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30 Jan 2005, 20:55
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#1
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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So, these Iraqi elections then
What happened to the massive wave of violence expected?
Have they ran out of suicide idiots?
Will a 60% turnout be enough to convince Sunni's that the election was fair or will they just bitch that they aren't represented (since they dont have a very high voter turnout in their areas) .
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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30 Jan 2005, 21:05
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#2
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
What are you talking about?
The sunni's are quite a small proportion of the country anyway, they'd never get the representation they wanted. Especially when the main sunni parties were boycotting it.
This election really won't stop any of the violence though.
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30 Jan 2005, 21:12
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#3
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Well it depends on wether or not you consider 20% of the populace to be small or not.
By boycotting it they will probably get bugger all rep as opposed to '20%'
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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30 Jan 2005, 21:13
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#4
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
The really important thing regarding turnout is how many Sunnis turned out.
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30 Jan 2005, 22:53
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#5
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Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Bet Bush wins it
~Vaio~
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The George Harrison of BlueTuba
Yes, I know he is dead !
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31 Jan 2005, 01:25
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#6
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
the election is easily the most important part of what is happening in iraq, but, ultimately, it will mean nothing, as the terrorists are sunni's who know that they are in the minority now, so can't have it their own way as they have for the last x years, and people from outside the country who are not eligible to vote
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lazy
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31 Jan 2005, 01:33
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#7
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
there are incidents of suicide bombings and other violent crap, but those did not stop this beautiful, significant moment of Iraq - i'm actually pretty excited about it
__________________
"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
Veneratio | Insomnia | F-Crew | Subh
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31 Jan 2005, 01:53
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#8
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edited for readability
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: for something...
Posts: 1,207
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
It doesnt matter how they turned out, you wil all cry blasphemy.
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31 Jan 2005, 02:17
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#9
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdeathstar
It doesnt matter how they turned out, you will all cry blasphemy.
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Do you try and project this aura of idiocy or is it just natural?
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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31 Jan 2005, 02:23
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdeathstar
It doesnt matter how they turned out, you wil all cry blasphemy.
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Shut.
Up.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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31 Jan 2005, 02:41
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#11
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edited for readability
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: for something...
Posts: 1,207
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
its the truth... you just dont like it then.
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31 Jan 2005, 03:04
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#12
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
If I called your mother a five dollar whore you wouldn't like that, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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31 Jan 2005, 03:44
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#13
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
?? - i thought they were 40 euros..
__________________
"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
Veneratio | Insomnia | F-Crew | Subh
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31 Jan 2005, 08:12
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#14
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
What happened to the massive wave of violence expected?
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Nobody but the media was expecting that.
Quote:
Will a 60% turnout be enough to convince Sunni's that the election was fair or will they just bitch that they aren't represented (since they dont have a very high voter turnout in their areas) .
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The Sunnis were never going to 'win' the election. Even with 100% turnout they still would have been Iraq's third largest group (after the Shia and the Kurds). They might 'bitch' that they're no longer going to control the country, but that was a foregone conclusion.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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31 Jan 2005, 12:57
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#15
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
I do not believe that I have mentioned the sunni's 'winning' the election but rather that they will be under represented (with potentially 0 Sunni candidates) and certain groups will claim that this makes the elections invalid (mainly because those groups were threatening to kill people who voted and shooting candidates) .
Its a self fulfilling prophecy really.
Has anyone in this thread posted that the elections are a bad thing Qdeathtwat? No.
Has anyone claimed that they were rigged? No.
Just because some (many) of us disagree with the basis for the war, the motives of your goverment and ours or because we have we have problems with the detention without trial and torture of human beings does not mean that we are going to automatically disaprove of Iraqi elections.
But then again I'm only an ignorant elist liberal socialst euro hippy pacifist scum person so what do I know of freedom, democracy and 'moral' values.
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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31 Jan 2005, 14:02
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#16
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edited for readability
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: for something...
Posts: 1,207
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
No, NinjaTwat, you claimed that they were going to fail regardless of how the turned out becuases the "sunis werent going to vote"
Yes, you are hippy facifist scum, but thats besides the point.
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31 Jan 2005, 15:05
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#17
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Assuming you just didn't misspell the pacifist or the word fascist (which I'm pretty sure you actually did) the word facifist (standing for for fascist pacifist) is your greatest contribution to GD to date.
How about that, your greatest contribution to GD was a typo!
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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31 Jan 2005, 15:23
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#18
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I play the double-bass.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,198
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
why just cant you leave this troll alone
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The music called Jaazzz..
Charlie Mingus, such nimble fingers
Droppin the bass, all over the place
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31 Jan 2005, 17:13
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#19
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Nobody but the media was expecting that.
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300k Troops and police on the street implies that it was taken to be a serious possibility and they were ready to squish it.
Plus certain groups were promising to wash the street with the blood of voters.......so I wouldn't say it was 'just the media' .
I personally hope that this means they have lost the means/will to fight a losing battle but fundementalists only become more intransigent and desperate the more they become out of step with their popular support/opinion groups.
QDtroll, if Sunnis dont vote they get no reps, if they have no reps they get no say in the new constitution. If they get no say then they probably wont ratify/support* it in the october (?) referedum and if 3 regions/provinces do not support the constitution it will fail. There are currently 4 majority Sunni regions/provinces .
Thus leading us to the reason why a lack of Sunni participation could be a big f*ck up for the elections even though they make up only 15% (I thought it was 20%) of the eligible voters.
Do I need to use some smaller words?
*Since it probably/certainly wont reflect their interests.....or it will be presented in a manner that does not appeal to them.
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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1 Feb 2005, 07:06
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#20
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
300k Troops and police on the street implies that it was taken to be a serious possibility and they were ready to squish it.
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I think the only serious possibility was that there would be some attacks--as there were. If they'd seriously thought the terrorists were capable of mounting a "massive wave of violence" then I think they would have been well advised to postponed the elections.
Quote:
Plus certain groups were promising to wash the street with the blood of voters.......so I wouldn't say it was 'just the media' .
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The same groups who promised to drive the occupation troops out of Iraq, kill interim Prime Minister Allawi and destroy the interim government, shut down Iraq's oil industry, start a civil war, hold Najif, hold Fallujah, etc? The media seem to think the terrorists are all ten feet tall; but if they actually bothered to keep score they'd discover that the terrorists promise far more than they deliver.
Quote:
I personally hope that this means they have lost the means/will to fight a losing battle but fundementalists only become more intransigent and desperate the more they become out of step with their popular support/opinion groups.
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They started out intransigent and desperate; I honestly don't know how they could become more so.
Quote:
QDtroll, if Sunnis dont vote they get no reps, if they have no reps they get no say in the new constitution. If they get no say then they probably wont ratify/support* it in the october (?) referedum and if 3 regions/provinces do not support the constitution it will fail. There are currently 4 majority Sunni regions/provinces .
Thus leading us to the reason why a lack of Sunni participation could be a big f*ck up for the elections even though they make up only 15% (I thought it was 20%) of the eligible voters.
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Does anyone remember that many of the Afrikaners boycotted the first post-apartheid election in South Africa?
Quote:
*Since it probably/certainly wont reflect their interests.....or it will be presented in a manner that does not appeal to them.
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There will be a number of Sunnis who will be in the interim assembly. First because not all the Sunnis boycotted the election, and second because there were many Sunni candidates on broader, secular party lists (Prime Minister Allawi's Iraqi National Accord party being probably the largest and best known).
Like any other democracy, I think Iraq's democracy will only work to the extent that the rights of minorities are respected. This depends, to large degree, on the Shia majority because the minorities won't have the political power to protect themselves (by definition).
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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1 Feb 2005, 07:26
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#21
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Dirte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdeathstar
No, NinjaTwat, you claimed that they were going to fail regardless of how the turned out becuases the "sunis werent going to vote"
Yes, you are hippy facifist scum, but thats besides the point.
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This is the first time I've wanted to give somebody reputation. I mean, REALLY wanted to give somebody some. Sadly, I've allready given you negative, so I have to do more to be able to.
And is it not quite hard to be a fascist and hippy at the same time? Maybe you should check your own views out before you start jabbering on about others? I think the AFA/ARA would like to check you out more than NinjaSpammer.
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1 Feb 2005, 12:58
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#22
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Tac, Im not gonna argue with your opinion on the elciton out come cos I think we'll just go round in circles with my pessimism and your optimism
However all those threats that you dismissed were all against hard/secured targets whilst polling stations generally arent..unless you deploy 300,000 armed men,tanks,F-16's and Apache's to defend them. For christ sakes they are terrorists/insurgents/guerilas and they dont take on their oppononents head on or they lose so claiming that they were going to stop the invasion was bravado at best,they did hold fallujah and Najaf for a while until they were essentially overwhelmed, they had been doing a bit of damage to the oil supplies and they were being visibly succesful and blowing large holes in Iraqi officials although not allawi.
As for starting a civil war.....well it does take two to tango and the Shias were not biting.
They may not be 10 feet tall but you would be a fool to simply dismiss them out of hand, especially if they did somehow take down that Herc
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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1 Feb 2005, 13:03
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#23
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Qdeathstart is GD's greatest comedian. Yes, even better than Theamion.
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1 Feb 2005, 17:18
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#24
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Nod is the Jack Dee of GD, only minus the funneh.
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1 Feb 2005, 23:00
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#25
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
Tac, Im not gonna argue with your opinion on the elciton out come cos I think we'll just go round in circles with my pessimism and your optimism
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"History does not teach fatalism." --de Gaulle
Quote:
They may not be 10 feet tall but you would be a fool to simply dismiss them out of hand, especially if they did somehow take down that Herc
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They certainly should not be dismissed out of hand.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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1 Feb 2005, 23:47
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#26
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edited for readability
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: for something...
Posts: 1,207
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Thank you Tacticus. Finally someone who can argue well has spoken for the "other" side.
However
Quote:
There will be a number of Sunnis who will be in the interim assembly. First because not all the Sunnis boycotted the election, and second because there were many Sunni candidates on broader, secular party lists (Prime Minister Allawi's Iraqi National Accord party being probably the largest and best known).
Like any other democracy, I think Iraq's democracy will only work to the extent that the rights of minorities are respected. This depends, to large degree, on the Shia majority because the minorities won't have the political power to protect themselves (by definition).
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Thats true, but even if the Sunnies are treated fair, and there rights are respected, they will still loose a lot of power, compared to what they had under Saddam Hussain, so some of them will probably never be happy.
Note: I ment Hippy Pacifist. The P and the F got mixed. Dont ask me how, but they did.
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2 Feb 2005, 00:04
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#27
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdeathstar
Finally someone who can argue well has spoken for the "other" side.
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Yes indeed.
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2 Feb 2005, 00:19
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#28
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
qdeathtwat? ninjatwat? hmm.. very creative..
__________________
"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
Veneratio | Insomnia | F-Crew | Subh
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2 Feb 2005, 02:02
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#29
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
Btw folks if your gonna neg rep on a politcal thread ya might wanna actually put your name and opinion where your mouth is.
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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2 Feb 2005, 05:25
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#30
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
uhm, YEAH!! whatever ninja said dammit!
__________________
"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
Veneratio | Insomnia | F-Crew | Subh
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2 Feb 2005, 06:22
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#31
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edited for readability
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: for something...
Posts: 1,207
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Re: So, these Iraqi elections then
wasnt me ninja..
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