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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 14:11   #1
Kaiba
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Startup suggestion

Dont know if this is in the right place (mz feel free to move it if not) but im wondering if having a an alert ingame, pretick start, telling you that you have not formed a government or assigned your population or inted any roids and so on might help newer players more than the current quest system which starts unexpanded on overview. It could pop up like incommings do on the overveiw screen and would help new players make sure they have done the fundementals that can ruin your round if not done (like pop and gov)

It could be a turnoffable function in preferences (or passport if its every introduced) but should be on for a new signup.


I just think at the moment the although the quest system has its benefits you still have to access/start it for it to be useful - if this was an auto features it would help new players

Thoughts?
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 14:16   #2
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Re: Startup suggestion

Good idea.

Maybe when you sign up, until we have passports, you could hit a checkbox with 'I want hints on or off'. So those who know what they are doing and for instance playing a 0-value cov-op planet don't get annoyed by the messages.

You could combine this with a few 'standard' strategies, which I think are also in the strategy forum already. F.I. last round if people would've gotten the following tactic, they would've gotten less incs as a random planet (I think):

Code:
'Go terran, init 300 roids, build DE only, everytime you get roided under 300 roids, init back up, attack with other people on cath planets. Build lots of refineries.'

And after tick X you give them a mail stating they should init to 500 and back up if they get roided.
Or something alike. The bad thing is is that people will recognize 'sheep' (those following these rules) and will adapt to it, building for instance pure ghost/widow fleets and roid those planets to bits.
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 14:24   #3
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Re: Startup suggestion

I am not a moderator on PS, only on AD. However, this is a suggestion for Planetarion, so logic dictates that Planetarion Suggestions would indeed be the correct spot.

I agree that there is currently very little guidance for new players in PA. Quests were a good idea but are much too hard to find and don't really help much beyond the first 24 hours. Light's design document has a chapter that attempts to improve this.

Your suggestion should also be taken into consideration. I don't think it'd be very hard to implement, hell, you can just put a reminder in Appoco's calendar and he can do it manually. Maybe he can put one in to disable vacation mode in time too.

Additionally, quests should be auto-started. There's no reason why the choice to start one should be explicit, unless quests were mutually exclusive (which they are not). Quests also need their own page, rather than being squeezed in between the MotD and whatever else you can find on the overview page.

And while we're at it, whose brilliant idea was it to only allow people to pick a government in the first 24(?) hours? Revert that shit back to 336 ticks asap (or, even better, to 1177 ticks).
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 14:24   #4
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Re: Startup suggestion

Yeh wander if there needs to be a basic strategy (or pro con list) for each race ingame. Its all well and good having stuff on forums but the vast majority of users never join them so it goes unused. Maybe it could be in this hints/tips thing you suggest. Like a two line pro and con for each race so you can play to your strengths with your time available.

ie.

Xan

Pros: Cloaked ships make it harder for defenders/attackers to calculate what you have sent. Have more distorters makes this bonus even more effective.

Cons: Weak ships which are killed easily and are needed in large numbers to kill others.


^^ something like that


I just want it so its harder for newbies to muck up and get disintrested. Maybe also it could have a list of alliances who are actively recruiting new players aswell, this could be an option which alliances could checkbox to be included in upon there creation
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 14:37   #5
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Re: Startup suggestion

Anything at this point is better than the current system in Planetarion which amounts to 'initiate 9 asteroids'.

As for helping new players, the main problem with Planetarion is that nearly everything is thrown at the player at tick 0 with everything else thrown at them at tick 24 (end of protection). There is no learning curve and theres no real guidence. Whatever system you use, you cant really get around the fact that you're forcing new players to make huge gameplay choices that they dont understand. Weither its a system which flashes to tell them to make the choice or a quest which tells them to make the choice.. the problem is still the fact that they've got to make an uninformed choice.

Lets go through afew of these things:
RACE is done at signup, where they dont know a thing about the game.. hell they havent even logged in yet. Race tends to have a huge impact on how a player should start and creates complications as it means you now need 5 different starts.

Population is done at tick 0, what should they set it to? are you going to flash up that they should set their population? how are you going to guide them in whats the standard strat? quests allow you to do that, alerts just point out that they havent done it yet.

Governments is done at tick 0, but what government should they choose? how can you guide them? they dont know what strategy they're going, they dont even know the possibility strategys.. they've only just logged in.

I certainly think that you've highlighted something important, that the current quest system (while redudant) can be ignored by new players, its easy to miss and easy to neglect. It should be at the centre of every new players experience, guiding them through startuo.

The main problem is that the PA Team is either lazy or forget to update things. When the startup bonus was implemented, they forgot to change the quests.. so now the quests are obsolete. So if you go for a quest or alert system, it creates extra work for the PA Team as they need to make sure its kept up to date when they make changes.

Edit: Just read through this and seems ive typed alot of incoherent garbage without really addressing the point.. will edit it properly later but a better solution would be to make quests more noticable rather than adding an additional alert system.
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 14:55   #6
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Re: Startup suggestion

An alert system would be better than the quest system.

All that needs to change is the way you signup


1. Sign up without race choice (checkbox which u need answer yes or no for tips/help before proceeding)

2. Tips page pops up. Giving you a race overveiw (the pro cons list - with suggestions about what is better for casual or hardcore player), a overveiw of what the game is about fundementally (5 lines or less), and explanation of allaines and there function in PA (again 3-5 lines) and the use of IRC in gameplay (2 lines maximum)

3. You are taken to Preferences page where you need to change your password, select your skin, change your r/p name if required and choose your race.

4. Taken to Government page where you choose your Government (with better written explanation of what is better for which style rather than the current lingo which tells you very little and can already been seen from the bonuses anyway)

5. taken to population page where you assign your population (possibly this should automatically be set on 25% mining, 50% research, 25% construction as im aware this is the tactic the vast majority of PA players use. maybe it could say this its the standard setting found to be most useful for new players but feel free to edit this to your needs if required)

6. Taken to the mining page where there is an explanation that 100 of each type is the standard setup but feel free to do as you want.

7. Taken to overveiw where you get a pop up telling you to visit the alliances page (where there is a list of allainces accepting new players (via checkbox mentioned in earlier post)) and to then a link to the research/construction page of manual so people can read what is best and told to click assign startup bonuses at top of page to start there research and constructions



Maybe by forcing people through the setup rather than leaving them to work it out for themselves it would guarantee people dont **** up as much and are better prepared for the round ahead...

If you dont check yes for help at signup then you dont get the popups but still get taken through the different areas automatically. I dont think this would annoy older players too much as it would just be like a normal setup but just be auto guided rather than clicking on different areas
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 15:13   #7
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Re: Startup suggestion

In addition if the best way to keep new players is 'dumb things down' or forced them through things so that they dont get lost from the start of the game why is it called Production and not ShipYard. As far as im aware the only thing you can build there is ships and production doesnt exactly stand out as a description of somewhere you would build ships, whereas ShipYard would. When you build some ships if refers to the Guild of Shipmakers so it standard to reason they would be making them at a shipyard.

Just a silly little niggle but maybe something that would help newer players more...
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 19:42   #8
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Re: Startup suggestion

I wonder if anyone ever reads these threads (

Do the pa team even come on forums apart from Appoco?

If not then surely its a waste of time putting ideas and suggestion sup in the first place
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 20:08   #9
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Re: Startup suggestion

They just never reply.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 00:37   #10
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Re: Startup suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
An alert system would be better than the quest system.
Not really, a quest system would be ALOT better than a simple alert system for the new player. The only thing is, it requires more work to keep it updated.

Quote:
1. Sign up without race choice (checkbox which u need answer yes or no for tips/help before proceeding)

2. Tips page pops up. Giving you a race overveiw (the pro cons list - with suggestions about what is better for casual or hardcore player), a overveiw of what the game is about fundementally (5 lines or less), and explanation of allaines and there function in PA (again 3-5 lines) and the use of IRC in gameplay (2 lines maximum)

3. You are taken to Preferences page where you need to change your password, select your skin, change your r/p name if required and choose your race.

4. Taken to Government page where you choose your Government (with better written explanation of what is better for which style rather than the current lingo which tells you very little and can already been seen from the bonuses anyway)

5. taken to population page where you assign your population (possibly this should automatically be set on 25% mining, 50% research, 25% construction as im aware this is the tactic the vast majority of PA players use. maybe it could say this its the standard setting found to be most useful for new players but feel free to edit this to your needs if required)

6. Taken to the mining page where there is an explanation that 100 of each type is the standard setup but feel free to do as you want.

7. Taken to overveiw where you get a pop up telling you to visit the alliances page (where there is a list of allainces accepting new players (via checkbox mentioned in earlier post)) and to then a link to the research/construction page of manual so people can read what is best and told to click assign startup bonuses at top of page to start there research and constructions
That is one hell of a signup page....

You're not really doing much here, you're just forcing them through the setup without much explanation and not teaching them anything. You're just rushing them through the setup and throwing them out into the wild.

You're actually making the problem much much worse, as now you're forcing the player to make every single strategy choice in the game at signup, which is pretty WTF.

It takes alot to create a proper learning curve for a game, especially one which currently doesnt have one. Rushing the player through doesnt do much, everything you've proposed could simply be solved by making quests more visible which is as simple as giving them there own page and highlighting the link (or button) when theres a new quest.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 04:30   #11
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Re: Startup suggestion

Actually my suggestion with tips along the way is better than the quest system or the current 'dumped on overveiw page and work it out for yourself' setup.

Any game you buy from a shop will start you off by forcing you through the basics with accompyning tips and tutorials. PA cant work exactly like that cos it cant simulate battle situations and so on but it can guide you through a basic planet setup with pop-up tips and explainations.


The core of what new players muck up on is setting governments and assigning population and inted roids at the start because there not aware when arriving at the overveiw screen that they need to do that unless they wade through the wall of text and intricate text that is the manual.

You want to make the game more accessible to new players and you want them to enjoy there experience in PA so you have to hold there hand when they arrive its just the way stuff works. You dont need to bombard them with over detailed explanations and so on, just keep it short and simple and make things easier to find.


The only things you can assume when they signup is that they know its a space based strategy game and that they can use a computer, you cant take anything else for granted which is why you need to force them through the setup with over simplified explanations and the 'hand holding' method
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 05:02   #12
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Re: Startup suggestion

i like this tips along the way idea, good replacemnt for the quest system that seems to bore most of the current playerbase.

and prolly will be more shorter and less boring for the new players to go through.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 05:09   #13
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Re: Startup suggestion

Yeh although it may be assumed that most players want to learn things for themselves (ie the Quest system) i think u'll find most people would just like to be shown.

There is nothing worse than having a new player turn up in your allaince with a planet which isnt set up even to minimum requirements, meaning you have to make them reset and then guide them through - this annoys the experienced players and the new player who mucked up. My idea would remove this from happening and would give the new player a sense of doing something right from the start.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 10:20   #14
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Re: Startup suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Actually my suggestion with tips along the way is better than the quest system or the current 'dumped on overveiw page and work it out for yourself' setup.
As i said earlier, anything is better than the current quest system. The question is more of, do we want to improve the quest system or abandon it and turn it into hints and tips along the way.

Quote:
Any game you buy from a shop will start you off by forcing you through the basics with accompyning tips and tutorials. PA cant work exactly like that cos it cant simulate battle situations and so on but it can guide you through a basic planet setup with pop-up tips and explainations.
Yes it can work like that, you can do more detailed quests at startup which guide the player through how to attack and defend.

Quote:
The core of what new players muck up on is setting governments and assigning population and inted roids at the start because there not aware when arriving at the overveiw screen that they need to do that unless they wade through the wall of text and intricate text that is the manual.
New players muck up on tick 0, not due to a quest system, not due to having no alerts. Its simply due to extremly poor game design where it forces the player to make every gamechanging choice at signup.

Theres no real way to fix that with just quests or tips. You're just going to force the player into one strategy without much explanation which doesnt really offer them anything or make the game fun for them. To fix it, you need to change startup completly and stagger the choices so that the player is more informed when asked.

Quote:
You want to make the game more accessible to new players and you want them to enjoy there experience in PA so you have to hold there hand when they arrive its just the way stuff works. You dont need to bombard them with over detailed explanations and so on, just keep it short and simple and make things easier to find.
There is a difference between holding there hand, and forcing them to make all gameplay choices at tick 0. It really doesnt matter what you do, no new player will be informed enough to make a choice on what government or race is best for them.

o, government X is better for research? well that sounds good.. i dont really understand research yet, i dont really understand the impact of research but i presume its important, i dont really understand if i need it to be faster, i dont understand anything.

Quote:
The only things you can assume when they signup is that they know its a space based strategy game and that they can use a computer, you cant take anything else for granted which is why you need to force them through the setup with over simplified explanations and the 'hand holding' method
Players do want to learn, the thing is.. there is no learning curve in PA. Forcing the player through the choices doesnt help as they are still not informed and not prepared when protection ends.

The point of any tutorial system is not to make sure the player makes all the correct choices, like initiating 300 roids or setting the right population. It is to ensure that all players coming out of protection are up to a certain standard and understand the game mechanics they need to play the game.

Yes, the current quest system doesnt do that but that does not mean it cant.

The point im trying to make in all of this, is yes.. you're suggestion will force everyone to at least set there population and government but its just a small bandage on the problem. Should the PA Team divert there attention to apply a small bandage on the situation which is in the opposite direction that they need to go to properly fix the startup?
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Last edited by Light; 1 Oct 2010 at 10:29.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 17:19   #15
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Re: Startup suggestion

I dont see how improving the quest system will help in the long run - its failed in its logic and irritates experienced players. My idea would fix that problem.

The whole point of hints and tips is that you do inform the player as he progreeses through setting up.


ie. When picking race have the list of race bonuses each race has under it and in the hint and tip popup have a quick explanation of what each bonus is for - it doesnt need more than a line or two for each the problem atm with the manual which lets be honest anyone reading would die of boredom is that it dedicates half a page to each thing when its really not neccessary for a new player.

All a new player needs is to be setup properly and then when he/she joins an alliance which is recruiting new players then they can have the indepth stuff explained to them by a member of that allaince.

You dont need a deep understanding of this game to play it you just need to be setup correctly at the start. If your government choice is a bad one its still better than not choosing one at all which some new players do, and its still playable.

A new player just needs to have a basic setup and something to point there ships at - the allainces deliver the strategy and indepth nature of the game which is why i also suggest the alliances could also have a option to show themselves as actively recruit new players - on the allaince screen it could have a section saying....

(Example)

Alliances recruiting new players:

ODDR - 48 members - Universe Rank 6th

Howling Rain - 35 members - Universe Rank 8th

HeX - 30 members - Universe Rank 10th


Then it could have the drop down with all alliances underneath so players can still choose any allaince. This would guide players to the right allainces to help them at the start and stopping them aiming to high at the start and then giving up when they dont get accepted to alliances such as Apprime or Ascendancy.

When an allaince reach tag limit or decides it has enough new players for the round it could uncheck the box and be removed from the list.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 23:42   #16
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Re: Startup suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I dont see how improving the quest system will help in the long run - its failed in its logic and irritates experienced players. My idea would fix that problem.
The only reason the quest system irritates experienced players is that it isnt implemented properly. The current quest system is broken as experienced players have to complete the quests in a certain order in order to get the best start.

A good 'starting' quest system, is one where experienced players will do it anyway without even knowing. With auto-accept and a proper order, experienced players wont even have to bother with the quest page. As the main ones are Initiate roids, set goverment, set population, start res/con.. If its done in a strict order (i.e. has to initiate roids before government is unlocked) and the rewards are done properly.. then a experienced player can just do what they'll do anyway and the quests will autocomplete.

So if the quest order was initiate roids > set population > set goverment.

A experienced player wont even bother with the quests, they can login and set there goverment (wont complete), set population (wont complete) and then initiate the roids they want and then all 3 will complete without the player even bothering visiting the quest screen.

The problem is also that theres quests which dont really need to be there, such as changing password and changing skin.

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The whole point of hints and tips is that you do inform the player as he progreeses through setting up.
but thats what quests do and they do it in a more detailed way.

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ie. When picking race have the list of race bonuses each race has under it and in the hint and tip popup have a quick explanation of what each bonus is for - it doesnt need more than a line or two for each the problem atm with the manual which lets be honest anyone reading would die of boredom is that it dedicates half a page to each thing when its really not neccessary for a new player.
The race selection page should already have an explanation of each race. You dont need alerts for it, just a better GUI with better details.

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All a new player needs is to be setup properly and then when he/she joins an alliance which is recruiting new players then they can have the indepth stuff explained to them by a member of that allaince.
not really, the point of protection coupled with a tutorial/quest/alerts system is to get new players up to a certain standard before they are thrown into the masses. A properly done quest system will make sure people are up to this standard and can be done without irritating experienced players.

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You dont need a deep understanding of this game to play it you just need to be setup correctly at the start. If your government choice is a bad one its still better than not choosing one at all which some new players do, and its still playable.
and a proper quest system will ensure the player chooses a government. Just make the quest system more visible.

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A new player just needs to have a basic setup and something to point there ships at - the allainces deliver the strategy and indepth nature of the game which is why i also suggest the alliances could also have a option to show themselves as actively recruit new players - on the allaince screen it could have a section saying....
The vast majority of new players will not find an alliance in the first round they play or for most of there first round.


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Then it could have the drop down with all alliances underneath so players can still choose any allaince. This would guide players to the right allainces to help them at the start and stopping them aiming to high at the start and then giving up when they dont get accepted to alliances such as Apprime or Ascendancy.
While this is a good suggestion, its not an alert system which is needed. Its to implement your suggestion in the alliance page for un-allied players.


The only problem with a proper quest/task system which an alert system is better, is that if the PA Team ever implements a good quest system.. I think that within 4-6 rounds it'll be broke again when it isnt updated to go with the changes. As a quest system needs to be changed whenever theres a gameplay change or formula change.
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Last edited by Light; 2 Oct 2010 at 23:50.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 02:09   #17
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Re: Startup suggestion

Pretty sure we went off alert and into autoguided setup about 4 posts ago....


The autoguided setup technically works like the quest system and yes the currently system is broken and could just do with removing.

Aslong as descriptions of races, governments and gameplay are accurate and precise then they could be edited quickly when gameplay changes - currently with the manual being the encyclopedia it is any major changes take serious amounts of typing to update.

I dont beleive you need to reward players with things like the current quest system - wtf is 2k resources or 2 roids in the grand schem of things seriously. We should be enabling them to have a proper basic setup without reward instead of giving them some chump gift for clicking a button a subject they dont understand.


You say the quest system is broken yet fulfils its role currently - but tell me when for example you start the quests and do the government is does it tell you what government is or how it affects your game in a way that benefits anyone - the fact u have to exapnd yourself (if you know that is viable) to get a bigger explaination helps no one. Atleast with a on screen popup for new players (whihc could be turnoffable for pros) the information is straight there and in your face rather than you having to access it to understand what your doing.


Personally if i was a new player to any game a guided setup and popup help at each turn would be more beneficial than any indepth manual or the current quest system that PA operates.

Its about making new players feel that PA cares about them from the start and wants them to get the best basic start available - everyone wants that when joining a game and i feel my idea incooperates that the best.


In regards to my idea about alliances, i cant believe such a simple thing isnt already implemented. It benefits everyone and aids people new and old looking for alliances. I think it actually shows how disintrested with PA in its current guise the PA Team actually is that it hasnt come up with something resembling this small addition to the alliance screen.


The problem is i could peddle this idea till im blue in the face but Jagex so far haven't given a shit about PA and the PA Team dont care anymore.


So really this whole section of the forums is a giant joke, maybe i should go give my idea to Spinner for his new game - atleast i reckon he would look at it and judge it on its merits and give constructive criticism.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 14:39   #18
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Re: Startup suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Aslong as descriptions of races, governments and gameplay are accurate and precise then they could be edited quickly when gameplay changes - currently with the manual being the encyclopedia it is any major changes take serious amounts of typing to update.
but shouldnt the page where you select those things already have descriptions of what each means? We dont need to auto-guide them at signup when we can just explain what the choice means on the page where they select.

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I dont beleive you need to reward players with things like the current quest system - wtf is 2k resources or 2 roids in the grand schem of things seriously. We should be enabling them to have a proper basic setup without reward instead of giving them some chump gift for clicking a button a subject they dont understand.
Stop thinking of the quest system as it is now, ive said countless times anything is better than the current quest system. No help at all is about as useful as the current quest system.

A proper quest system is a tutorial and takes them through every area of the game. If you read my design document at the last page it goes through how i'd do the quests to give you an example of what i mean.

Also, making a choice is a huge problem. It doesnt matter what you do, the user will never be informed enough to make that choice. Its a gameplay problem, not a learning problem.

Race choice? EMP is a race which freezes other ships instead of killing them, its usually more efficient than kill ships and strong at the beginning of the round but as the round progresses, they become weaker and weaker as other races begin to overpower you.

How the hell, does that inform the user of anything about races? They still dont really know what it means, the strategys involved, what they're losing, which shipclass to aim for. At the end of the day, the user should not be forced to make the most important choice in the game at signup.. its just bad game design. A quest system or auto-guided signup is not the solution.

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You say the quest system is broken yet fulfils its role currently - but tell me when for example you start the quests and do the government is does it tell you what government is or how it affects your game in a way that benefits anyone - the fact u have to exapnd yourself (if you know that is viable) to get a bigger explaination helps no one. Atleast with a on screen popup for new players (whihc could be turnoffable for pros) the information is straight there and in your face rather than you having to access it to understand what your doing.
No, i say the quest system is broken and is completly useless. I say that a good designed quest system can be awesome and guide the player, if you'd like a game.. signup to war of legends and look at there 'task' system. It guides the player without forcing them to do anything, it offers guidence and a way the user can check their on the right path.. it also shows them how to attack and what to build as the game progresses.

At the end of the day though, a quest system, alert system or auto-guided system should not tell the user what a government does. You know what should do that? The government page. Whatever system should just guide the user to that page. However, its another case of purely bad game design where the user has to make choices at tick 0 where they arnt informed and theres no way to properly inform them. "This government gives you a faster research speed so you can research things quicker", how does a new player know how valuable research speed is? how can they compare it to construction speed or production costs or security? They dont know planetarion or its mechanics and they dont know how valuable something is when compared to something else.

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Personally if i was a new player to any game a guided setup and popup help at each turn would be more beneficial than any indepth manual or the current quest system that PA operates.
As ive said before, ANYTHING is better than the current quest system.

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Its about making new players feel that PA cares about them from the start and wants them to get the best basic start available - everyone wants that when joining a game and i feel my idea incooperates that the best.
and most games do that through a quest, tutorial or task system.. as it provides the flexibility and encouragement needed.

I mean, lets take attacking? How would your system explain to a player how to use scans to properly attack? or how to defend properly? it cant.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 15:10   #19
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Re: Startup suggestion

The auto guide is meant to take them through the neccessary pages they need to there planet basically setup. Its not forced them to make decisions its showing things they have to do to not **** up there game. ie. gov and pop. If you dont set either of those 2 your planet is screwed.

The popup help things could be on each page of PA, like scans and Fleets and so on. If you write the description at the top - no one pays any attanetion to it. If it pops up and u have to close it to do anything on the page u take notice. Simple but effective design.

The manual needs rewriting cos unless you have a degree in something its complete goobledygook and way too long winded even then. Short precise and to the point should be the order of the day.


Using scans effectively when attacking and how to pick your target tbh is trial and error, thats just how the game is. The amount of error can be reduce by the alliance you choose and the guidance it gives you.

Alliance definatly need to be more active in there help of new players - or maybe there should be workshop sessions on iRC for new players where things they dont understand can be voiced and answered and more selective gameplay features can be explained to them.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 17:57   #20
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Re: Startup suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
The auto guide is meant to take them through the neccessary pages they need to there planet basically setup. Its not forced them to make decisions its showing things they have to do to not **** up there game. ie. gov and pop. If you dont set either of those 2 your planet is screwed.

The popup help things could be on each page of PA, like scans and Fleets and so on. If you write the description at the top - no one pays any attanetion to it. If it pops up and u have to close it to do anything on the page u take notice. Simple but effective design.

The manual needs rewriting cos unless you have a degree in something its complete goobledygook and way too long winded even then. Short precise and to the point should be the order of the day.


Using scans effectively when attacking and how to pick your target tbh is trial and error, thats just how the game is. The amount of error can be reduce by the alliance you choose and the guidance it gives you.

Alliance definatly need to be more active in there help of new players - or maybe there should be workshop sessions on iRC for new players where things they dont understand can be voiced and answered and more selective gameplay features can be explained to them.
Firstly, learning the basics of attacking and defending should not be trial and error when its the core of the game. Without teaching them that, then it makes everything else trivial.. It does not matter if the new player has set there population or government, if as soon as they get out of protection, they get owned and quit.

Secondly, which i didnt address before. The rewards do not have to be trivial, especially now we have a startup bonus. The quests are heavily designed around setting up the players planet and the rewards are extremly nice (total of the rewards = the startup bonus), with the rewards being staggered out and they are shown how they should be using them.

The player starts with 0 resources, and the quests give the player the resources to do the next quest. So setting population (I want governments changed, so that quest wouldnt be at started) would give you the resources to start your first research which is the next quest, and that quest gives you the resources to start your next construction, then you get enough resources to initiate 300 asteroids, followed by more quests.

With the techtree redesigned and quests pointing the user to research ships, the user should have access to build ships before protection and on that quest they get given the majorty of the startup bonus with the guidence to spend it on ships.

It allows every alternate strategy as people can still spend that startup on more roids, or they could init less roids. They can also go there own path but it forces and guides the new user so they cant go wrong.

If scans (i want basic scans) are available to everyone which provides them with enough information to do basic calcs for attacking and defending, you can then do quests at tick 0 which take the user through the basics of attacking and defending (using bot planets as the basis).

With a well designed quest system, you can make sure that by the time anyone reaches the end of there protection period, they know the basics of the game and can actually play the game. Which is the point of any startup, it also allows experienced players to do what they want.

A signup where the user is basically forced onto the population and government pages doesnt really do much. They still dont really know what to do and how to play the game. The thing is, you can achieve what you want to do, simply by making quests more visibile which is easily done by returning to a button GUI where the buttons are highlighted if something new is there they should see.

A Quest button, a News button, a Gal status button and a alliance status button. Then the user will easily be directed to the quest system, as it would be highlighted when theres a new quest unlocked and told when they have completed a quest.

The main point im trying to make with your suggestion, is that it isnt really fixing the problem of start-up for new players. You're only making sure they set a government or population, which while it will be a help to them, it doesnt really add much for there experience which couldnt be achieved through better more in-depth ways.

The other good thing about a properly implemented quest system, is that at the beginning of the game, it acts as a tutorial but as the round progresses, it can transform into an achievement system which will be a nice addition to the game when we have a passport system.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

Last edited by Light; 3 Oct 2010 at 18:08.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 19:10   #21
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Re: Startup suggestion

But then you have to look at wat is more practical for the PA team to implement. In an ideal world yes an all singing all dancing quest system would be best, but this isnt an ideal world. My idea would atleast be an easy fix for the current problem whilst time and effort is put into overhauling the quest system to meet your requirements.
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