactly what I said, cause it appears you don't have the foggiest idea.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 09:38   #78
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticYoshi
Noooooo don't bring eonium fuel back. Evil evil evil. Was amusing in round 1/2 tho to see the top 100 players having to save up to launch their fleets. Not amusing when you yourself have a big fleet tho, hehe
Launch wrong ONCE, and your attack is delayed a day oh the times
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 13:11   #79
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
1,098,699 is my VALUE
630,536 is your VALUE
And thats after I roided you.

You say its ok because you bash the #1 alliance. Do you really think you can attack people and not face retaliation.

I suggest you go back to my first post, and read exactly what I said, cause it appears you don't have the foggiest idea.
i think u may have forgot that the game is about score.
and about the roiding, nub u bite the fake ingal def congratz :P at least for one of your waves

and yes, i did expect retaliation from 1up. But from some1 who doesnt scream on forums how bad bashing is, and that no1 should attack smaller peps, especially not the bigger alliances.

i dont wanna read your scum again. Peps should know by now that u posted "guidelines" there whish u dont take serious for yourself.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 15:07   #80
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas
Launch wrong ONCE, and your attack is delayed a day oh the times

Not only that but sometimes you would launch and your fleet would be eta 8 for half a day, to then suddenly land within 2 hours as ticks were catching up:P
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 15:18   #81
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by genosse27
i think u may have forgot that the game is about score.
Complaining about being bashed however is entirely about value and not score

forest - apologies for doubting your intentions/integrity on this issue.
It seems clear now that its just someone flaming (childishly towards the end) for the sake of it
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 15:32   #82
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by genosse27
i think u may have forgot that the game is about score.
and about the roiding, nub u bite the fake ingal def congratz :P at least for one of your waves

and yes, i did expect retaliation from 1up. But from some1 who doesnt scream on forums how bad bashing is, and that no1 should attack smaller peps, especially not the bigger alliances.

i dont wanna read your scum again. Peps should know by now that u posted "guidelines" there whish u dont take serious for yourself.
Its about value, not score. Score is made up from xp etc. Value is how many ships you have.

I was complaining about 3 waves on a 200 roid target with STRUCTURE KILLERS, in a non-war situation.

Me attacking you was a solo retal with NO structure killers.

And falling for fake def? Nothing I can do about that, only an idiot would land an attack hoping def is fake, unless they know information to suggest otherwise.

Scum? Heh. You clearly know nothing about me, and I wont waste my time speaking with you again. See you on the battlefield, we will surely meet a lot over the coming days.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 15:49   #83
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Sorry, forest is just about the only one in range to retal, and if you send SK's at a scan planet you have to expect a retal.......
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 16:26   #84
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by genosse27
i think u may have forgot that the game is about score.
and about the roiding, nub u bite the fake ingal def congratz :P at least for one of your waves
Oh shut the **** up and grow up.

And the game is about gaining score by gaining roids or ships but you saying if a 400k value player with over 8m score is a n00b basher if he attacks someone with 2m value but only 3m score?
Stop being an idiot ffs.

oh and Yes there has been someone with only 400k value with over 5m score before you start gobbing off, just look at round 12 top 100.
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Unread 14 Sep 2005, 00:33   #85
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Tbh i am watching all these discussions about (new) players leaving the game because of getting bashed with a raised eyebrow for a while and i find them esp. funny if a "high-ranked"/respected person of a rather powerful alliance starts one.

This problem isnt exclusive to PA - it also arised in a PA clone i was heavily involved in. It took a while before it was apparent that indeed it had a negative effect to the community and the alliances realised that also _their_ playground would be destroyed if the community shrinks more and more.

In PA round over round it results in suggestions for changes to the game mechanics/rules to lessen the problem but since rules can be bend and overcome, the problem re-appears round after round. Also IMHO the more rules you have to limit actions, the less fun a game becomes. On the clone where it happened, the admin said if it gets unfun for the average players, it becomes unfun for him to run the game so he will just scrap it and his Mod didnt feel like running after those cases each day either. So we as players had to find a solution.

HCs from the most powerful alliances got together and agreed to a set of rules which should be enforced. We talked for hours to agree to a few base rules and the alliances who "signed" them agreed to enforce them - the main rules where to protect single/unallied players from getting bashed out of the game. There was a IRC channel where players could join and complain if they thought anybody broke the rules.The HCs would check if it is one of their members or somebody else who broke the rules and the case had to be decided about in 24 hours. At that point the bashed player would get some kind of compensation either from the planet/group which bashed him, or from the alliances.

If the bashers refused to compensate and refused to follow the rules against bashing, the alliances would themselves bash them out of the game. Since everybody had to follow the rules - and personally we repeatedly told our alliance members to not break them - it went rather smoothly. Most of the times the rules where broken, the offender just didnt know they existed but after careful explanations agreed that they made sense, compensated his target somehow and followed the rules from then on. Rarely a player didnt agree by them and indeed was bashed - the worst we had was a group of PA players who came to the clone and openly disregarded the rules. They where bashed constantly for 2 or 3 days and left the game.

The rules didnt regulate any attacks on alliance members - they just protected solo players. It worked so well that i know a few alliance members went to play solo again since finally they could have a fair chance again without having to join a alliance. Alliances had to make sure they dont bash solo players unintentionally which could be a problem with faulty intelligence in the beginning of a round. At the end of a round, there where solo players among the top-10 and obviously that made some alliances want to roid them to win the round

Yes it was a lot unfunny work and "bureaucracy" - yes players tried to exploit it to get the alliances to bash somebody they disliked - yes some alliance HCs later tried to make new rules which would favor their alliances playstyle and harm others - yes it meant that in worst case you had to fire a player of your own alliance (thats why we took great care to make sure our members knew all the rules and knew that we meant it seriously to follow them). Overall it was well worth the effort - the Mod&admin where following the process during the beginning and the whole game environment got a lot better - as a result of that the player numbers stopped dropping and increased again as older players heard about it.

I know at least once there was a try to organise something like that in PA but from what i heard and saw it wasnt really something the big alliances cared about and it was more used as a scapegoat to keep things running as usual.

With a bit of work i assume the top 2 alliances could pull something like that off and for the top-3 alliances it would likely be a piece of cake to do together, but i think there is still much more talk then real will among the PA alliances to act. Im not playing anymore since Rd 9.5 so i am certainly out of the loop with the current alliance politics but from my experience among HC/officers in PA the real goal was to make their alliance members as big as possible and win a round no matter what result it had on the rest of the community.

Anyway - maybe you understand a little bit why i look at threads like this which appear each round and sometimes result in rule changes with a raised eyebrow and a sarcastic smile - if it was a matter really important to you, you could just organise something to stop the problem yourself without trying to change the games rules.

ps : excuse me if its a bit of a "unstructured rambling" but it is a bit late and already took me too long to write this for a game i dont play anymore :/
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Unread 18 Sep 2005, 15:16   #86
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Talking Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

HAHAHHAHHAHHAHa
justice

forest is somewhat of a unofficial multihunter in the game
he looks for people he thinks are multi (based on there actions)
and then when his fine since of things judges them to be a multi he gets people to wave them to death
making them quit

in the past he asked multihunters to close them but usualy they are on 2 diferent sides of the world and just not cheating
but forest fine sence of things knows best right

now the git is @ the other end of the stick
look who is complaining!!!

brilliant
thanks for the laugh
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Unread 18 Sep 2005, 19:18   #87
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by xontas
HAHAHHAHHAHHAHa
justice

forest is somewhat of a unofficial multihunter in the game
he looks for people he thinks are multi (based on there actions)
and then when his fine since of things judges them to be a multi he gets people to wave them to death
making them quit

in the past he asked multihunters to close them but usualy they are on 2 diferent sides of the world and just not cheating
but forest fine sence of things knows best right

now the git is @ the other end of the stick
look who is complaining!!!

brilliant
thanks for the laugh
/me watches a tumbleweed go by

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Unread 18 Sep 2005, 19:44   #88
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

?
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Unread 19 Sep 2005, 19:40   #89
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

I got like 350 Galleons.

Why?

Because I am sick and tired of getting free roids.

I send em to force the players to get def, so that I can steal some nice ships.

Also, I dont always send em, as I got 100 distores, I leave them at home if I attack a planet which I am not at war with, but they dont know this so get def anyways.

So struct killers r idd usefull.

Great to drain defence.
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Unread 20 Sep 2005, 09:44   #90
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

You could teach the nubs in your training alliance that struc killers are a waste of resources since u can't use em for deffing mates....

Or teach them how bashing = bad for the continuity of your roidfarms...
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Unread 20 Sep 2005, 16:29   #91
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by xontas
HAHAHHAHHAHHAHa
justice

forest is somewhat of a unofficial multihunter in the game
he looks for people he thinks are multi (based on there actions)
and then when his fine since of things judges them to be a multi he gets people to wave them to death
making them quit

in the past he asked multihunters to close them but usualy they are on 2 diferent sides of the world and just not cheating
but forest fine sence of things knows best right

now the git is @ the other end of the stick
look who is complaining!!!

brilliant
thanks for the laugh
I just had to log on and reply to this.

I worked on hitting planets who I KNEW were cheating. These are planets that had admitted to me on irc that they were cheating/sharing/farming etc. Remember the logs? Remember you not being able to use em? Its hardly pa players fault if they wnat to act because the multihunting team was shit. Who ran that multihunting team anyway? Oh thats right, it was you.
I was trying for the good of the game.

Now, onto my complaining. If you actually read what I said, I wasn't complaining on my behalf, but on behlaf of smaller players, who are being bashed and quitting, because of the way gameplay encourages such bashing. I stated that people are leaving in droves. We have seen alliances collapse. I complained about structure killers, that are being used to simply bash players. I stand by that statement, even more than before, after an awful lot of hc in alliances have agreed with me. These are the players that count, the hc, and there members, not some ex-mh who never could play the game anyway.

For my parting gift to you I leave this sentiment:

No matter what I have done for this game, whether it has been successful, or failed, whether it was misguided or perfect, I have done for the good of the game. I have been here since the beginning, and have done what I could. Even before quitting today, I was involved in yet another scheme for which to help new players, and encourage people to stay.
Then I look at you. Whilst in mh team you were consistently pissing off all manner of players/alliances,w ith not only your decisions, but your shit way of giving them. Your arrogance astaounds everyone, even me, and that takes some doing. You threatened to beat up players, whilst in your official multihunting position, on more than one occasion. And since you were removed from your position, you have been seen as a silly bitter little man. I will never forget the cheer that went up at i25 when we heard you had been sacked, and im sure it was copied everywhere around irc too.
The memory of you did some good though, cause it reminds every single one of us that there are some very sad individuals around.

Now, I won't be paying you any more attention, because I know that I am leaving pa(hopefully temporarily), with most people thinking I was good for the game, and worked damn hard for the good of it. I leave with many friends. Can you say the same?
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Unread 20 Sep 2005, 16:51   #92
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by xontas
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There's certain things we have to consider collectively about how best to lay the path for the PA community as a whole. It's arguable that Structure Killers make the game somewhat more tactically interesting for players, but that doesn't make up for any leaving players that they do affect adversely. On that note, I'm off the to pub.
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Unread 20 Oct 2005, 07:10   #93
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

well i want to put in here what i did in the last 2 weeks of round 14.

on the monday (14th day before the round ended) i was still trying to grow, attacking whatever planet i could that was bigger than me, finding none cause my fleet was fleetcaught twice the friday before, i had no other choice but to attack a smaller target, and doing so made me very uncomfortable, so much so , i sent a message to the player, apologizing for the coming attack, and wishing him good luck.

2 days later , i start to rebuild my cruiser fleet, as i had enough roid and ressource to do so... (at the time i had an average of 600 cr spread out amongst all classes aka cathaar). i was still unable to find a suitable target (high score/value but weak vs my fleet co/cr) and i refuse to attack smaller players.

on the friday, once i came back for seeing friends, i notice 3 incoming , 2 of them were player of value 2mil and 1,5 mil (i was 800k at that time in value) and one was 1 mil so within reasonable range .
the big player had sent to me 5k bs zik type, aim to steal whatever cr i had left, and since my bw were all killed the week before (3k of them in 2 ter attack) i was defenseless. then followed 3k cr cataar type, aim to steal whatever roid and co i had left. hopefully i had enough time to sent them into pre-launch.. but i had about 300 - 400 roid left at that time. so after the 3 wave.. i was left with about 100-120 roid and a fleet that had to hide..

the following monday (after i warn my galmate and alliancethat i d be out 2 days ) i came bacjk to my planet, only to see all my cr stolen, my co cut in half and no bw or scarab as they got destroyed in 3 attack! verification made with the report of battle showed me attackers were , again 2-3 time my size..

after which i decide to quit r14 for what was left..

now tell me that wont happen in r15?! of course it will, with or without the stealing ships in all race.. ppls will go for the easy and overwhelm planets! that s why, if i return in r15.. i ll be a non paying player.. as it s not worth money to be reduce to rubbles day in and day out...
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Unread 20 Oct 2005, 11:06   #94
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

well, if you're going away for two days, you anticipate no access and your goal was to keep your fleet / roids alive - vacation is there for a reason.

with regard to bashing, you might want to consider not playing Cathaar next time, they're an aggressive race, but consistently expect the most incoming of all the races.
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Unread 20 Oct 2005, 18:40   #95
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

i m sorry.. but emp does not make a race agressive as it dont destroy ships, it freeze them, making the attacker/defender lose nothing, it s a defensive weapon! xands are an agressive race, being cloak and fast! as per my race in r15.. i m thinking i may go either terran or zik.. though i love the cathaar emp (as it s like me in attitude .. i m not a destroyer but a preserver) although i say again, cathaar need to kill ships on their emp weapon too.. or they are condemn to be targeted as a ships-prize target again!
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 00:33   #96
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

An aggressive race is one good at attacking. Cathaar are better at attacking than defending. Not a lot else to it really...
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 02:35   #97
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

all race got aggresive traits, it s just a matter of numbers. if you out numbers your opponent defense , you win the battle. if you dont, you pull back. being cathaar or xan dont make a race more agressive. :-)
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Unread 21 Oct 2005, 16:53   #98
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

It does though. EMP neutralises a lot more of a target's defence than killing does. Just temporarily of course. But on the defensive, EMP can easily be outmaneuvred with a little bit of forethought (that means, sending lots of ships).
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Unread 24 Oct 2005, 00:02   #99
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Its the smaller alliances such as f-crew (im using them as an example as they are one of the so-called champions of the smaller player), that are actually driving the new players away, and they are doing less for the game than the big alliances.

So, based on the facts above, please discuss....

1) Do you like structure killers
2) Should the bash limit by higher
3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something
Forest


having been a bc for f-crew, i would like to say it s not custumary for our alliance to go for weak players and we dont encourage this at all.. i would also point out that i . personally got , like you alot of incoming from players that are 2.5 time my value and i resent it as much as you if not more. i actually sent a mail to a player, apologizing for the coming attack i was making , cause i thought i was breaking the spirit of the game, which was to attack equal or higher players.

do i like structure killers.. no they are not any use there s covert op that can do just the same..
should the bash limit be higher definitely, i d put a hard limit at 50% and a progeresive once from 70% to 50% with penalty on xp and score the lower you go for your attack (ie: if you hit 70% you get no penalty, if you hit lower up tp 60% you get penalize xp till it reach 0 xp at 60%, if you hit under 60% you get score penalty as well
should we limit the amount of incoming on a small planet.. i would say , it depend vs who attack, if you get for 1 mil guys hitting a 400k guy , definately.. cause that guy wont survive a week at that rate.. if it s guy as big or lower attack, i d say no.. as he should (with his galmate and alliance) able to defend himself..
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