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Unread 27 May 2005, 23:07   #51
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: Australian drug girl

Presumably because they can easily victimise most drugs smugglers, whereas they have to be slightly careful with militant clerics lest they suffer political repurcussions.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 23:12   #52
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Question Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Drug smugglers of the world unite \o/
And take over Columbia?
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Unread 27 May 2005, 23:25   #53
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
My point is that there seems to be a double standard for criminal sentencing in Indonesia. One which applies to muslim clerics who lead terrorist organizations which blow up foreigners and another which applies to foreigners who smuggle marijuana. I'm not impressed with a legal system where the later get prison sentences eight times longer than the former.
i knew what your point was. i just don't see how it actually contradicts the point it was made in response to, which was that she did the crime and subsequently should not be exempt from doing the time.
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Unread 27 May 2005, 23:29   #54
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
My point is that there seems to be a double standard for criminal sentencing in Indonesia. One which applies to muslim clerics who lead terrorist organizations which blow up foreigners and another which applies to foreigners who smuggle marijuana. I'm not impressed with a legal system where the later get prison sentences eight times longer than the former.

He was only convicted of 'conspiracy' to do something evil , not actually being a terrorist or commiting any murders or ordering any.


You'd be hapier if they ignored the lack of evidence and said "**** it we dont like you so off with your head" ?


Which way do you want it ffs, working on the evidence given in all cases or working on suspicions?

Either way this woman would be screwed but in one of them she'd be dead rather than incarcerated.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 02:11   #55
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
Which consequences?

Edit: To clarify, I've many a friend who use recreational drugs on nights out and yet manage to refrain from mugging old women, turning up to work stoned and jumping from balconies, I'm having genuine difficulty seeing the 'grave consequences' of allowing the restricted sale of high-quality drugs through licensed vendors.
Death, permanent damage to nerve-system, permanent damage to brain, damage to the psyche of a person (cousing depressions, fear of crowds etc) and so on.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 02:19   #56
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Re: Australian drug girl

i just saw her on tv and shes guilty.

She made nicole kidman look like a good actress.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 02:41   #57
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Death, permanent damage to nerve-system, permanent damage to brain, damage to the psyche of a person (cousing depressions, fear of crowds etc) and so on.
I was thinking rather more broadly; I could honestly give a **** about the individuals involved.

I was assuming 'grave consequences' extended beyond 'ohnoes i got pretty ****ed up on drugs who'd have thought' here.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 02:50   #58
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Re: Australian drug girl

You write two lines pab, and you manage to contradict yourself.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 02:59   #59
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Re: Australian drug girl

I have a very strong belief in personal freedom and individual rights which leads me to the idea that people are entitled to do with themselves as they wish unless it directly impinges on another individual. As such unless she was bringing drugs into the country in order to sell them to small children I have no problem with her actions. I have no time for flawed legal systems so I don't find much meaning in the whole "she knew it was illegal so she deserves what she gets for breaking the law" argument. To anyone who follows this train of thought do you really want to be associated with sunday8pm?
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Unread 28 May 2005, 03:13   #60
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
My point is that there seems to be a double standard for criminal sentencing in Indonesia. One which applies to muslim clerics who lead terrorist organizations which blow up foreigners and another which applies to foreigners who smuggle marijuana. I'm not impressed with a legal system where the later get prison sentences eight times longer than the former.
That is a completely different point, and one that is also completely irrelevant to the point I made.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 03:17   #61
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I have a very strong belief in personal freedom and individual rights which leads me to the idea that people are entitled to do with themselves as they wish unless it directly impinges on another individual. As such unless she was bringing drugs into the country in order to sell them to small children I have no problem with her actions. I have no time for flawed legal systems so I don't find much meaning in the whole "she knew it was illegal so she deserves what she gets for breaking the law" argument. To anyone who follows this train of thought do you really want to be associated with sunday8pm?
Fine, you champion the western view of human rights, and that is great, however, suggesting that it should be imposed upon other cultures is less great. Let Indonesia do as Indonesian culture/society wishes to. As long as people know what to expect, where is the problem? This especially applies to people entering the country, by entering, you are implicitly accepting the laws and accepting that you will be judged within those laws rather than your own or someone elses in a different part of the world.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 03:31   #62
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
Fine, you champion the western view of human rights, and that is great, however, suggesting that it should be imposed upon other cultures is less great. Let Indonesia do as Indonesian culture/society wishes to. As long as people know what to expect, where is the problem? This especially applies to people entering the country, by entering, you are implicitly accepting the laws and accepting that you will be judged within those laws rather than your own or someone elses in a different part of the world.
The concept of individual rights is not culture-dependent. It's intelligent-life dependent. It's a fundamental viewpoint on what people should be allowed to do. Perhaps there would be less of a problem, although I would still say there is a problem as I disagree with the idea that it's okay to bring up children in this fashion (we all deserve a fair chance in life), if there was an infinite amount of land in the world and you could go anywhere and set up your own society if you so wished, however that is not the case. I suspend judgement in as many scenarios as I can but certain assumptions are always required. I just try to minimise these.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 03:51   #63
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Re: Australian drug girl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schapelle_Corby
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:03   #64
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The concept of individual rights is not culture-dependent. It's intelligent-life dependent. It's a fundamental viewpoint on what people should be allowed to do. Perhaps there would be less of a problem, although I would still say there is a problem as I disagree with the idea that it's okay to bring up children in this fashion (we all deserve a fair chance in life), if there was an infinite amount of land in the world and you could go anywhere and set up your own society if you so wished, however that is not the case. I suspend judgement in as many scenarios as I can but certain assumptions are always required. I just try to minimise these.
No, it is not intelligent life dependent, you think that because it is taken as written in stone by your culture. There are plenty of alternative viewpoints to individual rights, one particular example would be Asian Values, and who are we to say this is wrong? When you are sat in a cozey life in a nice rich western democracy with all the welfare and employment opportunities you need, this is easy to see. However, when you have no food to fill your belly, you suddenly find your priorities are different. Suggesting that individual rights are obvious for everyone is very naive. People elsewhere have different values to you, just because you are unable to comprehend them doesn't make them wrong.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:11   #65
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Re: Australian drug girl

You mother****ers are as per ****ing usual ****ing up fairly decent threads with your dope headed rants about your crack addictions being a human right.

My original post was not about your heroin riddled bodies being denied their narcotic thrust, i fully agree with your right to destroy yourselfs

My original point was not specifically about the death penalty, i oppose the death penalty when it prevents 'characters' id probably get along with in another life from supplying you with substances to warp your fragile little minds

My original point was not about the abuse of Schapelle Corby's human rights as i don't think they have been abused to any significant degree.

THE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS TO POINT OUT THE STUPIDITY OF THE NATION OF AUSTRALIA IN JUMPING ON A SELF-RIGHTOUS BANDWAGON BASED ON CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

****S
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:13   #66
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
No, it is not intelligent life dependent, you think that because it is taken as written in stone by your culture.
And you only think that because it's written in stone by your culture which is a self-refuting horribly vicious circle and if you cannot agree that some statements have a truth value outside of cultural context you're going to be left spouting meaningless platitudes for eternity.

Quote:
There are plenty of alternative viewpoints to individual rights, one particular example would be Asian Values, and who are we to say this is wrong? When you are sat in a cozey life in a nice rich western democracy with all the welfare and employment opportunities you need, this is easy to see. However, when you have no food to fill your belly, you suddenly find your priorities are different. Suggesting that individual rights are obvious for everyone is very naive. People elsewhere have different values to you, just because you are unable to comprehend them doesn't make them wrong.
I would agree that individual rights are not obvious to everyone and that other people have different values. My point concerns what is the fairest approach to all individuals. You practicallly say it yourself in your post, individuals have priorities and values, not societies and cultural institutions. You give people the opportunities. You should not force your beliefs on others, but this is not the same as you should not stand up for what you believe in. Tolerance is not indifferent acceptance of everything, it's acceptance of the beliefs of others. In so far as they do not affect you there is nothing wrong with them.

Of course you can just disagree with my fundamental assumptions but I would strongly advise you to at least give them more consideration than you appear to be giving them.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:14   #67
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
To keep things simple I'd suggest those who questioned my previous response should read that entry. It gives a fair overview of the procedings of the trial and isn't just some media blowover.

Those that are saying she's guilty are doing so without knowing all the facts, nothing of what has been presented suggests in any way there is solid evidence that she is guilty other than possesion of drugs, and nothing to say she had prior knowledge of them. There is only her word against that of the customs officer (who I think is just trying to cover his arse).
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:14   #68
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
You mother****ers are as per ****ing usual ****ing up fairly decent threads with your dope headed rants about your crack addictions being a human right.

My original post was not about your heroin riddled bodies being denied their narcotic thrust, i fully agree with your right to destroy yourselfs

My original point was not specifically about the death penalty, i oppose the death penalty when it prevents 'characters' id probably get along with in another life from supplying you with substances to warp your fragile little minds

My original point was not about the abuse of Schapelle Corby's human rights as i don't think they have been abused to any significant degree.

THE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS TO POINT OUT THE STUPIDITY OF THE NATION OF AUSTRALIA IN JUMPING ON A SELF-RIGHTOUS BANDWAGON BASED ON CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

****S
No need for shouting my friend. Calm yourself and have a valium.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:21   #69
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
And you only think that because it's written in stone by your culture which is a self-refuting horribly vicious circle and if you cannot agree that some statements have a truth value outside of cultural context you're going to be left spouting meaningless platitudes for eternity.


I would agree that individual rights are not obvious to everyone and that other people have different values. My point concerns what is the fairest approach to all individuals. You practicallly say it yourself in your post, individuals have priorities and values, not societies and cultural institutions. You give people the opportunities. You should not force your beliefs on others, but this is not the same as you should not stand up for what you believe in. Tolerance is not indifferent acceptance of everything, it's acceptance of the beliefs of others. In so far as they do not affect you there is nothing wrong with them.

Of course you can just disagree with my fundamental assumptions but I would strongly advise you to at least give them more consideration than you appear to be giving them.
Your argument here is "it is undeniable fact". This is not the case, it is undeniably YOUR OPINION. That does not make it fact.

As for the fairest approach to individuals, you are assuming here that sufficient resources are available that individual sacrifice is not necessary. You have a community of 1000 people, but only enough food to feed 750, nobody volunteers to go with out, going with indicidual liberty and human rights, there is NOTHING you can do about it. If you go with a community orientated approach, you would end up with 750 people being fed. It is not always possible to satisfy individual liberty and human rights. Sometimes some rights have to be forefeit in order to stay alive. In these sorts of situations, individual liberty of the Western sort is unworkable. Community based human rights systems might mean that some individuals are far worse off, but as a whole, individuals across the community would be better off.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:30   #70
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Re: Australian drug girl

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Originally Posted by Tactitus
My point is that there seems to be a double standard for criminal sentencing in Indonesia. One which applies to muslim clerics who lead terrorist organizations which blow up foreigners and another which applies to foreigners who smuggle marijuana. I'm not impressed with a legal system where the later get prison sentences eight times longer than the former.

Since this thread has been derailed lets piss on its remains and compare penis sizes at the same time.

There seems to be a double standard in the US justice system between a man, like Santos Reyes or his kind who can be sentenced 25-to-life for the most paltry offence (faking a driving test) under the three stike and you're out rule, a system of law btw that the england of Dicken's time would have been shocked by and the concept of a presidential pardon that lets the likes of Nixon, Weinberger, Mcfarlane off the hook.

There seems to be a great big difference in the treatment of an immigrant who when trying to help his illiterate brother is ****ed up the arse by the justice system of the US and the incoming president absolving the outgoing president of any crimes he may have commited or any you know illegal shit he did around the world. Im not impressed by a country that has a banana republic type scenario where el presidente can wipe the slate clean of anyone who helps get him into power.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:34   #71
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Re: Australian drug girl

Nusselt, discussions evolve, and the discussion is still relevant as the points being discussed are points that would have to be considered in deciding if Australia's position is justified.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:37   #72
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Re: Australian drug girl

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Originally Posted by Nusselt
the concept of a presidential pardon that lets the likes of Nixon, Weinberger, Mcfarlane off the hook.
I believe that there is international law relevant to this that says you can't hold leaders accountable for the decisions they made during their time in leadership. Obviously, things like war crimes are different, but I am fairly sure there is something in international law that means that ex-leaders are often immune to prosecution.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:38   #73
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Re: Australian drug girl

im tired emotional and sleepy

go ahead ill just go to bed, ignore me



though i will quickly add for djbass, the prima facie bit seems to deal with the 'no solid evidence of smuggling apart from finding 9lbs of weed in her bag'
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Unread 28 May 2005, 04:43   #74
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Re: Australian drug girl

I am not too experienced with drugs, but 9lbs of weed sounds pretty solid to me.

Being more serious though, I don't know any specifics of this, although when I heard that she was claiming that it was planted, my immediate reaction was "why would anybody want to do that?". Unless of course it was someone trying to sneak it through by putting it in her luggage without her knowing, although the standard airport questions about whether you packed your bags, whether you have had them out of your sight etc. show that, if someone did stash it in her bag, then she was bloody stupid for giving them the opportunity (assuming it wasn't a 'conspiracy', although as I already said, why?).
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Unread 28 May 2005, 06:00   #75
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
Your argument here is "it is undeniable fact". This is not the case, it is undeniably YOUR OPINION. That does not make it fact.
My argument is that it's a necessary conclusion of my premises which you are of course free to disagree with. As I pointed out above if you're not going to accept some sort of base from which to argue you're going to end up refuting your own arguments.

Quote:
As for the fairest approach to individuals, you are assuming here that sufficient resources are available that individual sacrifice is not necessary. You have a community of 1000 people, but only enough food to feed 750, nobody volunteers to go with out, going with indicidual liberty and human rights, there is NOTHING you can do about it. If you go with a community orientated approach, you would end up with 750 people being fed. It is not always possible to satisfy individual liberty and human rights. Sometimes some rights have to be forefeit in order to stay alive. In these sorts of situations, individual liberty of the Western sort is unworkable. Community based human rights systems might mean that some individuals are far worse off, but as a whole, individuals across the community would be better off.
You seem to be confusing the issue here. I don't find it absolutely appalling that people die. It is, quite literally, unavoidable. That is a utilitarian point of view which has very little to do with mine.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 10:04   #76
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I have a very strong belief in personal freedom and individual rights which leads me to the idea that people are entitled to do with themselves as they wish unless it directly impinges on another individual. As such unless she was bringing drugs into the country in order to sell them to small children I have no problem with her actions.
yes, this is great, fine, and more or less something i agree with.
Quote:
I have no time for flawed legal systems so I don't find much meaning in the whole "she knew it was illegal so she deserves what she gets for breaking the law" argument.
but this is confusing topics. It may be wrong, and I agree that it's wrong, that she's being imprisoned for this, let alone for 20 years, but nonetheless she committed a crime in full knowledge of the consequences. Unjust or not she has no grounds to fight this conviction, particularly since her actions are illegal in her home country and indeed just about everywhere.
Quote:
To anyone who follows this train of thought do you really want to be associated with sunday8pm?
no.

edit: also, the link is broken, but wasn't that a woman being stoned to death for adultery? because there's a pronounced difference between 'losing your life' and 'being imprisoned', and there's a difference between 'having a type of sex the community doesn't think much of' and 'smuggling harmful chemicals (shut up druggies, this isn't really a controversial statement)'. Both should probably be legal, but none of the crime, punishment, nor reaction are the same here.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 10:09   #77
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Re: Australian drug girl

Surely the only grounds on which you could fight a conviction (if in fact you did what it was claimed you did) is whether the law is just or unjust? The fact that you committed a crime according to law book XVII chapter 19 fifteenth page paragraph four eight line third sub-clause appendiced accordingly does not necessarily mean you should be punished.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 10:12   #78
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Surely the only grounds on which you could fight a conviction (if in fact you did what it was claimed you did) is whether the law is just or unjust? The fact that you committed a crime according to law book XVII chapter 19 fifteenth page paragraph four eight line third sub-clause appendiced accordingly does not necessarily mean you should be punished.
don't be silly. those are the grounds on which you could fight for a repeal of a law. convictions and appeals are and must be emotionless things because otherwise the application of the law goes wrong (Princess Diana kills a man in reno, six months; abortionist goes over the speed limit, eight years etc).
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Unread 28 May 2005, 10:13   #79
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Re: Australian drug girl

I support retroactive application of laws.

"It's more fun than the sensible approach."
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Unread 28 May 2005, 10:15   #80
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I support retroactive application of laws.

"It's more fun than the sensible approach."
if 'being out in public without an ID card' becomes a crime i fully support backdating it.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 10:18   #81
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Re: Australian drug girl

In my spare time I write angry letters to the Telegraph.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 10:20   #82
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
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In my spare time I write angry letters to the Telegraph.
great, now i have you and the image of abe simpson at his typewriter inextricably linked. way to go man
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Unread 28 May 2005, 11:27   #83
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Re: Australian drug girl

At this point shouting: professor! lava! hot!

...seems the only appropriate thing to say to you people
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Unread 28 May 2005, 11:27   #84
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
You write two lines pab, and you manage to contradict yourself.
I don't see how individuals getting ****ed up counts as 'grave consequences'. It's like saying the consequences of licensed alcohol 'could be dire!' because people stumble into work with a hang-over on occassion.

I'm pretty sure that I've just retyped my other post a little more wordily, and I'm still not seeing it.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 14:00   #85
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Re: Australian drug girl

Back on topic for a second:

Quote:
...
Corby was arrested last October when customs officers at Bali airport discovered the marijuana in her bag as she arrived to visit her sister, Mercedes Blake. The officials testified that Corby had refused to open the bag and then had tried to prevent them doing so.
...
Some commentators have remarked that it is curious that Corby has won so much sympathy, while three other Australians who are on death row for drug offences in Singapore and Vietnam have won so little. The three are male and of Vietnamese origin.

During the trial, Jakarta requested additional security at its diplomatic missions after two bullets were sent to its Perth consulate with a note that there would be shooting if Corby was convicted.
...
A family friend, Glen Jeffers, linked the case to the Boxing Day tsunami and the deaths of nine Australian servicemen in the relief operation.

An Australian boycott of Bali as a tourist destination has been called for.
...
link
It's all quite bemusing really.
Quite an overreaction in Australia to be honest.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 14:14   #86
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Back on topic for a second:

link
It's all quite bemusing really.
Quite an overreaction in Australia to be honest.
I noticed that the three others were of non-white origin. How "surprising" that those cases havent gotten the level of attention...
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Unread 28 May 2005, 15:20   #87
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Re: Australian drug girl

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Unread 28 May 2005, 15:43   #88
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Re: Australian drug girl

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Originally Posted by Nantoz
First of, let us discriminate between so-called soft drugs (I consider them to be only cannabis and khat or something on the same level), and hard drugs.

Hard drugs are far more addictive and have a greater somatic influence.

When you after a time become addicted to heroine, cocaine, etc, you will need a lot of money to continue your drug use. For normal persons this amount of money will be quite large, and the routes to getting such an amount will often have unpleasant conesquenses. Selling your possesions, your family's possesions, stealing, selling drugs yourself, selling your body.
Not very pleasant.

This constant need for drugs will often keep your attention of other things, such as your family and friends, all that matters will be the next hit. Families break up, relations are destroyed, friends slip away.

The principles of autonomy are important, that is true. But people must sometimes be protected against themselves and their poor reasoning.
If society is to allow the use of all drugs, then IMO society should also refuse to take any responsibilty when someone takes an over-dose, needs rehabilitation or treatment.

Simply because there might be a demand for something, we shouldn't automatically try to supply that demand. Certain people want to make and sell child pornography - but we have to judge them and their actions.
Not all believes/demands are equal or worthy of support!

Should the goverment in your opinion be the one to make/grow drugs and then sell them through state controlled 'pharmacies' of some sort?
Money isn't everything, the consequesns would simply be too grave. Many goverments have rules concerning where they can invest their money - this often include production of land mines, businesses that might use child labour, the sex industry, etc.
But you are saying drugs are OK, because you think they are fun - atleast you think so now....
oh please...

in the first part of your post, you seem convinced that "hard" drugs automatically lead to addiction. Not a single one of my friends is currently addicted to drugs, one of them used to be, but she doesn't do them any more; the point is that the media portrays the idea that drugs are super addictive when they really really aren't.

If you actually looked at the figures for pretty much any drug except for heroin and crack (and even those ones would surprise you with the low level of addiction) you see an absolutely miniscule percentage of dependent users. Granted, it does happen, but its rare; there is no more need to ban drugs than there is to ban anything that CAN be addictive, gambling for example, or alcohol. Its nanny statism gone mad.

im not even going to bother replying to the comparison with child pornography.

incidentally, yes, i do think that drugs should be licensed by the government. The two most harmful ( tobacco and alcohol) already are, and those are relatively tame with regards of how much fun they are. The reasons i believe governments should licence drugs are:

-It would provide a safe, cheap supply for people. If it were cheaper, people would be able to handle their addictions. People addicted to heroin can actually lead a relatively normal life a lot of the time, they simply turn to crime because they need more money than a normal job can supply. Also, many drug casualties are caused because the supplies are impure and cut with dangerous things.

- Money, i dont really have to explain this one

-It would absolutely destroy organised crime, a huge percentage of OC is to do with selling drugs, and it would be wiped out overnight.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 15:57   #89
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Re: Australian drug girl

its not just experience with friends, i used to work in a drug rehab centre, ive done courses, read plenty of literature.

cannabis is dangerous, theres no doubt about that. But only for a very small amount of people who take it. The other fact is, how much damage does cannabis dependence actually do to you? There is certainly a chance that it will harm you mentally, and the tobacco people normally take with it can be very dangerous; however, this is not a decent basis for banning it.

One of the worst things about this is the hypocrisy, and the fact that criminalising drugs makes criminals of people who are otherwise useful members of society. The whole attitude surrounding drugs is a controversial one, but if all you are saying is that "it might harm you/cause dependence therefore it should be banned" youre missing some other points. Notably the huge advantages from legalisation etc.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 18:07   #90
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Re: Australian drug girl

What's that? Drugs actually may cause harm to people who use them? Who the hell was arguing against that?
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Unread 28 May 2005, 18:15   #91
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Re: Australian drug girl

i was saying that the fact that they do cause harm isn't enough of a reason to ban them, especially when the harm caused is less than most people think and various other things that ive already written about.

I dont think anyone was arguing that drugs didnt harm people.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 19:02   #92
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
if you break a law you have to deal withz the consequences. that's it. 20 years seems a lot, but if you are in another country its their laws that count, not you own standards. if there is no serious doubt that she really knew of those drugs, calling for boycotts and stuff really sounds somewhat stupid.
Yeah all those people who broke the 'dont be Jewish in Germany' law deserved everything they got.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 19:04   #93
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Re: Australian drug girl

its just persecution with a different spin
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Unread 29 May 2005, 07:26   #94
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Re: Australian drug girl

I think the issue is not so much that she's Australian, as opposed to it being in Indonesia, where due process is perceived as non-existent from this country, and people perceiving this as a slap in the face after the outpouring of support after the tsunami.

People don't realise that just because we gave a neighbour some aid means they should reciprocate with releasing a convicted criminal and undermining their entire legal system. Also, the masses have been stirred into a frenzy by the populist media (the newspapers are owned by none other than Murdoch). The more esteemed media outlets have been far more evenly balanced.

I for one believe she received due process. I think she was lucky to get 20 years. This doesn't make it right in any sense, but it does seem fairly lenient.

The more disturbing trend in this thread though is to bag out Australia in a futile attempt by a few Englishmen to convince themselves we're all idiots before they receive an oh-so-unceremonious thrashing at our hands in the Ashes.

Bangladesh isn't a real team
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Unread 29 May 2005, 10:31   #95
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Re: Australian drug girl

Im a new zealander living in aussie and have watched all the media coverage including the live verdict (on two channels). I also am a journalist so i have some knowledge of media etc.

Here's what i have observed. i cant be sure if she is guilty or not, only she knows that.

The media over here has given a one sided biased view of the case and pushed the fact that she is a 'nice' girl.

Her family and supporters have also made idiots of themselves, her mum especially saying things like "I hope john howard does something about it or Bush will make him do something". And my favourite "I know for a fact the judges wont be able to sleep at night, and i hope they live to an old age cause they will be bloody tired".

What the media and most australians supporters is ignoring is the fact most law systems (including australia's) need facts, and the fact is that she had 4.1kg of hydro in her bag when she arrived and couldnt explain how it got there. If a little indonesian girl turned up in aussie with that in her bag, i doubt the courts would believe her if she said it was planted there and had no otherwise evidence other than being a nice girl.

She may be the unfortunate victim of circumstance, and if she is i feel sorry for her, but she isnt the only innocent person whose ended up in jail, and wont be the last.

Australia has done worst in the past and knows it. The Aboriginal people had babies roasted by fires and other heinous crimes committed against them, and while Australia as a country has tried to put these things right, it seems to be very half hearted and the aborignal people get a terrible run of things. It also has a terrible record with refugees (see the Boat people incidents).

There is also the issue of Australia helping to invade a country with no evidence and then crying when one of their own gets convicted with evidence. There was more evidence to convict schappelle corby than there was of WMD.

So in conclusion, she may be innocent or guilty, but australia has no right to get as hissy about it as they are.
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Unread 29 May 2005, 16:24   #96
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summanus
The more disturbing trend in this thread though is to bag out Australia in a futile attempt by a few Englishmen to convince themselves we're all idiots before they receive an oh-so-unceremonious thrashing at our hands in the Ashes.

Bangladesh isn't a real team

Don't get your woolaawoolagongas in a hamalawoogona. Besides i can't remember anyone here following cricket.
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Unread 29 May 2005, 16:39   #97
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Re: Australian drug girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
Besides i can't remember anyone here following cricket.
I know JC and Pig have shown an interest for it in the past.


(Sorry to derail, but clearing up a query)
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Unread 29 May 2005, 16:46   #98
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Re: Australian drug girl

yes... pig accosted a random pilled up australian at 2am on london streets about the ashes. So i suppose that counts.
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Unread 29 May 2005, 16:47   #99
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Re: Australian drug girl

I think there's quite a few who are interested.
However I don't think anyone in England is taking the result against Bangladesh to mean any more than if we were playing a friendly against a county team.
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Unread 29 May 2005, 19:01   #100
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Re: Australian drug girl

Hmm, I think she is too good looking to go to jail.
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