Planetarion Forums

Vermillion · 15 Oct 2003, 18:43

So: assuming taikonaut Yang Liwei is not incinerated on re-entry (which is unlikely, the Soyuz craft the Chinese copied is quite reliable) we now have three spacefaring nations in the world.

In terms of immediate impact, I can see this accelerating the space programs of sevral other nations, India being the main one, and there will be a push for China to sign all the cold-war era bilateral treaties signed by the US and the USSR regarding uses of space, but will there be any other real impact of this significant event?

Evil Skragg · 15 Oct 2003, 18:45

Four Words - Zero Gravity Corner Shops

ChubbyChecker · 15 Oct 2003, 18:49

Manned space flights are a waste of money.

China would have been better off using the money to send me tea (there's lots in China apparently) so that I could sell it to the tea-crazed Brits.

Radical Edward · 15 Oct 2003, 18:58

there will be a space race now. the US won' be happy.

Marilyn Manson · 15 Oct 2003, 18:59

I doubt it will have much political signifgance in real terms, but it is obviously a tremendous prestige boost for China, and is obviously going to provoke some measure of further competition in this field in the future.

Phang · 15 Oct 2003, 19:03

it wouldn't surprise me if it pushes India and the ESA to building their own programs. It also strikes me that if we found ourselves with 5 spacefaring countries there might be a renewed space age and the first man on Mars could - COULD - occur within 10, 15 years. Maybe?

Ragnarak · 15 Oct 2003, 19:05

Maybe will force ESA not to just focus on unmanned flight

ha right

Dante Hicks · 15 Oct 2003, 19:10

The main psychological impact will be if/when a country has a realstic plan to put a permanent outpost on either Mars or the Moon. Then we'll all be faced with "Vote for 500% Tax Increases or the Yella's will Colonise Mars!" campaigns ad nausea.

Weeks · 15 Oct 2003, 19:29

Well for example:

The EU's Galleao project has now got in bed with the Chinese. Which is a competing technology to the US's GPS.
Apprantly we are really competing... but ya'know

wu_trax · 15 Oct 2003, 19:38

i dont see any point in shooting people into space. the us and ussr have already done so. so if the esa ever needs someone in space they could just buy a flight from these countries and use the money for other projects. there is no point in deveoping the same technology 3-4 times, is there?

Tactitus · 15 Oct 2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

there will be a space race now. the US won' be happy.

A "race" presupposes some sort of goal. The relatively easy races (space, orbit, moon) have been won. Putting a man on Mars is certainly doable, but there's not much of a prize for winning--certainly not enough to even begin paying for the cost of doing it.

I expect China will stick to putting a few men in orbit. A manned orbital program isn't too expensive if you happen to be developing ICBMs anyway.

Bloomers III · 15 Oct 2003, 20:04

it's all part of a chinese conspiracy. a conspiracy to do what I do not know, but it is devious and I expect the Illuminati are behind it.

Dace · 15 Oct 2003, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

it wouldn't surprise me if it pushes India and the ESA to building their own programs. It also strikes me that if we found ourselves with 5 spacefaring countries there might be a renewed space age and the first man on Mars could - COULD - occur within 10, 15 years. Maybe?

NOT - EVEN - CLOSE - TO - A - POSSIBILITY!

Try thinking 30 - 40 years.

Nusselt · 15 Oct 2003, 20:23

apparently the rocket is 'based' on russian technology but the chinese have improved on it,

unbelievable isnt it, we close down sangate and the bastards start parachuting in

Proteus · 15 Oct 2003, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nusselt

apparently the rocket is 'based' on russian technology but the chinese have improved on it

Would this be the same as the Russians building military technology based on US technology and "improving" on it during the Cold War?

Nusselt · 15 Oct 2003, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Would this be the same as the Russians building military technology based on US technology and "improving" on it during the Cold War?

yes that would be it, that same technology that was 'improved' on the germans* who probably got the idea for rockets from the...chinese!

* yes i know goddard or whatever developed liquid fueled rockets first but they were pretty pants.

pablissimo · 15 Oct 2003, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloomers III

it's all part of a chinese conspiracy. a conspiracy to do what I do not know, but it is devious and I expect the Illuminati are behind it.

Zero-gravity stir-fry is mere years away.

Vermillion · 15 Oct 2003, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Would this be the same as the Russians building military technology based on US technology and "improving" on it during the Cold War?

Thats an old bit of Cold-War propaganda coming to the surface in an ugly way.

In fact, the US stole almost as much Soviet technology as the Soviet stole American. in the 1960's the USSR was leading the way in a liberal assortment of fields, the one the fell behind on in the late 1970's and early 1980's (and never really caught up) was computers. However the Soviet space capsule was entirely domestic (not surprising as they got a man in space before the US did...) and as for the rockets, frankly both nations used a combination of domestic technology and stolen German technology.

CACR blades for helicopters, terminal pop-up missiles, reactive armour, single eye HUD, these, off the top of my head, are just a couple of the modern military inventions pioneered by the USSR, and taken by the west...

Back on topic, the capsule is a heavily modified Soyuz space vehicle, and I am not sure how 'improved' it is, likely just modified to fit their needs.

Proteus · 15 Oct 2003, 20:41

But I like Cold War propaganda.

pablissimo · 15 Oct 2003, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

But I like Cold War propaganda.

History Channel ++

wu_trax · 15 Oct 2003, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

Thats an old bit of Cold-War propaganda coming to the surface in an ugly way.
Back on topic, the capsule is a heavily modified Soyuz space vehicle, and I am not sure how 'improved' it is, likely just modified to fit their needs.

they changed quite a lot. they have about as much in common as the russian mir and the iss (or so i was told i another forum)

No Dachi · 15 Oct 2003, 21:50

In the long term I think the 'Shenzhou' or whatever they're calling it might promote a little bit of rivalry between Russia and China for low budget launch jobs requiring some kind of human presence (not that I know there are any). In the short term it's a gigantic propaganda boost for China.

cnaw · 15 Oct 2003, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

Back on topic, the capsule is a heavily modified Soyuz space vehicle, and I am not sure how 'improved' it is, likely just modified to fit their needs.

i belive its modified in that if they stick it on the end of one of their larger rockets, they can send it around the moon with no problems. (note: not on the moon. ) but don't quote me on that

Super · 15 Oct 2003, 23:08

If Command & Conquer has taught us anything, the Chinese will put satellites in space to fire big blue light at us. Be afraid.

Intrepid00 · 15 Oct 2003, 23:26

Unless China is smart enough to beat us to Mars any future space race would be waste on China's part to get to the moon because the US was already there and there wasn't crap.

A lot was learned though, did you know the apollo missions gave birth to the first hand held calculators? Sure it would take 10 secs to 30 secs to do a math problem but it was usually faster then doing it by hand and more accurate.

Vaio · 15 Oct 2003, 23:28

I think the EU should try and get a frenchman into space. If successful they can send the rest of the buggers up as well

Vaio

Intrepid00 · 15 Oct 2003, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

I think the EU should try and get a frenchman into space. If successful they can send the rest of the buggers up as well

Vaio

Cause in space, no one can smell your BO.

pablissimo · 15 Oct 2003, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super

If Command & Conquer has taught us anything, the Chinese will put satellites in space to fire big blue light at us. Be afraid.

That's the Americans.

Cmdr_Cyrax · 15 Oct 2003, 23:50

2-1 to the filthy commies.

I hear TPE is constructing a secret launch site too.

pablissimo · 15 Oct 2003, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmdr_Cyrax

2-1 to the filthy commies.

I hear TPE is constructing a secret launch site too.

Last I heard the ESA had launched rockets.

2-2 by my count. PENALTIES!

Cmdr_Cyrax · 15 Oct 2003, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablissimo

Last I heard the ESA had launched rockets.

2-2 by my count. PENALTIES!

They have no plans for manned missions tho.

(Yes I do know manned missions are pointless, i was being ironic)

pablissimo · 16 Oct 2003, 00:01

Didn't know we were talking about manned ones.

Though that would make infinitely more sense. What with them sending a ma... **** it.

Weeks · 16 Oct 2003, 00:19

I can't wait to find out what the Mars probe finds out when that ESA jobby gets to mars.
Purely because the gripping mechanism was made by a Chinese dentist in Leicester

Intrepid00 · 16 Oct 2003, 00:24

Its going to find Oxid Iron and rocks. Lots and Lots of rocks.

IncubusGod · 16 Oct 2003, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Its going to find Oxid Iron and rocks. Lots and Lots of rocks.

And maybe the underware I left drying on the line there in 1978...I mean...erm...I've said too much

JonnyBGood · 16 Oct 2003, 02:14

I think people are underestimating what this means to china culturally speaking. Since 1422 China has not been an expansionist nation. When they were they were hands down the most advanced, the richest and the largest (in terms of population and it's related affects) state in the world.

Currently they have the second largest GNP in the world, with the fastest rate of growth in the top 20 nations. If China turned decisively expansionist the results would be phenomenal. People often forget that many chinese think of themselves as the middle kingdom. This is not a term which implies mediocrity but rather one that asserts that they are the centre of the world (culturally speaking it's analogous to the US calling on memories of it's greatness in either the late 19th century or after WWII, or Britain at the height of the British empire. There are still many who strongly believe in the merits of those days and those who would follow them.

Technologically this means relatively little. In terms of it's impact on the chinese psyche it's difficult to even guess as what we shall see develop out of this in the years to come.

Radical Edward · 16 Oct 2003, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactitus

A "race" presupposes some sort of goal. The relatively easy races (space, orbit, moon) have been won. Putting a man on Mars is certainly doable, but there's not much of a prize for winning--certainly not enough to even begin paying for the cost of doing it.

I expect China will stick to putting a few men in orbit. A manned orbital program isn't too expensive if you happen to be developing ICBMs anyway.

well if they go for a permanent lunar outpost, that would be more interesting. then there would be a race.