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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:03   #251
Kurashima
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
All cooking equipment bears responsibility for the failings of it's predecessors in terms of cooking times and preventing the loss of substantial amounts of energy and time which might otherwise have been so invested as to end world hunger.

So the conservatives are right. The fault really does lie with the pot
Under a conservative Government , the pot will be held accountable for its actions, and its rehabilitation funded by a Private Finance Initiative aimed at increasing its profitability and reliability, whilst reducing costs by natural wastage.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:12   #252
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I wouldnt imagine he was standing on the shoulders of those who didnt actually discover anything...
Yeah, it's not a very good argument is it.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:14   #253
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
but doesnt that imply some invisible force which pulls the smaller object to the bigger object?
Gravity is a force.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:14   #254
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Does it really matter whether the method of causation involves producing a field, rather than extending tiny little arms and grabbing?
That's a silly distinction, as all forces are due to field interactions.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:15   #255
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Gravity is a force.
What are Gravitons? Don't they confuse matters?
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:16   #256
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
That's a silly distinction, as all forces are due to field interactions.
Why is this relevant
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:18   #257
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
hey I have an ireland joke.


Why isnt the cooking equipment hungry?

Because the pot-ate-o


whats an o?
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:22   #258
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Re: so, the english are raping again

I wish they'd call the higgs boson the megatron to fit in with the graviton theme.

Imagine discovering the megatron. You'd have to be ridiculously cool and possibly one of the transformers.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:22   #259
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
What are Gravitons? Don't they confuse matters?
Gravitons are the conjectured force exchange particle for gravity. We've discovered the ones for the other three fundamental forces.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:23   #260
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Why is this relevant
Because Perle was making the implication that a force was distinct from a field, which isn't true.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:28   #261
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
As far as I know, his parents were wealthy - they'd probably have managed to provide him with some form of private education. Not that I know how the German education system worked at the turn of the 20th century anyway - did state funded education even exist? Also, a fair number of scientists have been relatively self-educated (in the sense of not participating in the academic system to any significant degree). Not that it's particularly relevant, since I wasnt claiming that anyone reinvented the wheel from scratch (or that this is desirable).

In any case, it would be fairly ridiculous for the "average German man" to take the credit for Einstein, given the whole 'organised political campaigns against his work' thing. Pehaps as ridiculous as Britain claiming 'they' invented computers despite persecuting one of the most significant contributors to the point where he committed suicide.
This is a fairly pointless tangent, as, as far as I know, we both agree that it seems silly for people to claim credit for something they not only did not do but were not alive at the time.

Of course, for the purpose of this thread, we're comparing nations, rather than individuals, so social effects can be compared, but it still seems remarkably pointless because if history has an effect on a civilisation it's happened without anyone waving their cocks around about it.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:33   #262
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Because Perle was making the implication that a force was distinct from a field, which isn't true.
When people learn the word 'force', they generally do not get taught anything about a field. Later, if they find out more technical details about what is theorised to be causing forces (as they learnt the word), there is no need to abandon the original concept. However, when a normal person uses the word 'force', they do not mean anything even remotely related to 'field'.

There is a conceptual difference between a 'direct' and an 'indirect' force. Whether or not direct forces actually exist isnt really relevant here - my point was that it would be perverse to claim the word 'force' is inapplicable simply because you have learnt that an intermediary is involved.

edit: this is an even more pointless tangent than the above one though.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:43   #263
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Maybe people can be proud of the things they view as good and not proud of the things they view as bad? It's pretty difficult to evaluate a nation objectively throughout it's entire history anyways due to changes it it's identity and lack of precise knowledge regarding alternate outcomes (remember red alert where when einstein got rid of hitler many more people died due to stalin becoming super duper powerful? would that balance out the good things he was responsible for like the theories of relativity? do unintended consequences count in terms of moral evaluation?) As always the problems with these threads are that we become so emotional over them. Look at zar (first name off the top of my head) and his inane rantings in israel-related threads. Now I've got no doubt he's a fairly intelligent guy but the number of preconceived ideas, which are in no way affected by empirical studies, he has makes some of his posts ridiculous. This is a massive problem for a large number of people because our preconceived ideas also affect which sources we consider respectable, affecting which ideas we consider correct (vicious circle yo). This is not an argument for relativism though. The correct solution is the realisation of which ideas are or are not based on rational grounds. A lot of the time you can get away with not having to prove everything from first principles by resorting to purely pragmatic principles though, so it's not that time-consuming.

This has been a slightly irrelevant tangent and I expected disciplinary measures to be taken by MrL and the Forces for Great Reason.
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:45   #264
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
it still doesn't say WHY they are being pulled together ie. Why gravity exists, how it works
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Unread 20 Jan 2005, 23:54   #265
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Maybe people can be proud of the things they view as good and not proud of the things they view as bad?
What exactly does 'pride' mean when it's being used to describe your feelings towards an achievement you never contributed to? I know what people mean when they say they are proud of something that they have done, but I get lost when they talk about 'pride' they take in the actions of people who lived hundreds of years ago.

Dictionary.com again I suppose.

Quote:
7 entries found for pride.


1) A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.
2) Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.
1) obviously doesnt apply. The only part of 2) that makes sense is association, but I fail to see what association you have with someone just because they were born on a near-by piece of land to yourself. You could have pride in the achievements of someone you were close to (eg a girlfriend) or in the achievements of an organisation you were part of, (since then the pride is more "hey I'm dating someone fantastic, aren't I great!"/"this organisation is awesome and they let me join!") but this doesn't apply to your country/race since membership is automatic.

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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 00:03   #266
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Exclamation Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I wish they'd call the higgs boson the megatron to fit in with the graviton theme.
Wouldn't it have then been the megaton (or alternatively, the gravitron)?
Quote:
Imagine discovering the megatron. You'd have to be ridiculously cool and possibly one of the transformers.
In that case, I'm almost certain there would have been a Transformer named Higgs Boson.

And, as much as it pains me to admit this, wasn't it Galvatron?
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 00:03   #267
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Re: so, the english are raping again

The pride can be involved in being part of a society that created the conditions that enabled various discoveries or inventions. No matter how much of a genius Albert Einstein was he would have found it difficult to come up with the theories of relativity if he was stuck on a desert island in the middle of the ocean (of course then maybe he wouldn't have been albert einstein but blah). Personally I think that as long as you recognise the real extent of your "contribution" consciously choosing a collective identity if it makes you a "better human being" is an acceptable idea. It's similar to the religious scenario where you choose to do something because it makes you feel better (as long as it doesn't have a negative effect).

I don't think I explained that very well
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 00:06   #268
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Wouldn't it have then been the megaton (or alternatively, the gravitron)?

In that case, I'm almost certain there would have been a Transformer named Higgs Boson.

And, as much as it pains me to admit this, wasn't it Galvatron?
Always the Americans wrecking my dreams with their lack of imagination
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 00:52   #269
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
that makes sense is association, but I fail to see what association you have with someone just because they were born on a near-by piece of land to yourself.
you can say something similar regarding all forms of pride by ascociation, but still your teacher, mother, secret lover dictionary.com accepts it exists.

Last edited by Yahwe; 21 Jan 2005 at 01:05.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 01:47   #270
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
And, as much as it pains me to admit this, wasn't it Galvatron?
Galvatron (Leonard Nimoy) was made from the body of Megatron by Unicron (Orson Welles) to do his evil bidding, after Starscream rebelled and shot the badly wounded* body of his former leading into space from Astrotrain.

*after fighting Optimus Prime. Optimus died because Hotrod was rubbish.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 01:53   #271
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Starscream > *
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 02:31   #272
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Starscream > *
quite.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 03:37   #273
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
"A male doesnt really attract a female, he just produces an aura of masculine charm that causes her to want him". You certainly could phrase it like that without being technically wrong, but whats the point?

The word attract means (dictionary.com): "To cause to draw near or adhere by physical force: Magnetic poles are attracted to their opposites". Does it really matter whether the method of causation involves producing a field, rather than extending tiny little arms and grabbing? In some contexts it might be worthwhile to distingish between 'indirect' and 'direct' attraction, but there doesnt really seem to be any point here. There's no need to introduce difficulties into terms and expressions that everyone understands perfectly well,

yeah , you do have a point there. I guess i was wrong about that one. Still, I think the matter should be considerd more thoroughly.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 04:31   #274
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
yeah , you do have a point there. I guess i was wrong about that one. Still, I think the matter should be considerd more thoroughly.
that is all we seek.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 05:28   #275
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
<snip> I said that the empire was responsible for the creation of the artificial country of iraq, with three people(sunnis, shiites,kurdes)which have no bussiness of being in a country together.

Forgive my ignorance of the local politics, but this part of your argument is bugging me. You claim that the Arabs living in the region are perfectly capable of self governance in a civilized manner, yet somehow lack the civility to live side by side within the same country. I know you said the British did some things to enhance the natural animosity between these groups, but isn't it a characteristic of civilized people to be able to set aside their differences and be able to work together? After all, don't your own words aptly describe the petty nationalistic tendencies of these groups?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
National pride is a very stupid thing!!
(spelling edit)

Last edited by Lord Talon; 21 Jan 2005 at 06:06. Reason: spelling
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 13:58   #276
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Originally Posted by Lord Talon
Forgive my ignorance of the local politics, but this part of your argument is bugging me. You claim that the Arabs living in the region are perfectly capable of self governance in a civilized manner,
i never said such a thing. I said the damn english empire had no business going in the middle east and steal othe rpeople natural ressources,build nations and slaughter national movements


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
yet somehow lack the civility to live side by side within the same country.
oh really?? lack the civilty? how many wars did the so civil english people had with the cot and irirish and the french and the durtch??



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
I know you said the British did some things to enhance the natural animosity between these groups, but isn't it a characteristic of civilized people to be able to set aside their differences and be able to work together? After all, don't your own words aptly describe the petty nationalistic tendencies of these groups?
oh my god, petty nationalistic,
your argument is really weak. the civilized english people had so many wars witht their neighbours.
I find the implication you are making very offensive and shows that you have racistical tendenciies. You are implying that the savage arabs needed civilized english masters to keep them from killing each other. the same english who were fighting their own neighbours for centuries again and again.
and the same english who claimed to stabilize the regio, did everything they could to keep it unstable.


weak, very weak
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 14:47   #277
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Perle you enjoying your life within the EU? If Iran's "free" from England now why don't you go back there? Guess who fought for your freedom of speech...
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 15:28   #278
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well inciting religious hatred, like the Abu Hamza, and taking a poke in a funny way are different, at least with their intentions. If i were to make a joke about a Jew he might not like it, but the intentions were honest and no harm was ever meant. Completely different to Abu Hamza and the other radical Islamic clerics, who come here to spout their garbage about how it's ok to kill x y and z because of whatever they've done.

Yep, ok so it's freedom of speech. But there should be a law or something put into effect where hatred can't be stirred up, as in my opinion, most of the world's major conflicts are all about religion right now.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 15:49   #279
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Ok, India/Pakistan and the Kashmir region.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 15:50   #280
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Originally Posted by arbondigo
Ok, India/Pakistan and the Kashmir region.
That's not about religion, that's about the Kashmir region. Durr.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 15:54   #281
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
That's not about religion, that's about the Kashmir region. Durr.
http://www.kashmir-information.com/W...y/B2chap3.html

It's both political and religious based
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 15:56   #282
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbondigo
http://www.kashmir-information.com/W...y/B2chap3.html

It's both political and religious based
Quote:
most of the world's major conflicts are all about religion right now.
Great example then.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 16:02   #283
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Great example then.
Sorry perhaps i put it wrong. Religion has a say in most of the conflicts that have occurred in the last 10 years or so. More so in the aftermath than the actual cause of war. Bosnia being one, with the massacres that occurred between the Muslims and Christians there. Religion having a say in the Kashmir region, Muslim fanatics trying to incite hatred. And perhaps the biggest and most dangerous one of all, Bush being a fanatical Christian who can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters by the looks of it.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 16:30   #284
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Re: so, the english are raping again

i am still not entirely sure as to why perle's reason for posting here in the first place is.

However im currently at home and 'unable to reply' suffficiently well. Suffice to say when i return to uni and have more than 2moments to write a quick post ill reply properly.

but basically

your still wrong


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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 16:36   #285
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Re: so, the english are raping again

I think you made a typo, Jimbob.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 16:45   #286
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Re: so, the english are raping again

No, he put three 'f's in 'sufficiently'.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 21:27   #287
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbondigo
Perle you enjoying your life within the EU? If Iran's "free" from England now why don't you go back there? Guess who fought for your freedom of speech...
yes, I am enjoying my life within the EU. The reason for this is, that my entire family had leave Iran because my parents were in danger. Whe the iranian people finally were able to kick the tyran reza Pahlavi out for good in 1979(we tried once in 1952 or 53, unfortunately he was brought back by the west) , Iran was finally becoming the independent nation, a nation that wasnt robbed by the west. Unfortunately, the england,france and the Usa had a joker waiting in paris. To prevent an imaginery communistical threat taking over in Iran, the damn western powers meddled again in my country and flew in the ultra clergy by the name of Khomeini. The man installed an ultra islamic state and slaughtered 100000 iranians in one month. His rgime is still ruling in Iran and makes the life of th eiranian people very very difficult. Thank you for meddling in our country again, thank you
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 21:43   #288
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Originally Posted by JammyJim
i am still not entirely sure as to why perle's reason for posting here in the first place is.

i can tell you why.

The english went down there(1919), created an unstable nation of iraq, played out the different ehnical and religious groups against each other, killed thousands of people who were fighting for their freedom against the brutal invaders(1941), stole their oil for over 40 years(1919-1958), then left the country, sold weapons for oil to the dictators ruling the country(1958-80), delivered weapons to both sides during the war against iran(1980-1988))bombed the country and laid a siege on it for 12 years(1991-2003), then invaded(2003-2005) and occupied it until today. And during the occupation, we can see english soldiers having fun playing sex games with iraqee prisoners and kicking them in the head while their are crawling on the ground in their own blood.

And to top it all, someonelike you says: hey, im so proud of british history. we are so great, we brought civilisation to world.


Look at what you have done to one country ,on the list of so many countries who have suffered under english oppression, alone. and this shit is going on right now. not in the past. right now, your country is occupying iraq. not in some distant past.


be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Last edited by Perle; 21 Jan 2005 at 22:15.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 21:50   #289
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
And to top it all, a prick like you says: hey, im so proud of british history. we are so great, we brought civilisation to world.
I'd consider being slightly more respectful. Perhaps you do not agree with what JammyJim has said, perhaps you would go as far as saying you disliked him, but you should still have basic manners when speaking with him.

This isn't simply because he is the forum admin, it's simply because even internet based messaging boards must work on a basis of respect. You've seen the responses you've had so far - this is mostly because of invalid and poorly constructed arguments. However, had I made the same arguments but in the commonly accepted manner whilst being respectful to people and accepting their opinions and counter arguments, I guarantee I wouldn't be in your current position.

I've been here a long time, as have most of the regulars who post here - none of us would ever consider responding to another user in that manner - especially someone like JammyJim, who actually does hold a great deal of respect here due to his posts and personality.

I'd suggest you re-evaluate your style of posting and come back then, before you find your account banned for personal attacks.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 21:52   #290
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
And during the occupation, we can see english soldiers having fun playing sex games with iraqee prisoners and kicking them in the head while their are crawling on the ground in their own blood.
You seem to be forgetting the Americans involved in these pictures, Lynne England was it and that guy who just got put in jail for his part. From what i've heard the kicks and punches in the pictures were simulated, that's not to say that they never happened. And the "blood" in those pictures is water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
And to top it all, a prick like you says: hey, im so proud of british history. we are so great, we brought civilisation to world.
I'm proud of our history, just like most Brits. Live with it Perle.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:07   #291
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Re: so, the english are raping again

So you would support the US invading Iran and deposing Khomeini and installing a democracy?

Or do you support the current method of economic sanctions against Iran as a means of coercion to weaken or tame the current goverment and potentionally allow a homegrown solution?


Would agree with France and Russia's decision to aid Iran in obtaining nuclear power to supply electricity to its population or do you find yourself more with the Americans in believing that it is not technology that should be allowed into the hands of the current Iranian theocracy?
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:10   #292
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Re: so, the english are raping again

What he wants is the west to build a time machine and go back and wipe themselves from the face of the earth.



PS Uh oh temporal paradox
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:13   #293
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
yes, I am enjoying my life within the EU. The reason for this is, that my entire family had leave Iran because my parents were in danger. Whe the iranian people finally were able to kick the tyran reza Pahlavi out for good in 1979(we tried once in 1952 or 53, unfortunately he was brought back by the west) , Iran was finally becoming the independent nation, a nation that wasnt robbed by the west. Unfortunately, the england,france and the Usa had a joker waiting in paris. To prevent an imaginery communistical threat taking over in Iran, the damn western powers meddled again in my country and flew in the ultra clergy by the name of Khomeini. The man installed an ultra islamic state and slaughtered 100000 iranians in one month. His rgime is still ruling in Iran and makes the life of th eiranian people very very difficult. Thank you for meddling in our country again, thank you
this is simply not true.

Khomeni had been exiled to paris by the shah. after his supporters the shite islamic extremists overthrew the shah (while he was incidentally out of the country) he flew back to be proclaimed iman by the successful fundamentalist islamic rebels

England had nothing to do with it.
France merely let an exile live in paris which is hardly a crime
And all the USA did was then give sanctuary to the shah who would have been brutally murdered by Khomeini.

during Khomeini's reign relations between iran and the west fell apart. We certainly did not install him.

your facts are simply wrong.

PS Khomeini died in 1989. and since the it has been English diplomats who have started the long process of trying to get Iran to be more communicative.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:16   #294
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiddy
I'd consider being slightly more respectful. Perhaps you do not agree with what JammyJim has said, perhaps you would go as far as saying you disliked him, but you should still have basic manners when speaking with him.

This isn't simply because he is the forum admin, it's simply because even internet based messaging boards must work on a basis of respect. You've seen the responses you've had so far - this is mostly because of invalid and poorly constructed arguments. However, had I made the same arguments but in the commonly accepted manner whilst being respectful to people and accepting their opinions and counter arguments, I guarantee I wouldn't be in your current position.

I've been here a long time, as have most of the regulars who post here - none of us would ever consider responding to another user in that manner - especially someone like JammyJim, who actually does hold a great deal of respect here due to his posts and personality.

I'd suggest you re-evaluate your style of posting and come back then, before you find your account banned for personal attacks.


point taken, post edited.
thanks for the hint
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:27   #295
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
According to Alexandre de Marenches (then head of the French secret services), France suggested to the Shah that they could "arrange for Khomeini to have a lethal accident"; the Shah declined the assassination offer, arguing that this would make him a martyr. Khomeini became one of the most influential opponents to the rule of the Shah, being seen as the spiritual leader of those fighting his rule
Quote:
khomeini returned to Iran on February 1, 1979, invited by the anti-Shah revolution already in progress, and seized power on February 11.

Sounds like a man with the full support and backing of us evuhl imperialist pig dogs.


Mind you though I suppose I'd support a guy who could rule from beyond the grave

Ayatollah Seyyed Ruhollah Khomeini (آیت*الله روح*الله خمینی in Persian) (May 17, 1900 – June 3, 1989)
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:29   #296
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Re: so, the english are raping again

To be fair, it does say his regime, not him.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:36   #297
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Do you think such a regime could survive without him if it didnt have the majority support of the Iranian people?

In the face of external forces trying to topple or weaken it?


/edit in fact it appears it hasnt survived in that form

Quote:
strict Islamic law was implemented, women lost many of their rights, and in numerous confirmed cases, human rights abuses such as torture and violent executions continued. In 1980 Iran was attacked by neighbouring Iraq and the destructive Iran-Iraq War continued until 1988. However, in more recent years, the democratic political structure has led to the election of many reformist politicians, including the president, Mohammad Khatami. During the first decade of the 21st century, the struggle for power between reformists and conservatives over the future of the country continues through a mix of electoral politics and restrictions on civil liberties.
T3h wiki


It appears that now is the time for a young idealouge burning with outrage and a desire to mend his country to put his money where his mouth is and return to the motherland to heal her wounds and shape her future, so that all his people may remain free of imperial colonial capatilistic opression by the evuhl English pig dog scottish mercenary soldiers..
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 22:40   #298
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Re: so, the english are raping again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Khatami
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 23:23   #299
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
i never said such a thing. I said the damn english empire had no business going in the middle east and steal othe rpeople natural ressources,build nations and slaughter national movements
Fine, change "claim" to imply. You imply that those 3 groups (sunnis, kurds, shiites) are incapable of peaceful coexistence whithin the same borders when you say they have "no bussiness of being in a country together." My question still stands. Why not? Imho, a hallmark of a civilized society is its ability to resolve differences peacefully in order to live together. My assumption is that they should be able to. You are the one implying they can not. Isn't that racist?



Quote:
oh really?? lack the civilty? how many wars did the so civil english people had with the cot and irirish and the french and the durtch??
My question wasn't about anyone else, nor did I claim that the English were civilized. (and before any Brits jump on me, I'm not claiming they weren't. I am dubious about such judgements when looking at the past based on the values of today.) It was about the occupants of the region in question. Can they work together in a civil manner? If not, why not?


Quote:
oh my god, petty nationalistic,
your argument is really weak. the civilized english people had so many wars witht their neighbours.
I find the implication you are making very offensive and shows that you have racistical tendenciies. You are implying that the savage arabs needed civilized english masters to keep them from killing each other. the same english who were fighting their own neighbours for centuries again and again.
and the same english who claimed to stabilize the regio, did everything they could to keep it unstable.

weak, very weak
Wow, how long have you had this inferiority complex? I wasn't asking about English/European history. I prefaced my original post that I am ignorant of the local politics so I am inclined to believe that the Arabs within the region should be able to work together peacefully. However, you tell us that they have no business being in the same country. Since you claim to be Iranian, I am assuming that you are more familiar with that area of the world.

You can not change what has already transpired (British defining arbitrary borders, taking resources, etc.). What is the point of seeking apologies from people whose governments and ancestors from decades, centuries, etc. ago did these things? If you decide to obtain German citizenship, does that make you and your progeny responsible for apologizing for Hitler? Certainly people can acknowledge that past acts committed by their government and ancestors may be morally reprehensible and wrong when viewed though the lens of current knowledge. However, an apology from them is pointless and would not be heartfelt. Can you be a proxy and apologize for the actions of someone else? Imho, it is a waste of time to carry the torch of victimization over such past transgressions. When will it be time to move forward and get on with life?
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 23:26   #300
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Exclamation Re: so, the english are raping again

http://www.freedomhouse.org/research...tings/iran.htm
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