Planetarion Forums

midge5 · 13 Apr 2005, 01:14

Backs: I Balshaw (England), G Murphy (Ireland), J Robinson (England), G Thomas (Wales), S Williams (Wales), J Lewsey (England), S Horgan (Ireland), D Hickie (Ireland), T Shanklin (Wales), B O'Driscoll (Ireland, capt), G Henson (Wales), O Smith (England), G D'Arcy (Ireland), W Greenwood (England), S Jones (Wales), R O'Gara (Ireland), C Hodgson (England), M Dawson (England), D Peel (Wales), G Cooper (Wales), C Cusiter (Scotland).

Forwards: G Rowntree (England), A Sheridan (England), M Stevens (England), G Jenkins (Wales), J White (England), J Hayes (Ireland), G Bulloch (Scotland), S Thompson (England), A Titterrell (England), S Byrne (Ireland), D Grewcock (England), B Kay (England), M O'Kelly (Ireland), D O'Callaghan (Ireland), P O'Connell (Ireland), M Owen (Wales), R Hill (England), N Back (England), M Williams (Wales), L Moody (England), S Taylor (Scotland), M Corry (England), L Dallaglio (England).

So out of them players what would your first 15 be? and are there any players you think were unlucky to not travel with the squad?

Personally I thought Patterson and White from Scotland were unlucky to make it as they had quite a decent 6 nations in a struggling team. I would also have liked to see Kevin Morgan and Brent Cockbain travel as well as to a lesser extent Colin charvis. While I can understand him being dropped due to his recent injury problems but Clive Woodward has seemed quite willing to leave more spaces for the English players who have been injured recently. The only other person I would have liked to see go was Cueto who would have had a good chance of making my starting 15.

As for Johnny Wilkinson, I hope he isn't invited to join the team later on. He is a great player but I don't think it would be fair on the others if after barely playing for 18 months he was just drafted in ahead of them. I would say he could also do with the time off to try and get back to full fitness without the pressure of trying to rush to be ready for a game. For similar reasons I also felt that the English players who had retired from international rugby shouldn't have been picked to go on this tour.

My starting team would probably be something like:

15 Jason Robinson
14 Josh Lewsey
13 O'Driscoll (c)
12 Gavin Henson
11 Shane Williams
10 Stephen Jones
9 Dwayne Peel
8 Michael Owen
7 Martyn Williams
6 Dallaglio <-- While I wouldn't take him now he is there may as well use him
5 Ben Kay
4 Paul O'Connell
3 Julian White
2 S Byrne
1 Gethin Jenkins

furball · 13 Apr 2005, 02:04

Suprised it took you this long to make the post

15 Jason Robinson
14 Josh Lewsey
13 Brian O'Driscoll (c)
12 Gavin Henson
11 Shane Williams
10 Jonny Wilkinson if 100% fit, otherwise Stephen Jones
9 Dwayne Peel
8 Lawrence Dallaglio
7 Richard Hill/Martin Corry
6 Martyn Williams
5 Ben Kay
4 Paul O'Connell
3 Julian White
2 Shane Byrne
1 Gethin Jenkins

We agreed on most of it back on Monday, so I doubt any of this will suprise you.

Shane Byrne is picked over Thompson because he's used to throwing to the Irish locks (yes, I know Ben Kay isn't Irish, but the replacement lock would be Irish); lineout ball will be vital.

Changes:
I agree with taking players who have retired from international rugby, the Lions is not just about the Six Nations. As a result, Dallaglio and Hill pick themselves, Back is edged out by Martyn William's sensational Six Nations form. If Hill isn't fit in time, then Martin Corry is an excellent replacement.

I don't feel particularly sorry for Scotland, they haven't been up to scratch in the last few years. The Lions takes the best of the best, and I just don't see Scots getting in there.

The mid-week team should be good to watch as well, Sheridan/Stevens are phenomonal talents in the front row. I think Woodward missed a step by taking Denis Hickie though, when Ayoola Erinle could have gone instead (uncapped English centre, runs through people a la Lomu).

JonnyBGood · 13 Apr 2005, 03:14

Robinson, Lewsey and Williams as the back three means that the lions will literally be run over out there. Robinson is a poor footballing full back and frankly I'd pick both murphy and thomas ahead of him. Lewsey probably still deserves one of the spots on the wing but considering the team he's up against I'd be extremely surprised if woodward picks williams unless everyone else is literally playing terrible. Personally I'd pick robinson there. O'Driscoll pretty much picks himself and unless d'arcy pulls it together dramatically over the next couple of months I'd expect to see henson alongside him (even though I think he's a mincing faggot who looks good at the expense of his team-mates).

Wilkinson should play at out-half if he's fit but I can't see how he will be so Jones will be starting on form right now. O'Gara might displace him but if you're going to play Peel at scrum-half I'd definitely try to keep together a partnership that has played together a few times before. Peel at scrum-half unless he's hit by injury. He's not world-class but the home nations are seriously bereft of class at that position at the moment.

Thompson is literally a joke of a hooker and if he starts for the lions I'd die laughing. It's pretty close between byrne, who's been fairly over-rated since last year when ireland's line-out was top-class, and bulloch but like nonentity I'd play byrne as he's used to throwing to the irish second-rows. White and Jenkins are solid choices for the front row but to be honest the front row's a bit of a variable as essentially you just want the guys who play best together in there. O'Connell should play unless he's injured but I'd prefer to see Grewcock in there ahead of Kay as I think he'll be better suited to the type of game the All Blacks will try and play.

In the backrow Williams fairly spectacular six nations form means he'll have to start. After watching lewis moody in the leinster leicester game recently I have huge respect for what the guy does for his team and I'd definitely like to see him in there ahead of hill. Number eight is close between dallaglio, owen and corry and that'll be one of the positions which is picked depending on form out in New Zealand.

Jason White, Chris Patterson, Brent Cockbain, Jonny O'Connor, Mark Cueto and Mefin Davies are unlucky not to travel. I haven't watched enough of Ayoola Erinle to comment on him but Hickie definitely deserves a shot at the lions this time around. On his day the guy can be untouchable plus there's a temptation to try and get as much as possible of the leinster back-line playing as they know each other very well (despite a lack of playing time together this year).

15 Murphy (Thomas)
14 Lewsey (Hickie)
13 O'Driscoll (Greenwood)
12 Henson (D'Arcy)
11 Robinson (Williams)
10 Jones (O'Gara)
9 Peel (Cusiter)
8 Owen (Dallaglio)
7 Williams (Back)
6 Moody (Hill)
5 O'Connell (O'Callaghan)
4 Grewcock (O'Kelly)
3 White (Stevens)
2 Byrne (Bulloch)
1 Jenkins (Rowntree)

midge5 · 13 Apr 2005, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Robinson, Lewsey and Williams as the back three means that the lions will literally be run over out there. Robinson is a poor footballing full back and frankly I'd pick both murphy and thomas ahead of him.

I was considering picking Thomas as Robinson did seem pretty ineffectual in the 6 nations, it seems most teams have figured are better at stopping him now. The only problem was that Thomas has been losing it recently, his speed is going, he misses more tackles and his positional play isn't as good as it once was. He is also holding onto the ball a lot more frequently when it would be better to pass, one of the reasons I hate Shanklin as he always does the same. If Thomas hadn't gone off at half time against the French with Kevin Morgan switching to full back and Rhys Williams the wing I think we would have lost the match.

As for Shane Williams, I would be surprised if he played as well tbh. He would likely be up against Rockocoko who caused him trouble in the Autumn internationals and is even bigger than the French winger who went through him a few times. He also probably wouldn't have as much of the ball or with the same freedom as he does for Wales as I expect the Lions to play a less open game. He still has been in great form though recently and I think it would be a disadvantage worth risking.

arbondigo · 13 Apr 2005, 10:29

15: Murphy
14: Robinson
13: O'Driscoll
12: Hensen
11: Lewsey
10: Jones (Wilkinson if he proves his fitness and does well in the warm-up games before the tests)
9: Peel
8: Dallaghio (Tough between him and Corry for me)
7 :Williams
6: Moody
5: O'Connell
4: Kay
3: White
2: Byrne
1: Jenkins

I was tempted to include Matt Stevens in the starting line-up just because he played well in the couple of games that he played. But as he lacks experience i opted not to. I'm surprised that Patterson isn't in the squad, had he been then he would've been my starting full back. Byrne gets the nod ahead of Thompson on the basis that he hits his man in the line more often than Thompson does.

Back row was a tough one to choose. Dallaghio has been immense in the Zurich Prem this season, but then again so has Corry in the 6 nations. I chose Dallaghio ahead of him because he's the more experienced of the two. Moody was awesome retrieving restarts this year, but he was sloppy at times in open play, giving away some silly penalties, but with Hill having been injured this year i've picked Moody.

Peel and Jones speak for themselves. Hodgson would've been first choice had he been on form with the boot, but his kicking was appalling. If Wilkinson gets on the Lions plane, which i reckon he will, and if he plays well in the matches before the Tests start then i think he might get the nod ahead of Jones. With Woodward being coach that becomes even more apparent. Centres have to be Hensen and O'Driscoll. I don't like Hensen because i think he's a primadona but he deserves his place in the starting line-up. Brian O'Driscoll, enough said i think.

Robinson and Lewsey on the wings, with Murphy at full-back. Williams is electric but Rokocoko in particular would just run all over him.

Richie987 · 13 Apr 2005, 14:08

15: Thomas
14: Lewsey
13: O'Driscoll
12: Hensen
11: Murphy
10: Jones
9: Peel
8: Corry
7 :Back
6: Dallegio
5: O'Connell
4: O'Kelly
3: White
2: Bulloch
1: Jenkins

Robinson's poor form doesn't appeal to me for a lions place, the rest is pretty self-explanatory....in lock i went for the irish combo as their lineouts and general work-rate is above all others. Additionally i think Bulloch is the only consistant hooker currently, although Bryne and him are very close together for the 2 slot.