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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 18:39   #251
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Re: R65. Who wins?

BB you have us all rather confused, why don't you tell us exactly which round you are talking about?
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 19:42   #252
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Thats because you are brainwashed!
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 21:09   #253
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Re: R65. Who wins?

If B-Butcher is referring to 2 rounds ago (r63) then, having been p3ng myself that round, have to agree with him that Rainbows was more effective in that war than us. This could have been due to p3ng giving up quite early and going inactive since their full Terr DE strat was worthless vs the BF xan. I remember you being awol for the last 14 days that round Krypton so maybe you missed it. I exiled into your galaxy if you remember. I'm not saying Bows beat p3ng but they had less members and carried their top player into top 5 (or maybe 3rd?) which was a nice accomplishment.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 22:49   #254
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
Yesterday ult were being escorted by random out of tag planets, hr, heroes, ast. If you can't break us alone and need to rely on hr and heroes to escort you then this is a sad day for Ultores. Faceless stand alone, we don't need support tags. Like you using ast as a spill over for ult. Planets with only xan fi that you use to crash on your enemies and defend with oot. It's just a bit sad.
hello. HEROES here. I dont escort ult....but there is a raid...so i attack on it. I don't pull to let ult land. Does that still count as escorting? Did I mention I'm #1 roided and top 5 roider of the round?

I don't get def, i cant wake up to send def, so i dont play in a serious tag. I don't see anything wrong with that.....Oh and I did try to play the exact same style in FL....and got kicked.

So wtf is your point?
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 23:09   #255
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Hello, Astatores here. Yeah, I def Ult. If you don't like it, bite me. 1 alliance was dumb enough to kick me for not playing the race they wanted me to *waves to munkee* So I found somewhere else to go. We're allied to Ult and help them in war. Kinda like ND, p3ng, Faceless, etc all helped each other in the war vs Ult. You have people across multiple tags helping, they have people across multiple tags helping, I don't see an issue here. In tag or allied, I've been a def planet for many rounds now, and people seem to always have an issue with it.

You'd think with as much as the community contributes to people hating this game/quitting you all woulda learned not to whine about peoples play styles or call it cheating. Sheesh, make a brother want to play WoW again, and thats saying something.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 23:30   #256
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
We're allied to Ult and help them in war. Kinda like ND, p3ng, Faceless, etc all helped each other in the war vs Ult. You have people across multiple tags helping, they have people across multiple tags helping, I don't see an issue here.
Everyone saying anything about Astatores etc. here are replying to ppl saying it's an issue that tags ally.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 00:01   #257
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Re: R65. Who wins?

I think Raven's wording was poor. I dont think it is what we would normally consider 'escorting' that he was talking about (I certainly have not seen any of it on p3n) but rather the willingness of the 'support' tags to crash value to help ult by killing fl or p3n value.
That said since p3n has been showing itself willing to crash value to kill ult value (at least where it is near equal) over the last few days since we dropped out of contention I am not sure what the difference is. While in the short term a planet on the other side that is not counting for the main tag crashing and killing some of your value is bad in the long term it is good - a smaller total force arrayed against you. I don't really see the objection.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 10:29   #258
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Bows get smashed because they pick the wrong side, when infact they dont even need to be on a side to start with. Ask cr0 or green_cat how many times I've told them that they dont need to be involved in wars. Yet, without hesitation they end up jumping on the bandwagon when p3ng gets incoming and then wonder why we turn out attention to them later on once we have our main war sorted out.
In my (limited) experience with doing politics, RainbowS was uniquely sensitive to getting incs. We'd raid a gal with 3 bows planets in it at tick 300, and they'd instantly hit back a fortress, and sometimes a second one. That's their good right, of course, but most of the time, that's not exactly the most effective strategy.

No attempts at communication either. Often the best way to deal with mounting hostilities is just to talk to the other side. A simple "hey, if you continue giving us a lot of incs, we'll be forced to conclude you're targetting us deliberately" is often all it takes. 95% of wars do not pay off, and alliances are usually not looking for a fight. And when they are, the response to a line like the above will make that abundantly clear.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 10:52   #259
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Re: R65. Who wins?

It's actually all down to bad political luck!
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 10:57   #260
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by NastyNick View Post
If B-Butcher is referring to 2 rounds ago (r63) then, having been p3ng myself that round, have to agree with him that Rainbows was more effective in that war than us. This could have been due to p3ng giving up quite early and going inactive since their full Terr DE strat was worthless vs the BF xan. I remember you being awol for the last 14 days that round Krypton so maybe you missed it. I exiled into your galaxy if you remember. I'm not saying Bows beat p3ng but they had less members and carried their top player into top 5 (or maybe 3rd?) which was a nice accomplishment.
I do remember the round you are speaking of and yes our effectiveness was limited because of the strategy we had. We were fighting with BF I believe and they had a majority Xan/Etd strategy...in fact most of the universe picked that strategy as it was so overpowered. And I think most of our members had stopped playing by tick 500 if I remember rightly?

But despite being handcuffed and inactive, they didn't have the upper hand. It was more of a stalemate.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 11:00   #261
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
Hello, Astatores here. Yeah, I def Ult. If you don't like it, bite me. 1 alliance was dumb enough to kick me for not playing the race they wanted me to *waves to munkee* So I found somewhere else to go. We're allied to Ult and help them in war. Kinda like ND, p3ng, Faceless, etc all helped each other in the war vs Ult. You have people across multiple tags helping, they have people across multiple tags helping, I don't see an issue here. In tag or allied, I've been a def planet for many rounds now, and people seem to always have an issue with it.

You'd think with as much as the community contributes to people hating this game/quitting you all woulda learned not to whine about peoples play styles or call it cheating. Sheesh, make a brother want to play WoW again, and thats saying something.
Kicked...or just left the p3nguins telegram channel without discussion or saying what you wanted to play...the same thing I guess!
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 11:36   #262
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
No attempts at communication either. Often the best way to deal with mounting hostilities is just to talk to the other side. A simple "hey, if you continue giving us a lot of incs, we'll be forced to conclude you're targetting us deliberately" is often all it takes. 95% of wars do not pay off, and alliances are usually not looking for a fight. And when they are, the response to a line like the above will make that abundantly clear.
http://snag.gy/v30Uq.jpg

Had many of these conversations with bows over the years and couldn't agree more with your lack of communication comment. You hit a gal, they decide to ptarget. You then talk to them as to why its happening and they say you are targeting them. Most often before you even have their full coords to know you are even hitting their gals.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 11:59   #263
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
I do remember the round you are speaking of and yes our effectiveness was limited because of the strategy we had. We were fighting with BF I believe and they had a majority Xan/Etd strategy...in fact most of the universe picked that strategy as it was so overpowered. And I think most of our members had stopped playing by tick 500 if I remember rightly?

But despite being handcuffed and inactive, they didn't have the upper hand. It was more of a stalemate.
BowS always had the upper hand untill your friends, ND, joined in because you couldnt fight BowS alone even you had the bigger tag with more members and value at the time.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 12:58   #264
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Re: R65. Who wins?

erm no. Playing against 20 people with a strategy that failed is not something to brag about, but if it helps you sleep and keeps you off the forums...great!
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 14:09   #265
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Looks like it will be an interesting finish.

6 mill difference in top 4 and CT got a huge roid lead.

At the moment I would bet on CT coming from behind and wins this round. Will be a great comback after having an anonymous rank all round.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 14:11   #266
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Re: R65. Who wins?

That's not a comeback. And in any case, CT traditionally leak roids like a sieve. One night of incs, -12k roids, and they're out. And if we ignore politics for a moment, that's an attractive prospect for all other alliances shooting for #1.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 14:30   #267
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
That's not a comeback. And in any case, CT traditionally leak roids like a sieve. One night of incs, -12k roids, and they're out. And if we ignore politics for a moment, that's an attractive prospect for all other alliances shooting for #1.
So if you are a football club that does worse then expected, like Chelsea this season. If they went on to win the league it would be considered a comeback even tough they've done bad all season.

Comback is: a return by a well-known person, especially an entertainer or sports player, to the activity in which they have formerly been successful.

Also who would find time to attack CT now?
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 14:41   #268
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Re: R65. Who wins?

p3n will remain loyal to its allies
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 14:45   #269
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
Also who would find time to attack CT now?
I did say 'ignore politics for a moment'.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 15:12   #270
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandvold
So if you are a football club that does worse then expected, like Chelsea this season. If they went on to win the league it would be considered a comeback even tough they've done bad all season.

Comback is: a return by a well-known person, especially an entertainer or sports player, to the activity in which they have formerly been successful.

Also who would find time to attack CT now?
Chelsea were expected to do well, CT were expected to well.... be part of the block and cruise in to a solid 4th place..
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 15:23   #271
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
That's not a comeback. And in any case, CT traditionally leak roids like a sieve. One night of incs, -12k roids, and they're out. And if we ignore politics for a moment, that's an attractive prospect for all other alliances shooting for #1.
I thought that alliance to be p3nguins traditionally
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 16:04   #272
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Back in my day, DCs would have to chisel IRC highlights out of solid granite tablets, then deliver them to the players in person. Going uphill both ways!
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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
Luxury!
You forgot the most important aspect of DCing back in those days....having the scheduled backup of the server. Also how it would take the universe noticeable time to tick for all the planets. I remember the warfrigate of r3 and how OP it was and if you threw enough WF as defense it would cover.

Fun good times where alliances could have private wars even though furgion dominated the early rounds with challengers struggling.

There were so many bots running around IRC back then too.
*sniff*sniff*good times

Anyways...back to original topic.
I have never been in ult but I have interacted with them on several levels for numerous rounds with them. Yeah ult seems like a powerhouse and an unstoppable beast but they are not really that much different then any other alliance. They have 2 key things that separate them and I guess not many people have picked up on it or dont really believe it.

1- they have very very dedicated DC, HC, BC. They work hard and dont get burned out and they also rotate to take breaks. This is very important but is only about 10% of the alliance. The rest are average players which I will address in point 2. There are just as good people in other alliance namely Arc, Raven, Shaz, CK, dybi (when he isnt crashing and playing for real =) ), irvine, etc... (way too many to list). Any one of those can lead an alliance or be the cornerstone of their defensive game play and ensuring they hang on to roids. However they will all fail for the most part....

2- why you ask....because their members are just not up to par.
If you take an average or below average PA player and they join ult, their game play gets elevated and they become much better PA player. I have seen that happen a few times. The secret to ult is that when people join they know they are expected to play at a higher level and as such they start playing at a higher level. You take an semi-active player and by them joining ult they know they have to be more active and respond to SMS/Calls for sending defense and other request and you will see them improve.
Just imagine as a DC, you get a 85% or higher response rate when you call for ships, you put any half decent DC with that kind of response rate and they will cover a lot of defense calls. You put a damn good DC with that response rate and they will be able to cover almost all calls to a certain extend.
Ult members are not that much better than other members in various alliances, they are just that much better at responding to calls for ships/fleets. Their own members police themselves, what I mean by that is that they will call out people that are slacking but now a days they dont have to because if you are part of ult you know you have to up your game and respond to calls.

Now granted that is not all. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that knowing your members is also vital and their sleeping habits, i believe it was agar3s. That does come in handy and knowing that person X will wake up in 1.5 hours to send his ships you can let that person sleep for a bit and still use his ships when they wake up. But I still stand by my statement that its really the ult culture that gives them the huge boost and elevates their game so much. I am not saying ult is full of average or below average players, what I am saying is that other alliances can compete on the same level as ult if they can get their members to respond just like ult members do. Quite a few alliances have competent command staff, its their members that are lacking.

Now let me go back to planning my trip while you guys continue to fling dirt at each other and turn your propaganda machine into high gear =D
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 16:25   #273
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
Kicked...or just left the p3nguins telegram channel without discussion or saying what you wanted to play...the same thing I guess!
p3nguinsYou have been kicked from p3nguinsWed, 06 Jan 19:56:59

Followed shortly by munkee saying in the Tg channel "You can play your solo spider tag"

And I especially liked the P note... "Some admin has removed you for whatever reason. If you still wish to be a member, go ahead and find someone else to sponsor you back."

But yeah, sure, pretend like I emo quit. Next you'll probably tell us all the 3:1 p3ng emo quit too lol.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 16:45   #274
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by RexDrax View Post
You forgot the most important aspect of DCing back in those days....having the scheduled backup of the server. Also how it would take the universe noticeable time to tick for all the planets. I remember the warfrigate of r3 and how OP it was and if you threw enough WF as defense it would cover.

Fun good times where alliances could have private wars even though furgion dominated the early rounds with challengers struggling.

There were so many bots running around IRC back then too.
*sniff*sniff*good times

Anyways...back to original topic.
I have never been in ult but I have interacted with them on several levels for numerous rounds with them. Yeah ult seems like a powerhouse and an unstoppable beast but they are not really that much different then any other alliance. They have 2 key things that separate them and I guess not many people have picked up on it or dont really believe it.

1- they have very very dedicated DC, HC, BC. They work hard and dont get burned out and they also rotate to take breaks. This is very important but is only about 10% of the alliance. The rest are average players which I will address in point 2. There are just as good people in other alliance namely Arc, Raven, Shaz, CK, dybi (when he isnt crashing and playing for real =) ), irvine, etc... (way too many to list). Any one of those can lead an alliance or be the cornerstone of their defensive game play and ensuring they hang on to roids. However they will all fail for the most part....

2- why you ask....because their members are just not up to par.
If you take an average or below average PA player and they join ult, their game play gets elevated and they become much better PA player. I have seen that happen a few times. The secret to ult is that when people join they know they are expected to play at a higher level and as such they start playing at a higher level. You take an semi-active player and by them joining ult they know they have to be more active and respond to SMS/Calls for sending defense and other request and you will see them improve.
Just imagine as a DC, you get a 85% or higher response rate when you call for ships, you put any half decent DC with that kind of response rate and they will cover a lot of defense calls. You put a damn good DC with that response rate and they will be able to cover almost all calls to a certain extend.
Ult members are not that much better than other members in various alliances, they are just that much better at responding to calls for ships/fleets. Their own members police themselves, what I mean by that is that they will call out people that are slacking but now a days they dont have to because if you are part of ult you know you have to up your game and respond to calls.

Now granted that is not all. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that knowing your members is also vital and their sleeping habits, i believe it was agar3s. That does come in handy and knowing that person X will wake up in 1.5 hours to send his ships you can let that person sleep for a bit and still use his ships when they wake up. But I still stand by my statement that its really the ult culture that gives them the huge boost and elevates their game so much. I am not saying ult is full of average or below average players, what I am saying is that other alliances can compete on the same level as ult if they can get their members to respond just like ult members do. Quite a few alliances have competent command staff, its their members that are lacking.

Now let me go back to planning my trip while you guys continue to fling dirt at each other and turn your propaganda machine into high gear =D
This is well put. A good example of this are the def whores, like myself. If I dont ask first, I will get a pm from usually 1 of 2 peeps telling me where to send all my fleets. They know Im there during incoming hours, they know what I build. After that, unless there is a change in incoming, I never have to be there again the rest the night. Means maximum effectiveness, and minimal time usage on my side. Means I can still play without needing to be uber active
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 17:08   #275
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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But yeah, sure, pretend like I emo quit. Next you'll probably tell us all the 3:1 p3ng emo quit too lol.
I wasn't around for that so I cannot comment
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 17:18   #276
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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You forgot the most important aspect of DCing back in those days....having the scheduled backup of the server. Also how it would take the universe noticeable time to tick for all the planets. I remember the warfrigate of r3 and how OP it was and if you threw enough WF as defense it would cover.

Fun good times where alliances could have private wars even though furgion dominated the early rounds with challengers struggling.

There were so many bots running around IRC back then too.
*sniff*sniff*good times

Anyways...back to original topic.
I have never been in ult but I have interacted with them on several levels for numerous rounds with them. Yeah ult seems like a powerhouse and an unstoppable beast but they are not really that much different then any other alliance. They have 2 key things that separate them and I guess not many people have picked up on it or dont really believe it.

1- they have very very dedicated DC, HC, BC. They work hard and dont get burned out and they also rotate to take breaks. This is very important but is only about 10% of the alliance. The rest are average players which I will address in point 2. There are just as good people in other alliance namely Arc, Raven, Shaz, CK, dybi (when he isnt crashing and playing for real =) ), irvine, etc... (way too many to list). Any one of those can lead an alliance or be the cornerstone of their defensive game play and ensuring they hang on to roids. However they will all fail for the most part....

2- why you ask....because their members are just not up to par.
If you take an average or below average PA player and they join ult, their game play gets elevated and they become much better PA player. I have seen that happen a few times. The secret to ult is that when people join they know they are expected to play at a higher level and as such they start playing at a higher level. You take an semi-active player and by them joining ult they know they have to be more active and respond to SMS/Calls for sending defense and other request and you will see them improve.
Just imagine as a DC, you get a 85% or higher response rate when you call for ships, you put any half decent DC with that kind of response rate and they will cover a lot of defense calls. You put a damn good DC with that response rate and they will be able to cover almost all calls to a certain extend.
Ult members are not that much better than other members in various alliances, they are just that much better at responding to calls for ships/fleets. Their own members police themselves, what I mean by that is that they will call out people that are slacking but now a days they dont have to because if you are part of ult you know you have to up your game and respond to calls.

Now granted that is not all. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that knowing your members is also vital and their sleeping habits, i believe it was agar3s. That does come in handy and knowing that person X will wake up in 1.5 hours to send his ships you can let that person sleep for a bit and still use his ships when they wake up. But I still stand by my statement that its really the ult culture that gives them the huge boost and elevates their game so much. I am not saying ult is full of average or below average players, what I am saying is that other alliances can compete on the same level as ult if they can get their members to respond just like ult members do. Quite a few alliances have competent command staff, its their members that are lacking.

Now let me go back to planning my trip while you guys continue to fling dirt at each other and turn your propaganda machine into high gear =D
I think most people with a brain that aren't self deluded about their own ally know this.

However, because of this every future round will follow exactly the same pattern. An organised tag 1 and a half that of tag limits will face off vs 3 half assed lazy tags that do bits in spurts, before the 1 and a half tag gets ground down and asks two even more half assed and less time devoted tags to help, thus resulting in the same discussion each round around the same pointless tag related subject
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 17:54   #277
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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I think most people with a brain that aren't self deluded about their own ally know this.

However, because of this every future round will follow exactly the same pattern. An organised tag 1 and a half that of tag limits will face off vs 3 half assed lazy tags that do bits in spurts, before the 1 and a half tag gets ground down and asks two even more half assed and less time devoted tags to help, thus resulting in the same discussion each round around the same pointless tag related subject
I posted something about this during the weekend, but deleted the post since ppl was just discussing things that had happened 2-3 rounds back.

Maybe it's time to try getting the discussion going again.

Ult is at the moment a surperior alliance then the others. However I think the alliances do a big mistake every round, which ulitimatly leads to the scenario you decribed. This round almost every alliance forted, and most of them had fort agreements with everyone. This is something Ult is great at and have proven many times that they benefit from such tactics.

If you think you can def galraids better then ult, and at the same time land more attacks i understand why you would fort and have a fort agreement with them. If you don't think this is possible and you would like to go for the win then fort agreements helps ult get their lead. If nobody except Ult forted it would be much more difficult for them, and i doubt we would see the early round lead as they got this round. So that some people are complaing that Ult is to good and it ruins the game when ppl play to their tactics is a bit stupid if you ask me.

Also like this round it was almost impossible to galraid without pissing an alliance of, and everyone was roiding the same random gals. Which makes the game extremley boring for the guys that end up in these gals.

I think it would be interesting either to remove bp's for one round (doubt that will happen), or decrease bp limit to two or three players and put two bp's together. Would create a new dynamic to the game.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 17:59   #278
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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I do remember the round you are speaking of and yes our effectiveness was limited because of the strategy we had. We were fighting with BF I believe and they had a majority Xan/Etd strategy...in fact most of the universe picked that strategy as it was so overpowered. And I think most of our members had stopped playing by tick 500 if I remember rightly?

But despite being handcuffed and inactive, they didn't have the upper hand. It was more of a stalemate.
I remember this round too. It was when you were working with Faceless to coordinate against us, and if I remember correctly we turtled up and stocked until eventually your block turned on each other.

From what I've read on here, looking at Kia and speculations from others on the Black Flag server, it looks like the exact same thing is happening this round. When p3nguins got hit, Faceless grounded a lot which left Ultores with more free fleets to attack back, and vice-versa when Faceless got blocked - I believe p3nguins went on a rampage on Rainbows.

This is one of Ultores' greatest strengths, they can wield a block far better than other alliances.

I could be wrong with certain intel, and if I posted anything incorrectly then please accept my apologies in advance. Most of my intel came from reading these boards and from various ex-BF's spread out in numerous tags.

Last edited by Clouds; 22 Feb 2016 at 18:08.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 18:18   #279
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post

I think it would be interesting either to remove bp's for one round (doubt that will happen), or decrease bp limit to two or three players and put two bp's together. Would create a new dynamic to the game.
i agree

mixing small Bps can work. dont mind testing it one round. if sux, just change it back.

the same gals stay on top ranks each round. the ones with HCs and secret deals =)
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 18:34   #280
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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I remember this round too. It was when you were working with Faceless to coordinate against us, and if I remember correctly we turtled up and stocked until eventually your block turned on each other.

From what I've read on here, looking at Kia and speculations from others on the Black Flag server, it looks like the exact same thing is happening this round. When p3nguins got hit, Faceless grounded a lot which left Ultores with more free fleets to attack back, and vice-versa when Faceless got blocked - I believe p3nguins went on a rampage on Rainbows.

This is one of Ultores' greatest strengths, they can wield a block far better than other alliances.

I could be wrong with certain intel, and if I posted anything incorrectly then please accept my apologies in advance. Most of my intel came from reading these boards and from various ex-BF's spread out in numerous tags.
I think it was more a case of our strategy being easily countered and unlandable so we were basically warring the mining page (as a terran should!). Then we got annoyed with Bows hitting us when FL and p3n were hitting BF, so we started hitting them leaving FL and BF 1 vs 1 with the exact same strategy (Xan and ETD fr if I remember correctly). This led to p3n and FL being frustrated at one another.

This round p3n and fl have been very friendly and not pointed the finger in frustration at one another at all, so I'd say you are indeed incorrect
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 18:38   #281
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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I posted something about this during the weekend, but deleted the post since ppl was just discussing things that had happened 2-3 rounds back.

Maybe it's time to try getting the discussion going again.

Ult is at the moment a surperior alliance then the others. However I think the alliances do a big mistake every round, which ulitimatly leads to the scenario you decribed. This round almost every alliance forted, and most of them had fort agreements with everyone. This is something Ult is great at and have proven many times that they benefit from such tactics.

If you think you can def galraids better then ult, and at the same time land more attacks i understand why you would fort and have a fort agreement with them. If you don't think this is possible and you would like to go for the win then fort agreements helps ult get their lead. If nobody except Ult forted it would be much more difficult for them, and i doubt we would see the early round lead as they got this round. So that some people are complaing that Ult is to good and it ruins the game when ppl play to their tactics is a bit stupid if you ask me.

Also like this round it was almost impossible to galraid without pissing an alliance of, and everyone was roiding the same random gals. Which makes the game extremley boring for the guys that end up in these gals.

I think it would be interesting either to remove bp's for one round (doubt that will happen), or decrease bp limit to two or three players and put two bp's together. Would create a new dynamic to the game.
I am personally all for the removal of bp's.

I think it could help the community to come together as a whole while also encourage people to help those of inexperience to improve their pa knowledge and skills rather than simply exiling them at the first opportunity.

Edit: I also think it could stop this nonsense where hitting one fort becomes a declaration of immediate war which seems to be an ever increasing case.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 19:03   #282
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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This round p3n and fl have been very friendly and not pointed the finger in frustration at one another at all, so I'd say you are indeed incorrect
Please confirm something for me, when p3nguins were 'out of the race', did you leave Faceless to get on with it against Ultores?
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 19:07   #283
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
I think it would be interesting either to remove bp's for one round (doubt that will happen), or decrease bp limit to two or three players and put two bp's together. Would create a new dynamic to the game.
I would be very happy to remove bps entirely for a round but I think there would be too much opposition to it so doubt it would happen.

As such the slotting of two 2/3man bps together sounds a good compromise. It prevents real forts (except for very lucky ones) as most of the time you will get two bps from different allies put together. At the same time it will still allow players to be with a friend or two. It would also encourage a greater mix of abilities in galaxies.

p.s. this should probably be in the suggestions forums. Slightly more chance of it getting noticed there as I doubt the pa crew read our political bickering!

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Please confirm something for me, when p3nguins were 'out of the race', did you leave Faceless to get on with it against Ultores?
This round? No we have continued to target ult (sometimes switching around within the opposing block - we have hit bows with fl's blessing) and cooperate including on things like fcs, occasionally sending each other def etc.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 19:09   #284
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Then we got annoyed with Bows hitting us when FL and p3n were hitting BF, so we started hitting them leaving FL and BF 1 vs 1 with the exact same strategy (Xan and ETD fr if I remember correctly).
It wasn't 1vs1 as FL still had Ultores in their corner. I understand your point that you found it difficult to land. This was because we were building a specific ETD CO ship (can't remember the name) which annihilated DE with ease, leaving our Xan/Etd FI fleets to defend against FL/ultores' FR.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 20:02   #285
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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I would be very happy to remove bps entirely for a round but I think there would be too much opposition to it so doubt it would happen.

As such the slotting of two 2/3man bps together sounds a good compromise. It prevents real forts (except for very lucky ones) as most of the time you will get two bps from different allies put together. At the same time it will still allow players to be with a friend or two. It would also encourage a greater mix of abilities in galaxies.

p.s. this should probably be in the suggestions forums. Slightly more chance of it getting noticed there as I doubt the pa crew read our political bickering!
Why is everyone agreeing! This is AD ppl should disagree no mather what. Yea i might get around to posting it as a suggestion. But the posted more as an observation and me posting a reason for Ult's early round dominance and why everyone need to gang up on one alliance.

*Edit
Made a post in the suggestion forum

Last edited by Sandvold; 22 Feb 2016 at 20:10.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 20:04   #286
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Etd co was not the problem it was spectre.

This round we have spent 2 nights on bows. One fully and one mixed with ult. Since tick 500 we have had ult only raids bar the 2 former nights I mentioned.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 20:21   #287
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Re: R65. Who wins?

ND/CT/p3ng/FL have exclusively targetted Ult for the past 500 ticks now. Even with them having a lot less roids and being in 2nd. I understand they are the alliance to beat and a tier above the rest but it seems this round no one cares about winning as long as Ult doesn't?

CT have a nice roidlead with 0 incs, FL is sitting comfortably in 1st with marginal incs and Norse is a dangerous outsider with only 35 extremely fat members and 0 incomings since pt300.

It seems to me the hatred/jealousy towards Ult is clouding everyone's judgement this round and that's what's really making this a boring and stale experience for all 500 players left.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 20:35   #288
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Etd co was not the problem it was spectre.
You could still do larger teams vs Spectres and kill our value. We only built a few Spectres to scare off smaller teams. CO was more of a problem (in my opinion) than FI or Spectre. When defending against p3n, we used 70% Etd CO fleets.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 20:37   #289
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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It seems to me the hatred/jealousy towards Ult is clouding everyone's judgement this round and that's what's really making this a boring and stale experience for all 500 players left.
Yet to hear anyone in ND p3n FL CT mention this round is boring. Might just be from your perspective.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 20:38   #290
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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You could still do larger teams vs Spectres and kill our value. We only built a few Spectres to scare off smaller teams. CO was more of a problem (in my opinion) than FI or Spectre. When defending against p3n, we used 70% Etd CO fleets.
You only needed relatively small spec fleets to make it pointless sending in the first place. Then with it being xan and you in forts meant that there was always ingal fake/real also.
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Unread 23 Feb 2016, 09:30   #291
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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ND/CT/p3ng/FL have exclusively targetted Ult for the past 500 ticks now. Even with them having a lot less roids and being in 2nd. I understand they are the alliance to beat and a tier above the rest but it seems this round no one cares about winning as long as Ult doesn't?
The strategy of the non-Ultores alliances has always been as follows: take out the biggest threat, then hope there's time left to take out the lesser threats before the round ends. As long as Ultores is in a position to win, they know that if they let up the assault, Ultores will surge ahead.

Even now, if Ultores does not get continue to get incs like they have been, they will win. It's not unheard of for them to gain 5k roids a night. One night without incs to take 10k roids from Faceless, of which 4k go to Ultores, and another night without incs to take 14k roids from CT, of which 4k go to Ultores, and Ultores wins, without even counting XP.

So CT, p3nguins and Faceless have no choice. They have to keep waiting for you to crack, because the alternative is losing for sure. This has nothing to do with hatred or jealousy. It's a perfectly rational strategy that maximizes their chance of winning.

The lower ranked alliances have a different rationale: they can't win, no matter what they do, so they just pick the safest strategy available to them: pick a block and stick with it. If the block wins, they have nothing to worry about. If the block loses, the fact that they're ranked lower and have fewer roids makes it unlikely Ultores would have the time to or incentive to retaliate. They'd be busy keeping the 3 other contenders away from them.
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Unread 23 Feb 2016, 14:20   #292
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Re: R65. Who wins?

No Mz, we're all big meanies for picking on poor Ultores!

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FL is sitting comfortably in 1st with marginal incs
Hah.
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Unread 23 Feb 2016, 16:22   #293
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The strategy of the non-Ultores alliances has always been as follows: take out the biggest threat, then hope there's time left to take out the lesser threats before the round ends. As long as Ultores is in a position to win, they know that if they let up the assault, Ultores will surge ahead.

Even now, if Ultores does not get continue to get incs like they have been, they will win. It's not unheard of for them to gain 5k roids a night. One night without incs to take 10k roids from Faceless, of which 4k go to Ultores, and another night without incs to take 14k roids from CT, of which 4k go to Ultores, and Ultores wins, without even counting XP.

So CT, p3nguins and Faceless have no choice. They have to keep waiting for you to crack, because the alternative is losing for sure. This has nothing to do with hatred or jealousy. It's a perfectly rational strategy that maximizes their chance of winning.

The lower ranked alliances have a different rationale: they can't win, no matter what they do, so they just pick the safest strategy available to them: pick a block and stick with it. If the block wins, they have nothing to worry about. If the block loses, the fact that they're ranked lower and have fewer roids makes it unlikely Ultores would have the time to or incentive to retaliate. They'd be busy keeping the 3 other contenders away from them.
Doesn't this just kind of prove that PA has stopped being either a game of fun, or skill, and just become a game of pile on? I mean, add to your conclusion the fact that people whine any time Ult has an ally, they are essentially conceding the skill gap and find their only pathway to victory is through sheer numbers. It takes out the fun scenario too, because they are in full on war mode within a week of tickstart. What happened to spending the first half of the round gal raiding?
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Unread 23 Feb 2016, 16:31   #294
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Yes, that is the correct conclusion. When the pool of players gets to this point, and after this many rounds have passed, it is only natural that the best players have gravitated towards each other. I'll quote Mz again from page two because he was spot on. Personally I don't see #2 happening, but it would be a pleasant surprise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
To keep them down so that p3nguins or Faceless can win. This is the what Chimpie calls 'unambitious' and on the face of it, he's right.

However, there's more to it than that.

What if Ultores isn't stopped from running away with every round from tick 0 onwards? What happens then? In my view, this would either result in them farming everyone to death, or everyone dying of boredom, including Ultores themselves. So either you spend all round keeping Ultores down, even alliances that have no chance to finish #1, or you spend all round waiting for next round, while Ultores wins this one with ease. I think the former choice is the lesser of the two evils.

I see three possible solutions:
1) Do nothing, Ultores stops whining every time they get mass incs for 800 ticks (ie, every round). The universe accepts that this is what happens when one alliance is so much stronger than all others. Status quo.
2) Another alliance steps up their game. If Ultores had serious 1-on-1 competition, politics would become interesting again. Lower ranked alliances could then use their ability to help one or the other alliance win, without having to block up with 4 other alliances for 4 weeks to keep 1 strong alliance down.
3) Ultores stops caring so much and starts playing worse. If alliances only have to hit Ult a couple of days to push them back down, like they do with other alliances, they'll shift their attention elsewhere pretty quickly, like they do with other alliances.

Let me stress that no one is obligated in any way to do any of these things. But unless someone does, PA will find itself in this situation again and again.
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Unread 23 Feb 2016, 17:01   #295
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
Doesn't this just kind of prove that PA has stopped being either a game of fun, or skill, and just become a game of pile on?
(....)
What happened to spending the first half of the round gal raiding?
And gal raiding is fun? Gal raiding and avoiding forts is what gave ult the valuelead. Its what gives them the valuelead every round, and its why they (more often than not) win.
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 23 Feb 2016, 18:32   #296
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Re: R65. Who wins?

<3 galraiding
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Unread 23 Feb 2016, 18:32   #297
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Wishmaster, how are the dwarfs doing?
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Unread 24 Feb 2016, 09:10   #298
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
Doesn't this just kind of prove that PA has stopped being either a game of fun, or skill, and just become a game of pile on? I mean, add to your conclusion the fact that people whine any time Ult has an ally, they are essentially conceding the skill gap and find their only pathway to victory is through sheer numbers. It takes out the fun scenario too, because they are in full on war mode within a week of tickstart. What happened to spending the first half of the round gal raiding?
I don't think it's fair to extrapolate the universe's response to Ultores to all politics. Ultores is currently unique in PA. No other alliance can take a pounding for 600 ticks and still be in the running for #1, nor is anyone else willing to be that dedicated to the game. Therefore, in order for any other alliances to have a shot at winning at all, they are forced to take drastic (and quite frankly, boring) measures like this. But only against Ultores.

In any round during which Ultores is not playing, or is just faffs about, or gives up halfway through, the playing field is/becomes more or less even. Conspiracy, p3nguins and Faceless all have a shot at winning, and they've had one for most of recent history. Under those circumstances, adroit political manouvering is still very much part of the large-scale structure of the game.

And note, the targetting didn't start until around tick 600. If anything, the other alliances waited too long.
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Unread 24 Feb 2016, 15:06   #299
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I don't think it's fair to extrapolate the universe's response to Ultores to all politics. Ultores is currently unique in PA. No other alliance can take a pounding for 600 ticks and still be in the running for #1, nor is anyone else willing to be that dedicated to the game. Therefore, in order for any other alliances to have a shot at winning at all, they are forced to take drastic (and quite frankly, boring) measures like this. But only against Ultores.

In any round during which Ultores is not playing, or is just faffs about, or gives up halfway through, the playing field is/becomes more or less even. Conspiracy, p3nguins and Faceless all have a shot at winning, and they've had one for most of recent history. Under those circumstances, adroit political manouvering is still very much part of the large-scale structure of the game.

And note, the targetting didn't start until around tick 600. If anything, the other alliances waited too long.
Doesn't that indicate an issue with the way Ult can sub in out of tag players to supplement their ranks whenever there is a crash? Don't get me wrong Ult has done a great job but you cant tell me you would hold up the same with only 60 players.
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Unread 24 Feb 2016, 15:16   #300
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperSix
Doesn't that indicate an issue with the way Ult can sub in out of tag players to supplement their ranks whenever there is a crash? Don't get me wrong Ult has done a great job but you cant tell me you would hold up the same with only 60 players.
When was the last time we subbed in a player to replace someone who crashed?
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