The 9/11 Pentagon Conspiracy Flash.

[Sunday8pm]

I'm pretty sure at one point of the year we have all been linked to this

My question is, I remember this being duly debunked then the subject of ridicule amongst many internet communities... I don't know if it was dicussed here but I'm dying to know again the things this flash was debunked on or your opinions on it.

I ask this really because it seems one of my roommates and his community of internet friends have just happened upon it and seem enthralled by it's glitz and taking in by the possible bullshit of it all and are dying to know exactly in what ways is it flawed worse than a Michael Moore argument piece int he middle of a relatively decent documentary.

[Dante Hicks]

Most of this seems to be based on incredulity, which is often a sign of ropey arguments. It's like the Creationist "well common sense tells us that the eye could not have evolved by 'chance' therefore evolution didn't happen!".

Most of the 'evidence' given seems to concern common sense interpretations of what a 757 should sound like (or the impact should sound look like, etc). But how many people have heard a large plan fly that low and that fast? I've seen many plans take-off / land but they've always slowed down (or been going much slower). I can't even imagine what it would be like at that speed (i.e. 500mph). The same goes for wreckage. I suspect in most crashes the pilots are doing their best to either slow the plane down or not hit a solid object straight on. That wasn't the case here.

If an object that heavy and that fast hit a concrete wall straight on, maybe it would punch a "neat hole" in the wall, I don't know do I? I'm sure there are people who are experts on this sort of impact, why not get their analysed evidence rather than just leaving it to the viewers (flawed) common sense assumptions?

The issue with the video-tapes is entirely unsurprising. If you had a video tape of someone being murdered the Feds would confiscate it almost immediately and it's possible they wouldn't release it (unless they had good reason to, e.g. appeal for witnesses).

Finally, let's say it was a missile / small plane. What of it? Why? Who? There's no credible reason why the US would want to hit the Pentagon - why bother? The Twin-Towers was clearly enough to provoke outrage and outside the military I doubt many people cared too much about the Pentagon being hit. It's a military installation after all and people understand that as such can be attacked.

All I see is a bunch of flawed assumptions, quotes that could be taken out of context (or false) for all I know and some pretty basic innuendo. I remain unconvinced to put it mildly.

[Sunday8pm]

So do I, but I'm convinced that there has been some official debunking of the arguments of the impact of the crash, you know people pointing out thanks to physics and knowledge of aviation and other sciences that it was extremely credible for the destruction to have happened like that.

[LHC]

Well it wasn't an american missile because they never hit their target!

[xtrasyn]

Anyone with half a nose can smell something fishy about it. If proof will come out (WICH IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN) it will be long after your grandchildren are dead.

The only clear and visible truth is the fact that dubya won the elections again wich proves we´re not dealing with children here and also it shows that whoever runs the dictatorship in the states has learned a lot since they had to wipe out their Kennedy experiment.

[Sunday8pm]

Tbh I want you filthy democrats to start another freaking civil war, it's obvious that the rednecks(republicans) are outbreeding you these days and the only way to retain the vote is through sustained casualties of the republican forces.

[Summanus]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Tbh I want you filthy democrats to start another freaking civil war, it's obvious that the rednecks(republicans) are outbreeding you these days and the only way to retain the vote is through sustained casualties of the republican forces.

In 50 years there will be more blacks than whites

Michael Moore told me

[Sunday8pm]

Cause all blacks will obviously vote democrats...

Alan Keyes anyone?

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Cause all blacks will obviously vote democrats...

Alan Keyes anyone?

Duno who that is, couldn't you just have said Colin Powell?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Stew

Duno who that is, couldn't you just have said Colin Powell?

The Republicans put him up as a bit of a token black candidate against Barack Obama (perhaps the only good news for the Democrats in this election) a Kenyan/Indonesian/Hawaiian for a seat on the senate.

He got trounced.

[Sunday8pm]

Anyway this is derailing and not bringing me an answer to this flash and if and how the whole thing was debunked.

[xtrasyn]

You´re asking me to prove the unprovable

[Sunday8pm]

No I'm insisting that I've already seen people thoroughly debunk this, even making sites debunking it but I can't remember why and I'd adore anyone who could uncover them.

[JonnyBGood]

Snopes innit

[Sunday8pm]

forgot about that site, have anything just as maniacal as the person who made that flash up your sleeve however?

[skiddy]

Haven't you watched the Trade Centre video's properly? You can clearly see the second aircraft is far too small to be the type claimed, you can clearly see the missiles being fired from its wings to make a bigger impact hole and you can clearly see far too many fat middle aged me with **** all to do and no girlfriend because they're hairy and sweaty and smell and no time to do anything but think of shitty little conspiracy theories whilst browsing the internet and living out their alter-ego's on some programming or hacking related message board.

So, now we've established all that we can go straight to the point.

DM - Give us the story first hand.

[Ninja_spammer]

Shortly after, maybe before 11/9 I saw a documentary show about the safety of british nuclear reactors and one of the tests they showed was that of an aircraft impact. They took a hawk trainer jet, attached some boosters (to get it up to max speed in a confined space) and fired it straight into a steel reinforced conrete block, the block got kinda ****ed up but there was bugger all left of that training jet. What wreckage there was left was fist sized stuff.

A hawk jet is about 12-15 tons and it didn't penetrate the block and I imagine its a little more 'impact resistant' than a 747.

I think the whole thing is suspicious but no more than any strike on a military complex...they aint gonna tell you exactly how it was done or how the damage was maximised. that would be silly.

[Sandsnake]

One of our clients watched the plane hit the pentagon. It happened. He was working on the roof of a building right across the river when it happened, so he got a pretty good view.

The flash was pretty well put together though.

[Marilyn Manson]

There is no conspiracy, merely fat people with too much time on their hands.

[Vaio]

I can't be the only one that saw that video footage of the 2nd aircraft hitting the tower from street level looking up. It looked like the aircraft just disappeared into the building just before the explosion

~Vaio~

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by LHC

Well it wasn't an american missile because they never hit their target!

It was aiming for the White House.

[QazokRouge5]

I'm a commercially rated pilot working on my instrument rating and multi-engine rating. What most people don't know is that the planes computer and electrical systems are coded so that if the pilot were say "Let's have some fun" and he jerks the stick and lets say goes into a barrel roll with a 747 Jet, the computer essentially kicks in and says "No we're not." This applies for steep turns, and steep dives and climbs. (Steep being defined as greater than a 45-55 degree bank.) So clearly, there are some questions that need to be answered. Because if you jerk the stick into a turn like shown on the twin tower video, then the computer is not doing its job. And for the computer to not do its job on not one but four planes... I would say is slightly more than a coincidence. (not to mention the high speeds the plane was travelling at.) It's extremely difficult to hit a specific mark with a plane. It's not just "point and drive" as most people think. Just my 2 cents.

[Sunday8pm]

Thanks for coming through once again guys, I know I have a love-hate relationship with this forum but threads like these and the knowledge of area's I'm not read up in that people are willing to provide really make my day.

[KoeN]

o-l-d.

oh and having a discussion about it is a waste of time.

[Boogster]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

It's extremely difficult to hit a specific mark with a plane. It's not just "point and drive" as most people think. Just my 2 cents.

Obviously, I know nothing about the technicalities of flying a plane, but wouldn't it be extremely diffiicult to land a plane if you cannot hit a 'specific mark'?

[QazokRouge5]

Originally Posted by Boogster

Obviously, I know nothing about the technicalities of flying a plane, but wouldn't it be extremely diffiicult to land a plane if you cannot hit a 'specific mark'?

Allow me to clarify... It is extremely difficult to hit an elevated (i.e. - a building) mark with an airplane. There are so many factors involved that it would take ages to list. I dontthinkpeople actually realize how big a 747 jet is. It's not a Cessna 152... which happens to be the size of a gum package. It's massive. They dont just turn 90 degrees when you turn the ailerons and the rudder. Its takes damn near a 15 mile turn space to makea 180 ina 747.

[Sandsnake]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

Allow me to clarify... It is extremely difficult to hit an elevated (i.e. - a building) mark with an airplane. There are so many factors involved that it would take ages to list. I dontthinkpeople actually realize how big a 747 jet is. It's not a Cessna 152... which happens to be the size of a gum package. It's massive. They dont just turn 90 degrees when you turn the ailerons and the rudder. Its takes damn near a 15 mile turn space to makea 180 ina 747.

Last I checked, the computer can be turned off.

Though they did say they beleive the target was initially the white house, but the plane was unable to maneuver into position so took the pentagon instead.

[Nondescript Human]

Yeah I assumed you could switch the computer off/override it.

[arbondigo]

Had Bush decided to go back to the White House after reading those books to kiddies by then?

[QazokRouge5]

Originally Posted by arbondigo

Had Bush decided to go back to the White House after reading those books to kiddies by then?

Hm. there's agood point... Is it me or does it seem funny that Bush was out of the White House doing a "Good Deed" by reading to little kiddies? Anyone following my train of thought?

[Boogster]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

Hm. there's agood point... Is it me or does it seem funny that Bush was out of the White House doing a "Good Deed" by reading to little kiddies? Anyone following my train of thought?

No. And furthermore, does anyone else find the blame levelled at Bush for continuing to read to the children once the news had been given to him incomprehensible? Was he supposed to don his superman pants and save people from the burning towers, or something?

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

Hm. there's agood point... Is it me or does it seem funny that Bush was out of the White House doing a "Good Deed" by reading to little kiddies? Anyone following my train of thought?

It's you. Prior to 9/11, Bush spent about 40% of his days outside Washington. A common complaint was that Bush wasn't spending enough time in Washington.

[QazokRouge5]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

It's you. Prior to 9/11, Bush spent about 40% of his days outside Washington. A common complaint was that Bush wasn't spending enough time in Washington.

Perhaps if you peoplewould read then you would realize that I was stating a question. The tendancy for the "I'm right you're wrong" attitude in this forum is amazing.

[Dante Hicks]

You asked a question, he supplied an answer. I don't see the problem tbh.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Boogster

And furthermore, does anyone else find the blame levelled at Bush for continuing to read to the children once the news had been given to him incomprehensible?

No. Tbh, I find it faintly absurd that he should have continued in the reading whilst America was in the throes of it's biggest ever terrorist incident, really.

He is the CiC as well as the head of the executive, after all. Generally these sorts of people are expected to contribute in some fashion during such an event, and immediately after, with all speed.

Of course, there's the argument that he needed to keep up the apperance of normality - which to my mind can be the only possible argument in favour of him not concluding the thing there and then and departing - and all that, but really, who was giving a shit by that point?

Still, it's not a major issue, really.

[pyirt]

I liked the flash. Whoever did this has gone to alot of trouble. Nice peace of conspiracy... I take my hat of.