Quake 4

[Androme]

Just a gathering of your opinions because the last time I refered to it, I made a suggestion that I didn't think it would be as good a game as Quake 3 Arena (yes, Quake 3 Arena isn't like Quake 2 & Quake 4 but I still prefer that tbh.) and well, my expectation proved to be right.

The Doom 3 engine used in Quake 4 is good but it's not that great (same flaws exist and weren't corrected). I prefered Half-Life 2's engine and also, HL2's gameplay. However, the Quake 4 'experience' was 10x better than Doom 3's which just lacked imho - this is despite the fact at many points during the game, I felt like I was playing Doom 3 again - long unwinding levels, dark settings, things jumping out at various points. Oh, there's a lot of lifts in the latter stages of the game and a lot of interactive screens... sounds like I'm describing Doom 3... again (well duh... same engine before anyone tells me that) - I just expected gameplays to vary.

Dabbing a slab of new paint on it doesn't make the underlying core change which is how I feel towards Quake 4. The efforts put into it are monstrous with the how many years work gone into it but it doesn't live up to my expectation and the hype that I saw build up.

Multiplayer wise, it doesn't have the same zest as Quake 3 Arena does but it's certainly not as shit as Doom 3's...well...

[MrL_JaKiri]

Quake IV is significantly different from Doom III - just look at the number of proper fights in Quake IV, with a large group of enemies every few paces rather than a zombie or monster closet every few hundred yards.

Quake IV also has NONE of the problem solving of Doom III. That's not to say that Doom III has much, but Quake IV doesn't have any. No "Go and turn the power on so I can activate this thing which will get me past that door so I can go round and open the hatch from the other side", it's "Go to point A through the open doors. You may have to wait for scripted sequences for the doors to open, but that involves either standing around or shooting enemies which just swarm at you. Get to point A, use console, return to start." (Add in that you've been sent to point A on your own and the other marine(s) stay behind almost every time, the message over the comlink that they're being attacked starts to get annoying after the first few dozen times.)

The vehicle controls are abominable, the game has absolutely no replay value as there's effectively no AI and the only interesting behaviour is scripted anyway. It follows the same basic pattern as Doom III (fight your way back to commanding officer OH NOES HE TURNS INTO SOME KIND OF BOSS LATER IN THE GAME), and indeed most other generic FPS's, such as Halo.

There are some good things - it's very pretty, in a technically adept sort of way, the stroggification scene is exceptionally well done and the guns are the meatiest sounding for quite a while.

I would like to be able to comment on the multiplayer, but it just doesn't work.

Quake IV ends up being pretty mediocre, but nothing within the game is mediocre - it's either excellent or terrible.

[Androme]

"The vehicle controls are abominable"

True - that's another factor I loved HL2 so much - I loved the glider... til I started crashing everywhere

There are some good things - it's very pretty, in a technically adept sort of way, the stroggification scene is exceptionally well done and the guns are the meatiest sounding for quite a while.

I do agree with this - the idea was brilliant but the execution reminded me of that long part in Doom 3 where you're in a pod being transported and you're doing jack all - the graphics and the way it's built up is ace but apart from that, woo "go static!".

just look at the number of proper fights in Quake IV, with a large group of enemies every few paces rather than a zombie or monster closet every few hundred yards.

This is kind of defeated with the Dark Anti-Matter gun, despite its slow reloading.

What I liked above this was the 2ndary function of the rocket launcher (once you got the upgrade) and being able to home-in with the mouse, being able to lock-on with the nail-gun and the zoom on the railgun to make it a sniper - hardly innovative but still, nice touches to the game.

[xtrasyn]

Jeez´, get a room you two.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by xtrasyn

Jeez´, get a room you two.

Don't need a room - with the power of Intel inside you can network from miles away.... .........heh

[Nodrog]

It obviously wont be as good as QW, and its not possible to make a game thats worse than quake 2, so I expect it to be similar to Q3/UT standards; pretty good fun in short doses, but ultimately oversimplified nonsense aimed at the massmarket rather than serious gamers.

I'll try it out anyway though.

[MrL_JaKiri]

I would hardly call UT oversimplified.

[Nodrog]

UT is basically just about being good at aiming and shooting. All the weapons are decent so you just need to find the nearest one and start firing at people. It doesnt have the higher levels of skill involved in things like map control and manipulating the physics that QW does.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

UT is basically just about being good at aiming and shooting. All the weapons are decent so you just need to find the nearest one and start firing at people. It doesnt have the higher levels of skill involved in things like map control and manipulating the physics that QW does.

Map Control is immensely significant in UT - so much so that many people consider the game inherently imbalanced because there is a single weapon which gives a disproportionately large amount of map control through having it (the shock rifle). Obviously in a large FFA it doesn't matter, but 1 on 1 you have to have excellent map control, and the movement is also more complicated, to a certain extent (although UT2K3 had even more so than the latest iteration, but that was a "bug" and became a mutator).

Whilst there are a lot more "useful" weapons (ie all of them) it just means that not only do you have to control the map wrt the pickups (Double Damage, Shield, Super Shield (all on seperate respawn timers), weapons) you also have to control the situations that you engange your opponent in much more carefully - control the hitscan weapons and engage at range, for example.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

UT is basically just about being good at aiming and shooting.

So is Quake 3 but there are tactics involved if you've ever been in a serious clan that gets paid for playing through tournaments etc. etc.

It's cooler that way - it shows those people who might spend £50 on a laser mouse that it doesn't improve your gaming abilities immensely and these companies are cashing in on an idea that only slightly improves your gaming ability... I mean potential... I am one such victim of this. I spent £45 on the Logitech G5 Gaming Mouse and another £28 on the eXactMat w/ Wrist Pad mouse pad... HEH big mistake - the mouse is comfy but then so is the MX500 and MX1000 mice heh.

[MrL_JaKiri]

I spent £12 on my MS Intellimouse 4.0.

[Kurashima]

Saw it on the shelves in the local GAME store.

Walked on by. TBH, it hadnt sounded groundbreaking in the leadup, and reviews have proved that to be the case.

The franchise that is Quake / Doom , is in serious trouble if they dont get themselves together.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Kurashima

The franchise that is Quake / Doom , is in serious trouble if they dont get themselves together.

That's no surprise. The games are basically dominated by John Carmack, who's a gigantic nerd when it comes to constructing video game engines but doesn't care about anything else.

He had strong objections to even going so far as to putting a physics engine in Doom III, because it would take up too much processor time/distract the player.

Carmack (J) and Raven are the perfect match, because they've made nothing but the same game since 1997.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Carmack (J) and Raven are the perfect match, because they've made nothing but the same game since 1997.

(J) for Jackass or for Jiggalo?

Anyway, Unreal 3 engine looks sweet. iD Software should look into that. May be hire some Lemmings.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Androme2

(J) for Jackass or for Jiggalo?

John. As opposed to Adrian Carmack (not related).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carmack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carmack

John Carmack sounds exactly like Frink from The Simpsons.

[Psi_K]

If anyone could create a game with the physics of quake 1 with good graphics(By far best system to date), they'll make a killing.
Quake 4 is decent (from what I've played so far), and multiplayer is sub-par as usual...
Get rail gun, snipe people, use rocket launcher after hitting with rail gun.
Repeat.

[djbass]

Originally Posted by Psi_K

If anyone could create a game with the physics of quake 1 with good graphics(By far best system to date), they'll make a killing.
Quake 4 is decent (from what I've played so far), and multiplayer is sub-par as usual...
Get rail gun, snipe people, use rocket launcher after hitting with rail gun.
Repeat.

I've often wondered if that was infact a catch-22 and why this may not be possible. Having worked with the quake engine myself I came to the conclusion that many of the whacky physics that made the game fun are the result partially of the moderately low detail models & resolutions used with quake. The physics feel OTT because they are enacting on a disproportionate world, once you bump up the size and detail of the polygons to match the higher resolutions of todays computers, it loses its feeling of being a super-man of sorts and bouncing around on rockets and grenades. I've even tested this theory by the likes of projects like fuhquake which bump up the detail and resolutions possible for the quake engine and the feeling is just ever so slightly different.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by djbass

I've often wondered if that was infact a catch-22 and why this may not be possible. Having worked with the quake engine myself I came to the conclusion that many of the whacky physics that made the game fun are the result partially of the moderately low detail models & resolutions used with quake. The physics feel OTT because they are enacting on a disproportionate world, once you bump up the size and detail of the polygons to match the higher resolutions of todays computers, it loses its feeling of being a super-man of sorts and bouncing around on rockets and grenades. I've even tested this theory by the likes of projects like fuhquake which bump up the detail and resolutions possible for the quake engine and the feeling is just ever so slightly different.

I'm not sure what youre talking about. Its not a 'feeling' of speed, you can measure how fast youre bunnyhopping quantatively using a speedometer mod and its easy to get to 3/4 times the normal running speed. Also, the graphics on quake1 werent that bad if you wanted to be a faggot and use GLQuake with a highish resolution, but non-accelerated 320x200 with d_mipcap 3, fov 110 and fullbrights was the best for being good even if it looked absolutely terrible to the point of not even looking like a computer game.

[Embroglio]

MP has some potential with crouch sliding etc. but weapon balance is poor (rg, ng, sg all OP) and the out of the box maps are obscenely poor (no suprise there though)

after a few patches of bug fixing and a decent competiton mod could be pretty good though

[Psi_K]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I'm not sure what youre talking about. Its not a 'feeling' of speed, you can measure how fast youre bunnyhopping quantatively using a speedometer mod and its easy to get to 3/4 times the normal running speed. Also, the graphics on quake1 werent that bad if you wanted to be a faggot and use GLQuake with a highish resolution, but non-accelerated 320x200 with d_mipcap 3, fov 110 and fullbrights was the best for being good even if it looked absolutely terrible to the point of not even looking like a computer game.

You could make quake look good, and you could also make it look bad.
GLQuake was really nice looking and it helped shape everything up at 640x480 and above.
I agree with the point where if you bumped everything to max, it makes the game 'feel' different, that was mainly to do with the coding and it didn't overly enjoy running at high rez.

The 'feel' of quake one, and the balance of the weapons (imo) made it a classic.
I'd still play if people weren't playing fagg0rt mods to everything.

[Emperor Rozenski]

The single player game is enjoyable for the most part, but it does get a bit repetitive when you get to the last Nexus missions. It's like they just did a copy and paste job on the maps, OK, you could argue the towers would all have the same design, but even the background is the same - Three separate towers, yet the view from the top all three (where you have to activate the switches) shows an identical mountain range and the same crashed cruiser on the surface below, a bit lazy. The final bosses went down to a fraction of the firepower required earlier to take down that fatass with a Jet-Pack, bit of a let down there as well.

The plot gets a bit weak in parts too. For example, after you've been Strogified you meet up with marines in the field in the Strogg complex who don't know who you are (I'm not talking about the ones that release you but other people you meet later), yet they immedietly accept you as 'human' and work with you, yet later when you're back on your ship people are treating you like dirt and some even point weapons at you until the officer escorting you tells them to stand fast.

I've not tried MP yet, but based on the single player I don't think I'm going to be switching from Quake 3 for my multiplayer FPS fix any time soon. However, I've just finished the F.E.A.R. single player game which I felt was great and much better than Q4 was. I'll definitely give that MP a look in the not too distant future.