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12 Oct 2005, 04:10
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#1
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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The decline and fall of the British nation
While reading this news story I came across this
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Mr Blair said the system had to protect innocent people but protecting law abiding citizens had to come first, he said.
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This is probably one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard (read) a leader of a supposedly free country say. I don't think the abandonment of "innocent until proven guilty" is a particularly productive direction for any country to adopt :(
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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12 Oct 2005, 05:51
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#2
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IRC Lackey
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere in the dark and nasty regions...
Posts: 1,471
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Am I the only one who finds that sentence a little bit strange?
He has to protect innocent people, but he has to protect innocent people, irrespective of whether it's at the expense of innocent people?
I wonder how long it will be before we have a system remeniscent of the Soviet Union where people are taken away during the night and not seen for months on end because they are suspected of involvement in crimes against the state...
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-Mushroom.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
Last edited by Mushroom; 12 Oct 2005 at 06:17.
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12 Oct 2005, 07:48
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#3
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For Crowly <3
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 1,391
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Tony Blair = twat
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[14:53:26] * Keiz`afk has joined #support
[14:53:36] <Keiz`afk> THE SMUDGE CHEERLEADING TEAM HAS ARRIVED
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12 Oct 2005, 08:53
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#4
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
Am I the only one who finds that sentence a little bit strange?
He has to protect innocent people, but he has to protect innocent people, irrespective of whether it's at the expense of innocent people?
I wonder how long it will be before we have a system remeniscent of the Soviet Union where people are taken away during the night and not seen for months on end because they are suspected of involvement in crimes against the state...
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That has kind of happened already.
I wrote this in another thread: http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...05&postcount=6
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Originally Posted by Ste
A friend of my mum was a mentor to a teenage refugee in Nottingham, he was given housing and employment on the condition that he met with his mentor once a week.
One day the police picked him up randomly and took him from Nottingham to somewhere like Doncaster and interviewed him for 48 hours. He wasn't able to contact anyone in that time and so lost his job, missed his mentor meeting so lost his home and when he was released without charge he wasn't taken back to Nottingham so he was on the street in an unfamiliar town without any money.
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12 Oct 2005, 09:23
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
hasn't this always happened in varying degrees though? miscarriages of justice and all that?
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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12 Oct 2005, 09:29
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#6
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Innocent people and law abiding citizens are the same aren't they?
Bye magna carta, the truth is we never loved you.
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12 Oct 2005, 14:51
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#7
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I am an idiot
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,145
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
The british nation went into decline when some bright spark decided we should be 'multicultural'. If only there had been a refurendum on it 
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12 Oct 2005, 15:13
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#8
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
We should have also had an referendum on whether the angles and saxons should have mixed.
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12 Oct 2005, 15:17
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#9
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by CrashTester
The british nation went into decline when some bright spark decided we should be 'multicultural'. If only there had been a refurendum on it |
There was.
It was called World War 2.
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12 Oct 2005, 16:13
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#10
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
It's alright ... It's alright ... Nick Phillips will protect us I promise
It's just Tony getting overly excited and talking to the police far too much. The police have been arguing for the last 40 years that what they need inorder to fight crime is to be able to lock up anyone they want for as long as they want and that the need to prove crimes is an uncessary 'beauraucratic burden'! AND THAT THEY NEED TO ALL CARRY GUNS
Don't fret every other PM except Tony has laughed at them. Tony's just feeling a bit lonely at the moment, little bit paranoid wants to have a few friends and the police are just taking advantage of a vulnerable man and making him say silly things.
Don't worry! the lawyers will protect you, that's actually what we do in this country. Not like the yankee ones, always after money, we'll protect you. Nick and I promise!
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hi
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12 Oct 2005, 16:16
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#11
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Nick Phillips looks like the Demon Headmaster.
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12 Oct 2005, 17:06
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#12
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I am an idiot
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,145
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
There was.
It was called World War 2.
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Really? Well my grandads went to fight for everything they had built up in england and to continue the british way of life, not to open the floodgates to jonny foreigner.
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12 Oct 2005, 17:14
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#13
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by CrashTester
Really? Well my grandads went to fight for everything they had built up in england and to continue the british way of life, not to open the floodgates to jonny foreigner.
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you will find that they were fighting for the Empire.
now if you'd like to suggest that the Empire wasn't multicultural go ahead
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hi
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12 Oct 2005, 17:15
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#14
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by CrashTester
Really? Well my grandads went to fight for everything they had built up in england and to continue the british way of life, not to open the floodgates to jonny foreigner.
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What exactly do you think the british way of life involves? Shooting darkies?
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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12 Oct 2005, 17:35
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#15
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by CrashTester
Really?
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Yep.
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12 Oct 2005, 18:52
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#16
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Back from timeout.
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 901
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Is this the appropriate place for an "I told you so?"
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
You'll have to prise my penis from my cold, dead hand!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yahwe
Gay ducks only do it because it impresses their peers.
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12 Oct 2005, 19:01
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#17
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Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What exactly do you think the british way of life involves? Shooting darkies?
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The British Way of Life continues to thrive
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
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12 Oct 2005, 19:10
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#18
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WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Listen, you people seem to forget you've already had time where you could lock up anyone you wanted, without warning, without trial and for an indefinate period of time within the UK. Internmant without trial in Northern Ireland.
I mean, if you've done it already to the paddys, and not too long ago, why the hell shouldn't you be let do it to the darkies!?
And I mean, you've already shot dead unarmed people you've suspected of being terrorists, why the hell not now?!
There's precident. **** it, get Maggie back. She'll sort em all out.
Liberties...hah...they never got in your way before, why should they now?!
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
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12 Oct 2005, 23:25
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#19
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by Kurashima
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Fixed
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12 Oct 2005, 23:53
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#20
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
IncubusGod owning JBG w/crew badly 
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<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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13 Oct 2005, 00:02
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#21
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
IncubusGod owning JBG w/crew badly |
for ****s sake.
1)jonny is irish, he knows this and chose to ignore it for good reason; namely that
2)martial law and civic law are entirely different entities and a flaw in one is not a valid criticism of the equivalent in the other;
3)failures of intelligence, regardless of how great the ****up or its consequences, are not the same thing as introducing arbitrary detention into statute;
4)**** off Zhukov, you really don't know anything about anything, and it hurts my eyes to read your dribblings.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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13 Oct 2005, 01:02
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#22
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Just call me sir.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 358
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
If you haven't read the terrorism act yet we basically are under martial law until it's sunset clause takes effect; reference that eighty year old being arrested using it (albeit briefly) during the labour conference.
The divergence of what is right from what is legal has been going on for much longer than the current government, it's part of how democracy works. Who was the last prime minister we had who cared for anything other than staying in power?
Which of these three options is better?
Legally moving suspects into detention and locking up some innocent people.
Having people roaming around who have committed or have intentions to commit murder but not enough evidence exists at that time to convict.
Illegally using the special forces to assassinate suspects.
Are your 1) and 4) strictly speaking points?
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I am me, nothing more, sometimes a lot less.
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13 Oct 2005, 01:11
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#23
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by Phang
for ****s sake.
1)jonny is irish, he knows this and chose to ignore it for good reason; namely that
2)martial law and civic law are entirely different entities and a flaw in one is not a valid criticism of the equivalent in the other;
3)failures of intelligence, regardless of how great the ****up or its consequences, are not the same thing as introducing arbitrary detention into statute;
4)**** off Zhukov, you really don't know anything about anything, and it hurts my eyes to read your dribblings.
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Putting people behind jail for years without any trial, or choosing to put them behind bars becouse they belong to a certain group in society... I would say that is relatable to the british version of the patriot act.
How interesting is that you dont attack IncubusGod.
And for the record, you suck more than the footie team you support. 
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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13 Oct 2005, 01:18
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#24
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I would say that is relatable to the british version of the patriot act.
How interesting is that you dont attack IncubusGod.
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IncubusGod wasn't typing bollocks.
You will notice (even if i have to beat it into you [EDIT] which i should probably confess i would enjoy doing) that people on these forums are judged by what they type not by what they are.
IncubusGod typed some satarical comments which I personally accept as valid criticism of both the present British government and the government under Baroness Thatcher. Personally I approve of neither government and disagree with their policies.
You on the other hand typed utter crap.
You will (given time i hope) realise the difference between you and incubusgod.
And may i state for the record that i do not blame Norway for you.
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hi
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13 Oct 2005, 01:28
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#25
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by Yahwe
IncubusGod typed some satarical comments which I personally accept as valid criticism of both the present British government and the government under Baroness Thatcher. Personally I approve of neither government and disagree with their policies.
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She was not prime minster before 1979. I thought better off you Yahwe
The Internment was before her time as prime minister.
Yes, and I was refering to those comments. I know very well what they applied. Perhaps wanted to annoy some of my opponents from the NI-debate some time ago?
Phang "lost it", but thats all the more funny.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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13 Oct 2005, 01:36
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#26
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Yes, and I was refering to those comments. I know very well what they applied.
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So?
Who cares what you comprehend?
We care what you type!
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Perhaps wanted to annoy some of my opponents from the NI-debate some time ago?
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'opponents' you are sounding as insane as Sigrid.
This is an internet forum. Half of the nicknames here could be the same person with lots of accounts. stop being so derranged.
you don't have 'enemies' you don't have 'friends' all you have is what you type.
when you type shit it is shit
AND!!!! you typed shit
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Phang "lost it", but thats all the more funny.
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Phang pointed out that you typed shit and emphasised his anger at those who type shit.
I was tempted to just quote you and type "spastic"
at least Phang dignified what you typed with more than a one word response. you should be grateful to Phang. I don't think that your words were worth half the energy he wasted on you.
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hi
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13 Oct 2005, 01:43
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#27
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Still worked up becouse Sigrid cought your double standards are we?
Poor little Yahwe. Didnt they teach you how to hide your feelings? Dont TSM me now
Did they infact teach you anything at Oxford?
Im starting to wonder.
Margareth Thatcher became prime minister in 1979, for your information.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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13 Oct 2005, 02:00
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#28
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Just call me sir.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 358
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Reading upwards I'd have to disagree with Yahwe - so far Zhukov's entire material contribution after removing insults has been mentioning the year 1979... twice. Therefore it would be accurate to state that he "hasn't typed shit."
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I am me, nothing more, sometimes a lot less.
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13 Oct 2005, 09:42
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#29
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Listen, you people seem to forget you've already had time where you could lock up anyone you wanted, without warning, without trial and for an indefinate period of time within the UK. Internmant without trial in Northern Ireland.
I mean, if you've done it already to the paddys, and not too long ago, why the hell shouldn't you be let do it to the darkies!?
And I mean, you've already shot dead unarmed people you've suspected of being terrorists, why the hell not now?!
There's precident. **** it, get Maggie back. She'll sort em all out.
Liberties...hah...they never got in your way before, why should they now?!
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Wait, wasn't that abandoned in like 1975 when everyone was like "oh shit sorry, we were wrong, most of you weren't in the IRA"? Actually rereading your post it sounds like you're aware this only happened thirty plus years ago. As such seeing as we're justifying doing shit things on the grounds that we've done them before I'd like to call anyone who opposes the reintroduction of slavery an idiot on the grounds that the British government used to allow slavery once, and not too long ago.
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
IncubusGod owning JBG w/crew badly |
I'm going to have to ask you to never again use a phrase like this for my own mental and emotional health.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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13 Oct 2005, 16:17
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#30
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Wait, wasn't that abandoned in like 1975 when everyone was like "oh shit sorry, we were wrong, most of you weren't in the IRA"?
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I'm so sorry to be such a lawyer and wade in but I am aware that the idiot Zhukov kept prattling on about 1979 and Maggie's reign in a way that insinuated that detention without trial only happened before 1979.
The Idiot Zhukov suggested this in order to contradict what I had said.
I had hoped that the rest of you would have the sense to assume that I was correct and to ignore the prattling repition of The Idiot Zhukov: as i ignored him
It appears that you have not.
So for the education of you all may I remind you of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 1989 section 14. which allows for detention without trial of suspected terrorist.
And for the benefit of The Idiot Zhukov may I remind you that 1989 comes after 1979!
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hi
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13 Oct 2005, 16:21
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#31
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
It was the interment in NI that ended before 1979, Yahwe. Did you really pass oxford?
And come on, dont TSM us know. You are starting to loose it (more than usual).
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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13 Oct 2005, 19:49
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#32
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WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Why on earth is 1979 and Maggies appointment then the cornerstone of your 'putdown' of Yahwe, Zhukov? Why is it even an issue. Was never mentioned before.
I never claimed Maggie was the one to instigate Intermant or to oversee it. I included Maggie dearest in my (as Yahwe's pointed out) satirical little jibe as she oversaw some very questionable policies in the area of terrorism and civil liberties. Including the whole 'Death On The Rock' incident where 3 unarmed IRA members were assassinated by the SAS.
Plus that whole thing of the SAS excecuting two fo the perpertrators of the Iranian Embassy Siege inside after the raid by capturing them, disarming them, putting them against the wall and shooting them...
Then it's medals all round.
It was more a comment on the current governments apparent slip back to the bad ol days of right wing politics and the rule of law being iron clad and blunt. They criticised and hated Thatcher for the same policies they are starting to introduce.
And my post was not trying to shoot down Johnny in any way. Do I have to include [Sarcasm] or [Satire] tags for you in future Zhukov?
By the way, if you could include translations of your posts into English, it would be appreciated also. I haven't a clue what you're on about half the time.
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And come on, dont TSM us know
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I mean, what the **** does that mean exactly?
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I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
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13 Oct 2005, 22:46
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#33
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by Yahwe
I'm so sorry to be such a lawyer and wade in but I am aware that the idiot Zhukov kept prattling on about 1979 and Maggie's reign in a way that insinuated that detention without trial only happened before 1979.
The Idiot Zhukov suggested this in order to contradict what I had said.
I had hoped that the rest of you would have the sense to assume that I was correct and to ignore the prattling repition of The Idiot Zhukov: as i ignored him
It appears that you have not.
So for the education of you all may I remind you of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 1989 section 14. which allows for detention without trial of suspected terrorist.
And for the benefit of The Idiot Zhukov may I remind you that 1989 comes after 1979!
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Okay fair enough, I don't think I was aware of that, or if I was I had forgotten about it and consigned it to the trash heap of intellectual refuse that is the back left bit of my brain. However we're all missing my real point that it's utterly reprehensible for a leader of a supposedly free country to say that the first concern of a legal system should not be to protect the innocent. How far have we sunk if politicians feel comfortable coming out and actually saying that?
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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13 Oct 2005, 23:17
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#34
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Dazed and Confused
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: lost
Posts: 550
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
Ben Bradshaw just said on question time that the most important civil liberty is the right to life.
He then used that as a broad justification for the new anti-terrorism laws.
The entire audience clapped. You really can't win, it's infallible logic.
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14 Oct 2005, 00:15
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#35
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by IncubusGod
And my post was not trying to shoot down Johnny in any way. Do I have to include [Sarcasm] or [Satire] tags for you in future Zhukov?
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No. But it seems I have too
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I mean, what the **** does that mean exactly?
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Read the jeans-thread in the Clownshoe Corner.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
Last edited by G.K Zhukov; 14 Oct 2005 at 00:24.
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14 Oct 2005, 00:27
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#36
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
However we're all missing my real point that it's utterly reprehensible for a leader of a supposedly free country to say that the first concern of a legal system should not be to protect the innocent. How far have we sunk if politicians feel comfortable coming out and actually saying that?
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Don't worry!!! I promised you Lord Phillips LCJ will stop all this silliness
and no one is missing it.
Professor J. Spencer who holds the chair at cambridge in criminal law just sent a faculty wide e mail calling for action 
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hi
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14 Oct 2005, 09:25
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#37
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WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
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Re: The decline and fall of the British nation
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Read the jeans-thread in the Clownshoe Corner.
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I'm scared to venture anywhere near there for the sake of my sanity...
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I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
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