Orbit - The poster boys for failure

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Legator

i have to agree you with there......

wakey stop making all this fuzz fs.

I have not put all this effort over the rounds fighting to make the game a better place for alliances like Orbit just to sit back and watch them talk themselves into believing that bashing like this is fine because they are a training alliance. It would be hypercritical of me to do so after having hounded the larger alliances for the same actions and I wont just sit bye and watch. I will make a fuss andI will make suggestions on how to do things better and fairer. I would say I would even be willing to help Orbit out by spending an evening helping to organise their attack and persaude members to attack better targets but even when it comes to someone like me whom has built up a rep of playing fair I doubt any alliance would be up for that

Anyway basically as long as people are bashing and alliances take attitudes like some people here and support it I will kick up a fuss over it. If those of importance in other alliances or simply important people in the community want me to stop making a fuss you know what you have to do, start playing fairer and doing more to encourage memebers to attack resonable targets

[Phrazer]

Wakey, we take on board what you say but the incident that started all this was caused by another ally/bgroup hitting the same gal. If they hadn’t done then non of this would have happened. I can tell you that Orbit nailed two big gals last night, so this further highlights this as a one off case anyway, without the addition of the other forces.

As for your offer, I cant accept at this time on the grounds that you have singled out this alliance even though you have admitted alot of others do it as well. Bashing is not ok, we do not each that. Maybe the only thing we are guilty of is setting our sights a little bit to low and we will endeavour to aim higher in the future, with regards to attack targets AND alliance ranks.

[Smudge]

Listen to this guy, he has a hot girlfriend.

Not sure how this relates to PA, but it does.

[PoSSeSSeD]

Of course it relates to PA Smudge.... After all we need something to look at during those long nights and early mornings....

[The_Mad_Keg]

yeah right, PA player with a hot girlfriend??? or does he just have a very special poster??

tbh i think this issue is pretty much closed now, Phrazer seems to have taken on board what i think are very valid comments by Wakey and apparently has started to up the target size for Orbit, so wd Orbit for taking critisism and effecting a change, and wd Wakey for pointing out the problem.

Incidentally i think Wakeys reasons for posting like he does and as determindly as he does are good, he just gets a bit fanatical sometimes, everyone has faults, wakey just believes in what he does very strongly and has high morals, sometimes he can be a bit overbearing but in the long run the things he does and sais have a good impact on the game in general and he should be respected for the effort he puts in.
Im not asking you to like him or his long winded typo ridden posts, but take the time to consider what he has to say and the reasons behind them, they often hold good advice if rather strongly pressed, then take the piss out of him for being unable to spell 70% of english words and for tripling the avg length of a thread

Anyway gl Orbit and F-Crew with your training, both of u are doing something that i tried to do but tbqh didnt have the right attitude or patience for, and i admire u and all the other training alliances out there for doing what u do, gl to all of u

[Smudge]

Keg - go to the Netgamers Gallery and do a search for Phrazer

Then drop your jaw

[The_Mad_Keg]

hmmm a fair pair of puppies admitedly, bit of an old womans toothy grin though, but then im not exactly doing any better

[Smudge]

Honesty is the first step to recovery

[Phrazer]

ah crap, my missus is going to kill me

[Smudge]

Can I have her when shes done?

[Phrazer]

Originally Posted by The_Mad_Keg

bit of an old womans toothy grin though

Cheeky git!!

[The_Mad_Keg]

heh what did u expect?

[PoSSeSSeD]

Jealousy is a terrible terrible thing... Not that I am jealous of course...

*hides assasination plans for Phrazer*

Ahem,

Where were we ??

[GeenPorem]

Something that happened tonite made me realize that Wakey might be right. However... bare with me pls.

I did not recognise Orbit in Wakeys post at all. We do 4 waves max. not 5, not 7. Sometimes ppl mess up the LT and land in the same tick. We mail them and ask em to pull. Sometimes another alliance or battlegroup lands in the same gal. Both happened the other day. There was nothing we culd do.

As for picking on small gals:
Yes we sometimes do pick gals that are too small. This is because we do not like complaining members that its too big This complaining might be due to wrong fleet composition. I dont know.
And sometimes we target a small gal because of the inexperience of the person picking the gal.

Neither Orbit members nor the officers have the 6 years of experience that wakey has. And if F-crew or ne other alliance decides to bash Orbit for this, they do the very thing they condemn.

So i suggest that we bury the axe and Orbit will try and choose bigger targets from now on.

[Ron7684]

Alrite, forget Orbit for a minute. This is on behalf of my galaxy and me. Tonight, we have incomings from eXilition members, we are just grazing the t100 galaxies and eX is currently 3rd ranked alliance. Now, isnt that much worse? Plus the fact that i see more than 2 planets in my galaxy with more than 3 waves and more than 2 attackers on EACH wave. So that was just a comparison of what other alliances are doing.

[Alki]

where those members angels, 1up?? if so i see where they are coming from:\

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Ron7684

Alrite, forget Orbit for a minute. This is on behalf of my galaxy and me. Tonight, we have incomings from eXilition members, we are just grazing the t100 galaxies and eX is currently 3rd ranked alliance. Now, isnt that much worse? Plus the fact that i see more than 2 planets in my galaxy with more than 3 waves and more than 2 attackers on EACH wave. So that was just a comparison of what other alliances are doing.

Yes and No. Yes the actions are worse than Orbits or any other smaller alliances bashings BUT its in many ways not as bad as its expected. The top alliances pretty much play by their own rules and dont see bashing in the same way as those whom end up being bashed and as many of them havent experianced being bashed and have grown up playing PA by the bashing lower value players route they know no difference. The lower down alliances however know what being bashed is like and they have players whom are often new and are less set in their ways and are hence more open to new ways of playing. So when these alliance turn around and bash its alot worse than the top alliances bashing.

And yes making stand by not compunding the problem doesnt instantly fix the bashing situation but it doesnt make it any worse. What it does is has the lower end of the game start hitting above their weight thus giving people above more to worry about while reducing the incoming the smaller people get. AND most importantly it set members mindsets to play like this and as 'training alliances' this is vital as our turnover of members is greater than your average hardcore alliance and if we send them off up the food chain with the right attitude we are slowly but surely having an effect on the playing style of the alliances further up. The only problem atm is that it somewhat seems F-Crew are the only people over the last few rounds doing this and we only account for a percentage of players moving up the foodchain and it would work alot better if every smaller alliance was instilling a none bashing mentality into their members rather than a bashing mentality as the concetration would then be alot stronger

[Alki]

or just read my post tbh

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Alki

or just read my post tbh

They are attacking the whole galaxy, it kind of removes the "war element" a bit

[Alki]

you trust his intel 100%? seems to me some other alliance is hitting his gal and exi just hit the angels 1up planets and seemed to piggy or get piggied on those planets

[PoSSeSSeD]

No Alki - The intel is accurate.... At present that galaxy are 1 wave into their bombardment. ZIK's Piggybacking Xan's Ter's piggybacking Xan's... judging by the fleets it has been well organised and orcestrated. In other words it is ridiculous. 5 Doubled up waves on a galaxy just keeping their head above water in the T100 is ridiculous. So pls Wakey, feel free to hammer eXilition on the basis that Orbit's intel is correct.... You were quick enough to do so on Orbit.

[Alki]

stop being a joker, man i love jokers but i dont love you

[wakey]

Originally Posted by PoSSeSSeD

No Alki - The intel is accurate.... At present that galaxy are 1 wave into their bombardment. ZIK's Piggybacking Xan's Ter's piggybacking Xan's... judging by the fleets it has been well organised and orcestrated. In other words it is ridiculous. 5 Doubled up waves on a galaxy just keeping their head above water in the T100 is ridiculous. So pls Wakey, feel free to hammer eXilition on the basis that Orbit's intel is correct.... You were quick enough to do so on Orbit.

I did it to Orbit because the smaller/training alliances all needed it. I have played every round of this game and have always stood up for the smaller players and alliances against the bashings they receive. This includes having a go at the tactics of the bigger alliances on a regular basis which has hardly made me the most popular person on these forums (after all most of the time most smaller players and smaller alliances go and hide under a stone when it comes to being critical of the top alliances, probally due to the flaming they receive and the insults from the people they are attacking). And on the whole I believe ive done alot of good as we now have a game which is alot more new/small player friendly and which includeds many features to help the smaller player that I have campaigned for over the rounds.

And this is why I jumped on Orbit/ While it wasnt just Orbit that were guilty of it, I needed enough evidence to make an example someone and Orbit gave me that. You could have plugged the name of basically any alliance out of the top 10 into the post though. When you have spent the time I have trying to get the lower end of the game taken seriously and made better for the masses and you then see those people you have been trying to help compounding the problem its annoying and a post like this was needed to bring the issue to the forefront and to make the alliances who should know better than anyone, to buck up their ideas. Otherwise the work that myself and the other people/alliances that over the rounds fought so hard to improve the game is just being flushed down the toilet.

[PoSSeSSeD]

Originally Posted by Alki

stop being a joker, man i love jokers but i dont love you

Are you still here ?

[Tomkat]

Stop whining wakey.

You're just embarassed that Orbit are better than F-Crew.

[Ron7684]

oh, and also wakey. It was 2 alliances attacking that gal, not built up on one another by waves though. It looked like one was taking #1-6 and the other was taking 7-14. And can you guess who the other alliance that just attacked a barely t100 gal was.

Wait for it...


Wait for it...


It was you.
So i must say, get your own alliance straight before you comment on others that do the same, if not better (Orbit was lower ranked than u and hitting same size targets).

Oh, and btw, if i wasnt 100% sure of my intel, i wouldnt be posting here, so dont question it as an excuse.

[wakey]

Either your telling complete and utter lies about the galaxy being "barely t100" or your intel is completly shit.

Last nights targets from F-Crew were 22mill and just under 17million. 22Million makes them TOP 10 and just under 17million makes them TOP50. Any F-Crew member can confirm this as its still on the attack page, in fact if anyone wants to go and ask PAteam they can confirm it and I give them permission to disclose this fact

[Phrazer]

I really did think this issue had gone away, Orbit has landed on some big gals this round and we are proud of ourselves for putting some BIG Gals in Sandmans "top 5 bashed" list. Even though in the last few days things took a small turn for the worse we are still trying hard and we are enjoying the game so why cant u leave us alone, we have taken you message on board and set ourselves bigger targets.

We are getting on with our lives, why cant you?

[wakey]

Excuse me, LOOK at who re-raised the issue. It wasnt me

[Ron7684]

Originally Posted by wakey

Yes and No. Yes the actions are worse than Orbits or any other smaller alliances bashings BUT its in many ways not as bad as its expected. The top alliances pretty much play by their own rules and dont see bashing in the same way as those whom end up being bashed and as many of them havent experianced being bashed and have grown up playing PA by the bashing lower value players route they know no difference. The lower down alliances however know what being bashed is like and they have players whom are often new and are less set in their ways and are hence more open to new ways of playing. So when these alliance turn around and bash its alot worse than the top alliances bashing.

And yes making stand by not compunding the problem doesnt instantly fix the bashing situation but it doesnt make it any worse. What it does is has the lower end of the game start hitting above their weight thus giving people above more to worry about while reducing the incoming the smaller people get. AND most importantly it set members mindsets to play like this and as 'training alliances' this is vital as our turnover of members is greater than your average hardcore alliance and if we send them off up the food chain with the right attitude we are slowly but surely having an effect on the playing style of the alliances further up. The only problem atm is that it somewhat seems F-Crew are the only people over the last few rounds doing this and we only account for a percentage of players moving up the foodchain and it would work alot better if every smaller alliance was instilling a none bashing mentality into their members rather than a bashing mentality as the concetration would then be alot stronger

Are you saying its ok for big alliances to bash because they've been doing it all along? And since we're smaller alliances we shuld completely redesign our attack structure because of what you say?

1) The top 10 alliances bash people for attacks: You agree - The top 10 alliances ARE top 10 for a reason, maybe this is one of them
2) The smaller alliances should not bash ppl and when they get into t10 they can change the attack style: You agree - What may be the reason that the alliances like this dont make it into the top 10? Just a faint coincidence?

And i stand by my remark, F off and stop telling others how to play the game. If a big alliance makes up their own rules, everyone can and will.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Ron7684

Are you saying its ok for big alliances to bash because they've been doing it all along? And since we're smaller alliances we shuld completely redesign our attack structure because of what you say?

1) The top 10 alliances bash people for attacks: You agree - The top 10 alliances ARE top 10 for a reason, maybe this is one of them
2) The smaller alliances should not bash ppl and when they get into t10 they can change the attack style: You agree - What may be the reason that the alliances like this dont make it into the top 10? Just a faint coincidence?

And i stand by my remark, F off and stop telling others how to play the game. If a big alliance makes up their own rules, everyone can and will.

I havent at any point said bashing is ok, and it shows how clueless you really are to even imply I did. What I said is that bashing from the top alliances is more understandable and expected, after all thats what they have always done and most havent much experiance of being on the other end of it.

And I'm not saying smaller alliances should change their attack structure because I say so, I'm saying they should because thats how the games now setup. Theres been alot of people over the rounds whom have worked hard and campaigned hard to get the lower alliance/players plights seen/heard and that has seen many game design aspects, not least the attack and xp systems to be designed so that the smaller people can help themselves. These are things that have been designed and implemented to be give you a leg up yet so few even try to take advantage of it, instead perfering to continue the never ending cycle of bashing those smaller than themselves. Its this cycle which is one of the top causes for the games inability to grow in size, bascially the community is killing itself. But what hope is there when the very people whom should know the damage it does to bash take the "well they are doing it" approach

As for your "its the bashing that makes top alliance top alliances and lower alliances lower alliances" statements. Thats bullshit, what makes an alliance t10 is usually the members with the tactics employed being a side effect of the members.

When your an alliance full of hardcore players defensivly coverage is great, you have lots of experianced members whom are extreamly active meaning apart from the extream cases you have enough defence to cover anything thrown at you. This means bashing can work for them as it doesnt matter of the carry almost zero XP because they can hold onto large numbers of roids and make them pay off that way.

When your a smaller alliances your choices are restricted, your members are less hardcore and experianced and that makes your coverage less.If your members hold large amounts of roids they will pretty much lose them immediatly. As such bashing doesnt really work, all your doing making yourselves better targets while ultimatly getting little gains because these new roids will no doubt be gone in a few hours, normally with intrest. The XP from the attacks which cant be lost are whats realy vital for these alliances, they have to hope to capture more xp from attacking than the value of the roids and ships lost when your bashed.

And the proof is in the pudding IMHO. We have F-Crew and Orbit, two alliance whom have simerlar members and simerlar recruitment policies but one is top10, the other is 40mill behind and nly just scraping into the top15. And the reason for this, we are playing to our streangths while smaller alliances in the fcrew/orbit mold all too often are preoccupied playing at being 1up and hence are playing to 1ups streangths not their own

[Alki]

Originally Posted by wakey

Either your telling complete and utter lies about the galaxy being "barely t100" or your intel is completly shit.

like i said, the intel is utter bollocks

[Smudge]

This thread still going on?

[Tomkat]

Hey guys I just got a phonecall from wakey's keyboard it said please stop winding him up because it can't take the stress of his godawfully long posts that go on and on and on.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Hey guys I just got a phonecall from wakey's keyboard it said please stop winding him up because it can't take the stress of his godawfully long posts that go on and on and on.

You can have some poss rep for that as it made me laugh

The problem is you cant talk about something like this in 2 lines, without allowing people even more opertunity to twist your words more or misunderstand what your saying. Its bad enough now when I'm able to actually explain what im saying

[Ororo]

Why are you interfereing any way, Orbit does what it likes, and none of your 2 mile long posts are going to change that, you should concentrate on what your alliance is doing rather than that of other alliances....
why Orbit care what you think is beyond me, but you just leave each other alone instead of poking into each others buisness, if you dont like what the other is doing, do something about it instead of complaining at each other...

well thats my moan for today

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Ororo

Why are you interfereing any way, Orbit does what it likes, and none of your 2 mile long posts are going to change that, you should concentrate on what your alliance is doing rather than that of other alliances....
why Orbit care what you think is beyond me, but you just leave each other alone instead of poking into each others buisness, if you dont like what the other is doing, do something about it instead of complaining at each other...

well thats my moan for today

I care what they do because I care for the game. Since I signed up in the early days of round 1 I have made it my goal to make the game a more enjoyable and friendly place for the alliances and players lower down. As such I have spent alot of my time complaining about the top alliances tactics and campaigning for features to help alliances like Orbit. However how can I justify putting more time into doing this when the very people I have been trying to help all this time are undertaking in the same tactics that damage the games ability to attract new players and whom refuse to take advantage of the systems in place to help them. If I just turned a blind eye to it I would be damaging my integrity. Perhaps some people like selling out when it suits them but that just isnt me and i'm not just going to ignore an issue for no reason.

As for your comment about concentrating on what my alliances is doing, well I can easierly do both. F-Crew is performing well while taking in players most alliances would turn down and while Ron7684 might like to make out that F-Crew doesnt practice what I preach he hasnt been able to provide any evidence to back his claims up. His galaxy (although he claimed in PM to me it wasnt actually his galaxy even though he claimed so here) wasnt one we attacked officially and when asked for co-ords of the attackers he provided TWO co-ords, neither was or has ever been F-Crew. As any F-Crew member will tell you they get more 'essays' about playing in a fair manner, which allows them to make max gains and gain a real sense of acheivement and fun than Ive posted on this thread.

[Veedeejem!]

yea, f-crew never rapes a n00b or n00bplanet...
then why did they send 3 waves over my not even 200k value planet last week one might ask?
I hadn't even started playing 2-3 weeks ago, if i was a new guy, i might be seriously damaged and stop playing pa. But yea, when f-crew does it it's probably just collateral damage, but when orbit does it oooooooo, cry fire & murder.
BTW, all 3 attackers had double my value aswell so not much to gain from it right wakey?

go take a piss at some of your own members before you take a piss at orbit

[Ororo]

lol so beacause you have apparently put effort into this you feel it is your right to go spouting of at other alliances and telling them what do... as far as i can see you have no right to do nething of the sort,if Orbit have ideed thrown it back in your face that is there problem, and not yours, so too continue a tirade against Orbit and other alliances is slightly pointless as i doubt any body listens, the simple fact is Orbit and the other top alliances will do as they plz and no amount of whining from you will change that

[Spetzer]

Make war not whine.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Ororo

lol so beacause you have apparently put effort into this you feel it is your right to go spouting of at other alliances and telling them what do... as far as i can see you have no right to do nething of the sort,if Orbit have ideed thrown it back in your face that is there problem, and not yours, so too continue a tirade against Orbit and other alliances is slightly pointless as i doubt any body listens, the simple fact is Orbit and the other top alliances will do as they plz and no amount of whining from you will change that

Mind you this is AD ... Wakey has the right to tell pple what he thinks Orbit should or shouldn't do. Just as I have the right to tell what 1up should or shouldn't do. 1up however has the right to kindly tell me to fk off and mind my own business.

Everyone is free to state his opinion about something. The other party has the right to react on this whether they agree or not. That is what discussions are all about. If this wasn't allowed then what the hell is the point of a forum nway?

[Zo0f]

Wakey: Ha, you suck. You play in a silly way, you could do loads better.

Others: Just because you said that were not going to do it! We will do whatever we want, even if thats suck!

I think Orbit need to realise that wakey does not mean to specifically insult them. He is posting this out of principle and using Orbit as an example to all alliances in your situation. Is this unfair? Perhaps. Does it make his point less valid? Hell no.

In the end Orbit could benefit from this. Ignore all the insults/bickering and look at the meaning. It seems quite obvious Orbit and some of the other smaller alliances are not hitting their prime targets, is that something to be ashamed of? No way, a lot of people in big alliances like 1up/Exi still go out of their way to hit smaller targets. They do this in the belief (as I am sure others do) that it will get them bigger in the longrun. They are mistaken, as is anyone else thinking like that.

I have never intentionally hit people even my size in Planetarion. I have always picked the biggest target possible that I could land on, and taken a friend if it meant we could land on someone bigger.

wakey (as annoying as he can be) is very much correct and is doing this with the best of intentions. Even if you do not like wakey or his attitude, take the meaning from his posts and use it for your own benefit.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Veedeejem!

yea, f-crew never rapes a n00b or n00bplanet...
then why did they send 3 waves over my not even 200k value planet last week one might ask?
I hadn't even started playing 2-3 weeks ago, if i was a new guy, i might be seriously damaged and stop playing pa. But yea, when f-crew does it it's probably just collateral damage, but when orbit does it oooooooo, cry fire & murder.
BTW, all 3 attackers had double my value aswell so not much to gain from it right wakey?

go take a piss at some of your own members before you take a piss at orbit

Unless you have the details on hand still I cant really comment on this but what I will say is its not our policy and we do discourage attacking lower value planets. The problem is its tough to keep a 'big brother' style eye on members when theres 80 of them and some people will slip through the net. However if you think an F-Crew member is bashing do what alot of people have done this round and leave me a message with the details and I will look into it (While most reports turn out to be poor intel on the behalf of the reporter some have been correct and they have been warned, some whom repeatedly broke policy have even been kicked). Its not much use mind you raising he issue so far after the fact because its tough to verify, infact all that can be verified is are the co-ords your claiming attacked actually members or not, so in future please report these things to me as teh quciker you do it the easier I can verify it and take action.

[PoSSeSSeD]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Mind you this is AD ... Wakey has the right to tell pple what he thinks Orbit should or shouldn't do. Just as I have the right to tell what 1up should or shouldn't do. 1up however has the right to kindly tell me to fk off and mind my own business.

Everyone is free to state his opinion about something. The other party has the right to react on this whether they agree or not. That is what discussions are all about. If this wasn't allowed then what the hell is the point of a forum nway?

You've hit the nail on the head.

Wakey, F*ck Off, mind your own business and deal with the evident issues that F-crew have relating to the same matter.


Topic Over

[Ororo]

lol couldnt have said it better myself

[OlaTa]

Originally Posted by PoSSeSSeD

So pls Wakey, feel free to hammer eXilition on the basis that Orbit's intel is correct

Just a question about Orbits intel.
What ally am i this round ... Still reunion? hirr? Anything else you like to add.
Just to inform you, the joke about Reunion=hirr last rnd made me laff 2 weeks after i got PM'd it*

*I'm 90% it was Orbit member who PM'd me last rnd that hirr is hiding under Reunion tag

[Kargool]

hey, xvx had me as ND this round. Wasnt fun at all

[Legator]

hm, i can understand wakey now.

orbit roided my gal (with a mixture of other incs). i can understand that i get shitload incs but why you guys send so many waves on little planets ? for like 50 roids ??

you guys seriously need some help in running your alliance...

[Brug]

This topic is really pissing me off!

First of all, this is a war game, so its normal you have incs. If you don't like that, collect poststamps.

Secondly, we are NOT the only ally attacking with multiple waves. I can assure you other and better alliances do better organized attacks then us.

Your not the only one who gets attacked by bigger planets. Is that a justification? No, it isn't. I just want to say it happens a lot, and i'm sure even some of you guys critisizing us have attacked a smaller planet. We do encourage or members to attack bigger planets and to team up for that. And so you get several incs on 1 LT.

As for picking smal gals, I can assure you we haven't attacked a gal below t100 in weeks. We aim for t20 gals, even did a #9 one (and yes, with multiple and doubled waves). And its only normal a big gal has some smaller planets in it, they have to be attacked aswell. We have small planets in our ally, and they can attack the smaller ones.

As for the waves: we do no more then 3 waves, simply because WE CAN'T COVER more. You see 66 members in Orbit, but look at our average score, it sucks. Maybe we have 20 or so who participate in attacks, so its simply impossible for us to 10-triple-wave a planet.

And Legator, if you're in 1:9: yes we attacked you, 1:9 was ranked 53 at the time I selected it as a target. We planned 3 waves, but not all planets where covered with 3 waves, LT 879.

I know we landed together with some other ally. Look at these JGP's (Orbit coords and fleet names deleted, and defenders aswell):

<REMOVED>

Run those through your intel thing and start a hate campaign against them FFS!

I'm getting sick of this Orbit picking.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Brug

post of crap

.

1. posting coords is bad. you could have copied that into a parser.....
2. i dont mind getting roided that hard (it happened not the first time - just check my history)

my point more is about these other planets in my gal....i mean we got 80 fleets incomings on a #53 ranked gal....

is that normal ? :/ i mean if a planet has 225 roids how much does the third wave expect to get ??