Closed by the law or by the mass??

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by Obfuscator
Perhaps you shouldn't assume a or b, and should assume instead that you are in-fact, better informed than the average PA-player. You claim to know an awful lot about the game and its status, and in the next breath claim that you don't take it at all seriously. Surely you can see the inconsistency here.

Its not always a inconsistancy between beeing well-informed, and taking things seriously.
fx, Im not that interested in computer hardware anymore. I hardly know anything about the new serial ATA, but Im still atleast somewhat up to date on other issues at the topic.

Vader: Love you too n00bie b0y

[cbk100]

Originally posted by lokken
Reading up on my contract law I'd say Perfection is probably correct, as players in general probably cant grasp what the rules exactly are, therefore need the rules staring them in the face them when you think of a 'reasonable player'. I expected more of them at the time, setting a higher standard for what a PA player would be expected to do.

I actually think the blanket clause might be able to apply though, if you can argue if it exists purely for the practical operation of the game (allowing deletion of cheats) rather than to put the consumer at a disadvantage. It's only ever really been used for that purpose, hence not really an unfair contract term. It wouldn't work here because the reasonable player wouldn't be able to work out what rule was what because they didn't set out the rules in a way that a reasonable PA player would understand.

I still support the deletion though, considering how experienced Rabba is and the need to keep the top 10 as clean as possible from breaking a rule that all experienced players should know.

I fully agree with you that those rules are a tough task to read for an avg PA player and I think its a bit not-professional by jolt, but well so it is.

Well lokken I MIGHT tend to agree with you that rabba should be deleted for his actions if I'm only to consider what I feal, but in this world there is only one thing that you can legaly be judged by and that is the law. If the law is weak you might very well not be judged by it and if the judge says its week it will most likely be changed so its not weak.
But in this case where the law is not even there it can't really be discussed weather you can be judged by it.

All I say is that one thing is the law and another is the perdonal feelings. How often haven't you seen a judge let a criminal go free just because there has been either procidure mistakes or because the laws aren't 100% as they ought to be. You know he made a mistake but you can't judge him.

And then again what if you could be judged by something just because the mass thinks its wrong and not because of the law?

It will be a total mess...

Where would Bush be today?

What about Tony Blair?

What about Anders Fogh? (Danish prime minister)

What about Bill Gates?

What about Michael Jackson?

What about most of the most popular ppl in the world?

its often the lost popular who also has the most ppl aggainst them and its often the ones who is aggainst them that is being heard... so just because its them who are heard, should we judge by what they say?

The only reason all of this caused such a mess is because its rabba. Had it been mister unknown form gal X:X then nothing would have happened. His ships might have been taken away from him but he would NEVER had been closed.

have you ever heard about rules changing depending on who the accused person is?

The HQ has been far too weak in their judgement so far this round and then suddenly they jump totaly to the other side and becomes far too hard... now they have set exact rules and now there is no doubt so now its time that we see a MUCH more strict line.

But remember that ONLY rules can judge rabba and since there is no doubt that the rules couldn't judge him (both among most players in PA and in HQ(at least Prince)) then he can't be judged

cbk

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by cbk100
snip

Stop complaining, get over it.

[oldtown]

Originally posted by lokken
No way, I wouldn't give a refund. He's an experienced player and he cheated and broke the rules. In terms of breaking the rules, I don't see any choice but deleting him. A majority of the players don't stand for people getting away with cheating. I certainly don't stand for it.

I wouldn't give him anything personally, it would only serve to promote cheating. Whether he chooses to play again is his decision.

I wouldnt either...just pointed out that only argument they may have from the user agreement is a refund not getting planet reinstated.

[cbk100]

Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
heh, I havent been taking this game even remotly serious since r4, and I dont have a planet this round, and I knew it was Illegal to ship farm. Should I assume a) that the people who didnt know this is complete idiots, or b) that they generally dont listen to the rules and cheat whatever the current rules are

sorry, I cant help to smile.

Or just assume they use a feature that is build into a race that steal... If I tried this game for the first time and read the user agreements... I would have absolutely NO reason to think that ship farming is illegal. Then why not take advantage of it? you could arrange it with some friends. they send some dems to you and you let them farm some roids from you as payment... I'm sure NOMATTER who you asked that has only read the user agreements and then begun to play the game would answer that I'm right, cause if not they can read rules which is actualy not that obvious (ofc. roid farming can be discussed but not ship farming) thinking with the brain of a total newbie.

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
Stop complaining, get over it.

when rabba is opened and PA HQ admits they made a mistake I will get fully over it... when justice comes to its right I'll be able to sit back and say: "at least they had the balls to admit they made a mistake" (it ofc has to be official instead of just Prince telling me that he admits its wrong.

I'm not exacly the kind of guy who gets over things just because it looks hopeless. If I know I'm right I fight for that right untill I get it... allready with PA HQ changing the rules they have unofficialy admited that I was right. Now we just need them to admit it officialy and live by it by opening rabba again.

cbk

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by cbk100
Or just assume they use a feature that is build into a race that steal... If I tried this game for the first time and read the user agreements... I would have absolutely NO reason to think that ship farming is illegal. Then why not take advantage of it? you could arrange it with some friends. they send some dems to you and you let them farm some roids from you as payment... I'm sure NOMATTER who you asked that has only read the user agreements and then begun to play the game would answer that I'm right, cause if not they can read rules which is actualy not that obvious (ofc. roid farming can be discussed but not ship farming) thinking with the brain of a total newbie.

cbk

That only matters if you considers Rabbagast a n00bie.

[DrNick]

Rabba, the no.1 player at the time was caught farming. Anything other than deletion would be an encouragement of farming.

btw pls don't go on about the law cos pa has rules. One rule states the creators can delete who ever they want. It is widely known that fleet farming is punished by the creators and I'm 100% sure rabba knew this. If he didn't then he's a fool and deserves deletion for cheating and being an ignorant moron.

[Auro]

Look guys, the deal is, that as this game is the property of the owning company, represented in this case by the creators, and at the same time, playing this game is a priviledge allowed under the discretion of the owner of the game, the owners, in this case represented by the Creators, have the right to terminate your priviledge of playing this game. Just like a movie theatre can kick you out or an airline can kick you off a plane. There is nothing about the deletion of any account that is unlawful. In fact, they don't even have to provide any reason for this deletion. So, even though it might seem arbitrary, and it might be unjustified, it's still legal, and because of the legality of it, contestation in this case would be unworthy at best, for an argument of this would be untenable.

[genosse27]

rabba had no net for the 1st 3 days...
so he isnt only ship farming, he also did account sharing.

[mens]

Originally posted by genosse27
rabba had no net for the 1st 3 days...
so he isnt only ship farming, he also did account sharing.

that's why he lived back home with his family the first week or somehitng until he got inet access in his flat again.

hint: don't write posts that make you look like an idiot.

(posts like yours are really not worth a reply, but hell..)

[N0VA]

Originally posted by Auro
Look guys, the deal is, that as this game is the property of the owning company, represented in this case by the creators, and at the same time, playing this game is a priviledge allowed under the discretion of the owner of the game, the owners, in this case represented by the Creators, have the right to terminate your priviledge of playing this game. Just like a movie theatre can kick you out or an airline can kick you off a plane. There is nothing about the deletion of any account that is unlawful. In fact, they don't even have to provide any reason for this deletion. So, even though it might seem arbitrary, and it might be unjustified, it's still legal, and because of the legality of it, contestation in this case would be unworthy at best, for an argument of this would be untenable.

Do all of you get together and decide who is going to repeat the irrelevant agrument of the week? If you look through this thread, you will see over and over again that we acknowledge Rabbagast can be deleted for whatever reason.

Just like it is wrong for PA crew to delete a person because they are black or asian or smoke cigarettes - it is wrong to delete Rabbagast for violation of a rule that was not properly expressed to the Planetarion Community. Even if 75% of the population was aware of the rule change, that is not adequate - PA crew has to take the appropriate steps to let everyone know. If 75% of the community did know, I would stake my reputation and my right testicle on the fact that Rabbagast did not know.

Now, I really hope that we don't see any more comments stating that Planetarion can delete people for whatever reason they see fit. As soon as that road is taken, their ability to create well reasoned and binding contracts will be called into question - and their ability to function as a business should come to an end as well.

[DarkAngel]

it wasnt in the "user agreement" we agreed to when we signed up, so it should remain legal this round - suddenely making it illegal by ammending the user agreement is not possible. as that isnt the agreement we all agreed to pre-round.

[cbk100]

Originally posted by Auro
Look guys, the deal is, that as this game is the property of the owning company, represented in this case by the creators, and at the same time, playing this game is a priviledge allowed under the discretion of the owner of the game, the owners, in this case represented by the Creators, have the right to terminate your priviledge of playing this game. Just like a movie theatre can kick you out or an airline can kick you off a plane. There is nothing about the deletion of any account that is unlawful. In fact, they don't even have to provide any reason for this deletion. So, even though it might seem arbitrary, and it might be unjustified, it's still legal, and because of the legality of it, contestation in this case would be unworthy at best, for an argument of this would be untenable.

Well I don't know how things work in UK, but now I have checked up on your little story here in Denmark. But well, first try to ask yourself: You walk into a cinema, pay your money and then they kick you out. Do you think that is legal when you think about it again?

I think not and if you do then check up your sources of info again cause I can tell you that at least in Denmark its not legal.

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by DarkAngel
it wasnt in the "user agreement" we agreed to when we signed up, so it should remain legal this round - suddenely making it illegal by ammending the user agreement is not possible. as that isnt the agreement we all agreed to pre-round.

Well, on this one I'm affraid I have to talk aggainst you. In fact they can change the rules, IF and ONLY IF they make ppl aware of it. To justify that they can make everyone aware of such a change in the mittle of a round is VERY doubtfull. We can try to ask ourself how they want to do it.

1. they can do it like they did and poste it in a CH log: The answer to if this is good enough should be clearly stated allready so lets not discuss that further.

2. They can post it in message of the day: They have a problem with this too since not all read "message of the day" and we can't be blamed for that cause it says NOWHERE that we have to do that and they can't demand us what to read and what not to read, but.... that leads us to #3

3. They can post it in the user agreements: The user agreememts they can demand us to read cause we have to accept it to play the game, BUT they can't demand us to read it in the mittle of the game and in that case we don't know about it and the rule has no effect.

What they could have should have done was to put it in the user agreements, b4 we signed up and if they had done that everyone would be aware of it.

cbk

[Parthos]

Originally posted by Dave
All the rules against so called 'Ship farming' are just stupid anyway.

They would have been worthwhile in round 2, when you could steal someones entire fleet without losing an entire ships, but as now you lose an equal ammount in resources, how is it farming. As the very definition most people give to farming is gaining something without any losses.

If it's so pointless, why do people still do it? Odd, ship farming must still give some kind of advantage to the farmer in spite all its negatives.

Originally posted by Dave
Besides, you find me one Zikonian player who doesn't ship farm. Rabba just had the bad luck of being #1, and as such more watched.

ROFL. The old "everybody does it" argument. Hey Dave, everyone's jumping off that cliff over there! Go follow!

Originally posted by Dave
And honestly, does anyone in PA HQ wonder why more and more experianced players keep leaving the game?

We don't leave the game because PA occasionally chooses to open their eyes and crack down on farming and other rulebreaking.

We leave the game because they so rarely bother to take care of cheats.

If I see more happy occurences like Rabba's closing, I might just play seriously again sometime.

Originally posted by cbk100
{Extremely long and boring twaddle of the likes we always see when someone has a lot of time on their hands; peppered with numerous references to psuedo-legal implications and maintaining that there has to be some loophole, somewhere, please, please, so I can cheat in peace}

1) Old: Claiming the user agreement is legally unsound.
2) Old: Claiming the players have no idea what the rules regarding farming are or aren't.

Please, everyone who posts drivel like the first post of this thread, get over youselves and your aspirations to be armchair lawyers. It's old, it's boring, and it's absolutely pointless.

If you worked as hard on your planet as you did on your efforts to legitimize cheating behind some pseudo-legal veil, it would be, well, astoundingly huge.

[cbk100]

Originally posted by Parthos


If you worked as hard on your planet as you did on your efforts to legitimize cheating behind some pseudo-legal veil, it would be, well, astoundingly huge.

Well, I am huge...

cbk

[Auro]

Originally posted by N0VA
Do all of you get together and decide who is going to repeat the irrelevant agrument of the week? If you look through this thread, you will see over and over again that we acknowledge Rabbagast can be deleted for whatever reason.

Just like it is wrong for PA crew to delete a person because they are black or asian or smoke cigarettes - it is wrong to delete Rabbagast for violation of a rule that was not properly expressed to the Planetarion Community. Even if 75% of the population was aware of the rule change, that is not adequate - PA crew has to take the appropriate steps to let everyone know. If 75% of the community did know, I would stake my reputation and my right testicle on the fact that Rabbagast did not know.

Now, I really hope that we don't see any more comments stating that Planetarion can delete people for whatever reason they see fit. As soon as that road is taken, their ability to create well reasoned and binding contracts will be called into question - and their ability to function as a business should come to an end as well.

The right of PA to delete all whom they wish only reaffirms the fact that all the arguments about the rights or wrong of this deletion is a null point. In case you haven't noticed, the world doesn't run on morals. They were under no legal obligation to give a reason for the closure. Even the fact that they've given a reason, albeit perhaps not a very good one, is a priviledge. In this case, the PA crew decided that ship farming gives the player a decidedly unfair advantage and it would be an abuse of an intended game function therefore a closure was warranted. Of course, who wouldn't have known that farming is an abuse of an intended game function?

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Auro
The right of PA to delete all whom they wish only reaffirms the fact that all the arguments about the rights or wrong of this deletion is a null point

Especially as he's now re-opened

[Devo]

Re-opening him is the worst decission made in a long time. Well, thats just my opinion. PA has the right to close the player for cheating and/or any other reason at their discression. I hope however that this event will put an end once and for all to the record of top 10 cheaters. It would be nice to have a round without a high level closure

[cbk100]

WEEEEE he is reopened... Seems like PA HQ also figured out that me and all the other who was aggainst the closure was right \o/

cbk

[Sjor]

just proofs if u sit high enough noone can reach you no matter how much BS u do

last round we were hacked and closed therefor and there were nothing we could do

So enjoy your private war than

[Sjor]

Originally posted by Sjor
just proofs if u sit high enough noone can reach you no matter how much BS u do

last round we were hacked and closed as mutliiers and there were nothing we could do

So enjoy your private war than

[Torjus]

Where is the moral guys